Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-07-09 Thread Siju George
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 2:45 AM, Theo de Raadt dera...@cvs.openbsd.org wrote: They started the fork because they got kicked out because one developer (Marco) hired 5 other developers for his startup company, and attempted to hire around 10 other developers in a sneaky and underhanded way.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-07-09 Thread Tomas Bodzar
On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Siju George sgeorge@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 2:45 AM, Theo de Raadt dera...@cvs.openbsd.org wrote: They started the fork because they got kicked out because one developer (Marco) hired 5 other developers for his startup company, and

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-07-09 Thread Tomas Bodzar
On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Siju George sgeorge@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 2:45 AM, Theo de Raadt dera...@cvs.openbsd.org wrote: They started the fork because they got kicked out because one developer (Marco) hired 5 other developers for his startup company, and

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-24 Thread Anonymous Remailer (austria)
Marc Espie wrote: W. Richard Stevens was THE best unix books author *ever*, bar none. He's on a par with such CS giants as Don Knuth, writing-wise. Advanced Unix programming is *the* best book to understand how to write Unix code, PERIOD. Are you saying the 1992 edition is still

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-24 Thread Eugene Yunak
On Sunday, 24 June 2012, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: Marc Espie wrote: W. Richard Stevens was THE best unix books author *ever*, bar none. He's on a par with such CS giants as Don Knuth, writing-wise. Advanced Unix programming is *the* best book to understand how to write

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-24 Thread Otto Moerbeek
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 02:48:04PM +0200, Anonymous Remailer (austria) wrote: Marc Espie wrote: W. Richard Stevens was THE best unix books author *ever*, bar none. He's on a par with such CS giants as Don Knuth, writing-wise. Advanced Unix programming is *the* best book to

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-23 Thread Nicolas Legrand
Hey, On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 03:04:39PM +0200, Marc Espie wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 02:55:02PM +0200, Gilles Chehade wrote: That's an implementation detail :-p Someone who really wants to understand things will look at the man pages and try to understand, someone who doesn't give a

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Janne Johansson
2012/6/21 Miod Vallat m...@online.fr: There's always the possibility to split OpenBSD, `outsourcing' the platforms which do not matter except to crazy nutcases to `RusticBSD'. Oh, perhaps resurrect amiga-m68k on RusticBSD then. =) --  To our sweethearts and wives.  May they never meet. -- 19th

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Marc Espie
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 05:22:08PM +0200, Gilles Chehade wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:09:47PM -0300, Christiano F. Haesbaert wrote: Tedu's suggestion is the best one in my IMHO, implement a webserver. I would try to do the following: - Read KR - Join ##c on freenode, they can help

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Marc Espie
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 07:30:59PM +, Miod Vallat wrote: I do hope they succeed on that matter at least. If they can't even get amd64/i386/arm working with LLVM, then it's a rough road ahead for us when we also have to worry about sparc, sh, mips, hppa, vax, and m88k too. There's

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 01:20:09PM +0200, Marc Espie wrote: Actually, before a webserver, I'd recommend learning how to write a shell as it will have you deal with lots of concepts you would not see otherwise ... then network programming :-p Just because you suffered thru a fucked-up

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Sevan / Venture37
On 22 Jun 2012, at 12:57 PM, Gilles Chehade gil...@poolp.org wrote: Your opinion is pointless, you actually *like* perl ;-) I've heard rumours that there are members of the team who are left handed use the dvorak layout *tut* :) Sevan

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Marc Espie
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 01:57:10PM +0200, Gilles Chehade wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 01:20:09PM +0200, Marc Espie wrote: Actually, before a webserver, I'd recommend learning how to write a shell as it will have you deal with lots of concepts you would not see otherwise ... then

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 02:33:13PM +0200, Marc Espie wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 01:57:10PM +0200, Gilles Chehade wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 01:20:09PM +0200, Marc Espie wrote: Actually, before a webserver, I'd recommend learning how to write a shell as it will have you

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Eric Furman
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012, at 01:57 PM, Gilles Chehade wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 01:20:09PM +0200, Marc Espie wrote: Actually, before a webserver, I'd recommend learning how to write a shell as it will have you deal with lots of concepts you would not see otherwise ... then network

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:57:21AM -0400, Eric Furman wrote: [...] You... like... perl. Which explains why you'd think writing a kernel is simpler than a shell, and why writing a shell is more complex than network programming :-) So what is wrong with perl?? It is nearly a

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Marc Espie
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 02:55:02PM +0200, Gilles Chehade wrote: That's an implementation detail :-p Someone who really wants to understand things will look at the man pages and try to understand, someone who doesn't give a damn about getting things done right will produce crap with or

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Marc Espie
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 08:57:21AM -0400, Eric Furman wrote: So what is wrong with perl?? It is nearly a standard in the UNIX Admin world. Nothing is wrong with perl :) Well, perl is a post-modern baroque language. Which means that it is possible to write code the way you want to write it.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread john slee
On 22 June 2012 22:55, Gilles Chehade gil...@poolp.org wrote: Someone who really wants to understand things will look at the man pages and try to understand, someone who doesn't give a damn about getting things done right will produce crap with or without proper courses ... hear = forget see

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Franco Fichtner
On Jun 22, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Marc Espie wrote: A shell is one of the most complicated pieces of C code to get right, between the fucked-up parser, the lazy evaluation, the arcane shit you have to do to various file descriptors, and the signal handling. Among other things. That's

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Wayne Oliver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2012/06/22 3:14 PM, Marc Espie wrote: Oh, yeah, and the hipsters types swear by ruby, which is just tweaked perl. Love that line! Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJP5HKfAAoJENzqTnPMiNZl/6MH/014Ia96FQbvZOsfcRadck0P

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Diana Eichert
On Fri, 22 Jun 2012, Marc Espie wrote: SNIP A shell is one of the most complicated pieces of C code to get right, between the fucked-up parser, the lazy evaluation, the arcane shit you have to do to various file descriptors, and the signal handling. Among other things. Heck, write your own

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Diana Eichert
morons if you can't write forth code you should stay home. diana Past hissy-fits are not a predictor of future hissy-fits. Nick Holland(06 Dec 2005)

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Mic J
Who is J.R. Steven?

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Darrin Chandler
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 07:35:06AM -0600, Diana Eichert wrote: morons if you can't write forth code you should stay home. diana WORD -- http://code.phxbsd.com/

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread russell
On 06/22/2012 06:35 AM, Diana Eichert wrote: morons if you can't write forth code you should stay home. diana I Love me my hand crafted postscripts... Does that count?

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Otto Moerbeek
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 04:02:51PM +0200, Mic J wrote: Who is J.R. Steven? I think Marc intended to mention W. Richard Stevens. See http://www.kohala.com -Otto

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Marc Espie
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 12:07:43AM -0700, russell wrote: On 06/22/2012 06:35 AM, Diana Eichert wrote: morons if you can't write forth code you should stay home. diana I Love me my hand crafted postscripts... Does that count? Not really, PostScript is a mix between forth and lisp.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread bofh
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Mic J michael.cogn...@gmail.com wrote: Who is J.R. Steven? Wasn't J.R.R. Stevens the one who wrote about trolls on the Internet Superhighway? -- http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk This officer's men seem to follow

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Mic J
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Otto Moerbeek o...@drijf.net wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 04:02:51PM +0200, Mic J wrote: Who is J.R. Steven? I think Marc intended to mention W. Richard Stevens. See http://www.kohala.com        -Otto That what i thought, no JR stevens came up in my

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Marc Espie
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 04:22:57PM +0200, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 04:02:51PM +0200, Mic J wrote: Who is J.R. Steven? I think Marc intended to mention W. Richard Stevens. See http://www.kohala.com yep, of course. Deeply sorry to have mangled his name. W. Richard

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 05:02:22PM +0200, Marc Espie wrote: W. Richard Stevens was THE best unix books author *ever*, bar none. He's on a par with such CS giants as Don Knuth, writing-wise. Advanced Unix programming is *the* best book to understand how to write Unix code, PERIOD. That

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Johan Beisser
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 5:57 AM, Eric Furman ericfur...@fastmail.net wrote: So what is wrong with perl?? It is nearly a standard in the UNIX Admin world. It's a terrible language, and you should feel terrible for using it.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Miod Vallat
There's always the possibility to split OpenBSD, `outsourcing' the platforms which do not matter except to crazy nutcases to `RusticBSD'. I would prefer the crazy nutcases apply their considerable knowledge to stuff that still matters. Would they still be nutcases if they'd perform

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Kenneth R Westerback
On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 07:35:06AM -0600, Diana Eichert wrote: morons if you can't write forth code you should stay home. diana Past hissy-fits are not a predictor of future hissy-fits. Nick Holland(06 Dec 2005) I thought forth code was planted and grown like a bonsai tree.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-22 Thread Rod Whitworth
On Fri, 22 Jun 2012 17:16:45 +0200, Gilles Chehade wrote: That and Linux for dummies too ! That reminds me - a friend had a whole bunch of little sticky labels printed. He would stick them on the front cover of $subject For Dummies books in the bookstore. They fitted between the $subject line

Re[2]: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Mo Libden
Sat, 16 Jun 2012 15:15:05 -0600 (MDT) от Theo de Raadt dera...@cvs.openbsd.org: They started the fork because they got kicked out because one developer (Marco) hired 5 other developers for his startup company, and attempted to hire around 10 other developers in a sneaky and underhanded way.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Kenneth R Westerback
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 09:16:24PM +0200, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:39:44AM -0500, John wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 08:28:22AM +0530, Jay Patel wrote: Hi all users, I am users too. Thanks cody. I am learning C too. from C primus plus any thoughts from

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Paul Irofti
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 08:26:31AM -0400, Kenneth R Westerback wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 09:16:24PM +0200, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:39:44AM -0500, John wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 08:28:22AM +0530, Jay Patel wrote: Hi all users, I am users too.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Jan Stary
On Jun 21 16:35:16, Paul Irofti wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 08:26:31AM -0400, Kenneth R Westerback wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 09:16:24PM +0200, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:39:44AM -0500, John wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 08:28:22AM +0530, Jay Patel wrote:

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Brian Hechinger
On 6/21/2012 9:56 AM, Jan Stary wrote: On Jun 21 16:35:16, Paul Irofti wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 08:26:31AM -0400, Kenneth R Westerback wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 09:16:24PM +0200, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:39:44AM -0500, John wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 04:35:16PM +0300, Paul Irofti wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 08:26:31AM -0400, Kenneth R Westerback wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 09:16:24PM +0200, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:39:44AM -0500, John wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 08:28:22AM

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Jay Patel
I am reading Primus C .. i started off with K R ..lost my way in some point so someone recommended start with Primus C Thanks all for help.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Kurt Mosiejczuk
Jan Stary wrote: On Jun 21 16:35:16, Paul Irofti wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 08:26:31AM -0400, Kenneth R Westerback wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 09:16:24PM +0200, Otto Moerbeek wrote: IMO tHe most valuable book is Kernighan Ritchie The C Programming Language. -Otto +1

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Christiano F. Haesbaert
Tedu's suggestion is the best one in my IMHO, implement a webserver. I would try to do the following: - Read KR - Join ##c on freenode, they can help a *lot*. - Read manpages of every function. - Code small UNIX utilities, start with cat, then wc. - Code something like a webserver, this is where

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Otto Moerbeek
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 08:00:58PM +0530, Jay Patel wrote: I am reading Primus C .. i started off with K R ..lost my way in some point so someone recommended start with Primus C Thanks all for help. Yes, KR requires study, but it's worth it. Be sure to return to KR at some point in time.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Gilles Chehade
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:09:47PM -0300, Christiano F. Haesbaert wrote: Tedu's suggestion is the best one in my IMHO, implement a webserver. I would try to do the following: - Read KR - Join ##c on freenode, they can help a *lot*. - Read manpages of every function. - Code small UNIX

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Christiano F. Haesbaert
On 21 June 2012 12:22, Gilles Chehade gil...@poolp.org wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:09:47PM -0300, Christiano F. Haesbaert wrote: Tedu's suggestion is the best one in my IMHO, implement a webserver. I would try to do the following: - Read KR - Join ##c on freenode, they can help a

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Darrin Chandler
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 05:12:22PM +0200, Otto Moerbeek wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 08:00:58PM +0530, Jay Patel wrote: I am reading Primus C .. i started off with K R ..lost my way in some point so someone recommended start with Primus C Thanks all for help. Yes, KR requires

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread llemike...@aol.com
Would it be right to say that the OpenBSD forked? discussion has been forked into a discussion about the best way to learn C? In my experience - the following ways are the best to learn: 1) Get a basic understanding of how a program is structured, how to interface with other programs

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Matthew Dempsky
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia nka...@gmail.com wrote: Coming back and checking the thread, allow me to start laughing *REALLY HARD* at this, since I've seen no other comments on it. The ability to lock your hardware with libc and glibc errors is only exceeded by the kernel

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Miod Vallat
I do hope they succeed on that matter at least. If they can't even get amd64/i386/arm working with LLVM, then it's a rough road ahead for us when we also have to worry about sparc, sh, mips, hppa, vax, and m88k too. There's always the possibility to split OpenBSD, `outsourcing' the platforms

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Otto Moerbeek
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 07:30:59PM +, Miod Vallat wrote: I do hope they succeed on that matter at least. If they can't even get amd64/i386/arm working with LLVM, then it's a rough road ahead for us when we also have to worry about sparc, sh, mips, hppa, vax, and m88k too. There's

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-21 Thread Bryan Irvine
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Miod Vallat m...@online.fr wrote: I do hope they succeed on that matter at least.  If they can't even get amd64/i386/arm working with LLVM, then it's a rough road ahead for us when we also have to worry about sparc, sh, mips, hppa, vax, and m88k too. There's

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-20 Thread Peter Laufenberg
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:58 PM, Jay Patel rockworl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all users, I am users too.  Thanks cody. I am learning C too. from C primus plus any thoughts from devs. which we should read? Udacity.com had a good python class. Intro, from zero background, to writing a

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-20 Thread Franco Fichtner
On Jun 20, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Peter Laufenberg wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:58 PM, Jay Patel rockworl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all users, I am users too. Thanks cody. I am learning C too. from C primus plus any thoughts from devs. which we should read? Udacity.com had a good python

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-20 Thread John
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 08:28:22AM +0530, Jay Patel wrote: Hi all users, I am users too. Thanks cody. I am learning C too. from C primus plus any thoughts from devs. which we should read? You may want to give this a try: http://c.learncodethehardway.org/book/learn-c-the-hard-way.html John

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-20 Thread Otto Moerbeek
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:39:44AM -0500, John wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 08:28:22AM +0530, Jay Patel wrote: Hi all users, I am users too. Thanks cody. I am learning C too. from C primus plus any thoughts from devs. which we should read? You may want to give this a try:

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-20 Thread Peter Laufenberg
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:58 PM, Jay Patel rockworl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all users, I am users too.  Thanks cody. I am learning C too. from C primus plus any thoughts from devs. which we should read? Udacity.com had a good python class. Intro, from zero background, to writing a

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-20 Thread David Walker
John openbsd () lacutt ! com You may want to give this a try: http://c.learncodethehardway.org/book/learn-c-the-hard-way.html Cheers. http://publications.gbdirect.co.uk/c_book/

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-20 Thread Nico Kadel-Garcia
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Matthew Dempsky matt...@dempsky.org wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Dominguez, Roland roland.doming...@tamucc.edu wrote: I just came across this article and was wondering if it's legit: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/OpenBSD-forked-to-create

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-19 Thread Ariane van der Steldt
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 12:59:16AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: Ariane wants to be involved as well, but is still waiting to see how others in the project feel. I've changed from waiting to being involved. And in Theo's interest in breaking secrecy: I've stepped down from maintaining uvm. Why?

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-19 Thread Theo de Raadt
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 12:59:16AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: Ariane wants to be involved as well, but is still waiting to see how others in the project feel. I've changed from waiting to being involved. And in Theo's interest in breaking secrecy: I've stepped down from maintaining

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-19 Thread cody chandler
Hello, I'm not a Developer, Maintainer or anything else. Strictly a user. 1. Thank you to all the Developers who take time to make a product and frankly give a dam about the work and quality of it. ( Wish car makers did the same! ) 2. Even though I am not a Developer or fully understand

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-19 Thread Pablo Velasco Fernández
I agree with Cody. And I encourage all the OpenBSD developers. You are doing a great work. Im triying to learn C by my self but its a bit complicated hahaha. Greetings from Spain El 19/06/2012 21:24, cody chandler cody.a.chand...@gmail.com escribió: Hello, I'm not a Developer, Maintainer or

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-19 Thread Jay Patel
Hi all users, I am users too. Thanks cody. I am learning C too. from C primus plus any thoughts from devs. which we should read? Thanks, Jay.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-19 Thread Ted Unangst
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 08:28, Jay Patel wrote: Hi all users, I am users too. Thanks cody. I am learning C too. from C primus plus any thoughts from devs. which we should read? You will not truly learn C, or any language, until you *do* something with it. Project euler has some problems if

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-19 Thread bofh
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:58 PM, Jay Patel rockworl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all users, I am users too.  Thanks cody. I am learning C too. from C primus plus any thoughts from devs. which we should read? Udacity.com had a good python class. Intro, from zero background, to writing a

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-19 Thread Jay Patel
Thanks Steve, Ted, bofh .. will take your advice and will start reading code. Also doing something with it. Thanks a lot.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-19 Thread STeve Andre'
On 06/19/12 22:58, Jay Patel wrote: Hi all users, I am users too. Thanks cody. I am learning C too. from C primus plus any thoughts from devs. which we should read? Thanks, Jay. Well, http://openbsd.org/books.html comes to mind. But also start reading code. An absurdly simple example

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-18 Thread SJP Lists
On 18 June 2012 15:46, Raymond Lillard rlill...@sonic.net wrote: On 06/17/2012 12:31 PM, Peter J. Philipp wrote: Having followed OpenBSD for quite some time I noticed that good developers come and go.  They come in, make something great happen, and disappear again. Also there have been forks

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-18 Thread Theo de Raadt
The secretive nature is concerning. But I hope that this situation can somehow turn out to be beneficial to both projects in the long term. As long as my favourite and most relied upon OS continues to evolve, I will be happy. And I will certainly continue to buy from and donate to the OpenBSD

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-18 Thread Andrew Dalgleish
On 14/06/2012 3:44 AM, Dominguez, Roland wrote: I just came across this article and was wondering if it's legit: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/OpenBSD-forked-to-create-Bitrig-161695 4.html Those who do not study history... https://www.bitrig.org/viewgit/?a=viewblobp=bitrigh

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-18 Thread Hugo Osvaldo Barrera
On 2012-06-18 02:46, Raymond Lillard wrote: Reason 4: Stability The new project FAQ states they intend to be less restrictive with the codebase when it comes to experimenting with features. Maybe in the long run some of the new features may be introduced into OBSD, but in the near term I

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-18 Thread Kevin Chadwick
yes. some more, some less. The feature argument - surely any barriers there must mean that that ideal goes against everything OpenBSD stands for. I wonder if that's just a developer enticer. I wouldn't mind better ARM support but I don't see why that couldn't be done under the OpenBSD project

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-18 Thread Indunil Jayasooriya
Their work getting rid of GNU stuff will, inevitably, affect OpenBSD (if they succeed at that anyway). Hmm, I personally prefer BSD Style licence. For me, BSD Philosophy has much more freedom. NOT Copyleft. ( I love it very much ) I'd like to see more BSD style stuffs coming in. anyway

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-18 Thread Jay Patel
Well. From PC-BSD ,FreeBSD gained much benefit. Hope that might happen here too. Regards, Jay.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-18 Thread Eric Furman
NO. GPL IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE TO TRUE FREE SOFTWARE. YES, I KNOW I AM SHOUTING. PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELF ABOUT THE PERVERTED GOALS OF THE FSF. On Mon, Jun 18, 2012, at 02:55 PM, Indunil Jayasooriya wrote: Their work getting rid of GNU stuff will, inevitably, affect OpenBSD (if they succeed at

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-18 Thread Peter Laufenberg
speaking of stuck CAPSLOCK, anyone else having DEL/INS problems on US keyboards w/ Euro key on 5? They're cheapo USB Dell manufactured by Logitech. Tweaking wscons flags didn't help (not running X11); should I remap keys individually? -- p NO. GPL IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE TO TRUE FREE SOFTWARE.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-18 Thread Peter Laufenberg
geez, it's a /segway/ -- p Dont steal the thread. On Jun 18, 2012 9:55 AM, Peter Laufenberg open...@laufenberg.ch wrote: speaking of stuck CAPSLOCK, anyone else having DEL/INS problems on US keyboards w/ Euro key on 5? They're cheapo USB Dell manufactured by Logitech. Tweaking wscons flags

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-17 Thread Peter Laufenberg
Funny thing is, I've never been upset about the 20+ OpenBSD and ex-OpenBSD developers who now work for google. Do they still work on OpenBSD and contribute back? -- p

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-17 Thread Jay Patel
I meant . Theo is right. Truth hurts. :D

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-17 Thread Ted Unangst
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 16:14, Peter Laufenberg wrote: Funny thing is, I've never been upset about the 20+ OpenBSD and ex-OpenBSD developers who now work for google. Do they still work on OpenBSD and contribute back? yes. some more, some less.

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-17 Thread Theo de Raadt
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 16:14, Peter Laufenberg wrote: Funny thing is, I've never been upset about the 20+ OpenBSD and ex-OpenBSD developers who now work for google. Do they still work on OpenBSD and contribute back? yes. some more, some less. first off, I do not understand the word back

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-17 Thread Peter J. Philipp
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:24:38PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote: make of it what you will. it's too stressfull. perhaps i should become an ex-OpenBSD developer too, those people seem to have much more glamourous lives... Having followed OpenBSD for quite some time I noticed that good

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-17 Thread Benny Lofgren
On 2012-06-17 21.31, Peter J. Philipp wrote: And then I always appreciated the permanent element in OpenBSD that guides our attention to areas we as users and sideliners don't always see immediately. I'll keep buying CD's when available and I do donations here and there when I feel like it,

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-17 Thread Rob Pierce
11 1010101 - Original Message - From: Peter J. Philipp p...@centroid.eu To: Theo de Raadt dera...@cvs.openbsd.org Cc: open...@laufenberg.ch, t...@tedunangst.com, misc@openbsd.org Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 3:31:36 PM Subject: Re: OpenBSD forked

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-17 Thread Raymond Lillard
On 06/17/2012 12:31 PM, Peter J. Philipp wrote: Having followed OpenBSD for quite some time I noticed that good developers come and go. They come in, make something great happen, and disappear again. Also there have been forks and I also noticed that no fork gets a light judgment. Rightfully

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-16 Thread Theo de Raadt
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Dominguez, Roland roland.doming...@tamucc.edu wrote: I just came across this article and was wondering if it's legit: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/OpenBSD-forked-to-create-Bitrig-161695 4.html Yes, it's legit and it reflects the reality of the facts

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-16 Thread Jay Patel
Hehehe .. :P

OpenBSD forked

2012-06-13 Thread Dominguez, Roland
I just came across this article and was wondering if it's legit: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/OpenBSD-forked-to-create-Bitrig-161695 4.html

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-13 Thread David Coppa
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Dominguez, Roland roland.doming...@tamucc.edu wrote: I just came across this article and was wondering if it's legit: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/OpenBSD-forked-to-create-Bitrig-161695 4.html Yes, it's legit and it reflects the reality of the facts

Re: OpenBSD forked

2012-06-13 Thread Matthew Dempsky
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Dominguez, Roland roland.doming...@tamucc.edu wrote: I just came across this article and was wondering if it's legit: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/OpenBSD-forked-to-create-Bitrig-161695 4.html They also plan to port libc++ and the compiler-rt runtime