RFC 228 (v2) Add memoize into the standard library

2000-09-19 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
This and other RFCs are available on the web at http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ =head1 TITLE Add memoize into the standard library =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Adam Turoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 14 Sep 2000 Last Modified: 18 Sep 2000 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: 228 Version:

RFC 227 (v2) Extend the window to turn on taint mode

2000-09-19 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
This and other RFCs are available on the web at http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ =head1 TITLE Extend the window to turn on taint mode =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Adam Turoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 14 Sep 2000 Last Modified: 18 Sep 2000 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: 227

Re: RFC 259 (v1) Builtins : Make use of hashref context for garrulous builtins

2000-09-19 Thread Tom Christiansen
It's hard to remember the sequence of values that the following builtins return: stat/lstat caller localtime/gmtime get* and though it's easy to look them up, it's a pain to look them up Every Single Time. Moreover, code like this is far from self-documenting:

RFC 76 (v2) Builtin: reduce

2000-09-19 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
This and other RFCs are available on the web at http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ =head1 TITLE Builtin: reduce =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10 Aug 2000 Last Modified: 19 Sep 2000 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: 76 Version: 2 Status: Frozen

RFC 260 (v1) More modules

2000-09-19 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
This and other RFCs are available on the web at http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ =head1 TITLE More modules =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 19 Sep 2000 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: 260 Version: 1 Status: Developing =head1 ABSTRACT Perl

RFC 255 (v2) Fix iteration of nested hashes

2000-09-19 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
This and other RFCs are available on the web at http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ =head1 TITLE Fix iteration of nested hashes =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 18 Sep 2000 Last Modified: 19 Sep 2000 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: 255 Version: 2

Re: RFC 260 (v1) More modules

2000-09-19 Thread Dave Rolsky
On 19 Sep 2000, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote: =head2 Which modules? Just to throw out some possibilities for discussion: Date::Manip or some other date manipulation module. Date::Manip is cool but awfully huge, I know. Can't think of others right at this moment. -dave /*==

Re: Deadline for all RFCs? If so, why?

2000-09-19 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 07:26:17PM -0400, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote: I am curious if this applies to any Working Groups besides perl6-language. I don't see why not. We're nearing the 300 RFC mark, and most of the RFCs have yet to make it to v2. I don't think encouaging hit-and-run RFC submission

Re: RFC 23 (v5) Higher order functions

2000-09-19 Thread Nathan Wiger
Damian Conway wrote: That's it! I'm gonna take that whole section out and burn it! ;-) $1 is the *only* place in Perl where an index starts at 1. *It's* the one that's inconsistent. Fix *it*. I'd love to. But we're stuck, unless we make a $CMD which holds what $0 currently holds, which I

Re: 'Markers'/RFC prototypes

2000-09-19 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 08:47:11AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: That *shouldn't* be hard. If you're getting hung up on details like =over 4, =item, L and C, then leave them out. No, I'm getting hung up on the fact that it'll take a bunch of time to flesh out the RFCs beyond a simple

UPDATE: RFC Status

2000-09-19 Thread Adam Turoff
All RFCs must fall into one of three status categories: Developing (RFC is incomplete; commments requested) Frozen (Comments received; nothing more to say) Retracted (Comments received; author is removing idea from consideration.) (NB: 'Retracted'

Re: 'Markers'/RFC prototypes

2000-09-19 Thread Piers Cawley
Adam Turoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, Sep 18, 2000 at 10:18:41AM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote: Piers Cawley writes: The idea here is to allow people to get ideas on the lists in a rough form where they can get some initial comments (which may blow the 'real' RFC out of the

Re: RFC 218 (v1) Cmy Dog $spot is just an assertion

2000-09-19 Thread Piers Cawley
Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, Sep 18, 2000 at 09:48:27AM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Michael G Schwern [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Nope. fields::new() basically just does Cbless [\%{"$class\::FIELDS"}], $class, but the current pseudohash implementation doesn't

Re: RFC 100 (v2) Embed full URI support into Perl

2000-09-19 Thread Piers Cawley
Chaim Frenkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "NC" == Nicholas Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: NC $htdoc = open uri "http://www.yahoo.com" or die; with uri in the NC standard library and also make it easy to stack the module that NC does uri at the top of 'file' so that the default is to call

A common event loop

2000-09-19 Thread Michael G Schwern
As I understand it, there is currently no agreed upon common event loop architecture in Perl. This means that if two event-based modules are used together (say, Net::IRC and POE) the one who's main loop starts up first will win. So the question I put to you all is, would it make sense for Perl

Re: FYI: Ruby 1.6.0 - An object-oriented language for quick and easy programming

2000-09-19 Thread Dave Storrs
On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Nathan Wiger wrote: And then there's the lexical variable issue too: The default variable scope rules for Ruby (default: local) are much better suited for medium-to-large scale programming tasks; no "my, my, my" proliferation is needed for safe Ruby

FYI: Ruby 1.6.0 - An object-oriented language for quick and easy programming

2000-09-19 Thread H . Merijn Brand
I don't like OOP, you folks obviously do. Maybe docs/specs/... are interesting for you ... Have fun. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: fm.announce Subject: Ruby 1.6.0 - An object-oriented language for quick and easy programming Date: 19 Sep 2000 09:58:15 GMT application: Ruby 1.6.0

Re: RFC 224 (v1) Objects : Rationalizing Cref, Cattribute::reftype, and Cbuiltin::blessed

2000-09-19 Thread Graham Barr
On Mon, Sep 18, 2000 at 08:54:30AM -0600, Tom Christiansen wrote: This RFC proposes that rather than three separate mechanisms (in three separate namespaces) to determine object typing information, Perl 6 simply extend the Cref function to return all the necessary information in a list

Re: RFC 163 (v2) Objects: Autoaccessors for object data structures

2000-09-19 Thread Dave Storrs
On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Glenn Linderman wrote: This is an interesting comment to be made about an interesting side effect of this proposal. [snip] (1) array elements can be accessed by name (2) member data can be looked up quicker (by array index, rather than by hashed name) [snip] new RFC:

Re: FYI: Ruby 1.6.0 - An object-oriented language for quick and easy programming

2000-09-19 Thread Nathan Wiger
What sets Ruby apart is a clean and consistent language design where everything is an object. I like this part. Assuming I ever finish my last RFC I'd like Perl to have embedded objects as well. The difference being Perl's wouldn't get in the way, unlike Python's. Of particular interest seems

Re: RFC 228 (v2) Add memoize into the standard library

2000-09-19 Thread Graham Barr
On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 06:57:07AM -, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote: =head1 OUTSTANDING ISSUES A few people mentioned that using memoize() as a function has some action-at-a-distance qualities, although it is useful for caching builtin functions such as cos() and sin(). But those could

Re: FYI: Ruby 1.6.0 - An object-oriented language for quick and easy programming

2000-09-19 Thread iain truskett
[in Ruby documentation:] The default variable scope rules for Ruby (default: local) are much better suited for medium-to-large scale programming tasks; no "my, my, my" proliferation is needed for safe Ruby programming * Dave Storrs ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [20 Sep 2000 02:08]: Actually, this

Re: FYI: Ruby 1.6.0 - An object-oriented language for quick and easyprogramming

2000-09-19 Thread Nathan Wiger
Dave Storrs wrote: The default variable scope rules for Ruby (default: local) are much better suited for medium-to-large scale programming tasks; no "my, my, my" proliferation is needed for safe Ruby programming Actually, this is the bit that interests me. Most times,

Re: Perl Implementation Language

2000-09-19 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 06:58 PM 9/15/00 +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: On Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 12:53:29PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote: The only reason I can see nice winning over fast is if nice brings in whole new concepts to the language. (Like, say, matrix ops or Damian's currying stuff) Well, taking the

Re: Perl Implementation Language

2000-09-19 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 04:57 PM 9/18/00 +0100, Tom Hughes wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for the language we implement perl in (and thus ultimately need to translate to the compiler-target language), I'm thinking of something like Chip's PIL. (Or PIL

Re: RFC 188 (v2) Objects : Private keys and methods

2000-09-19 Thread Nathan Wiger
This RFC proposes two new keywords -- Cprivate and Cpublic -- that limit the accessibility of keys in a hash, and of methods. I still think these should be attributes across the board: my $hash{$key} : private = $val; my @hash{qw(_name _rank _snum)} : public; sub dostuff : private {

Re: RFC 188 (v2) Objects : Private keys and methods

2000-09-19 Thread Jonathan Scott Duff
On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 12:35:31PM -0700, Nathan Wiger wrote: This RFC proposes two new keywords -- Cprivate and Cpublic -- that limit the accessibility of keys in a hash, and of methods. I still think these should be attributes across the board: my $hash{$key} : private = $val;

Re: FYI: Ruby 1.6.0 - An object-oriented language for quick and easy programming

2000-09-19 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 08:07:33AM -0700, Dave Storrs wrote: On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Nathan Wiger wrote: And then there's the lexical variable issue too: The default variable scope rules for Ruby (default: local) are much better suited for medium-to-large scale programming tasks;

Re: FYI: Ruby 1.6.0 - An object-oriented language for quick and easyprogramming

2000-09-19 Thread Dave Storrs
On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Adam Turoff wrote: On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 08:07:33AM -0700, Dave Storrs wrote: I think I would be guardedly in favor of changing the default scope from global to local (although I have the feeling there is something I'm not considering). What does everyone else

RFC 188 (v2) Objects : Private keys and methods

2000-09-19 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
This and other RFCs are available on the web at http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ =head1 TITLE Objects : Private keys and methods =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 1 Sep 2000 Last Modified: 19 Sep 2000 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: 188 Version: 2

Re: A common event loop

2000-09-19 Thread Peter Scott
At 03:40 AM 9/19/00 -0400, Michael G Schwern wrote: As I understand it, there is currently no agreed upon common event loop architecture in Perl. This means that if two event-based modules are used together (say, Net::IRC and POE) the one who's main loop starts up first will win. So the

Re: A common event loop

2000-09-19 Thread David L. Nicol
This too is something that would be very easy to do in everything-is-an-exception world. All events throw "EVENT-whatever" exceptions, and there you are. -- David Nicol 816.235.1187 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

\z vs \Z vs $

2000-09-19 Thread Tom Christiansen
What can be done to make $ work "better", so we don't have to make people use /foo\z/ to mean /foo$/? They'll keep writing the $ for things that probably oughtn't abide optional newlines. Remember that /$/ really means /(?=\n?\z)/. And likewise with \Z. --tom

Re: RFC 260 (v1) More modules

2000-09-19 Thread Adam Turoff
Sorry this is so long. No time to condense it. On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 07:41:20PM -, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote: =head2 Core bloat? The most obvious objection is core bloat. 5.6.0 is already over 5 megs and only going to get fatter. Throwing lots of modules into the core will only

Re: RFC 260 (v1) More modules

2000-09-19 Thread Graham Barr
I would suggest looking at the SDK that is being developed for perl5. In fact I would suggest that is probbaly the way to go, a small-ish core and various SDK's targeted towards different areas. As many of these modules are maintained by separate authors, haveing a separate SDK will allow a

Re: RFC 260 (v1) More modules

2000-09-19 Thread Tom Christiansen
I would be opposed to any mechanism that could allow people to have their code without its attendant documentation. --tom

Re: RFC 246 (v1) pack/unpack uncontrovercial enhancements

2000-09-19 Thread Ilya Zakharevich
On Mon, Sep 18, 2000 at 02:31:10PM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: How about a Base64 to match with uuencode? PRL This RFC proposes simple enhancements to templates of pack/unpack builtins. PRL These enhancements do not change the spirit of how pack/unpack is used. PRL The semantic is enhanced

Re: RFC 231 (v1) Data: Multi-dimensional arrays/hashes and slices

2000-09-19 Thread Ilya Zakharevich
On Mon, Sep 18, 2000 at 08:56:28AM -0400, Karl Glazebrook wrote: Firstly does your proposal allow for a slice like 10..20:2 (i.e. with a stride of 2) ? As shipped: no. But if this is made a primitive (which I would not like), then the only change which is needed is to make the

Re: RFC 231 (v1) Data: Multi-dimensional arrays/hashes and slices

2000-09-19 Thread Ilya Zakharevich
On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 08:41:34AM +1200, Christian Soeller wrote: Finally as an overload expert what do you think about the proposals to make arrays overloadable objects so one can say things like: @x = 3 * @y; Is this where RFC 231's suggestion for OO slicing comes in (see quote)?

Re: RFC 212 (v1) Make length(@array) work

2000-09-19 Thread Johan Vromans
Nathan Torkington [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Randal L. Schwartz writes: This proposal makes length() an un-prototypable (and therefore unoverridable). Do you have a proposal for how to handle that? Do we really want everything in Perl to be overridable? RFC 168. -- Johan

Re: RFC 188 (v2) Objects : Private keys and methods

2000-09-19 Thread Nathan Wiger
Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: With the exact same semantics? I.e., my $hash{$key} : private = $val; makes %hash non-autovivifying, thus forcing the programmer to "declare" all of the hash keys he intends to use? If you wanted to declare you lexical scope separate from your data

Re: RFC 188 (v2) Objects : Private keys and methods

2000-09-19 Thread Damian Conway
The problem with specifying them as attributes is that I do not believe there is any way (or even any proposed way) of applying attributes to a hash entrie or a hash slice, nor is there any way of *retrospectively* applying an attribute to a hash that has already been declared elsewhere. Damian

rfc47 (was Re: A common event loop)

2000-09-19 Thread Uri Guttman
"DLN" == David L Nicol [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DLN This too is something that would be very easy to do in DLN everything-is-an-exception world. All events throw "EVENT-whatever" DLN exceptions, and there you are. and how do you dispatch on those events? an event loop should allow for

Re: RFC 99 (v3) Standardize ALL Perl platforms on UNIX epoch

2000-09-19 Thread Chris Nandor
At 11:21 -0400 2000.09.18, Chaim Frenkel wrote: CN I don't think you understand ... if you use $ENV{TZ}, at least it can be CN changed for each user, for when you change time zones, DST, etc. For CN Config.pm, you have to edit a global value. Ick. But the OS's idea of the epoch is global! No,

Re: RFC 234 (v1) Data: overloading via the SECOND operand if needed

2000-09-19 Thread Ilya Zakharevich
== What if both modules have this :override bit set at the same time? Does the second one still win? Or does the first one win again? == It is wise to live the

Re: Perl Implementation Language

2000-09-19 Thread Bradley M. Kuhn
[Please forgive me for chiming in late on this thread; I just got a chance to catch up on mailing list traffic.] On Tue, Sep 12, 2000 at 03:17:47PM -0400, Ken Fox wrote: That's fine for the VM and the support libraries, but I'd *really* like to see the parser/front-end in Perl. There

Re: Perl Implementation Language

2000-09-19 Thread Tom Hughes
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:57 PM 9/18/00 +0100, Tom Hughes wrote: Doesn't this run a significant danger of leading us straight back into the perl5 problem of making debugging of the source code more or less impossible? Not

Re: RFC 260 (v1) More modules

2000-09-19 Thread Curtis Jewell
- Original Message - From: "Adam Turoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 15:08 Subject: Re: RFC 260 (v1) More modules Sorry this is so long. No time to condense it. On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 07:41:20PM -, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote:

Re: RFC 260 (v1) More modules

2000-09-19 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 06:49:20PM -0500, Curtis Jewell wrote: From: "Adam Turoff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are you proposing something like this: Standard distribution: 1: Everything (core, docs, standard modules) Alternative Distribution: 2a: core language (+ pragmatic modules) 2b:

Re: RFC 260 (v1) More modules

2000-09-19 Thread Andy Dougherty
On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Curtis Jewell wrote: (SE), AFAIK, and therefore the man pages should be an option that could be deleted to save space. This is already an option, and has been for years. I don't imagine that would change in perl6. -- Andy Dougherty [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: RFC 233 (v1) Replace Exporter by a better scaling mechanism

2000-09-19 Thread Ilya Zakharevich
== This RFC proposes a minimal efficient well-scaling mechanism for exporting. Only export of subroutines and tags are supported by this mechanism. Though I'm not completely sure how the implementation works in other compiled

Re: RFC 260 (v1) More modules

2000-09-19 Thread Tom Christiansen
(SE), AFAIK, and therefore the man pages should be an option that could be deleted to save space. This is already an option, and has been for years. I don't imagine that would change in perl6. I should much prefer to see random modules deleted instead. --tom

Re: RFC 260 (v1) More modules

2000-09-19 Thread Chaim Frenkel
"TC" == Tom Christiansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: TC I would be opposed to any mechanism that could allow people TC to have their code without its attendant documentation. Why? What if I have one or two development boxes, and two handfuls of production machines. I don't need documentation

Re: RFC 260 (v1) More modules

2000-09-19 Thread Tom Christiansen
"TC" == Tom Christiansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: TC I would be opposed to any mechanism that could allow people TC to have their code without its attendant documentation. Why? What if I have one or two development boxes, and two handfuls of production machines. I don't need documentation

Re: RFC 188 (v2) Objects : Private keys and methods

2000-09-19 Thread Nathan Wiger
Damian Conway wrote: The problem with specifying them as attributes is that I do not believe there is any way (or even any proposed way) of applying attributes to a hash entrie or a hash slice, nor is there any way of *retrospectively* applying an attribute to a hash that has already been

RFC 85 (v2) All perl generated errors should have a unique identifier

2000-09-19 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
This and other RFCs are available on the web at http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ =head1 TITLE All perl generated errors should have a unique identifier =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Chaim Frenkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9 Aug 2000 Last Modified: 19 Sep 2000 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: RFC 76 (v2) Builtin: reduce

2000-09-19 Thread Damien Neil
On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 08:14:24PM -0600, Tom Christiansen wrote: Following Glenn's lead, I'm in the process of RFC'ing a new null() keyword and value As though one were not already drowning in a surfeit of subtly dissimilar false values. Hear, hear. Three-valued logic is enough. Make

Re: RFC 12 (v2) variable usage warnings

2000-09-19 Thread Tom Christiansen
The warning for the use of an unassigned variable should be "use of uninitialized variable C$x". The problem with that idea, now as before, is that this check happens where Perl is looking at a value, not a variable. Even were it possible to arduously modify Perl to handle explicitly named

RFC 261 (v1) Pattern matching on perl values

2000-09-19 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
This and other RFCs are available on the web at http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ =head1 TITLE Pattern matching on perl values =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Steve Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 19 Sep 2000 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: 261 Version: 1 Status: Developing =head1

Re: RFC 76 (v2) Builtin: reduce

2000-09-19 Thread Nathan Wiger
In any case, the preferred option should be to provide a default value: $sum = reduce ^_+^_, 0, @values; which is always cleaner *and* shorter. :-) Ummm...Maybe I'm missing something, but how does reduce() know the difference between $sum = reduce ^_+^_, 0, @values;

RFC 263 (v1) Add null() keyword and fundamental data type

2000-09-19 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
This and other RFCs are available on the web at http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ =head1 TITLE Add null() keyword and fundamental data type =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Nathan Wiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 19 Sep 2000 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: 263 Version: 1 Status:

Re: RFC 263 (v1) Add null() keyword and fundamental data type

2000-09-19 Thread Damian Conway
Should I point out that RFC 225 (Superpositions) actually covers most of this? Cnull is equivalent in semantics to Cany() or Call(). Except, of course, the superpositional versions work...In Constant Time! ;-) Damian

Re: RFC 76 (v2) Builtin: reduce

2000-09-19 Thread Tom Christiansen
Ummm...Maybe I'm missing something, but how does reduce() know the difference between $sum = reduce ^_+^_, 0, @values; unshift @values, 0; $sum = reduce ^_+^_, @values; You know, I really find it much more legible to consistently write these sorts of thing with braces

Re: RFC 263 (v1) Add null() keyword and fundamental data type

2000-09-19 Thread Tom Christiansen
Currently, Perl has the concept of Cundef, which means that a value is not defined. One thing it lacks, however, is the concept of Cnull, which means that a value is known to be unknown or not applicable. These are two separate concepts. No, they aren't. --tom

Re: RFC 243 (v1) No special UPPERCASE_NAME subroutines

2000-09-19 Thread Nathan Wiger
Ilya Zakharevich wrote: $_ is not ALLCAPS. @EXPORT_OK should die (see RFC 233). @ISA is on its way to its grave already, see Cuse base. Yeah, but you're still just sidestepping my point. Your position seems poised on the hope that no more special variables get introduced, or that some of

RFC 76 (v3) Builtin: reduce

2000-09-19 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
This and other RFCs are available on the web at http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ =head1 TITLE Builtin: reduce =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10 August 2000 Last Modified: 20 Sep 2000 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: 76 Version: 3 Status: Frozen

Re: RFC 263 (v1) Add null() keyword and fundamental data type

2000-09-19 Thread Nathan Wiger
Tom Christiansen wrote: Currently, Perl has the concept of Cundef, which means that a value is not defined. One thing it lacks, however, is the concept of Cnull, which means that a value is known to be unknown or not applicable. These are two separate concepts. No, they aren't. Uhhh,

Re: RFC 263 (v1) Add null() keyword and fundamental data type

2000-09-19 Thread Sam Tregar
On 20 Sep 2000, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote: The absence of a Cnull concept and keyword in Perl makes it more difficult to interface with relational databases and other medium which utilize Cnull. Modules such as CDBI must map Cnull to Cundef, which is an imperfect match. Does it really make

Re: RFC 76 (v2) Builtin: reduce

2000-09-19 Thread Damian Conway
Ummm...Maybe I'm missing something, but how does reduce() know the difference between $sum = reduce ^_+^_, 0, @values; unshift @values, 0; $sum = reduce ^_+^_, @values; There *isn't* any difference. Both versions guarantee that the list to be

Re: RFC 153 (v2) New pragma 'autoload' to load functions and modules on-demand

2000-09-19 Thread Nathan Wiger
Tom Christiansen wrote: Mostly harmless. Right before raising the famous "Can't locate method ..." error, Perl should check to see if Cautoload is in effect. If so, it should read the Cautoload.conf config file and ... ***LINEARLY READ A FLAT FILE!!?!?!*** I didn't get into the guts too

Re: RFC 23 (v5) Higher order functions

2000-09-19 Thread Chaim Frenkel
"DC" == Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DC But I'm *never* going to take out ^0. Having ^1 mean $_[0] is Just DC Plain Wrong. Though I see your point. I'm not sure how many would make the connection between ^1 and $_[0]. I see ^1 as the _first_ argument not as the zero-th offset. To

Re: RFC 23 (v5) Higher order functions

2000-09-19 Thread Damian Conway
Let me ask you: foo('a','b', 'c') Is 'b' the 1st parameter or the 2nd? This is the classical mistake of confusing indices and ordinals. The 1st argument is bound to the parameter whose index is [0], The 2nd argument is bound to the parameter whose index is [1], etc. So,

RFC 153 (v2) New pragma 'autoload' to load functions and modules on-demand

2000-09-19 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
This and other RFCs are available on the web at http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ =head1 TITLE New pragma 'autoload' to load functions and modules on-demand =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Nathan Wiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 24 Aug 2000 Last Modified: 19 Sep 2000 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: RFC 263 (v1) Add null() keyword and fundamental data type

2000-09-19 Thread Peter Scott
At 10:11 PM 9/19/00 -0700, Nathan Wiger wrote: Tom Christiansen wrote: Currently, Perl has the concept of Cundef, which means that a value is not defined. One thing it lacks, however, is the concept of Cnull, which means that a value is known to be unknown or not applicable. These are

Pre-withdrawal notice for RFC184

2000-09-19 Thread Ariel Scolnicov
I'm planning to withdraw RFC184 ("Perl should support an interactive mode"), due to lack of interest. There was little discussion of it, and the consensus seemed to be that Cperl -de0 is "good enough" for most purposes, and Cpsh for all others. While I do not agree, it does mean there is no

RFC 258 (v1) Distinguish packed binary data from printable strings

2000-09-19 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
This and other RFCs are available on the web at http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ =head1 TITLE Distinguish packed binary data from printable strings =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Tim Conrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 18 Sept 2000 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: 258 Version: 1 Status:

RFC 259 (v1) Builtins : Make use of hashref context for garrulous builtins

2000-09-19 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
This and other RFCs are available on the web at http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ =head1 TITLE Builtins : Make use of hashref context for garrulous builtins =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 19 September 2000 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: 259

Re: RFC 258 (v1) Distinguish packed binary data from printable strings

2000-09-19 Thread Michael G Schwern
On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 07:00:35AM -, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote: =head1 IMPLEMENTATION I know almost nothing about internals, so this is probably wrong, but see if I convey my meaning anyway. Well, I have nothing to say about the utility of this module, but I can say that for your

Re: RFC 21 (v2) Subroutines: Replace Cwantarray with a generic Cwant function

2000-09-19 Thread Michael G Schwern
On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 07:47:58AM -, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote: Subroutines: Replace Cwantarray with a generic Cwant function Just as long as I can still say: return want 'LIST' ? @some_array : $some_scalar; I'll be happy. And, of course, want 'LVALUE'. --

Notice of intent to freeze RFCs 204, 206, and revise 207

2000-09-19 Thread Buddha Buck
Unless I hear otherwise, I plan on freezing RFC 204 and RFC 206 this evening (17:30 New York time), and issue a revised version of 207. The frozen versions will be substantially identical to the versions ow released. On RFC 204 (LOL refs as indices), I have followed the discussion from Ilya

Re: RFC 212 (v1) Make length(@array) work

2000-09-19 Thread Dave Storrs
On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Bart Lateur wrote: On 13 Sep 2000 07:07:42 -, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote: Many newbies think of the number of elements in an array as its "length" Doesn't this reflect C's idea of "a string is an array of characters"? Which isn't the idea behind strings in Perl.

Re: RFC 21 (v2) Subroutines: Replace Cwantarray with a generic Cwant function

2000-09-19 Thread Nathan Wiger
Great changes, Damian! I'm just going to check on some clarification: When Cwant is called with arguments in a scalar context: $primary_context = want 'LIST', 2, 'LVALUE'; So these arguments can be passed in any order, and want checks them? I like it. But I worry if you say

Re: Pre-withdrawal notice for RFC184

2000-09-19 Thread H . Merijn Brand
On 19 Sep 2000 09:23:00 +0300, Ariel Scolnicov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm planning to withdraw RFC184 ("Perl should support an interactive mode"), due to lack of interest. There was little discussion of it, and the consensus seemed to be that Cperl -de0 is "good enough" for most

Re: RFC 257 (v1) UNIVERSAL::import()

2000-09-19 Thread John Porter
Michael G Schwern wrote: Would anyone find it useful to have a UNIVERSAL method which reports on what sybols a given module exports? I don't see any reason why this should be anything other than a module. A module in the core, if it's that important. -- John Porter We're building

Re: RFC 258 (v1) Distinguish packed binary data from printable strings

2000-09-19 Thread Eric Roode
Nathan Wiger wrote: One thing that Nat will soon be releasing is an RFC on strict typing. I'll also have one (hopefully) on an embedded tie-like solution that will allow you to create your own variable types. With these you would conceivably be able to say: use strict 'types'; my packed

Re: Pre-withdrawal notice for RFC184

2000-09-19 Thread Jonathan Scott Duff
On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 09:23:00AM +0300, Ariel Scolnicov wrote: I'm planning to withdraw RFC184 ("Perl should support an interactive mode"), due to lack of interest. I'd say leave it in. What could it hurt? -Scott -- Jonathan Scott Duff [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: RFC 258 (v1) Distinguish packed binary data from printablestrings

2000-09-19 Thread Andy Dougherty
Perl should be able to distinguish between printable strings and packed binary data stored as strings (presumed to not be printable text) All strings are "printable" in perl, since print just calls fwrite(). I can and do use perl to "print" binary data. print $a is perfectly fine even if $a

Re: Pre-withdrawal notice for RFC184

2000-09-19 Thread Dave Storrs
On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, H.Merijn Brand wrote: On 19 Sep 2000 09:23:00 +0300, Ariel Scolnicov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm planning to withdraw RFC184 ("Perl should support an interactive mode"), due to lack of interest. There was little discussion of it, I seem to have missed

Re: RFC 258 (v1) Distinguish packed binary data from printable strings

2000-09-19 Thread Nathan Wiger
Tom Christiansen wrote: Perl should fly far and fast from starting down the bumpy road where that data is strongly typed in the mythical and deceptive text-vs-binary sense ... Heed the wisdom of the Unix ... Tom's exactly right. Data should be data, at least by default. One of the

Re: RFC 76 (v2) Builtin: reduce

2000-09-19 Thread iain truskett
* Jonathan Scott Duff ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [20 Sep 2000 07:15]: On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 07:29:56PM -, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote: =head1 TITLE Builtin: reduce [...] Separation: $sorted = reduce { push @{$_[0][$_[1]%2]}, $_[1]; $_[0] } [[],[]],

Re: RFC 258 (v1) Distinguish packed binary data from printable strings

2000-09-19 Thread Tim Conrow
Tom Christiansen wrote: Perhaps what you're truly looking for is a generalized tainting mechanism. Sounds cool, but I have only the vaguest idea what you (may) mean. Pointers? RFCs? Examples? Hints? -- -- Tim Conrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] |

Re: RFC 76 (v2) Builtin: reduce

2000-09-19 Thread Jonathan Scott Duff
On Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 07:31:35AM +1100, iain truskett wrote: * Jonathan Scott Duff ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [20 Sep 2000 07:15]: On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 07:29:56PM -, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote: =head1 TITLE Builtin: reduce [...] Separation: $sorted = reduce { push

Re: RFC 258 (v1) Distinguish packed binary data from printable strings

2000-09-19 Thread Tim Conrow
Tim Conrow wrote: Tom Christiansen wrote: Perhaps what you're truly looking for is a generalized tainting mechanism. Sounds cool, but I have only the vaguest idea what you (may) mean. Pointers? RFCs? Examples? Hints? Sorry for the clutter, but I didn't want to come off too clueless. I

Re: RFC 255 (v2) Fix iteration of nested hashes

2000-09-19 Thread Tom Christiansen
Just to note: in version 2 of the RFC, it's associated with the pad of the block in which the Ceach appears. then what are you going to do? The short answer is that there is no "manual" reset of iterators. I am concerned about that. sub fn(\%) { my $href = shift;

Re: RFC 258 (v1) Distinguish packed binary data from printable strings

2000-09-19 Thread Tom Christiansen
Tim Conrow wrote: Tom Christiansen wrote: Perhaps what you're truly looking for is a generalized tainting mechanism. Sounds cool, but I have only the vaguest idea what you (may) mean. Pointers? RFCs? Examples? Hints? Sorry for the clutter, but I didn't want to come off too clueless. I

Re: RFC 76 (v2) Builtin: reduce

2000-09-19 Thread Damian Conway
Collection: @triples = @{ reduce sub($;$$$){ [@{shift},[@_] }, [], @singles }; You've a typo there Noted. Thanks. Damian

Re: RFC 76 (v2) Builtin: reduce

2000-09-19 Thread iain truskett
* Jonathan Scott Duff ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [20 Sep 2000 07:43]: On Wed, Sep 20, 2000 at 07:31:35AM +1100, iain truskett wrote: [...] $sorted = reduce { push @{ ^0 [ ^1 % 2 ] }, ^1; ^0 }, [[],[]], @numbers; I guess I'm confused with the syntax. Shouldn't there be an - in there? $sorted =

Re: RFC 76 (v2) Builtin: reduce

2000-09-19 Thread Tom Christiansen
If the original list has no elements, Creduce immediately throws an exception. What do you mean by exception, die ? No other builtin dies like that at runtime. Well, more can trigger run-time exceptions than people usually notice, but I don't know of one that does so on an empty list. These

Re: RFC 255 (v2) Fix iteration of nested hashes

2000-09-19 Thread Tom Christiansen
This RFC proposes that the internal cursor iterated by the Ceach function be stored in the pad of the block containing the Ceach, rather than being stored within the hash being iterated. Then how do you specify which iterator is to be reset when you wish to do that? Currently, you do this by

Re: RFC 76 (v2) Builtin: reduce

2000-09-19 Thread Damian Conway
From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Sep 20 07:43:36 2000 Received: from ALPHA6.CC.MONASH.EDU.AU (alpha6.cc.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.25]) by indy05.csse.monash.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA27221 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 07:43:36 +1100 (EST) Received: from

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