On 2/20/07, Brian Suda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 2/20/07, Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is anyone against changing 'date-published' to 'date'?
--- the questions is what is the semantics of 'date'? if you create
'date' and use it the date published/updated/copyrighted/etc the
On Mar 28, 2007, at 9:47 AM, Henri Sivonen wrote:
On Mar 23, 2007, at 14:22, Paul Wilkins wrote:
Currently the formatted names are accepted in the following formats
given-name (space) family-name
family-name (comma) given-name
family-name (comma) given-name-first-initial
family-name (space) gi
aoming suggests both 'http' and 'mailto' are valid URI schemes
in RFC4395. Allowing a UID this flexibility would mean a UID could
serve as a module that hCard and hCalendar (and perhaps an hCite and
others) reference.
//Ed
[1] http://microformats.org/wiki/uid-brainst
So I've been saying we need for hCite to correctly model the
relational character of bibliographic data so that we keep a foucsed
core, but also leave flexiblity.
The more I think of this, the more I think this is a general issue.
For example, say I'm using hCal (which I've
On 1/17/07, Joe Andrieu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Michael McCracken wrote:
> On 1/17/07, Joe Andrieu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Actually, date accessed has at least three more examples:
> > umich
> > ning
> > Google
> >
> > However, they use "retrieved" rather than accessed,
> although
I believe it was agreed to use the also stalled hCite instead.
-Breton
On 15/05/2007, at 7:03 PM, Ottevanger, Jeremy wrote:
Dear all,
Raising my head above what I hope is the correct parapet to ask, does
anyone know if Tim Gambell, who was seemingly leading work on the
proposed work-of-art
This seems to have been buried - so again, to anyone interested in hCite:
I want to define a new field "URL" to denote an http URL that points
to the location of a copy of the cited work.
URIs that encode an identifier of the work can be combined with this
field, but do not need
s (augmenting visible content with structured data).
RDFa includes namespacing, the lack of which is already a problem in
microformats (witness hCite and the serious awkwardness that title
will be indicate using fn), and which will grow over time as more and
more people want to mark up their co
On 7/30/06 1:53 AM, "Simon Cozens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello folks; please don't shoot, I'm new here.
Hi Simon and welcome to the list!
> I've noticed on the wiki that
> there's a relatively long discussion about citation formats, tending
quot;reference" for "class" attribute
> or maybe "source"
The precise names for the properties are still very much under discussion.
See citation-brainstorming for current thoughts on this.
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming
See also nami
Based on the existence of a URL in the examples listed at the end of
this email, I propose modifying the working straw format at
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#Brian.27s_Straw_format
to include a URL field, denoting the URL to a copy of the work
available online (often a PDF
l for a few reasons:
* It does not require in-depth knowledge of hCard or vCard
* Extraordinarily simple markup
* Provides a smaller barrier-to-entry for microformats that
require hCard
Once I started working with compound microformats (hresume, hreview,
hatom, hcite) I began to find a
tside that process
2. COinS hides its data in an attribute -- ufs don't like hidden data
3. I think there's a potential conflict, eventually, between hCite and
COinS, but let's burn that bridge when we get to it.
That being said, COinS have merit with or without the microformat
. from.
> Perhaps instead of wheel reinvention, we should look to one of these
> well-used citation formats.
> Is there any reason why neither BibTex nor EndNote fields are listed
> in the citation-examples
> page of the wiki?
That's what the citation-formats page is for. Pre-e
Welcome Michael!
On 2/10/06 7:25 PM, "Michael McCracken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, I just found the recent conversations about a citation microformat, and
> saw that the discussion slowed down around the same time someone asked about
> what problem we're
On 5/4/06 7:28 PM, "Brian Suda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> CITE: Contains a citation or a reference to other sources.
>
> That needs further discussion on when and where to use that element.
> One of the objectives of the citation microformat is to be able to use
&
Tantek ?elik:
> http://microformats.org/wiki/process
> Second, the folks working on the citation microformat to date have done *a
> lot* of work along the lines of the process which I recommend you read to
> understand the current state of progress:
>
> http://microformats
>- Original Message
>From: Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>I agree, 'citation' is clearer - can we vote on this?
+ 1 for citation
~ Tim
tjameswhite.com'>http://w
On 3/28/06, Bruce D'Arcus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have to disagree on the usefulness of the OpenURL stuff in this context.Can you explain this? w/r/t HTML, I find OpenURL the /most/ useful in this context, with this context being web content and OpenURL being a means to link a cit
Hi Emir,
Are there similar initiatives I'm not aware of?
It sounds like this might be a good addition to the citation
microformat effort [1] and related pages. [2] I think the majority of
the discussion/efffort for the citation has focused on text
documents, but a case could cert
gical embedded citation elements
citation
url
film-number
sheet-number
page-number
frame-number
call-number
book-number
image-number
record-number
batch-number
serial-number
date-recorded
certainty
comment
source
url
On 3/30/06, Bruce D'Arcus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 3/30/06, Tim White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Although, to clarify, your distinction above is really between an
> in-text citation, and a full bibliographic reference.
Um... I just see it as a note p
FYI...
Hardy, R., Oppenheim, C., Brody, T. and Hitchcock, S. (2005) Open Access
Citation Information.
http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/11536/
A primary objective of this research is to identify a framework for
universal citation services for open access (OA) materials, an ideal
structure for
On Feb 10, 2006, at 7:25 PM, Michael McCracken wrote:
Hi, I just found the recent conversations about a citation
microformat, and saw that the discussion slowed down around the
same time someone asked about what problem we're solving. I'd like
to add my two cents:
I have a part
page that
>>> summarised the previous discussion and had some examples that could
>>> be a basis for further progress. Here's the page - feel free to edit,
>>> particular with extending the examples to cover other reference
>>> types:
>>>
>
ould seem to be in order. Is this a possible extension/application
for hCite? At the very least the semantics would be similar.
* Authorship (hCard), licence details (@rel="licence"? May be scope issues)
-Ciaran
[1] http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1766.txt
_
As you can see from the Wiki, there is ALOT of information up there.
We are trying to plan an IRC meet-up this sunday to discuss many of
the issues at large and keep this format moving forward.
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-irc-meetup
-brian
On 4/7/06, John Vilburn <[EMAIL PROTEC
ew wiki page that
summarised the previous discussion and had some examples that could
be a basis for further progress. Here's the page - feel free to
edit,
particular with extending the examples to cover other reference
types:
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-recommendation
Alf, than
--- "C. Hudley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 3/30/06, Bruce D'Arcus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 3/30/06, Tim White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Although, to clarify, your distinction above is really between an
> > in-tex
Cards we can use those
properties in both realms (vCard and Citation). Here is a simple
example:
Brian Suda
Author
XYZ Publishing House
Publisher
...
The question i am asking myself, is "Does role make sense outside of
the citation format?" "If i wer
I am new to this list and new to microformats. I am working with another
group that is looking for ways to embed genealogical citations on web pages.
You can find the info on this effort at http://eatslikeahuman.blogspot.com/.
We have explored a variety of citation efforts. Microformats appear
Hi Greg,Thanks for the heads up on that one. I confused that part of last night's rough schema. In fact, the Source category is for a citation about where the information came from (as you recommend), and the Location category is intended for information about where the work of art is physi
A given article citation is part of a journal (which is just another
citation). The problem is that they would share ALOT of the same info
(PubDate, Publisher, etc) It would be difficult to publish an article
in a journal by two different publishers? (or i am off the mark here?)
So i'm not
For those who don't know, Ryan King and myself will be presenting a
half-day tutorial at XTECH[1] one of my personal goals is to do some
citation microformats demos/discussions, so i am more than happy to try
and kick-start the citation discussion again.
I'll read over the edits made t
Aloha,
Interesting that alternates was brainstormed in terms of hItem as
mentioned previously in the thread, but also could and perhaps should
initially apply to citation. If I understand the citation discussion
at http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-irc-notes-2006-04-09#Summary
an alternate
Ryan Cannon wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>I've actually been looking at this problem from another angle, and
>considered submitting a microformat about it. What we're really looking
>for is not solely citation data (such as ISBN), but bibliographic
>information. Perhaps a go
Up until now, we've had some confusion on the wiki between
'citations' and a conversation about a potential microformat called
'citeRel.' I've moved everything regarding citations (in the
bibliographic sense) to citation-* and stuff regarding citeRel to
dist
This is a "quick" recap, point-by-point of the issues brought-up with
the Straw proposal II.
"I particularly like the use of hCard in this context (although I
think it's critical that we use more granular n attributes -- there
are just too many ways to mark up a citation).
I have started a page on the Wiki to gather people to the Citation IRC
Meet-up, please put a day/time (and your timezone), and you name. From
that we can see which evening/weekend to meetup and get this properly
underway.
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-irc-meetup
Thanks,
-brian
--
brian
rence managers RIS files contain citation
data about articles, including information such
as authors, article title, journal name, publication date and volume number.
Perhaps something from RIS can applied to a citation microformat.
There is a demo of a product called Reference
Manage
In short, most of these questions/suppositions are answered/discussed the
following wiki pages.
http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats
http://microformats.org/wiki/distributed-conversation
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation
On 2/14/06 6:43 AM, "David Osolkowski" <[EM
Tim,Have you considered adding a parameter or two indicating who created the citation. Citations in the paper world (e.g., footnotes, endnotes) are locked into the document they exit. Citations in the digital world can float freely -- that's the point of microformats. Hence, it makes sen
Andy Mabbett wrote:
> Is "OpenURL COinS" <http://ocoins.info/> a microformat? How widely used
> is it? are there any alternative/ competing formats?
>
OpenURL COinS is NOT a microformat, all of the data is hidden way in a
query string.
We have started an effort to crea
On 6/8/07 2:21 AM, "Toby A Inkster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ted Drake wrote:
>
>> Could the Dublin core be converted into a microformat.
>
In short no, however, it could be converted to POSH.
Dublin Core is one of many citation-like previous formats,
I can't speak for what Tim Gambell's requirements or intentions are, but for my requirements, as long as the citation format includes the minimum common properties in the examples, the citation format would be fine. at the moment this seems to be:Photo (more accurately referred to as &#
I think you have pointed out one of the great things about Microformats.
Each can be used independently of each other.
If you want rel="nofollow" you are more than welcome to use that on ANY
microformat, it doesn't need to be baked into the citation.
You could so someth
Hi Ryan,
On 12/20/05 12:56 PM, "Ryan Cannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I've actually been looking at this problem from another angle, and
> considered submitting a microformat about it. What we're really
> looking for is not
citation microformat. Does this
seem like a good idea?
To address a few of the questions that have come up on the list:
Why not just add to or merge with citation? Though -- as Ryan Cannon
and Bruce D'Arcus point out -- works of art on websites are
conceptually similar to book citatio
As an interest in the citation microformat and title design pattern I
mentioned previously[1], I've done a little research to see how
publishers are currently marking up book titles.
The results have been added to the citation examples page as Citation
Mark up in the Wild[2]
These are j
[1] http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-formats
[2] http://microformats.org/wiki/how-to-play
I was considering an addition to [1], but according to guideline #2
at [2], I thought I should check with this list first.
I would like to add another citation format: DDMS.
DDMS is the Department
at could
>>>>> be a basis for further progress. Here's the page - feel free to
>>>>> edit,
>>>>> particular with extending the examples to cover other reference
>>>>> types:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://microformats
th 'http' and 'mailto' are valid URI schemes
> in RFC4395. Allowing a UID this flexibility would mean a UID could
> serve as a module that hCard and hCalendar (and perhaps an hCite and
> others) reference.
Agreed.
> //Ed
>
> [1] http://microformats.org/wiki/uid-
On 8/30/06, Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[... snip ...]
I'm not convinced that a formalized Dublin Core microformat class set
is necessary for a good citation microformat, and I do think it'd be a
distraction to getting the main goal completed.
A reasonable
Hi, I can't tell from the ending of the most recent trail of emails
about the citation uf whether a consensus was reached about encoding
page values and ranges, or if everyone just got tired after 51 emails.
There was some evidence of research that I think ought to be put on
the cit
On Mar 29, 2006, at 1:53 PM, Alf Eaton wrote:
I just think it would be hard for a processor to process a
microformatted citation if it didn't know what type it was and thus
which elements to look for. If looking for a class="type" inside
the citation and getting the informa
OK:
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-examples#Wikipedia
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-examples-markup#Wikipedia_Examples
More examples can probably stand to be added. I'm sure there's one of
every kind of reference in there somewhere.
I had a problem finding a
I'd like to get some more momentum going behind the citation process...
I started looking into making a straw proposal of a format, but I
wanted to be sure I kept the previous brainstorming in mind, so I read
back through the wiki pages and as I went, I've been trying some
cleanup on th
On Sun, 30 Jul 2006, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
If the bib format was the overwhelmingly dominant bibliographic/citation
format, it could be that simple. But it is not. It is one of many formats
in wide use.
Correct, and it frustrates me to no end whenever some BibTeX user pops
up and says
as
the perfect way to frame the discussion of bibliographies and
citation on the Internet. Admittedly, I've been a little gun-shy
being new to the game. I've contributed to the wiki examples and
questions a little bit, and was wondering about some borderline cases
we might want t
--- Tantek �elik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2/10/06 7:25 PM, "Michael McCracken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi, I just found the recent conversations about a citation
> microformat, and
> > saw that the discussion slowed down aroun
Hi List,
I've been trying to catch up on the citation microformat discussion.
Very good stuff!
It seems like there would some use for the rel-nofollow microformat
(or some equivalent) to it in the citation microformat, so that
citations can better express how much weight or authori
On 12/9/06, David Janes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was just looking at a discussion about "citation" and came across
this example.
--- do you have a URL where you found this example?
Questions:
1. Is citation really considering using "title" for the title of
I think this is yet another issue tied to a Citation microformat.
When you are adding an image or description of a work of art on a web
site, you are more often than not citing an actual document hanging
in a museum somewhere else in the world. This shares everything with
a citation
hough I
>can't remember which one takes which position in this case.
The Oxford English Dictionary (usually taken as the definitive reference
for UK English) gives the noun 'Cite' as a US variant of "citation",
first noted in 1957.
I can't give a URL, as
In our earlier straw proposal <http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-
irc-notes-2006-04-09#Straw_Proposals>, the metadata for the container
of the article was in a class="container" block, whereas in the
current straw proposal <http://microformats.org/wiki/citat
I think microformat citations are a great idea. The good news is the hard
work has already been done for us.
The .bib citation format is a flexible, open, and widely used bibliographic
format. It is the LaTeX reference managaer, but it is widely used and
adopted by many reference-management
On 12/20/05, Benjamin Carlyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> MARC is typically used for cataloging rather than citation. It is the
> electronic equivalent to a paper card catalogue in your local library.
> Cataloging and citation are targeted at slightly different audiences.
> Cit
gt; particular with extending the examples to cover other reference types:
>
> http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-recommendation
Alf, thanks very much for writing this up.
As these are notes from a discussion, and I'd like to avoid the confusion
with some of the connotations of &q
On Oct 18, 2006, at 6:38 AM, brian suda wrote:
If you want rel="nofollow" you are more than welcome to use that on ANY
microformat, it doesn't need to be baked into the citation.
You could so something like:
http://en.wikipedia.com/wiki/microformats"; rel="vote-f
On Mar 29, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Michael McCracken wrote:
In my opinion, converting losslessly is not the aim. Given a
microformatted citation, I should be able to take one more step and
find enough information to populate a full format, but I don't think
embedding a full bibliograhpic record
Book of Ryan
Ryan Cannon
I tend to avoid "citation" because of it has a a tendency to confuse
people accross western languages. For example, citation is in French
a quote (extract of a book) and a citation (reference for author).
There are a lot of Bibliography For
On 28 Mar 2006, at 17:27, Michael McCracken wrote:
Hi, so since we've got a large number of examples on the examples
page, I think it's time to float an initial version of a citation
microformat.
I've put a suggestion up on the wiki at
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-br
cally grabbing citation information.
I've put the example you sent along on the wiki here:
http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples#EPrints.org
with a brief analysis and a link to the full markup.
-mike
On 8/22/06, Ben O'Neill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm not sure
in this case the citation)
Surely 1 is the most logical? The fact that the hcard title is NOT in
the parent citation block would surely mean that I could make the
sensible assumption that the title attribute for the hcard is NOT the
same as the title attribute of the citation. It would be up to
but not the
>> parent uF (in this case the citation)
>
>Surely 1 is the most logical?
Not necessarily
>The fact that the hcard title is NOT in
>the parent citation block would surely mean that I could make the
>sensible assumption that the title attribute for the hcar
I am still a little confused as to why you wouldn't just use OpenURL to
identify all of these metadata elements, and also give you the
possibility of finding the actual object the citation is referring to.
This wheel has already been invented.
-Ross.
brian suda wrote:
Over the week
Thanks for the example, there are a few issues that i can see.
#1, you have a class="title" for "The Best of Foo Foo", title inside a
vcard means "job-title" so that would be pulled incorrectly. Next, you
have "singleauth" both the hCite and hAtom use &
Hi, I just found the recent conversations about a citation microformat, and saw that the discussion slowed down around the same time someone asked about what problem we're solving. I'd like to add my two cents:I have a particular use case in mind: I would like to have my publications
On 4/7/06, John Vilburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For those of you unfamiliar with the genealogical world, let me add a few
> definitions for some of the terms used above. I am not proposing that
> citation microformats adopt any of these terms. I believe that the citatio
On 8/16/06, Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
OK:
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-examples#Wikipedia
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-examples-markup#Wikipedia_Examples
Good job; thanks for that. I had put a couple examples there earlier,
but this is better!
On 8/17/06, Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * dc:creator (OK, maybe a little problematic in different ways, but
> widely understood and useful, if too broad for most citation needs)
I like 'author' and 'editor' better than 'creator' and
Actually, there is currently a container in one of the examples - I
was looking at the book example which obviously doesn't have one.
alf.
On 08 Dec 2006, at 17:49, Alf Eaton wrote:
In our earlier straw proposal <http://microformats.org/wiki/
citation-irc-notes-2006-04-09#Straw_P
On Dec 8, 2007 2:22 AM, Jeremy Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> However, I don't think that every use of the CITE element *requires*
> an accompanying citation (using Q or BLOQCKQUOTE). I think that Scott
> is write when he says that context is the key criteria:
The CITE ele
On Aug 16, 2006, at 10:54 AM, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
BTW, I tihnk the best real world example out there is Wikipedia.
Do we have wikipedia's citation style documented? Care to take a stab?
//Ed
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mi
Andy Mabbett wrote:
>> What about:
>> http://www.example.com/wibble/71194301X";>
>> which could be a URL on the same site as the citation,
>> or on a trusted bibliographic website.
Agreed, but is there the latter?
-Mike Schinkel
http://
n this
> context, with this context being web content and OpenURL being a means to
> link a citation to an appropriate copy/service.
>
> In fact, I think if you use the 80/20 rule, your majority of users would be
> /much/ happier finding fulltext for a given citation than the ability to
enURL, etc.
We are NOT building library/scholarly citation records
(in my opinion)
Those already exist and, as has been shown on the list, are very
complicated. They also serve a specialized audience and I don't think
reflect the 80/20 of general users.
The format should be as simple as pos
ntax--but it is still relatively complicated, largely because it's
> an outgrowth of MARC itself.
MARC is typically used for cataloging rather than citation. It is the
electronic equivalent to a paper card catalogue in your local library.
Cataloging and citation are targeted at slightly differen
On 1/18/06, Ryan Cannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> John Gruber uses Footnote citations on his daringfireball.net, which
> would probably make a good example of citation markup in the wild:
Also spotted in the wild on Alex King's website:
http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/01/2
On 3/28/06, Michael McCracken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, so since we've got a large number of examples on the examples
> page, I think it's time to float an initial version of a citation
> microformat.
I think this is a good start. I'd vote for volume and
x27;s the page - feel free to edit,
particular with extending the examples to cover other reference
types:
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-recommendation
Alf, thanks very much for writing this up.
As these are notes from a discussion, and I'd like to avoid the
confusion
with s
Over the weekend i started to make some serious headway on the citation
microformat. I did run into several properties that
could benefit from some of the microformat schemes we have already
developed. For example, KEYWORDS, SUBJECTS, are both normally a series
of terms that identify the reference
> The pedant in me says that "cite" is a verb and not really
> appropriate to label something that is a noun.
IIRC, this is a usage difference between en-US and en-GB, though I can't
remember which one takes which position in this case.
Ted
--
Edward O'Connor
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ense petit plac
Brian,
Great work. I'm excited to see so much progress, as hCitation is one of the
most critical uFs in my current project.
Based on what you've done, I have a process question.
I, and others, have mentioned the need for a DateAccessed field, which is
required by several citation stan
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-recommendation
alf.
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In message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, David
Janes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>parsing within a URI/URL has a precident in rel-tag
What about:
http://www.example.com/wibble/71194301X";>
which could be a URL on the same site as the citation, or on a trusted
bibliographic web
I think this is a great idea.
In the context of my straw proposal, I imagine this working in a way
similar to the "item" property of hReview - we require that there be
something labeled as the item the citation refers to - at its
simplest, it can be the title, but it could also be an en
easily get bogged down in months of committee
>> work (http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-formats) so I think it's probably
>> better to have something simple working and build on it when required.
>
> Well, indeed, but wouldn't defining a new standard just contrib
o meant "why not do the /same/ for citations...
Goodness knows what happened to my typing, this morning...
>If you want to be symmetric with
>http://microformats.org/wiki/hReview#Field_details rel="license" in a
>citation would be saying that the contents of the citation is
Paul Wilkins wrote:
It remains to be asked then, where is the citation?
The contents of the CITE element contains the object being cited, so
where is the subject?
You cannot have a citation without a subject.
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!
But that's no
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