Let's eliminate the Module List

I propose eliminating the Long Module List. I'm talking about http://www.cpan.org/modules/00modlist.long.html (2998 modules), not http://www.cpan.org/modules/01modules.index.html (6800 modules). =over 4 =item * It's no longer relevant. Way back when, it was cool to have a single readable source

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 04:54:32PM -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > I propose eliminating the Long Module List. I'm talking about > http://www.cpan.org/modules/00modlist.long.html (2998 modules), not > http://www.cpan.org/modules/01modules.index.html (6800 modules). As a long time CPAN module author a

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On 8/18/2004 5:54 PM, Andy Lester wrote: I propose eliminating the Long Module List. This proposal has come up several times on module-authors. IIRC, all the regulars are in agreement with the proposal; I don't think anyone dissented. The one bit of value that I see in this process is where Graha

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Randy W. Sims wrote: I made a suggestion regarding this before that I thought provided a fair solution , but no one commented. Basically, upon submission of a new module, a notice would be auto-posted to some list. If

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 17:57, Mark Stosberg wrote: > On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 04:54:32PM -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > I propose eliminating the Long Module List. I'm talking about > > http://www.cpan.org/modules/00modlist.long.html (2998 modules), not > > http://www.cpan.org/modules/01modules.inde

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 04:57:34PM -0500, Mark Stosberg wrote: > On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 04:54:32PM -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > > I propose eliminating the Long Module List. I'm talking about > > http://www.cpan.org/modules/00modlist.long.html (2998 modules), not > > http://www.cpan.org/modules/01

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 04:54:32PM -0500, Andy Lester wrote: > I propose eliminating the Long Module List. I'm talking about > http://www.cpan.org/modules/00modlist.long.html (2998 modules), not > http://www.cpan.org/modules/01modules.index.html (6800 modules). I, as the original author of the do

RE: Let's eliminate the Module List

It seems to me that ANY thing that contributes to the solution set of 'How do I find the module I'm looking for?' needs to be kept until it can be replaced with something of equal or greater value. I believe that the problem is bad now and only going to get worse unless something is done about it.

RE: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Hugh S. Myers wrote: It seems to me that ANY thing that contributes to the solution set of 'How do I find the module I'm looking for?' needs to be kept until it can be replaced with something of equal or greater value. search.cpan.org seems to be of greater value than the mod

RE: Let's eliminate the Module List

Andy Lester'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Perl 5 Porters'; > module-authors mailing list at perl.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Let's eliminate the Module List > > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Hugh S. Myers wrote: > > > It seems to me that ANY thing that contributes t

RE: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Thu, 2004-08-19 at 16:47, Christopher Hicks wrote: > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Hugh S. Myers wrote: > > > It seems to me that ANY thing that contributes to the solution set of > > 'How do I find the module I'm looking for?' needs to be kept until it > > can be replaced with something of equal or g

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 05:24:57PM +0100, Jose Alves de Castro wrote: > On Thu, 2004-08-19 at 16:47, Christopher Hicks wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Hugh S. Myers wrote: > > > > > It seems to me that ANY thing that contributes to the solution set of > > > 'How do I find the module I'm looking f

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Thu, 2004-08-19 at 17:35, Fergal Daly wrote: > On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 05:24:57PM +0100, Jose Alves de Castro wrote: > > On Thu, 2004-08-19 at 16:47, Christopher Hicks wrote: > > > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Hugh S. Myers wrote: > > > > > > > It seems to me that ANY thing that contributes to the solu

RE: Let's eliminate the Module List

Title: RE: Let's eliminate the Module List > I agree with you all, I know the list is probably doing more harm then > good, but it wasn't like that years ago, and the only reason  it is like > that now is that the list isn't being updated! If someone  keeps it up to &g

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jose Alves de Castro) writes: > I don't want to show the results of a search. I want to say "Here is the > link to the module list. See how long it is? It contains practically > everything you need, doesn't it?" http://www.cpan.org/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz -- yes >/de

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On 19 Aug 2004, at 14:05, Tim Bunce wrote: The one bit of value that I see in this process is where Graham looks at submissions that people have sent in and, if something seems like it's duplicate effort, tries to redirect the author to reduce the duplication. (http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.m

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Thu, 2004-08-19 at 13:54, Simon Cozens wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jose Alves de Castro) writes: > > I don't want to show the results of a search. I want to say "Here is the > > link to the module list. See how long it is? It contains practically > > everything you need, doesn't it?" > > http:/

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

Christopher Hicks wrote: On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Hugh S. Myers wrote: 2. Push hard on the notion of adding a keywords item to the 'standard' for pod documentation. What should those keywords be? Who decides? I'm personally much more interested in seeing a dmoz-ish hierarchy so related modules can

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Thu, 2004-08-19 at 18:54, Simon Cozens wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jose Alves de Castro) writes: > > I don't want to show the results of a search. I want to say "Here is the > > link to the module list. See how long it is? It contains practically > > everything you need, doesn't it?" > > http:/

RE: Let's eliminate the Module List

Christopher Hicks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Hugh S. Myers wrote: > >> It seems to me that ANY thing that contributes to the solution set of >> 'How do I find the module I'm looking for?' needs to be kept until it >> can be replaced with something of equal or greater value.

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 09:50:22AM +0100, Jose Alves de Castro wrote: > On Thu, 2004-08-19 at 18:54, Simon Cozens wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jose Alves de Castro) writes: > > > I don't want to show the results of a search. I want to say "Here is the > > > link to the module list. See how long it

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

I'm ok with eliminating the list: I largely agree with the comments as to why it no longer servers the purpose it was intended for. As for replacing it: * search.cpan.org is better, but leaves a lot to be desired in terms of keywords. * I'm not entirely against duplication of effort, since ther

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 04:11:33PM -0400, Robert Rothenberg wrote: > It would be a lot of work to implement a workflow system (I wish I had the > time), but once it's implemented, the approval work could be Your honesty with "I wish I had the time" illustrates the problem here. [and the f

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nicholas Clark) writes: > Until someone does, nothing will change. No-one on this list is preventing > anyone from trying this. I'm working on it. The only thing that sucks about search.cpan.org is the search engine, which is a shame since that's the major part of it. Thankfully

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 10:43:38PM +0100, Nicholas Clark ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Talk is cheap. Sadly none of this will get done unless someone with > sufficient desire to do this creates themselves the time and does it. I think that dropping 00*.html was a good first step. > There is nothin

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 10:43:38PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: > > There is nothing stopping anyone on this list prototyping their own > improved substitute for search.cpan.org. (although it helps if you have > a public facing webserver if you want to show it to others). > > Yet no-one does. Ra

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

Andy Lester wrote: On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 10:43:38PM +0100, Nicholas Clark ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: There is nothing stopping anyone on this list prototyping their own improved substitute for search.cpan.org. (although it helps if you have a public facing webserver if you want to show it to othe

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Randy W. Sims) writes: > Looks like you and Simon should collaborate. We've been chatting. > Is it possible or realistic for it to have pluggable search & browse > engines. I think so. There are three things at issue, all of which can and should be implemented distinctly: 1)

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

Andy Lester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I've already pulled the minicpan (a la Randal's mini mirror) Can't we make this an official tool? It is very handy! (If Randal is okay, I'll volunteer to toolize/cpanize it). -- Johan

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

Johan Vromans wrote: Andy Lester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I've already pulled the minicpan (a la Randal's mini mirror) Can't we make this an official tool? It is very handy! (If Randal is okay, I'll volunteer to toolize/cpanize it). Very usefull. I've made great use of it for gathering stats a

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

Simon Cozens wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Randy W. Sims) writes: I still think sourceforge-like hierchical catagories (Topics) in META.yml would make for good light-weight search and improved by-catagory browsing I disagree quite violently with this, but I'm not going to implement searching and index

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Simon Cozens wrote: I still think sourceforge-like hierchical catagories (Topics) in META.yml would make for good light-weight search and improved by-catagory browsing I disagree quite violently with this, but I'm not going to implement searching and indexing in a way that pre

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Randy W. Sims) writes: > hmm, are you going to generate multiple indexes? It might be > interesting if we could search over the various fields provided by > META.yml[1] I am only going to generate one index, but this is because Plucene indexes are better than you think they are.

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Hicks) writes: > Browsing and searching each have their place. It is conceivable that > a powerful enough search could emulate browsing. It is not only conceivable, but it's something I've spent several months achieving! > fond of browsing than searching. It may o

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Simon Cozens wrote: Repeat after me: browsing is just searching metadata. For our current purposes I'm willing to go along with that. Once the metadata exists people can do whatever they want with it. I strongly suspect that one of those things will be making something that

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

* Fergal Daly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004-08-20 11:39]: > So why not auto generate another list, giving keyowrds and > descriptions of _every_ module? Particularly as that's not almost trivial to write. I've done that before -- http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=281203 f.ex, which is far from

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

> "Randy" == Randy W Sims <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Randy> Note however that it needs a slight tweak. I was very... erm, suprised Randy> when I ran it on one of my Windows machines, and it downloaded the Randy> MINICPAN and then proceeded to delete everything it downloaded. I was also surpr

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On 8/24/2004 9:28 AM, Simon Cozens wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Randy W. Sims) writes: hmm, are you going to generate multiple indexes? It might be interesting if we could search over the various fields provided by META.yml[1] I am only going to generate one index, but this is because Plucene indexes

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

* Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004-08-24 11:19]: > I think that the world moved from browse to search some time in > the mid 90s (hell, we're even being encouraged to search rather > than browse email these days) and that this is because browsing > is useful if your search engine isn't good e

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

* Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004-08-24 15:37]: > Repeat after me: browsing is just searching metadata. That is essentially correct, but beware of metacrap[1]. [1] http://www.well.com/~doctorow/metacrap.htm Regards, -- Aristotle "If you can't laugh at yourself, you don't take life seriou

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (A. Pagaltzis) writes: > I object. Browsing is problematic when the amount of data becomes > overwhelming, but it is useful as a concept. You're thinking in terms of use, I'm thinking in terms of implementation. -- It's usually // either for a good reason // or a bad reason

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (A. Pagaltzis) writes: > * Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004-08-24 15:37]: > > Repeat after me: browsing is just searching metadata. > That is essentially correct, but beware of metacrap[1]. > [1] http://www.well.com/~doctorow/metacrap.htm Niggly comments are great! I love t

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 12:53:15PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A. Pagaltzis) writes: > > I object. Browsing is problematic when the amount of data becomes > > overwhelming, but it is useful as a concept. > > You're thinking in terms of use, I'm thinking in terms of implementati

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

* Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004-08-27 13:53]: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A. Pagaltzis) writes: > > I object. Browsing is problematic when the amount of data > > becomes overwhelming, but it is useful as a concept. > > You're thinking in terms of use, I'm thinking in terms of > implementation.

Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

* Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2004-08-27 13:53]: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (A. Pagaltzis) writes: > > That is essentially correct, but beware of metacrap[1]. > > [1] http://www.well.com/~doctorow/metacrap.htm > > Niggly comments are great! I love the way they really motivate > me to get this finis

Re: [unclassified] Re: Let's eliminate the Module List

Graham Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Right. And a grand job he has been doing. I second this. For a while I've tried to do something sensible with the registry requests, but failed due to lack of response in times where feedback was needed (i.e., with ambigous or dubious requests). So _I_