Patrice,
You write:
What is the meaning of relational in relational database
again?
Apparently not what you think. The relational in 'relational database'
comes from the term relation--a certain type of mathematical table
in set theory. It has nothing at all to do with relationships (the
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Mon, March 04, 2002 5:13 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Geez, will you guys knock it off. Like many of you, I started on punch
cards. But now my management is yammering about
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sun, March 03, 2002 2:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
I had a teacher in college who could program the machine by
flipping
the switches on the front.
We had paper tape
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I had a teacher in college who could program the machine by flipping
the switches on the front.
that's how you IPLed the 360 and 1440 series.
We had paper tape, a step up from the plugs :)
IBM 403 Accounting Machine. lots and lots of room for plugs, and lots
of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Michael Cupp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Fri, March 01, 2002 3:08 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
30 years? Wasn't that involved in sliding wooden beads
]]
Sent: Fri, March 01, 2002 3:08 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
30 years? Wasn't that involved in sliding wooden beads on a metal
stick?
-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:33 AM
Services
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sun, March 03, 2002 2:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
I had a teacher in college who could program
recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
I had a teacher in college who could program the machine by flipping
the switches on the front.
We had paper tape, a step up from the plugs :)
--- àãø_éçéàì [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well
.
Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sun, March 03, 2002 2:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
I
since then.
Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help
PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A very true set of statements on all
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am
in
the
process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did
Message-
From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much
Act stupid when you ask leading questions. Grovel some. Damanagement just loves it
when they can seem smarter than employees and will expound greatly on their 'thoughts'.
I use this technique all the time. The only downside is how quickly my boss and
coworkers accept my pretend (?) ignorance.
Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Discoverer was my first thought too, especially since the folks in the wood
panelled offices already use Discoverer.
I don't know that the all inclusive management came up with this one
directly. There is a very bright COO
Hello Don
In a more serious mood: DO IT.
I also had some arguments with my boss over the years and except
for 2-3 cases (in 20 years) that I told my boss that I will not do something
and if he wants it he can do it himself, my motto was if he wants to waste
resources for something that is
Cable-hoarding boss? Magic!
We had a completely non-technical manager a while ago. Our main billing
system developed silent memory errors that were corrupting the data until
one day the system wouldn't come back (Ingres, don't ask). In a high-powered
emergency meeting this manager, all red-faced
decrees his data warehouse design.
Help!
I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made
your
suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed. We
are
facing similar problems (although not quite to your degree) and we are
going
to do two proof
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design.
Help!
I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made
your
suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed. We
Don,
I agree with Yechiel. You do, after all, work for this guy, and by
extension, the company. You need to learn to pick your fights. In the
larger picture, does it really matter that much? Are your kids at home
going to be disappointed in you if you build this POC? Take the advice of
most
: RE: Re[2]:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design.
Help
Sanity? A requirement? SINCE WHEN?
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:33 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
I don't know about questioning the design, it's more like questioning
Just make sure it's documented that the original idea is NOT yours :)
--- Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don,
I agree with Yechiel. You do, after all, work for this guy, and by
extension, the company. You need to learn to pick your fights. In
the
larger picture, does it
Tom - You da man!
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Don,
I agree with Yechiel. You do, after all, work for this guy, and by
extension, the company. You need to learn to pick your fights. In the
larger picture, does
Rachel,
That's what step #3 is for. Everyone will forget how bad the first
warehouse was once the true properly designed warehouse is in place and
delivering the goods. It sounds like there is pressure to deliver
something right away - as usual, no time to design it properly. A manager
I used
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am in the
process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did not have to
cleanup someone else's mess. Now if you all don't mind, I'm off to the hardware
store for a new shovel!! :-)
you
Rach,
good point. boy, do we live in a tough world :)
-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:49 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
But Tom, there will be a short time period where people are asking who
designed this piece of crap? and the manager who
I'll take the hit on this one. That should be 64M.
I find it interesting that the IT manager is intent on turning over a dw
to all the users, yet the corp policy appears to be, give the the user a
system that meets min requirements, don't give the user any admin rights on
their own machine,
I believe he has already published Dummies for Oracle8i.
At 2/27/02, you wrote:
Buy him the 'Oracle8i For Dummies' as your departing gift, and suggest that
he does this himself...
Heck, if he can design it, let him have the privilege of building it as
well :)
Good Luck...
- Kirti
Getting anything in writing would be a challenge. I have yet to figure out
how to word an email that gets a response!
At 2/27/02, you wrote:
You have this decree in writing?
Okay, once you get that. Do what he wants, making sure everyone knows
that this great new database design and
Hi Yechiel,
Thx. The hardest thing for me to do is step back and let management micro
manage technical issues about which they know nothing, and apply resources
where they see fit. After a group therapy session with the cobol folks, we
were all in a much better mood.
Did we meet the
My thanks to every one of you that posted! The laugh meter has pegged. I
have refocused on the goal, and I'm off to get some very good Godivia
chocolate ice cream.
...and the team is pulling out all stops to create and load the single
table DW. We are also pulling out all the stops to put
Oh, and does this one know buzzwords.
At a recent staff meeting, he decided it was time to test my knowledge
about the technical merits that supported several buzzwords he tossed
out. I stepped way out of character, and in front of the other 18 people I
apologized to him that I was not a
Discoverer was my first thought too, especially since the folks in the wood
panelled offices already use Discoverer.
I don't know that the all inclusive management came up with this one
directly. There is a very bright COO that probably spawned the idea of
some kind of data mart or data
original-
De: Bellows, Bambi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Enviado el: Miércoles, 27 de Febrero de 2002 15:29
Para: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Asunto: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Both. I was a consultant to this pharmaceutical company at the time and I
honestly
This one is priceless!
At 2/28/02, you wrote:
Cable-hoarding boss? Magic!
We had a completely non-technical manager a while ago. Our main billing
system developed silent memory errors that were corrupting the data until
one day the system wouldn't come back (Ingres, don't ask). In a
Don,
if as you are saying this guy is v headstrong then use the Chinese
approach.
1. Ensure that you have backed up your argument with a design or at least a
doc outlining your approach showing that views and associated tables will
ensure performance .
2. Send your emails to him and to others
I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made your
suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed. We are
facing similar problems (although not quite to your degree) and we are going
to do two proof of concepts... on that denormalizes EVERYTHING into
Um, then that's not a data warehouse...
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:48 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the
IT
manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running
1. Run, don't walk, to monster.com.
2. Update and print resume
3. Enjoy vacation (hopefully brief)
Nothing good is going to come of the warehouse
Don dondealy
Point #6 - I did not know Win98 can run under 64k RAM. Tell your Boss he
needs at least 16MB RAM for Win98 :
6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their
data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen
teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows
When I was consulting at a particular client, I saw the effects of this
approach after the fact. Massive amounts of data were loaded into tables
that were never accessed except to load data because the users couldn't do
anything with it. Later it was thought that to fix this all they had to do
Your damager should be committed in the nearest mental institution ASAP. The guy is a
moron.
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 8:28 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
1. Run, don't walk, to monster.com.
2. Update and print resume
3. Enjoy vacation
You have this decree in writing?
Okay, once you get that. Do what he wants, making sure everyone knows
that this great new database design and application are all his idea
(do this with a smile, with enthusiasm if you can manage it)
hang on and wait for it all to fall apart.
Otherwise, do
We Have the same issue here. Large Tables , loaded
nightly But nobody uses them. Management calls it a
Datawarehouse, I call it a data repository. Can a
cusotmer find out what they need. NOPE
Document your findings, to C.Y.A.
Good Luck
--- Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When I was
The boss is NOT always right but he is always the BOSS.
Murphy said: If they want it bad (in 24 hours) they will get it bad.
Let the guy have whatever he wants, just be sure to document his requests.
Don't you want to get advanced after they fire HIM :-)
Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer
Buy him the 'Oracle8i For Dummies' as your departing gift, and suggest that
he does this himself...
Heck, if he can design it, let him have the privilege of building it as
well :)
Good Luck...
- Kirti
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:48 AM
To: Multiple
Hmmm ... in an old project we had a manager with similar ideas... his ideas
of design were, what should I say? 'revolutionary'? We finally named his
design technique as 'Rainfall Design' because the ideas would come down like
a heavy rainfall and then drain away immediately when logic was
I call it a data repository.
I call it a data suppository...
Because nobody wants it after you've stuffed in a dark place. :-)
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:08 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
We Have the same issue here. Large Tables ,
I once had a manager who was a paranoid schizophrenic. Very exciting, let
me tell you. But, one thing he told me in a rather roundabout paranoid way
is that the way you deal with crazy bosses who were out to get you is to
make friends with other people at your boss' level in the organization,
: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
When I was consulting at a particular client, I saw the effects of this
approach after the fact. Massive amounts of data were loaded into tables
that were never accessed except to load data because the users couldn't do
anything with it. Later
Try Win98Lite, I doubt you can make it fit under 64K though.
Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:53 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:Re: Manager decrees his data
Hi Bambi,
I once had a manager who was a paranoid schizophrenic.
BEEN THERE!
A former boss from hell got very angry (there's a reason they call it mad)
because he tried to fire me and found out he couldn't. Even so, he liked
having me around because he needed me. I hung in there because the
Both. I was a consultant to this pharmaceutical company at the time and I
honestly liked the job that I was doing, so I stuck it out. After I got
over the initial shock of having an insane boss, I found the whole thing
amusing. Seems he didn't trust the data center with cables for some weird
:
Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made
your
suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed. We
are
facing similar problems (although not quite to your degree) and we
April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
02/27/02 03:48 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design.
Help!
I agree, but at all
By taking all the joins out I think they mean basically forcing Oracle to
store the row data in the same blocks since you changes the rows to columns
or some such. I saw a database out there a while back promoted by Joe Celko
called KillerDB that does this but the data is still stored in rows.
Also not uncommon when tracking medical data.
Bambi.
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:53 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Some of the tables in J.D. Edwards OneWorld have over 200 columns, VARCHAR
is not used, only NUMBER and CHAR. Makes for some wide
www.kx.com
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:38 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
By taking all the joins out I think they mean basically forcing Oracle to
store the row data in the same blocks since you changes the rows to columns
or some such. I saw a
Title: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
wow ..
now my place of work seems oh so normal !! kinda boring really ...
Nelson Flores
Project Manager
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
Information Technology Center http
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
How much do you charge an hour? They want to build a table with 980
columns, because the queries fly if you index it heavily. It won't
load...
the indexes won't build from load to load
What is the meaning of relational in relational database again?
Good grief.
Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services--
At one of the Oracle Application group meetings it was stated that it is
better to have large tables and forget normalization. Disks are getting
faster and you can read a lot more data from one disk reather that
getting your data from many disk locations. Also it doesn't really
matter the size of
S.A.M.E.?
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
At one of the Oracle Application group meetings it was stated that it is better to
have large tables and forget normalization. Disks are getting faster and you can read
a
Relational. Adjective. Of, or relating to, relatives. Generally pertaining
to mandatory dinners or inane conversations regarding politics, religion,
sex, money or military service. Of necessity, the tables are denormalized,
that is, all semblance to normalcy is rejected, especially when
rows and columns... you know... like Excel.
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:28 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
What is the meaning of relational in relational database again?
Good grief.
Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified
Stripe And Mirror Everything
--- Michael Cupp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
S.A.M.E.?
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:48 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
At one of the Oracle Application group meetings it was stated that it
is better to have large
Morle, 'do the math'
Jared
Ron Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
02/27/02 12:48 PM
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help
Run, don't walk.
Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX
210-581-6217
Common sense will not accomplish great things. Simply become insane and
desperate.
-Original Message-
From: Don [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:48 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Please respond to ORACLE-L
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design.
Help!
I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made
your
suggestions and then went
Maybe not the best advice. The job market is a bit rough at the moment. If
you have a job I suggest keeping it unless you have a sure thing lined up.
Ethan
-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:26 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
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