Re: diet

I think it is this obsession with cost that rules dietetic services in hospitals of all kinds. I actually had a fairly good course in nutrition during my midwifery education, however I would be surprised if even the very best education on nutrition in mid education programs would have any impact on

changing email provider.

I have forgotten how I get in touch with the webmaster. I am changing providers but want to stay on the list.  marilyn

Re:

well said Liz. marilyn

Re: melbournes child

I think this is an excellent response as it hits many of the issues involved when women wean early. I haven't read the article but  got from your response that the main issue was "insufficient" infant weight gain in the first week or so. I am also guessing ( because I have heard this from mothers)

Re: FHM

Deb I think Ann was asking about non electronic monitoring ie doppler/ fetascope/pinard during labor. Do you have any research on that? One of my classmates at Seattle Midwifery School did her Senior paper on this topic, however I don't have her paper with me and it is unpublished. I generally have

Re: Closure of Liverpool Team Midwifery Project

Why can't they come up with a salary payment method for midwives who work in groups/teams?  marilyn

Re: practical questions

So well said, Lynn. regards, marilyn

Re: NCAD 'C-Scape' 2002

Wow, Jo I think this is wonderful. I think this is the kind of exposure that women need. I hope you all didn't think in my comment about informative videos on c/s that I think women should be scared out of having them. I really don't think the surgery should be minimised, however I think it is a tr

Re: Launch of www.birthjourney

Dear Lois: A truly lovely site. What an inspiration.  Marilyn

Re: 'educated' women

yes, those too. marilyn

Re: 'educated' women

I really think all women considering elective cesareans should be shown graphic videos of the operation and exactly what will be done to their body. As a midwifery student I was quite interested to witness my first c/s and it was nothing at all like the pre-op videos I had seen in CBE classes or at

Re: Yahoo! News Story - Home Births Linked to More Infant Deaths

I sent that news story to the Executive Director of Seattle Midwifery School and here is her response (apparently the paper was presented as a poster at the ACOG conference and has not as yet been published): From Jo Anne Myers-Cieko: "It hasn't been published yet.  It was presented at the ACOG co

Re: nitrous oxide

Hi all: It was quite interesting to me when I was visiting in Sydney in January, to witness the use of N2O2, since we don't use it in the US. Some midwives here (homebirth) have heard of midwives in Great Britain and Canada using it (nitrous) at home and are quite intrigued by that. I have read

Re: Fw: prem care

Dear Rhonda and all: I don't think the gestational age for the development of sucking has changed other than we are more aware of the age range at which it may occur. Some perfectly normal preemies will not suck well until 35-36 weeks to term, yet others will suck well from 32-33 weeks. I thin

Re: Abruptio Placenta

Dear List: I haven't read any research beyond Dr. Brewers that replicates his claims. I wish it were as simple as a good high protein diet as preventive treatment for pre-eclampsia. I don't think that works for everyone, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth trying. I think the web sites Tina ga

Re: sorry -ignore previous email here

I support all of you who are defending this program against the "attack" by was it Dr. Mudge. However, I would like to offer a note of caution. Australia is not the Netherlands in many ways though many of its health care programs are excellent. Howeverthere seems to be simultaneously an attemp

Re: consumer representation

I think this list is a good place to start in looking at what has been improved in any country in the last 20 years or so, what has stayed the same and what has gotten worse. marilyn -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubs

Re: consumer representation

That was exactly my reaction Louise but my experience in Australia is limited so I refrained. Even in many places in America the list is old. Eye meds (usually antibiotic cream) are still the law even though text books state that antibiotic eye ointment of the type routinely used would NOT be

midwifery positions

Dear List: As many of you may know I have been hanging out at the list for a while. I have now finished my midwifery education in the USA (direct entry at Seattle Midwifery School), have received my license to practice midwifery in Washington, and am in the process of applying for registratio

Re: Fenugreek

I have been advised previously that it increases milk production: it was recommended for a client of mine who had had previous breast reduction surgery and subsequent delayed onset of lactation, it was definetly beneficial for my client (as well as determination etc.). marilyn -- This mailing

Re: moxibustion

I don't think we know how it works: whether it is the heat alone or a combo of the heat and the herb. Traditionally moxa is made from Artemisia vulgaris common name mugwort, the Japanese name is moxa. Traditionally these are the herbs used and in the study cited the researchers could not do a p

Re: 'turning' breech presentations.

Joy you raised some very interesting questions. Firstly the numbers of women included in the trial were actually quite small (130 in each arm), so the percentages translate to even smaller numbers (the 75% of moxa treated women with cepalic fetuses at term reprsents 98 women and the 62.3% of wo

Re: 'turning' breech presentations.

It is actually an interesting article to read. The researchers had apparently wanted to use an alternate herb / treatment as a placebo, but Chinese women are so familiar with moxibustion to turn a breech baby, they decided the placebo effect would be null and void. The paper describes the treat

Re: 'turning' breech presentations.

The paper called "Moxibustion for Correction of Breech Presentation - a Randomized Controlled Trial" by Cardini, F. and Weixin, H. was published in JAMA 1998 Nov 11;280(18):1580-4. It was done in the outpatient dept. of the Women's Hospital of Jiangi province, Nanchang, and Jiujiang Women's and

Re: RE: Information on twin births

Congratulations Sally on making the space for that woman to birth her babies. I recently had the opportunity to observe 2 sets of twin births about a week apart. The first woman (a multip)came into labour spontaneously at home so that by the time she was admitted etc.. she was fully. So,

Re: VBAC question

I have actually read about it in either an article on VBAC or an ACOG protocol on VBAC, however I have never heard of anyone actually doing it before. The midwife I was precepting with was (and is) having her VBAC clients birth in the hospital and so after a successful birth when the OB was ho

Re: [BMidStudentCollective] Re: Flinders Uni PI Insurance !!!!!!!!

Dear list: Firstly PI for midwives: I recently heard from a Canadian midwife what is happenning there re PI: they were faced not with withdrawal of insurance but with savagely escalating costs of premiums (from $2,000 per yr to $40,000 per yr). Apparently in British Columbia the College of Midw

Re: Any support for a frightened mum

In a message dated 3/21/2 4:32:30 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << http://www.pinky-mychild.com/cgi/discuss/ >> Pinky: I tried to get to the message, but I didn't know where to go once I arrived at the page the address took me to. Marilyn -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visi

Re: RE: Finally - cord cutting and clamping

Dear Joy... Thanks for your information. How you describe your management of third stage is very similar to what we do in Seattle; basically we are hands off until after the placenta has delivered, and the cord is never cut routinely before it has stopped pulsing. So, that is why when faced w

Re: RE: Finally

Thank you all for your responses to my question. I too like to leave the maternal end of the cord unclamped, although as a student I had some midwives ask me to reclamp it as they wanted to know where the blood being lost was coming from. On thinking about the responses I would like to venture

Re: RE: Finally

Thank you all for your responses to my question. I too like to leave the maternal end of the cord unclamped, although as a student I had some midwives ask me to reclamp it as they wanted to know where the blood being lost was coming from. On thinking about the responses I would like to venture

Re: Finally

Thank you Andrea that was a lovely story, a beautiful birth. I have a question about active management of 3rd stage. Having gone to school in the US, my experience with 3rd stage at a spontaneous birth is mainly expectant/physiologic management. If we do give an oxytocic it is usually after t

Re: Hep B and health care workers

Hi Sue and all: yes at Seattle Midwifery School Hep B vac was recommended too but not required, it was more or less informed consent for us as health care providers. In most clinical sites it wasn't an issue but if it is then the clinic/midwife is informed that this student is not vaccinated (

Re: Jaundice and meconium; Minimum service levels

Yes I agree Leigh, it is the jaundice in the first 24 hrs that is concerning with this baby and hopefully the concern with meconium passage was not a red herring. It does seems that the obvious potential causes of hemolysis in the baby (and hence, jaundice): Rh factor and ABO incompatibility we

Re: Jaundice and meconium

Dear Kirsten: I am with you in that the jaundice by 24hrs seems a little early to be blaming it on unpassed mec. I have seen p(a)eds here (USA, Seattle and one in California) give suppositories to babies who are a little lethargic and yellow on days 4 or 5, however the first 24 hrs is a diff

Re: RE: re BMid

Dear Macha: Firstly I want to say I totally agree with everything Pete said, and if the course had been available just a little earlier I would be there too. But there may be some grains of truth in what is being said to you. Please correct me others as I may well be wrong. I have completed my

Re: re Apgars

I have only seen a 10 minute apgar done on babies <5 at 1 min or < 7 at 5 min. Marilyn -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: umbil cord bld merchandising.

These companies who want the parents to pay to store their baby's cord blood are just marketeers. I am sure there has not been any research done on the benefits to the baby of keeping the blood vs storing it: the storage hasn't been around long enough for them to know. It is a big marketing ca

Re: Is there moulding in a breech presentation?

Interesting quote Jenni. It is also interesting that the baby seems to me to have been in an extended position. The "ideal" position for a breech baby is fully flexed , which would (it seems to me) prevent the head from receiving moulding from the contracting fundus. As I said previously I have

Re: PUPPS

Yes, I agree with the previous definitions (but can never remember them all) I think the essential thing to remember is that the pruritis/severe itching can also be a symptom of choleostasis and so liver involvement should be ruled out. Once liver involvement is ruled out it appears that PUPPS

Re: Rural births

PJ: wonderful to know there is a plan for emergencies. Regards marilyn -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: Is there moulding in a breech presentation?

Dear Melinda: I think (someone please correct me if I am wrong) that that is one of the primary concerns with breech birth: there is no moulding. To come out the diameter of the baby's skull that presents to move onder the pubic arch and out of the pelvic outlet has to match the diameter of the

Re: rural births

Yes Meaghan: I should have qualified the "30 minute rule" as I agree it is entirely arbitary, but is what is used to "disqualify" a service or hospital around here (Washington). In reality people are often a couple of hours from a hospital. As you said having an emergency plan is what is import

Re: what can I advise?

Dear Macha: I liked Wendy's response. It seems that we should be writing grant/funding proposals for midwifery led care for rural communities throughout Australia. I was recently up in North Queensland and discovered that maternity care at the local hospital where I grew up (Tully) was basical

Re: hippies...

Me too... all applies except that I don't live on a commune at the moment. A pity it seems to be considered a negative. Oh well. Such is life. I am not vegan but all three of my daughters are (they are 26, 24, and 21 years). love and peace, marilyn -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graph

Re: VBAC

Dear Listers: I am trying to find the author and title of the book about fistulas and the hospital in Ethiopia. I have just done a search on BarnesandNoble.com and only came up with what looked like a medical text book called : Obstetric Fistulas by Zaccharin, something tells me this is not the

Re: VBAC

Wonderful story Mary. Here is the reference of the previously mentioned article: Lydon-Rochelle, M., Holt, V. L., Easterling, T. R., and Martin, D. P. "Risk of Uterine rupture during labor among women with a prior cesarean delivery". N Engl J Med 2001;345:3-8. Even though the authors' con

Re: VBAC soap box

It was in the New England journal of Medicine, around june 2001:It was a 10 year retrospective study that compared incidence of uterine rupture amongst women who had had one previous LUCS in Washington State done at University of Washington. The groups compared were elective c/s, IOL with and w

Re: narcotics clearance by neonates

It is my understanding that pethidine is demerol just a different brand name. marilyn -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: VBAC soap box

It's that VBAC study published in the New England Jnl of Med. It has hospitals running scared. As we all know what it really raised our concerns about was VBAC inductions especially with prostaglandins, but I personally think ( no research to back this up) that VBAC's are not being offered as

Re: sanctimonious pretensiousness

Believe it or not there was something I forgot to say. I have only seen it on this list that the training of Australian Midwives is not recognized internationally. It occurs to me that regardless of how true this is, it may have something to do with our tendency to put ourselves down rather t

Re: sanctimonious pretensiousness (long)

Bravo I agree too. There is a place where we meet in the middle. In my opinion, in the best of all possible worlds, we homebirth midwives ( and that is my training, DEM, Seattle Midwifery School) can safely assist moms to birth at home, which is most of the time, and make appropriate transfers

Re: Support homebirth on Thursday

Just a note. Ina May is a recognized midwife: she is a CPM: certified professional midwife and runs her own training workshops for midwifery assistants at The Farm. There are many divergent paths to midwifery competency and Ina May is now a strong advocate for determining this. Personally, I a

Re: for interest- Medscape - due dates

Interesting stuff Rhonda. Preeclampsia is one of those issues in pregnancy and birth where care givers preexisting notions as to its origins definetly affects their care. If you look it up in medline data bases etc. (as I am sure you have) some researchers chase diet, others genetics and so on

Re: formula without consent?

yes, I think we all need to be aware that the birth plans on the internet all seem to be about 20 yrs out of date. We don't use eye drops anymore in America at least not in Washington or California. And does anyone give perineal shaves anymore? But those items are still on the internet birth p

Re: formula without consent?

This confirms my own experience albiet from a different anle. My mother being a 1930's trained midwife was a strong breast feeding advocate, having breast fed me her only child in 1951, despite considerable social pressure to be more modern. When she returned to work in 1958 I do remember her b

Re: Candida in pregnancy

Dear Allison: I have known women with a similar problem, who received no relief from prescription yeast meds ( micanazoles, difucan etc) but did receive relief from homeopathy. I can't give specifics as I am not a qualified homeopath, but would suggest you could refer her to one in your area.

Re: moving to Oz

Dear Meaghan: I am going on a student placement to St. George Hospital, Kegorah, Sydney. It will be Jan2 through Feb 7 or there abouts. I am returning to Seattle for most of 2002, to take the state licensing exam here and to work while I wait for my daughter to finish nursing school. I am not

Re: Birthing Stool Policy

Exactly Tina: I have received several babies with the mom on the birth stool ( a de By). I only recently noticed my knee acting up after a water birth and a 40 minute second stage ( which actually was short as the mom was a primip). I know changing positions and yoga and stretches etc would hel

Re: Birthing Stool Policy

Dear Jackie: I totally agree it is all about control; BUT after being at some 60 home births in the past year as a midwifery student, I have a very painful knee after all the squatting, kneeling, etc..I have been doing. Not that I want to change and have the mums assume the "beetle postion" at

Re: for interest re : Misoprostol /Cytotec

Dear Danielle: My heart goes out to you in your loss. I also don't want you to think that I support the use of cytotec for induction of labor, I totally agree with you regarding the cavalier way it is used and I cringe every time I read of its use in this way. I witnessed this first hand when I

Re: Waterbirth, Strep B, Thrush, Herpes2 and mec

Hi all again: where I am in Washington State, USA I have had the opportunity to participate in a number of water births at home and in free standing birth centers. We (the midwives I have precepted with) do offer our mom's to culture or not to culture with Strep B (GBS) and risk based or cult

Re: short cord

Hi all: Mareeba is in far north Queensland, the Atherton tableland, north west of Cairns. My grandmother lived in Mt. Molloy which is a very small town north of Mareeba on the road to Cooktown. love, marilyn -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit

Re: Fw: BMJ Table of contents for 27 October 2001; Vol. 323, No. 7319

I find this trend concerning and I have a question. What was the total operative delivery rate in England 30 yrs ago? I mean the rate of high forceps, mid forceps and low forceps delivery? Or can we assume that the 96% of deliveries that did not have a c/s had a NSVD? Also, what were the mort

Re: The Algebra Of Infinite Justice(LONG)

Thanks Denise for this information. Living in the USA it is hard to get information that isn't slanted. Public radio has provided BBC news at night. The saber rattling is deafening even though many segments of society are clammering for more information. Again thank you for this. Marilyn -- Th

Re: Mid-term abortion

My experience with misoprostol for abortions has been during my gyne rotations at abortion clinics. It is commonly used with either methtrexate or mifestoprene (s) (RU486) for medical or chemical abortions only well within the first 9 weeks at the women's clinics I was at. At these clinics all

Re: Hep B

I have not had to deal directly with this situation, but theoretically this is what midwices at the homebith practices (in the USA) I have precepted in would do: on diagnoses of the positive hep B on the prenatal screen and confirmation of this, we would make sure we had both Hep B vaccine an

Re: Recommended reference book

I 'll be really interested to read others responses on this. I had to convert the mmol/L to mg/dL and came up with 165mg/dL which is a little high if this was a normal blood glucose: not a 1hour after a 75g screening load (in which case it is reasonable). If not a loading and not a fasting just

Re: Fw: Physiological 3rd Stage

you can also try the Cochrane data base, MIDIRS, Pubmed (which is the National Library of Medecine. On Cochrane you will need a password etc to get more than abstracts. On Midirs you will need to sign up to get more than very basic also. Pubmed will give you abstracts and citations. The British

Re: UPDATE on PI INSURANCE FOR ALL

I would think that there is the benefit of having IPMs with affordable insurance available for consumers to use. The reasonable rate obtained can probably only be obtained by spreading the cost of premiums over as large a membership base as possible. I can't believe what I have been reading tho

Re: "natural" induction

In a message dated 9/27/01 5:31:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Being currently in the USA I am not sure what PET stands for. However, I am quite familiar with OOH (out of hospital) induction techniques: unless otherwise contraindicated I think se

Fwd: Research Critique??

Thanks for the reply, as I said I had only read the abstract. The midwife I referred to (Audrey) had not participated in the study but as I tried to write, in the public radio talk session, and she was not defending the dstudy but critiquing it! Sorry to be confusing. IN facxt she wrote he

Re: Research Critique??

Dear Denise and List: This study is generating considerable debate here in Seattle both within and without the midwifery community especially since it was done right here at the University of Washington (it was all over the local TV news). We were all expecting the results re augmented and indu