Max quotes
> Coase, in "The Nature of the Firm." (1937, Economica):
> "Those who object to economic planning on the grounds
> that the problem is solved by price movements can be
> answered by pointing out that there is planning within
> our economic system which is quite different from the
> indiv
Coase, in "The Nature of the Firm." (1937, Economica)
-Original Message-
From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Devine,
James
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 6:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Back to slavery
Max, who said the quote in the first
Max, who said the quote in the first paragraph?
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> "Those who object to economic planning on the grounds
> that the problem is solved by price movements can be
> answered by pointing out that there is pla
"Those who object to economic planning on the grounds
that the problem is solved by price movements can be
answered by pointing out that there is planning within
our economic system which is quite different from the
individual planning mentioned above [individuals who
"exercise foresight and choice
Kenneth Campbell writes:
>> But, more respectfully, what is the value you provide outside the
>> parametres for business collection upon failure (and how is that
>> different than Repo Men)?
>>
>> Aren't bankruptcy lawyers merely administrators in a system? That is, no
>> productive value? Merely
Eric Nilsson wrote:
>
> RE
> Jim's:
> > I'm going to have nightmares about a TV show "John Pareto, Economist."
>
> I think the life (and economic theories) of Veblen would make a wonderful TV
> series. Perhaps David Duchovny could star in the series.
>
One would want also to include his theories o
Scott Nearing would make an excellent television show as well. He was an
activist, kicked out of academia and the communist party. Lived a very
interesting life. Did heavy physical labor until he was 99.
Alexander Gershenkron lived a very interesting life, in the midst of the
Soviet and Nazi upr
RE
Jim's:
> I'm going to have nightmares about a TV show "John Pareto, Economist."
I think the life (and economic theories) of Veblen would make a wonderful TV
series. Perhaps David Duchovny could star in the series.
Eric
http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Perelman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 11:17 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery
>
>
> Jim, you might be wrong. We have a Nobelist in the dock
Jim, you might be wrong. We have a Nobelist in the dock right now? What
about the Harvard-Russian scandal? One of our Chico students, Khoshigian
(sp?) has been at the center of international intrigue. Ken Lay, for
God's sake. I think that we need a cable channel for economics.
On Wed, Jul 16,
David Shemano wrote:
>I am corporate bankruptcy attorney, which is primarily
>transactional ...
We need those a fair bit today, no? ...
But, more respectfully, what is the value you provide outside the
parametres for business collection upon failure (and how is that
different than Repo Men)?
Ar
Justin writes:
>> This isn't to say that the incentive Michael talks
>> about doesn't exist. Btw, David, are you a litigator
>> or a transactional lawyer?
I am corporate bankruptcy attorney, which is primarily transactional but involves
litigation in that Bankruptcy Court approval is required f
Justin asks:
>> This isn't to say that the incentive Michael talks
>> about doesn't exist. Btw, David, are you a litigator
>> or a transactional lawyer?
I am a corporate bankruptcy lawyer, which is primarily transactional, but involves
litigation in the sense that Bankruptcy Court approval is re
Ken writes:
However, lawyers are just more sensitive to the criticism since they are
on TV more. Perry Mason never did have a kindred soul from economics on
TV. "Your honor, I contend the witness inflated the GDP numbers to cover
up the failure of the auto industry and the increase in transaction
c
Jim wrote:
>That said, I don't think lawyers are totally unproductive;
I agree. The collision of individual interests has to be resolved in
some manner. No matter the system.
There will be costs.
The current system, commercially, is based on getting a commercial
lawyer to check-off your deal. O
--- "trashing lawyers is a major indoor
> sport in the US but ignores those who are the heroes
> of John Grisham books (while often forgetting the
> truly evil corporate lawyers).
Like me? ;->
As long as there are
> laws and conflicts, people will need lawyers. On the
> other hand, lawyers often
--- "David S. Shemano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Perelman writes:
>
> >> Do lawyers really limit transactions costs. I
> thought that they maximized
> >> billable hours.
>
> If we didn't add value, why would we be hired?
>
> David Shemano
Well, cynically, lots of folks say we write the
:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 9:45 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery
>
>
> Michael Perelman writes:
>
> >> Do lawyers really limit transactions costs. I thought that
> they maximized
> >> billable hours.
>
> If we didn't add value, why would we be hired?
>
> David Shemano
>
David Shemano wrote:
>If we didn't add value, why would we be hired?
I think I answered that already.
Mafia.
Ken.
--
... the fear of facing the world, including its works of
literature, without an intellectual narcotic at hand.
-- Frederick Crews
Michael Perelman writes:
>> Do lawyers really limit transactions costs. I thought that they maximized
>> billable hours.
If we didn't add value, why would we be hired?
David Shemano
I wrote:
> > transactions costs are only important if you're
> > raised as the kind of NC economist with an extremely
> > naive view of markets (i.e., a Walrasian).
JKS writes:
> ??!!! Huh? Wha? Where did that come from? So, are you
> saying that if we are Marxists or Institutionalists or
> Aus
--- "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave S. asks why transactions costs are so
> important.
>
> transactions costs are only important if you're
> raised as the kind of NC economist with an extremely
> naive view of markets (i.e., a Walrasian).
>
> Jim
>
??!!! Huh? Wha? Where did that
- Original Message -
From: "Paul Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> But a more fundamental issue relates to the Coase theorum itself -
> - that "if there are NO Transaction Costs, the distribution of
> property rights does not matter for the efficiency (pareto optimality)
> of the market so
Date sent: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:19:50 -0700
Send reply to: PEN-L list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "David S. Shemano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
snip
Dave S. asks why transactions costs are so important.
transactions costs are only important if you're raised as the kind of NC economist
with an extremely naive view of markets (i.e., a Walrasian).
Jim
- Original Message -
From: "Kenneth Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Michael wrote:
>
> >Do lawyers really limit transactions costs. I thought that
> >they maximized billable hours.
>
> They _do_ limit transaction costs... if you count resultant contractual
> law suits as part of transact
Michael wrote:
>Do lawyers really limit transactions costs. I thought that
>they maximized billable hours.
They _do_ limit transaction costs... if you count resultant contractual
law suits as part of transaction costs.
It's a kind of mafia protection racket... "Let me vet your contract, so
that
Williamson et al call themeselves the "new" institutionalists to
distinguish themselves from Commons et al. Commons did say that the
transaction was the proper unit of analysis.
On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 07:06:46PM -0700, Devine, James wrote:
> Isn't what John Commons did a form of TCE?
>
> Ian
>
>
Do lawyers really limit transactions costs. I thought that they maximized
billable hours.
On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 07:19:50PM -0700, David S. Shemano wrote:
> I guess I am asking a much more naive question. Why is this an issue at all to
> anybody? I mean, is there anybody who disputes that tran
lls it "opportunism." I don't see this as very useful
> to capitalist management except as a source of rhetoric.
>
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> &g
Jim Devine writes:
>> I don't think it suggests a critique of NC economics (except maybe for the fact
>> that it
>> took so long for NC economics to accept the idea of transactions costs).
>>
>> The significance for NC economics is that it means that there are many places where
>> the pure market
Isn't what John Commons did a form of TCE?
Ian
---
yeah, but his transactions cost economics was more sophisticated than that of the
Chicago school (at least according to Bill Tabb, whose book I'm relying on here).
Jim
- Original Message -
From: "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I don't think it suggests a critique of NC economics (except maybe for the
fact that it took so long for NC economics to accept the idea of
transactions costs).
The significance for NC economics is that it means that there are
Max Sawicky writes:
>
> >> Coincidently I'm reading Oliver Williamson at the moment,
> >> whose existence and inspired lit debunks your assertion.
> >>
> >> Transactions costs can make hierarchy (the firm) more economical
> >> than market exchange.
David Shemano writes:
> I am not sure I unders
Max Sawicky writes:
>> Coincidently I'm reading Oliver Williamson at the moment,
>> whose existence and inspired lit debunks your assertion.
>>
>> Transactions costs can make hierarchy (the firm) more economical
>> than market exchange.
I am not sure I understand the significance of this. If I w
p; http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> -Original Message-
> From: Max B. Sawicky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:34 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery
>
>
> Coincidently I'm reading Oliver Williamson at
ices and
which are determined by other prices.
Regards
Jurriaan
- Original Message -
From: "Eubulides" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery
> - Original Message -
> From:
Right, thanks, serves me right for not looking things
up, and for multitasking while doing a due diligence
(boring), but they were rich bastards too. jks
--- Carrol Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> andie nachgeborenen wrote:
> >
> > If you recall, the Thirty had him condemned in a
> show
> >
I wrote:
> >Oliver Williamson is not quite mainstream; his stuff doesn't appear
> >in standard textbooks, which to my mind represent the codification
> >of NC ideology. But more importantly, my assertion was that the NC
> >_wants_ everything to be an exchange. The fact that hierarchy is
> >needed i
Devine, James wrote:
Oliver Williamson is not quite mainstream; his stuff doesn't appear
in standard textbooks, which to my mind represent the codification
of NC ideology. But more importantly, my assertion was that the NC
_wants_ everything to be an exchange. The fact that hierarchy is
needed is
andie nachgeborenen wrote:
>
> If you recall, the Thirty had him condemned in a show
> trial, and executed for subverting the youth and
> impiety . . . . jks
>
Wow! You're asleep today. He was tried _after_ the restoration of the
Democracy, and his friendship with the 30 (particularly with Critias
- Original Message -
From: "andie nachgeborenen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery
> You mean the fees of the sophists?
=
Of course.
t; -Original Message-
> From: Max B. Sawicky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:34 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery
>
>
> Coincidently I'm reading Oliver Williamson at the moment,
> whose existence and ins
Coincidently I'm reading Oliver Williamson at the moment,
whose existence and inspired lit debunks your assertion.
Transactions costs can make hierarchy (the firm) more economical
than market exchange.
mbs
I don't know if this is a joke, but Marx's CAPITAL would give more guidance
to managers
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
> -Original Message-
> From: andie nachgeborenen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 1:22 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery
>
>
> No
You mean the fees of the sophists? The Thirty were a
bunch of rich pigs. They had slaves and land, not
fees. jks
--- Eubulides <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: "andie nachgeborenen"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
> > If you recall, the Thirty had him condemned in a
>
Message-
> > From: andie nachgeborenen
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:58 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery
> >
> >
> > Hey, I recently saw a mgt book called something
> like,
&
u.edu/~jdevine
> -Original Message-
> From: andie nachgeborenen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:58 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery
>
>
> Hey, I recently saw a mgt book called something like,
> Management
- Original Message -
From: "andie nachgeborenen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> If you recall, the Thirty had him condemned in a show
> trial, and executed for subverting the youth and
> impiety . . . . jks
>
==
He was driving down their fees...
If you recall, the Thirty had him condemned in a show
trial, and executed for subverting the youth and
impiety . . . . jks
--- Carrol Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> andie nachgeborenen wrote:
> >
> > Sophists, Socrates would say. He wouldn't take
> money
> > for doing philosophy . . . .
> >
>
>
Hey, I recently saw a mgt book called something like,
Management Secrets of Karl Marx! (Or, Who Moved My
Surplus Value?) It did NOT include advice to the boss
to fire himself, vest ownership and control in the
workers, and become a free producer engaged in
productive but non-value-producing activi
andie nachgeborenen wrote:
>
> Sophists, Socrates would say. He wouldn't take money
> for doing philosophy . . . .
>
A pampered lapdog of the filthy rich doesn't need to charge for
anything.
Carrol
- Original Message -
From: "Jurriaan Bendien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> In Holland it is sometimes trendy in management circles to hire
professional
> philosophers as consultants - philosophy provides freedom for critical
> thought, hence a philosopher might identify or reframe problems in a
Sophists, Socrates would say. He wouldn't take money
for doing philosophy . . . .
jks
--- Jurriaan Bendien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In Holland it is sometimes trendy in management
> circles to hire professional
> philosophers as consultants - philosophy provides
> freedom for critical
> thoug
Hope you are OK ? Anything I can do, just ask.
J.
- Original Message -
From: "Devine, James" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery
> My writing is totally incoherent. H
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] &
> http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andie nachgeborenen
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:48 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
In Holland it is sometimes trendy in management circles to hire professional
philosophers as consultants - philosophy provides freedom for critical
thought, hence a philosopher might identify or reframe problems in a way
which a more narrow-minded business approach might fail to do, through a
cours
-Original Message-
> From: Devine, James
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:59 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Back to slavery
>
>
>
>
> Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
>
&g
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:48 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [PEN-L] Back to slavery
>
>
> From the Tigertown e-news
>
> Ancient Athens provides model for contemporary
> workplace
> Classical history scholars may not seem the mo
>From the Tigertown e-news
Ancient Athens provides model for contemporary
workplace
Classical history scholars may not seem the most
likely candidates to write a book on the modern
workplace, yet Princeton Professor Josiah Ober and
co-author Brook Manville have done just that --
demonstrating that
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