On 13 Oct 2002 at 6:22, William Robb wrote:
So it's costing you enough money to gripe about, but not enough
to act on.
That's fair.
I've noticed too that it's most often the bystanders that shout from the side-
lines just write it off, take a loss on it :-(
Anyone care to offer personal
depends on who you ask: anywhere between 6 and 60.
mishka.
- Original Message -
From: Kevin Waterson
Subject: MF MegaPixels
How many Mega Pixels would Digital need to be
to be equivalent to Medium Format?
- Original Message -
From: Rob Studdert
Subject: Re: Cameron's Pentax Comments
On 13 Oct 2002 at 6:22, William Robb wrote:
So it's costing you enough money to gripe about, but not
enough
to act on.
That's fair.
I've noticed too that it's most often the bystanders that
shout
On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, William Robb wrote:
I wonder how many megabytes it would take to compete with a
20x24 negative.
There are only a handful of those cameras in existence, less
than a dozen I am sure, and I think closer to a half dozen.
According to an article I read in Camera Arts,
- Original Message -
From: gfen
Subject: Re: digital - a story
Really? I didn't know their centerfolds were LF, that's kinda
neat.. I'd
actually really like to look at some for, uhm, technical
reasons now, but
I don't think that answer wouldflyu.
Getting a bit OT, but I think it
On 13 Oct 2002 at 8:13, William Robb wrote:
At the risk of being tiresome, if not having a large format rig
was costing you money, you'd buy one, and would accept that
Pentax doesn't support it, because they never have supported it.
Why is a digital SLR any different?
Because it should only
On Sun, 13 Oct 2002 06:34:39 -0600, you wrote:
How many Mega Pixels would Digital need to be
to be equivalent to Medium Format?
Sinar thinks 22 mp is enough to challenge 6x4.5 film format.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0209/02090601sinar22mp.asp
Pentax please take note.
--
John Mustarde
October 13th entry:
http://www.macads.co.uk/snaps/misc/digitaldiary.html
includes a simple exhibit of a resolution test using screen grabs
displayed in Photoshop to illustrate the resolving power (or not) of
digital. This would equally apply to a Pentax DSLR of 6 MP variety :-)
Of those I'm actually aware of let's see: One uses Nikon, two use Canon,
one uses
Olympus, one uses a Konica (TC3). Two (besides me), actually use
Pentax, one an old
KX the other an SF1. This is hardly a representative sample. Since Canon
seems to have
the largest market share I'd say
- Original Message -
From: Rob Studdert
Subject: Re: Cameron's Pentax Comments
On 13 Oct 2002 at 8:13, William Robb wrote:
At the risk of being tiresome, if not having a large format
rig
was costing you money, you'd buy one, and would accept that
Pentax doesn't support it,
Actually Pentax probably does watch this list, after all at one time they
did sponsor it. It's an interesting way to get market feed back. Wether
they do anything about it or not is another thing.
At 06:20 AM 10/13/2002 -0400, you wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Tim S Kemp [EMAIL
As to advertising, Hell back in the 60's 70's and early 80's pentax
owned a very large share of the SLR market. Even then marketing and support
hoovered as compared to other manufactures, in the US at least.
At 10:10 AM 10/13/2002 +0100, you wrote:
Peter Alling wrote:
My prediction, Pentax
Hell I've got that now. (Based on some of the art I've seen, and the
reviews it gets
this has posibilities).
At 09:56 AM 10/13/2002 -0400, you wrote:
Better yet -- as undeveloped BW rolls in canisters...
Mishka
- Original Message -
From: Bob Rapp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL
Pentax's not having a DSLR has nothing to do with technical issues. It has
to do with where they see their company in the market, and which customers
they choose to go after. Folks here seem to think that something can be
done, technically, then it will be done, but there is no reason to think
It is interesting that neither Nikon or Canon produced new lens mounts
for Digital. But Canon did produce a new lens mount when they went to
Auto-Focus.
This in spite of drawbacks inherent in using a smaller than full frame 35mm
sensor
with 35mm lenses. (Just food for thought).
At 12:23 AM
Well, I hope you 3 kept dry, it was pelting down most of the day. Photos
were brilliant.
Thanks Malc. Actually the sun broke through in Oxfordshire about 9am and
I knew it was heading east so we set off in high hopes. Same thing in
London by 12.
I was *that* close to cancelling, as I didn't
Right,
Question for all you out there who do any sort of sky/night time photography.
Is there any rule of thumb for shooting Auroras.
Open the shutter and count to 10 - 20? 30? Set the camera on auto and let
it sit and expose for a few minutes?
I suspect it's all just trial and error but I'd
On 13 Oct 2002 at 8:56, William Robb wrote:
If, and this is a big if, Pentax chooses to market a DSLR (and I
don't think they will), it will be based on the MZ-5 chassis,
and will not have pro specifications.
If that happens, there won't be any cheering from the peanut
gallery, there will
Better yet -- as undeveloped BW rolls in canisters...
Mishka
- Original Message -
From: Bob Rapp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: A must read! (WAS Re: Digital-only labs)
Imagine a digital gallery where the photographers
On sale means in stock in BH. Using that definition give me a projected
date, and I'll suggest a wager.
BR
- Original Message -
From: tom [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hmmm. On sale is open to interpretation.
I'm saying officially announced before the first day of summer 2003.
What are you
- Original Message -
From: Rob Studdert
Subject: Re: Cameron's Pentax Comments
On 13 Oct 2002 at 8:56, William Robb wrote:
If, and this is a big if, Pentax chooses to market a DSLR
(and I
don't think they will), it will be based on the MZ-5
chassis,
and will not have pro
William Robb wrote:
The convention in DSLR development is geared to the user of pro
oriented equipment. This is why the digital SLR bodies have been
based on pro oriented 35mm camera bodies.
Pentax doesn't have a history of pro support, and has no history
at all in the pro 35mm body
It all depends on the viewing distance. From 10 meters not many.
BR
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I wonder how many megabytes it would take to compete with a 20x24
negative.
- Original Message -
From: Wendy Beard
Subject: Shooting Auroras
Right,
Question for all you out there who do any sort of sky/night
time photography.
Is there any rule of thumb for shooting Auroras.
Open the shutter and count to 10 - 20? 30? Set the camera on
auto and let
it sit
This site has a chart! (Some interesting commentary as well).
I've never tried this since I live in a very light polluted area
and most of my traveling has been mostly in Southerly directions.
(At least those times I've gone into less populated places).
Hi Wendy,
Wow, a question regarding film! You can just put the camera on auto
(LX good choice), or try this, a little guide I made:
ASAf stopExposure time
100 1.4 1/4`s
Adjust as needed. I`ve had great results with it.
Steve Larson
Redondo Beach,
Couldn't think what to snip, so I cut the lot.
Any internet discussion group is full of enthusiasts about the topic, I like
driving, all the guys on the driving groups are amazingly into driving, and
yes, sometimes they have wish lists too!
I have an MZ50, it's my first Pentax, my last decent
I don't have a webpage but I can send you some pictures tomorrow. How
big may the files be? Best quality is ca. 1.8MB.
Any size you like, I have DSL and a big mailbox, not sure if there is a max
message size... just looking at my inbox and theres a 6.5 meg attachment on
one of them. so should
It is interesting that neither Nikon or Canon produced new lens mounts
for Digital. But Canon did produce a new lens mount when they went to
Auto-Focus.
This in spite of drawbacks inherent in using a smaller than full frame
35mm
sensor
with 35mm lenses. (Just food for thought).
I think
There was once a question put to Playboy - one photo enthusiast reader asked if they
used soft filters. The answer: no, we use very soft girls.
All the best!
Raimo
Personal photography homepage at http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho
-Alkuperäinen viesti-
Lähettäjä: William Robb [EMAIL
If, and this is a big if, Pentax chooses to market a DSLR (and I
don't think they will), it will be based on the MZ-5 chassis,
and will not have pro specifications.
Observation here. Pentax have built the 230, 330 and 430 optio on the same
operating system and display, so the electronics
BlankJust heard, the next swap meet is on the first Saturday in November at the
Cameron Centre near Lougheed Mall, Burnaby BC.
James
correct exposure time for auroras varies a lot with the intensity of the
light.
William Robb suggested 1+ compensation and print film.
Print film is probably a good idea because of its wider latitude.
In my limited experience, setting exposure compensation to -2 worked fine,
but that was there
- Original Message -
From: Raimo Korhonen
Subject: Vs: digital - a story
There was once a question put to Playboy - one photo
enthusiast reader asked if they used soft filters. The answer:
no, we use very soft girls.
And perhaps not the sharpest lens.
William Robb
Bruce Rubenstein wrote:
Pentax's not having a DSLR has nothing to do with technical issues. It has
to do with where they see their company in the market, and which customers
they choose to go after. Folks here seem to think that something can be
done, technically, then it will be done, but
The computer trade says: 'Data doesn't exist unless it exists in two separate
locations.'
I'm into film but I subsequently use computers for my images, not to mention my music
making and production, finances, work etc. etc. I have multiple hard disks and those
disks are partitioned but that
Hi;
My computer is set up to shut the hard drives off after a few
minutes of inactivity.
Is this a good thing, or should they run all the time?
Thanks
William Robb
Hi Bill,
The only thing it is going to hurt if left on is the bearings. My machine
is never shut down, and I haven`t had a bearing failure yet, but HD`s
are replaced with larger ones every once in a while. To me, it is
annoying to walk up to my computer and wait while the hard drive
is
On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Brad Dobo wrote:
This is not the DDML (Digital Distribution Mailing List) Guess what?
It's PDML, and I used to think it stood for Pentax Distribution
Mailing list.
Until you found out that it's the Pentax Discuss Mailing List. :)
On an unrelated note...
Personally,
I think, neither.
Keeping it ON 100% time is bad for it.
Turning it on and off every two minuts is MUCH worse.
Keeping it OFF 100% time doesn't damage it at all.
I guess there must be a balance -- like turning it off at night.
Best,
Mishka
- Original Message -
From: William Robb
And of course, removable disks sitting on the shelf never have any
problems??
Generally no, as they have not been 'burned' or dyes altered yet.
My experience is that all of these approaches work, if you understand the
medium
and work with it accordingly.
My experience around
Surge protectors are fine, I use them, but more like additional power
outlets. Do you know why these companies have insurance or guarantees of
various sums? Because they rarely happen. Any *real* power surge, be it a
power company failure or due to a lightning strike, do you know what
happens?
Hey,
It seems that those who replied to my email only argued one point. That Big
Brother is watching.
Now, Pentax does not make competing flagship SLRs like Nikon and Canon. Why
on earth do some here think they will all of a sudden put out a DSLR that
competes?
Some in this group have stated that they would pass on the first generation
Pentax DSLR. If Big Brother is watching, what do you think will happen?
They make their own first generation DSLR, few buy it, the rest waiting for
the second generation. Do we expect that Pentax should suffer huge
After touring the old high school with some of my fellow classmates - we
really have not changed too much - I decided to go to the Metropolitan
Museum of Art before heading home. Along with their numerous halls with
some outstanding art, they are having an exhibit of Richard Avedon's
Many in this group are collectors (and users) of older Pentax equipment
(which I indeed find really quite cool). In fact, if Big Brother is
watching us, they might notice what I notice, some do not buy, or rarely
buy, new Pentax equipment. Look at the polls we have going on. I see
screwmount
On 13 Oct 2002 at 19:36, Brad Dobo wrote:
Hey,
It seems that those who replied to my email only argued one point. That Big
Brother is watching.
I don't know that BB is watching but Pentax used to watch the list, to the
point where it become too uncomfortable for them to host. No why it
Brad,
Reread my message again.
I have experienced a power surge which damaged my TV.
I don't live in the boonies or a 3rd world country, but a nice suburb of
Chicago.
I paid $160 to have the TV fixed, and
nothing for the computer because of the surge protector.
We were running both of these
On 13 Oct 2002 at 19:39, Brad Dobo wrote:
Some in this group have stated that they would pass on the first generation
Pentax DSLR. If Big Brother is watching, what do you think will happen? They
make their own first generation DSLR, few buy it, the rest waiting for the
second generation.
Anyone who is serious about photography, or a professional, uses (in here)
Pentax Medium Format. Big Brother is going to say, let's work on them.
Dispite the bickering we have had some members make the switch to other
companies to get the newer techologies that they either need, or want. Just
Bob, I don't need to re-read your message again, I got it all the first
time. I know of no one in my personal experience that I call my life, that
has every had such problems. I work and hang out with guys who are far more
advanced than me that think and see the same thing. You are one of the
Stranger things have happened (and have
in the past, pre-Dobo)
Yes like an alien spacecraft that happens to travel millions of light years
to Earth only to crash in Roswell New Mexico USA. Who is the only state
hung up on things like this? The U.S.A. Nevermind that 70% of the world is
water
The single largest Reality Check: No one wants to hear the true and are too
stubborn to change and too stubborn to concede a point to me. I know the
emails I have written are a waste, that's my reality check.
Brad Dobo
Servers are set to run all the time and many are never really switched off,
most of them have the same consumer drives you using. It only saves
electricty though which isn't much anyway but you do over work the drive
when you keep rebooting it often.
BTW I use western digital drives, a 6.4 to
They can when the head unit bounces and hits the platter when the surge
cause the tip to jump higher than normal
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: A must read! (WAS Re: Digital-only labs)
The disc
Ok, most of you (except those that put Brad Dobo on an ignore list) have
read my emails. Some are pure crap just for a laugh, and not just for me,
I'm not trying to stir trouble, but a laugh for everyone. I have said some
outlandish things. I do however have do some quite serious emails as
Back when I was in IT, surge arresters were a dime a dozen and seldom failed
to protect a computer in a lightning strike. Back then, I used
constant-voltage-transformers with input MOVs. The primary protection came
from the transformer as it provided isolation and automatically bucked
spikes. It
Feroze? Can I ask just one little thing? Not about your email contents, I
think they are fine. However, I do get the ever annoying 'sender wants a
read reciept' when you send the emails. Would it be too much to ask you to
turn that off? I haven't seen an comments from other members, so I
Forgot. Won't need this any more either.
Fujinon ES 135/4.5
$50.
Collin
(But I'm keeping my 105/4.5 ES!)
Brad,
You want to see some cool equipment and results - check out the P67II
or the 645NII. When you work with the equipment and then view an MF
slide through a loupe, it totally blows you away. Or when you have
something printed up to 8X10 or larger and start looking at the
captured detail -
Brad,
You're not alone. I get them too from Feroze. They piss me off and I
refuse to send the reply. My software asks and I always say no.
Bruce
Sunday, October 13, 2002, 5:33:45 PM, you wrote:
BD Feroze? Can I ask just one little thing? Not about your email contents, I
BD think they
Oops forgot about that one, its automatic when I send work mail. No you the
second one to ask me though-sorry. I don't know how to turn if off permantly
though. I've keep un-clicking it but every time I re-start OE its back
- Original Message -
From: Brad Dobo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
Sorry bruce, I found the option thingy that turns it off, should work fine
now, but I'm am using microsoft stuff, so if anyone still getting receipt
requests tell me
- Original Message -
From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Brad Dobo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002
Feroze,
Microsoft stuff can get annoying at times. Thanks for looking into
it. I have had a lot fewer problems with my mail client once I quit
using Outlook Express.
Bruce
Sunday, October 13, 2002, 5:48:08 PM, you wrote:
FK Sorry bruce, I found the option thingy that turns it off, should
Bruce,
So far its ok, what are the other options, what do you use. Bear in mind
that I have a 1.7G AMD XP, windows XP and 512MB ram and I don't want to
write MCSE to use it and don't want to upgrade my PC either
TIA
Feroze
- Original Message -
From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
It isn't that Olympus didn't get it, they did. The came out with a couple
of AF SLRs, realized how tight the competition was and how high the cost was
developing these things and opted out of the market. They decided to expand
their PS line (very successfully) and just keep making the same non AF
Thanks for all the replies to my question. It looks like the
concensus is to leave em running all the time when the computer
is on.
It also sounds like I am pretty lucky where I am. Power outages
or surges are a real rarity where I live.
Thanks again
William Robb
At 05:39 PM 10/13/2002 -0700, Bruce wrote:
You want to see some cool equipment and results - check out the P67II
or the 645NII. When you work with the equipment and then view an MF
slide through a loupe, it totally blows you away.
I'll second that. Took a roll of slides on the 67 in the
f1.4 is just a good starting point. f4 with 400ASA would come
out to a 1/2 second exposure with my table. Did you shoot
the LX on AP? How long do you think the exposure was?
I bet the LX nailed it though. Let us know what you get back.
Steve Larson
Redondo Beach, California
- Original
Bruce Dayton wrote:
I have had the best consistent luck so far with Kodak Portra NC. I have
had some good and bad luck with both Fuji and Agfa portrait films.
The bad times with Fuji were quite grainy pictures (35mm weeny format)
and the bad luck with Agfa was some real hot spots with
- Original Message -
From: Wendy Beard
Subject: Re: Shooting Auroras
That's what I thought.(didn't think of compensation though)
Then my nerve
failed when the shutter seemed to have been open for an
eternity. I
switched it to B and counted to 10, then 20, then 30.
It wasn't a
Feroze,
Take a look at The Bat from www.ritlabs.com. I have run it on much
less powerful hardware than you have. The requirements are low, the
price is low and the handling is very similar to OE (I like the
interface, just not all the problems).
Bruce
Sunday, October 13, 2002, 6:01:59 PM,
Should we lie and say we buy new Pentax cameras? The old ones are
better. And for the most part, ditto the lenses. Perhaps Pentax will
accept that as a challenge to get their product line moving. If not, to
hell with them.
Paul Stenquist
Who has never bought anything new from Pentax but owns
Thanks I'll go have a look
- Original Message -
From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Feroze Kistan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 3:19 AM
Subject: Re[6]: Dumb computer question
Feroze,
Take a look at The Bat from www.ritlabs.com. I have run it on much
less
Hey Bruce,
I have been using Fuji NPS, NPH and Kodak Portra 160NC for my portraits (friends,
family, my baby, etc.). In the summer of 2001 I was really hooked on NPS. My lab was
printing it beautifully(Kodak Royal paper-equipment? probably Fuji). This past spring,
it seemed as though skin
Hey Bruce,
I have been using Fuji NPS, NPH and Kodak Portra 160NC for my portraits (friends,
family, my baby, etc.). In the summer of 2001 I was really hooked on NPS. My lab was
printing it beautifully(Kodak Royal paper-equipment? probably Fuji). This past spring,
it seemed as though skin
I am on the side that does not consider surges or spikes rare, nor do I
think they only happen on power lines. I lost 3 48 port Cisco Switches, 5
Nortell Hubs, and 1 Cisco 48 port line card to a surge that went through
the network wiring. Two weeks ago I had a surge that destroyed one of my
Yes Bob, this happens a _lot_! I probably shut down and restart on
average three times a week, sometimes more. However, I feel it is more
to do with the bloated software we have to use, together with all the
band-aid patches that MS have had to put together to deal with various
security
I think Rob makes a good point, and if Pentax are late to the market I
am sure they will pick the eyes out of competitive products. In
addition, I would be reasonably certain that the experience gained in
making the Optio series will stand them in good stead when making a
DSLR, as much of
At 11:18 AM -0400 10/13/02, Wendy Beard wrote:
Right,
Question for all you out there who do any sort of sky/night time photography.
Is there any rule of thumb for shooting Auroras.
Open the shutter and count to 10 - 20? 30? Set the camera on auto
and let it sit and expose for a few minutes?
I
It's a combination of everything Brad. You only need one line of code in one
program to not like another program trying to access a part of the memory
stack, or any other infinite combinations of things to make a PC or Mac s**t
itself. You're a geek, you know that. Hardware certainly plays its
Advertise hell, they should actually get some product into stores as well.
At 07:56 PM 10/13/2002 -0400, you wrote:
Anyone who is serious about photography, or a professional, uses (in here)
Pentax Medium Format. Big Brother is going to say, let's work on them.
Dispite the bickering we have
I hear that Herb. I just e-mailed a blurb on my set-up, which is not that
different from yours really (apart from you running double the RAM). I have
kept my machines stable by avoiding unnecessary third party software
installations and using good to very good quality components. Occasionally I
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I had been making exposures ranging from 5 - 20 seconds with 400
speed film and F2.8 lenses and not getting enough light. Lately I've
been doing 30s. The film is still in the freezer so I don't know how
successful these latest attempts have
AFAIK, the only AF 35mm SLR with interchangeable lenses that Olympus
produced was the OM-77, and that was a hunkajunk, poorly built and poorly
spec'd. I don't disagree with what you say, but my main point was that
companies who don't follow the major movements of the market lose
visibility in
- Original Message -
From: Chris Brogden 'Subject: Re: Digital thoughts
AFAIK, the only AF 35mm SLR with interchangeable lenses that
Olympus
produced was the OM-77,
OM-88??
And who remembers the T-80?
William Robb
On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, William Robb wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Chris Brogden 'Subject: Re: Digital thoughts
AFAIK, the only AF 35mm SLR with interchangeable lenses that
Olympus
produced was the OM-77,
OM-88??
And who remembers the T-80?
William Robb
I didn't know about
That's very true. The only new piece of equipment that's tempted me in a long
time was the Nikon FM3a. If Pentax built an updated MX around that
electromechanical
shutter and sold it for the same price as the Nikon I'd snap one up
immediately. I'll
bet a lot of others would as well.
At
Sorry you feel that way Brad some of us remember the switch over. Why
sponser a group
if you're going to ignore it. Why stop watching once it's self
supporting. Hell
I have a friend who's job was to search the Internet for information about
his company
and the competition. This is easier
I think I should apologize to Aaron for damaging the Brotherhood Ninjas
before I
returned them, those Pentax agents really could use some lessons in subtlety.
(and just as an aside, Brad could use a spell checker, like I should talk).
At 06:17 PM 10/13/2002 -0400, you wrote:
Hahaha...you guys
Spinning them up and down tends to wear out the bearings.
At 01:02 PM 10/13/2002 -0600, you wrote:
Hi;
My computer is set up to shut the hard drives off after a few
minutes of inactivity.
Is this a good thing, or should they run all the time?
Thanks
William Robb
i'm taking this offline.
Herb...
- Original Message -
From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: Dumb computer question
Spinning them up and down tends to wear out the bearings.
Spinning continuosly tends to wear out bearings also.
Jeff.
True but less so than cycling them.
At 11:59 PM 10/13/2002 -0400, you wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: Dumb computer question
Spinning them up and down tends to wear out the
- Original Message -
From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: Reality Check Part 4
Advertise hell, they should actually get some product into stores as well.
How true Peter, that is one of my biggest gripes about
My Pentax gear is selling fairly fast. More info and photos at:
http://www.photolin.com/forsale/forsale.htm
Thanks,
--
John Mustarde
www.photolin.com
On 13 Oct 2002 at 23:59, Jeff wrote:
Spinning continuosly tends to wear out bearings also.
Jeff,
The better drives now have fluid bearings, the fluid is a cushion of air, they
suffer virtually no wear and are extremely robust WRT shock. Also spinning
drive up and down leads to thermal
- Original Message -
From: Shaun Canning [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 11:19 PM
Subject: RE: Dumb computer question
It's a combination of everything Brad. You only need one line of code in
one
program to not like another program trying to
OM-88??
And who remembers the T-80?
Isn't that a type of tank?
William Robb
On Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:31:57 -0400, you wrote:
On sale means in stock in BH. Using that definition give me a projected
date, and I'll suggest a wager.
BR
Hell, if that's the criteria, neither the D100 nor the D60 nor the S2
are on sale right now, even though they all were introduced months
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