Title: RE: [PEN-L] Stiglitz on central banks
Well, part of the problem right now is
that
indeed labor productivity is continuing to rise
at a very high rate, so high that although GDP
is rising at a not-unrespectable rate, employment
is falling.
Barkley Rosser
- Original Message -
Title: RE: [PEN-L] Stiglitz on central banks
Stiglitz writes:
During America's growth boom in the 1990s, the Clinton administration
believed that it was worth the risk of pushing the unemployment rate
lower, especially when the social gains - declining welfare roles, reduced
violence - were
Devine, James wrote:
there's another story here, one that I believe that pen-l alumnus
Brad deLong tells, i.e., that Alan Greenspan was willing to take the
risk of lower unemployment rates (perhaps because he didn't want to
pop the growing Wall Street bubble after 1995 or so). But Stiglitz
gives
- Original Message -
From: Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Another odd thing about Stiggy's argument is that he implicitly buys
the crowding out argument, which liberal Keynesians aren't supposed
to do.
Doug
==
Is acceptance of the crowding out argument a litmus test
Ian Murray wrote:
Is acceptance of the crowding out argument a litmus test for econowonks in
DC now?
Maybe, but Stiggy lives on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. I think
he's motivated more by partisanship - Dems good, Reps bad. Dems
raised taxes in '93, Reps cut taxes in 2001, 2002, and 2003.
- Original Message -
From: Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Stiglitz on central banks
Ian Murray wrote:
Is acceptance of the crowding out argument a litmus test for econowonks
in
DC now?
Maybe, but
PEN-L list [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Ian Murray wrote:
Is acceptance of the crowding out argument a litmus test for econowonks
in
DC now?
Maybe, but Stiggy lives on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. I think
he's motivated more by partisanship - Dems good, Reps bad. Dems
raised taxes in '93,
Ian Murray wrote:
Is acceptance of the crowding out argument a litmus test for econowonks in
DC now?
Maybe, but Stiggy lives on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. I think
he's motivated more by partisanship - Dems good, Reps bad. Dems
raised taxes in '93, Reps cut taxes in 2001, 2002, and 2003.
Title: RE: [PEN-L] Stiglitz on central banks
Brad DeLong writes:
Liberal Keynesians buy the crowding out argument under two sets
of circumstances: (i) if the economy is at full employment, and (ii)
if the central bank has a target unemployment rate, and responds to
plans for fiscal
On Mon, 03 Mar 2003, Eugene Coyle wrote:
But for tax purposes, corporations (and individuals)
keep a different
set of books, using the fastest allowable
depreciation
rate. Who cares
about the true rate?
Neoclassical economists, but then again, who gives a
fuck what they think?
dd
Aren't depreciation rates set by legislation?
===
I have a question regarding the above. If the IRS does not determine the *true*
depreciation rate, who does? Is this yet another example of 'the market'
instantiating Keynes' beauty contest in a different context?
Ian
The 'true' rate is an economic concept, estimated
with hairy models, flaky data, and fuzzy math.
Depreciation rules in the tax code are among the
most complicated elements.
Bill Vickrey, if not others, used to say
every rule violates a principle.
mbs
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL
- Original Message -
From: Max B. Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:48 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:35253] RE: Stiglitz on Dubya's tax plan
The 'true' rate is an economic concept, estimated
with hairy models, flaky data, and fuzzy math
Max B. Sawicky wrote:
The 'true' rate is an economic concept, estimated
with hairy models, flaky data, and fuzzy math.
It's also an economic concept in very poor
epistemological standing, since it relies on being able
to determine how much of the replacement cost of a
capital item reflects
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 11:09 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:35264] Re: RE: Stiglitz on Dubya's tax plan
Max B. Sawicky wrote:
The 'true' rate is an economic concept, estimated
with hairy models, flaky data, and fuzzy
But for tax purposes, corporations (and individuals) keep a different
set of books, using the fastest allowable depreciation rate. Who cares
about the true rate? For the shareholder books, a different rate -- a
slower rate -- is often used. A fast rate minimizes taxes and a slow
rate
- Original Message -
From: Eugene Coyle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 11:24 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:35266] Re: Re: RE: Stiglitz on Dubya's tax plan
But for tax purposes, corporations (and individuals) keep a different
set of books, using the fastest
the 90's represented a period of very high growth for the US. this was the result of the gulf war. another war with full control of oil will bring more riches for the US. war is very good for the US and the american bourgeoisie would be very stupid to forfiet such a golden opportunity-they need
So
is the Baker Institure pro or anti-war?
-Original Message-From: e. ahmet tonak
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002
4:35 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject:
[PEN-L:32581] Stiglitz and the Baker Institute
connection...One of my students
emailed me
Brown, Martin - ARP (NIH/NCI) wrote:
So is the Baker Institure pro or anti-war?
Very pro-war. Here is the coverage from Sunday Herald (UK):
Sunday Herald - 06 October 2002
Official: US oil at the heart of Iraq crisis
By Neil Mackay
Oh,
that Baker!
-Original Message-From: e. ahmet tonak
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002
5:08 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject:
[PEN-L:32584] Re: RE: Stiglitz and the Baker Institute
connection...Brown, Martin - ARP (NIH/NCI)
wrote
- Original Message -
From: e. ahmet tonak [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:07 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:32584] Re: RE: Stiglitz and the Baker Institute
connection...
Brown, Martin - ARP (NIH/NCI) wrote:
So is the Baker Institure pro or anti-war
ORIGINAL:
1) Hari K: (i) I do not deny international connections - that is
precisely the
meaning of 'comprador'. (ii) As for domestic relations,Often the
comprador elements are linked to landed aristocratic/feudal estates
etc.; for instance. ...
2) Louis P: The problem in figuring
ORIGINAL: Hari writes: I suggest that the term [comprador bourgeoisie]
is still meaningful. [Even despite the increasingly 'narrow' stage on
which national capitalists can play in today's even more
inter-penetrated world]. It describes for instance the opponents of
Chavez in the recent tussles
Hari:
(i) I do not deny international connections - that is precisely the
meaning of 'comprador'.
(ii) As for domestic relatioons, sure these are important. Often the
comprador elements are linked to landed aristocratic/feudal estates
etc.; for instance. Naturally they have an 'interest in
In a message dated 8/21/02 6:39:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hari:
(i) I do not deny international connections - that is precisely the
meaning of 'comprador'.
(ii) As for domestic relatioons, sure these are important. Often the
comprador elements are linked to landed
- Original Message -
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 3:07 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:29587] Re: Re: Stiglitz
Ian's reference to the Bhagwati article was interesting. I agree
with
Bhagwati about TRIPS and appreciate his
Re::Stiglitz interview_Character of PRC by Ulhas Joglekar 20 August
2002 01:15 UTC
Hari Kumar: (1) It is true that the COMPRADOR capital was
expropriated:
ULHAS: What is comprador capital in contemporary capitalism? We know
productive capital, industrial capital etc. from their place
Title: RE: [PEN-L:29632] Re: Re: Stiglitz
what is the Scholastic Jubilee?
If Stiglitz is calling for scrapping the IMF maybe it's time to
revive Peter Dorman's suggestion of the Stochastic Jubilee; clearly
it would appeal to the more radical denizens of information
be a little
while in coming round to supporting this one ...
-Original Message-
From: Devine, James [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 20 August 2002 14:46
To: 'Ian Murray '; '[EMAIL PROTECTED] '
Subject: [PEN-L:29639] RE: Re: Re: Stiglitz
what is the Scholastic Jubilee
Title: RE: [PEN-L:29635] Re::Stiglitz interview_Character of PRC
Hari writes:
I suggest that the term [comprador bourgeoisie] is still meaningful. [Even despite the increasingly 'narrow' stage on which national capitalists can play in today's even more inter-penetrated world]. It describes
Ian asked what is the perfect vessel on leftist politics? She does not
yet exist, but it is the standard we use for judging others.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hari Kumar wrote:
I suggest that the term is still meaningful. [Even despite the
increasingly 'narrow' stage on which national capitalists can play in
today's even more inter-penetrated world]. It describes for instance
the opponents of Chavez in the recent tussles in Venezuela. ie. Those
I don't understand what is meant by describing China as postcapitalist. If
anything it seems to be post-communist objectively or post-socialist. It
is capitalist enough to join the WTO and to have special economic zones that
give special incentives for foreign investment capital including a
At 04:48 PM 08/19/2002 -0700, you wrote:
was not particularly impressed by Stiglitz. He stands out only
compared to the complete dolts at the IMF who are not only stupid but
obviously arrogant and blind to reality, completely brain-washed by
text-book economics and immune and unable to
Title: RE: [PEN-L:29613] Re: Stiglitz interview
Ken writes:
I don't understand what is meant by describing China as
postcapitalist...
The mode of production of the People's Republic was post-capitalist in the sense that it came after the Nationalist period, which exhibited a mixture
Title: RE: [PEN-L:29614] Re: Re: Stiglitz interview
Ken:
was not particularly impressed by Stiglitz. He stands out only
compared to the complete dolts at the IMF who are not only stupid but
obviously arrogant and blind to reality, completely brain-washed by
text-book economics
Ken wrote:
He seems no less a market-worshipper than
the others and certainly anti-Marxist ( ie.
his remarks about the Marxist regime in Ethiopia
--even though it certainly was no paradigm of
Marxism.)
Although I don't know about his remarks about the Marxist regime
in Ethiopia, I agree
Although I don't know about his remarks about the Marxist regime
in Ethiopia, I agree with the above, although I would have put it
differently. Moreover, I don't think he is such a bad person,
whatever that means. My appreciation of his speaking out against
the IMF comes from the credibility
Stiglitz is important for another reason. He seems to be close to
creating a consensus here.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 06:58:39PM -0400, Louis Proyect wrote:
Although I don't know about his remarks about the Marxist regime
in Ethiopia, I agree with the above, although I would have put it
Title: RE: [PEN-L:29621] Re: Re: Re: Stiglitz interview
Stiglitz is important for another reason. He seems to be close to
creating a consensus here.
nah, he's ugly and his mother dresses him funny.
;-)
JD
Title: RE: [PEN-L:29613] Re: Stiglitz interview
ORIGINAL MESSAGES:
1) Ken writes: I don't understand what is meant by describing China
as postcapitalist...
2) JD Replies: The mode of production of the People's Republic was
post-capitalist in the sense that it came after the Nationalist
period
Hari Kumar:
(1) IT si true that the COMPRADOR capital was expropriated:
What is comprador capital in contemporary capitalism? We know productive
capital, industrial capital etc. from their place in the accumulation
process. What do compradors do in the accumulation process today? Is the
term
advantage of this expertise. Now
that is just plain arrogant and stupid period even in terms of their own
agenda it seems to me.
Cheers, Ken Hanly
- Original Message -
From: joanna bujes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 3:19 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:29614] Re: Re
Ken, allow for the power of ideology. And in general it's strategically
important not to explain the enemy in terms of intelligence. I always
told my freshman comp students, if the idea you are attacking seems
incredibly stupid and easy to demolish, consider seriously that you
don't understand
I found JS's comments on the TRIPS provisions of the WTO rather
intriguing. It also seems more than one mainstreamer is starting
to see big problems with the BWI's:
On page 2 [ 127] of the following, Jagdish Bhagwati calls for the
removal of TRIPS from the WTO.
http://www.asil.org/ajil/wto8.pdf
Ian's reference to the Bhagwati article was interesting. I agree with
Bhagwati about TRIPS and appreciate his contribution, yet Bhagwati is far
less progressive than Stiglitz.
Some of us are quick to attack Stiglitz. Certainly he is an imperfect
vessel on leftist politics. Henry Liu's initial
Michael Perelman wrote:
Some of us are quick to attack Stiglitz. Certainly he is an imperfect
vessel on leftist politics. Henry Liu's initial post was useful in
reminding us about Stiglitz's limitations, but the fact that he has come
out from such a prominent position and gone so far call for
Yes. Both were at the seat of power -- or at least near it; and both
recanted. Neither would feel wholly confortable with the views found on
this list.
Of course, I feel much more kinship to Stiglitz -- quite a bit in fact --
than to McNamara. The point is we can take what we want from people
From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I want to strongly urge PEN-L'ers to listen to Henwood's interview with
Stiglitz. It was conducted at a very high level and touched all the
important points. My impression of Stiglitz was highly favorable ...
I don't know which is more surprising, Lou --
Title: RE: [PEN-L:29485] Stiglitz interview
Doug, I went to this page. Near Stiglitz, the download button works as advertised. But the button labeled streaming has a different show, including some fellow named Michael Perelman.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Devine, James wrote:
Doug, I went to this page. Near Stiglitz, the download button
works as advertised. But the button labeled streaming has a
different show, including some fellow named Michael Perelman.
Huh? I just clicked on it and I'm getting the Stiglitz show. Try this
direct link:
Title: RE: [PEN-L:29496] Re: RE: Stiglitz interview
that is strange. Now it works.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
-Original Message-
From: Doug Henwood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 11:57 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Greetings Economists,
Lou Proyect wrote Pen-L his urging to listen to the Stiglitz interview on
Henwood's radio broadcast. I listened and found it well worth the time
spent. I don't know if I feel as favorably toward Stiglitz as LP. But it
was interesting how fissures are showing up in the
Louis writes:
even though I believe he is way off the mark on the question of
export-based economies in places like Brazil.
Excellent point, and also valid for Argentina, whose exports are
dominated by 'primary products' that still suffer in global markets from
declining terms of trade a la
Doug,
I thank both you and Stiglitz for what you have done, not just
for this interview, but for a few other things too.
Best,
Sabri
On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Doug Henwood wrote:
I'm interviewing Joseph Stiglitz on my radio show in about 2 hours
(assuming he shows up). Anyone have any questions for him? I'll be in
email range only until about 4:15 NYC time, when I leave for the
studio.
Damn, I had a good question, but I was
Stiglitz:
In recent years, Brazil has created a vibrant democracy with a strong
economy. Differences of opinion exist, but on Brazil's key issues a broad
consensus prevails, one that includes all the major contenders in the
country's presidential election in October.
A reference to Lula's
Holy guacamole Michael, don't stop now! What were the real reasons?
- Original Message -
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 7:48 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:29328] Stiglitz
I am 40% through Stiglitz's new book. Not nearly as much as
This article is relevant to our debate on NC econ. in the sense that both
Stiglitz and Akerlof both had to go to the LDC's to discover that
something was amiss with NC econ.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL
CB: From Ricardo something was gotten for the fight. Marx quotes Benjamin
Franklin favoably in _Capital_. From the bourgeois economist Hobson and
others like, Lenin culled the kernel of his concept of imperialism. From
whathisname came creative destruction. From Eisenhower, who must have
known
Re: Stiglitz again
by Carl Remick
20 October 2001 22:58 UTC
Rebalancing priorities
By Joseph Stiglitz
... America has heralded globalization.
But it should now recognize that with globalization
comes interdependence, and with interdependence
comes the need for collective decision making
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Notice that Stiglitz seems far to the left of the Democratic
party. Has this
appeared in the US press?
Ha'aretz Editorial Op-Ed Friday, October 19, 2001
Cheshvan 2, 5762 Israel Time: 06:19 (GMT+2)
Rebalancing priorities
By Joseph Stiglitz
...
Yeah, Joe, but what about the World Bank?
Gene Coyle
Jim Devine wrote:
Have people seen the article by Stiglitz in the NEW REPUBLIC?
What I learned at the world economic crisis.
The Insider
By JOSEPH STIGLITZ
Issue date: 04.17.00
Post date: 04.06.00
Next week's meeting of
Sam Pawlett wrote:
Reuters ran a story today summarizing the findings of a recent World
Bank Study. (the annual development report?):
.. . .
" Despite the significant gains in development, the gap between the rich
and the poor is widening and if you look at many countries income
distribution is
I agree that several of Stiglitz' answers appear to represent a retreat
from his critique of the Washington Consensus. (I saw him debating
Dornbusch et al. in NY and he soft-pedaled his views a bit, although he
defended them when directly attacked.) I would not read too much into
his reluctance
Maybe I missed something, but this speech seems consistent with
the World Bank's traditional role as good cop to the IMF's bad
cop.
When Stiglitz says that "we do not have all the answers" he
may provide a rhetorical opening for alternatives. He also
acknowledges a number of critiques that
On 12 Dec 96 at 14:51, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 96-12-12 11:30:17 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Max B. Sawicky)
writes:
JS has been a big disappointment to we nouveau-classicals (I've
started my own school of thought, with an enrollment of one),
MS
would you like some
Good question. I had presumed that it was in Pigou's
_Economics of Welfare_, 1922, but I could not find it in
there. It does not seem to be in my copy of Marshall
either, nor does it appear in Schumpeter's 1954, _History
of Economic Analysis_, nor even in Richard Musgrave
standard pub
On 11 Dec 96 at 6:57, Doug Henwood wrote:
I was fascinated by the news that Joseph Stiglitz will become chief
economist of the World Bank. Can someone tell me what Stiglitz'
qualifications for this job are? What does he know about, and what has his
work contributed to, economic
In addition to _Whither Socialism_, there's Stiglit's _Peasant
versus the State_ (or something like that), and his AER article on
"Markets, Market Failure, and Development". I haven't read either, but
the first sounds like its in line with the current "LDC governments are
exploiting
On 11 Dec 96 at 6:57, Doug Henwood wrote:
I was fascinated by the news that Joseph Stiglitz will become chief
economist of the World Bank. Can someone tell me what Stiglitz'
qualifications for this job are? What does he know about, and what has his
work contributed to, economic development
In a message dated 96-12-12 11:30:17 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Max B. Sawicky)
writes:
JS has been a big disappointment to we nouveau-classicals (I've
started my own school of thought, with an enrollment of one),
MS
would you like some feminist analysis for your school of one?:)
maggie
Obviously this is a political payoff appointment. He
can be counted on to spout the administration line at WB,
whatever that might be.
He does have some publications in some prestigious
journals on development issues, particularly in regard to
landlord/tenant issues in rural areas.
Doug writes questioning Stigs appointment to the WB:
are the probems of the third world the result of
information asymetry?
well after 14 years or so of SAPs the WB probably thinks it has finally rid
itself of the Third World and if it hasn't quite done the job then it guesses
AIDs will do
At 11:48 AM 12/11/96, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
one possible point in J. Stiglitz's favor: hasn't he written a
book that argues that a rapid transition from a centrally-planned
economy to a full-scale market economy is a bad idea? or am I
reading book jackets incorrectly?
Yeah, and Summers
Has Stigiltz's replacement at the CEA been announced?
Does anyone know the exact origin of the term "externalities"? I ask
because I'm struck by the etymological symmetry of this term and Marx's
"entausserung," which is usually rendered "alienation" but is literally
externalization. (Entausserung is Marx's main term for alienation in
Capital;
Date sent: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:48:48 -0800 (PST)
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:[PEN-L:7823] Stiglitz to WB
one possible point in J. Stiglitz's favor: hasn't he written a
Doug is essentially correct. Although JS might be
marginally friendlier to LDCs than LS, they are essentially
centrist New Keynesian peas in a pod, and pals to boot,
coming out of similar environments and reflecting similar
methodological and ideological perspectives.
My contacts
Not to let him off the hook, but I was impressed with some of Stiglitz's
kind words regarding the success of collective enterprise in China in
Whither Socialism. The book as a whole is a corrective to privatization
mania, from within new keynesian discourse...
Thad
At 02:13 PM 12/11/96 -0800,
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