Philip Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> At 01:56 AM 10/12/2002 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
>> but I'm sure Glenn would be pleased to send 'em to
>> you on request.
> Do you have an email address - the O'Reilly site also seems not to have one...
Hrm, you're right. I think there was one in the hard
At 01:56 AM 10/12/2002 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
but I'm sure Glenn would be pleased to send 'em to
you on request.
I've found a link:
http://www.delphis.com/java/java.html
Philip Warner| __---_
Alb
At 01:56 AM 10/12/2002 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
but I'm sure Glenn would be pleased to send 'em to
you on request.
Do you have an email address - the O'Reilly site also seems not to have one...
Philip Warner|
I have had similar troubles, related to oid overflow. I had to modify pg_dump
to properly cast queries that contain oids. This is against 7.1.3 source. The
patch was hacked quickly, in order to get a corrupted database reloaded, and
this while I was traveling in another country... so it is far f
"Nate Sommer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I'm a student taking a database systems course, and as a project option I
> chose to work on one of PostgreSQL's todo list items, namely "auto-delete
> large objects when referencing row is deleted." The main point of the
> project is to become more comf
Philip Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> This would be OK, but I'd be very happy with DESCRIBE, especially if
> tab-completion meant I could type 'DESCTAB' instead of
> 'DESCRIBE TABLE '.
That's quicker than ?
I don't want to sound like I've got some kind of religious objection
to DESCRIBE,
At 01:55 AM 10/12/2002 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
\d would show something like
\dt [tables]\ds [sequences] \dv [views] ...
(the way it's shown now shows what completions are available, but not
what they mean. Also, both \d and \D should be shown in any case)
This would be OK, but I'd be
> >"\D" works though.)
> >
> >Any objections out there?
>
> My only complaint here is being forced to use the 'shift' key on commands
> that will be common.
\dd perhaps?
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"Dan Langille" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Is the process documented? Any set procedure? Who knows how to do
> it?
Er ... nope, nope, the core bunch ...
> Is 'core' the same as 'steering'?
Yes, the webpage takes some license here. 'core' is the most common
terminology for the-usual-suspect
"Nate Sommer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Tupledescs are generally associated with tables (relations) more easily
>> than with specific tuples. What exactly is your context here?
> What I'd like to do is add some code to the heap_delete function that
> checks the tuple being deleted for oids,
Hi Dan,
It's been mentioned a few times on the Advocacy and Marketing list that
we should put together a process for ensuring that all the parts
necessary for a release occur properly and smoothly.
***
Source code
- Initial packaging of the new releases' source code
Docs
- Confir
On Tue, Dec 10, 2002 at 12:55:51PM +1100, Philip Warner wrote:
> At 01:22 PM 9/12/2002 -0800, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
> >Hmmm...I'm not certain that the \d commands really NEED to have a logical
> >link to the actual thing you're listing.
>
> This is the perspective a person with good memor
> > Can anyone tell me how to get a tuple's TupleDesc if all that is known
is t=
> > he tid? Or is there an easy way to step through a tuple, retrieving the
da=
> > ta and data type from each field?
>
> Tupledescs are generally associated with tables (relations) more easily
> than with specific tu
On 9 Dec 2002 at 11:38, Tom Lane wrote:
> "Dan Langille" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Let's create a release team. This strategy is one well established
> > in other projects and in industry. For lack of a better starting
> > reference, let me suggest http://www.freebsd.org/releng/charter.htm
"Nate Sommer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Can anyone tell me how to get a tuple's TupleDesc if all that is known is t=
> he tid? Or is there an easy way to step through a tuple, retrieving the da=
> ta and data type from each field?
Tupledescs are generally associated with tables (relations) mo
Can anyone tell me how to get a tuple's TupleDesc
if all that is known is the tid? Or is there an easy way to step through a
tuple, retrieving the data and data type from each field?
Thanks,
Nate Sommer
Tom Lane wrote:
This seems fairly unworkable to me as-is. By definition, WHERE selects
from a cross-product of the FROM tables; to make the above do what you
want, you'd have to break that fundamental semantics. The semantics of
explicit JOIN cases would be broken too.
What we need is some kind
Kevin Brown wrote:
> My question is: how do you see cursors working with nested
> transactions?
>
> Right now you can't do cursors outside of transactions.
> Subtransactions would complicate things a bit:
>
> BEGIN;
> DECLARE CURSOR x ...
> BEGIN
> (is cursor x visible here? What are the implica
Bruce Momjian wrote:
> I am going to work on nested transactions for 7.4.
>
> My goal is to first implement nested transactions:
>
> BEGIN;
> SELECT ...
> BEGIN;
> UPDATE;
> COMMIT;
> DELETE;
> COMMIT;
>
> and later savepoints (Oracle):
>
>
> BEG
At 09:10 PM 9/12/2002 -0500, Robert Treat wrote:
Even this little bit would be a step in the right direction.
What I would find really useful is a 'VACUUM...WITH HISORY' which wrote the
underlying details of VACUUM VERBOSE to a 'pg_vacuum_history' table.
-
On Mon, 09 Dec 2002 19:10:23 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
> Philip Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> I think it would be worth looking at removing max_fsm_tables as a
>> tuning option, and adding a 'relhasfsm' flag to pg_class for those
>> tables that should not be mapped. Default to 't'. Then, make
At 01:22 PM 9/12/2002 -0800, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
Hmmm...I'm not certain that the \d commands really NEED to have a logical
link to the actual thing you're listing.
This is the perspective a person with good memory, unlike me. In find it
useful to be able to derive commands from commo
At 08:39 PM 9/12/2002 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
A VACUUM
done just after startup does not have any historical info to base this
decision on.
The actual order is:
start
delete
vacuum;
insert <- does not use free space
vacuum;
insert <- does not use free space
vacuum;
vacuum;
insert <- uses free spa
Tom Lane wrote:
> Josh Berkus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > First off, I'd like to ask everyone to CUT IT OUT WITH THE $^*&^@** FLAMING,
> > ALREADY! People are *attacking* each other instead of disagreeing.
>
> Amen. This was first time 'round for the advocacy group, and it's not
> surprisi
Tom Lane wrote:
Scott Shattuck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Willing to learn here but skipping a vacuum full has caused some issues
for us. Here's some data from a recent 3 day test run that was done with
regular vacuums but not vacuum fulls. When running with vacuum full the
indexes remain in
Philip Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Secondly, an empty database contains 98 tables, so the default setting of
> max_fsm_pages to 100 is way too low.
Only 37 of them need FSM entries, but still a good point; we should
probably bump it up to 1000 to be more realistic.
> oddly (bug? edge be
Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
> We could do DESCRIBE commands as well. Also, what happened to the
> INFORMATION_SCHEMA proposal? Wasn't Peter E doing something with that?
> What happened to it?
>
> > The issue here is what do we do with the existing "\d[istvS]" behavior
> > (for instance, "\dsi
At 12:17 PM 10/12/2002 +1100, Philip Warner wrote:
Secondly, an empty database contains 98 tables,
Corrected based on Tom's later mail; from the FSM PoV, it contains 37
(indices don't count). So it is exhausted when more than two DBs are created.
-
At 07:01 PM 9/12/2002 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
We
could make the constraint be on total space for relation entries + page
entries rather than either individually, but I think that'd mostly make
it harder to interpret the config setting rather than offer any real
ease of administration.
Perhaps doi
Philip Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> At 03:54 PM 9/12/2002 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
>> FSM entries aren't needed for sequences either, so more correct is
>>
>> select count(*) from pg_class where relkind in ('r', 't');
> presumably:
> select count(*) from pg_class where relkind in ('r
It should have worked, but edit Makefile.shlib and remove that offending
export from the link line. That may fix it.
---
Shibashish wrote:
> Dear Sir,
>
> I use SCO Open Server 5.0.5 on an intel box. Although I have instal
Josh Berkus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> First off, I'd like to ask everyone to CUT IT OUT WITH THE $^*&^@** FLAMING,
> ALREADY! People are *attacking* each other instead of disagreeing.
Amen. This was first time 'round for the advocacy group, and it's not
surprising that there are some thing
At 03:54 PM 9/12/2002 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
FSM entries aren't needed for sequences either, so more correct is
select count(*) from pg_class where relkind in ('r', 't');
presumably:
select count(*) from pg_class where relkind in ('r', 't', 'i');
On Mon, 2002-12-09 at 19:04, Tom Lane wrote:
> Patrick Welche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > test=# select value from amount;
> > server closed the connection unexpectedly
>
> This is a known bug also (in the domain-constraint patch, which has
> turned VALUE into a reserved word, a rather unpleas
Peter, Robert, Jason, Vince, Justin, et al.:
First off, I'd like to ask everyone to CUT IT OUT WITH THE $^*&^@** FLAMING,
ALREADY! People are *attacking* each other instead of disagreeing.
Several posters seem to be taking to opportunity to say everything in the
most insulting way possible,
Patrick Welche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> test=# select value from amount;
> server closed the connection unexpectedly
This is a known bug also (in the domain-constraint patch, which has
turned VALUE into a reserved word, a rather unpleasant price to pay
for the feature IMHO). Rod claimed his
Philip Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I think it would be worth looking at removing max_fsm_tables as a tuning
> option, and adding a 'relhasfsm' flag to pg_class for those tables that
> should not be mapped. Default to 't'. Then, make the table grow dynamically
> as tables are added, or w
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
Press release:
- Supports data in many international characters sets (UNICODE, EUC_JP,
EUC_CN, EUC_KR, JOHAB, EUC_TW, ISO 8859-1 ECMA-94, KOI8, WIN1256, etc...)
That is just plain wrong. Support for various character sets is years
old.
Sure is. Noti
At 02:46 PM 9/12/2002 -0500, Robert Treat wrote:
getting this info into the standard documentation and/or Bruce's tuning
guide.
I'd vote for the standard docs since it is sufficiently basic as to be
needed by most users. We either need a tuning chapter or a new section in
runtime configuration
At 03:54 PM 9/12/2002 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
However, I suspect that the present FSM code is not very effective at
deciding *which* tables to track if it has too few slots,
You are definitely right there.
I think it would be worth looking at removing max_fsm_tables as a tuning
option, and addi
Using cvs source of Dec 4 15:13:
test=# \d amount
Table "public.amount"
Column | Type | Modifiers
+-+
id | integer | not null default nextval('p
Scott Shattuck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Willing to learn here but skipping a vacuum full has caused some issues
> for us. Here's some data from a recent 3 day test run that was done with
> regular vacuums but not vacuum fulls. When running with vacuum full the
> indexes remain in line:
> n
At 05:13 PM 9/12/2002 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
Seems like a fine idea to me.
Ditto.
"\D" works though.)
Any objections out there?
My only complaint here is being forced to use the 'shift' key on commands
that will be common. I would prefer any other lower case char: \b, \j, \k ,
\m, \n, \
s'alright, the 'fiefdoms' are about to be nuked :)
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Robert Treat wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-12-05 at 03:28, Dave Page wrote:
> > www is a closed group consisting of a few of us who actually do the work
> > on the sites.
>
> This is one of the primary reasons the sites are so fractu
On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> > Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> > > Marc G. Fournier writes:
> > >
> > > > It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a
> > > > stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the
On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Thomas O'Connell wrote:
> I was surprised, for instance, to receive a non-list email announcing
> the release of the software but then to have to wait for days actually
> to see it show up on the official (or even the advocacy) website in a
> news item. Even now it is not liste
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Tom Lane wrote:
> I tend to agree with Peter. Not that we don't need a marketing
> presence; we do (I think Great Bridge's marketing efforts are sorely
> missed). But the point he is making is that the pgsql mailing lists go
> to people who are generally unimpressed by market
Hannu Krosing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Why not use \D for "long" ids ?
Seems like a fine idea to me. (I had actually started to think of
"\s" for "show", but was just observing that that would
create conflicts against existing commands, when your message arrived.
"\D" works though.)
Any obj
Tom Lane wrote:
Scott Shattuck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Robert Treat wrote:
I don't think this is entirely true. On tables that have large numbers
of inserts, but no updates or deletes, you do not need to run vacuum.
In my experience I've seen tables with numerous indexes continue to
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/wh/prod/p3.html
"MySQL® is considered the most popular open source database in the world. Fast and
powerful, it is perfect for high-traffic, heavy-load sites."
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Tom Lane wrote:
> as a result of their individual contributions). So ISTM such a
> reorganization would leave the core committee as a figurehead and make
> the release team into the effective new core.
I thought we were already only figureheads? ;-)
--
Bruce Momjian|
Added to /contrib/start-scripts as:
PostgreSQL.darwin StartupParameters.plist.darwin
Thanks.
---
David Wheeler wrote:
> All,
>
> I've simplified the Darwin/Mac OS X startup script I submitted earlie
Tom Lane kirjutas T, 10.12.2002 kell 02:05:
> [ moved to hackers from pgsql-patches ]
>
> "Christopher Kings-Lynne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Peter wrote:
> >> Christopher Kings-Lynne writes:
> >>> \dc - list conversions [PATTERN]
> >>> \dC - list casts
> >>
> >> What are we going to use fo
> ... and that was already proposed for "show schemas" (namespaces).
>
> I'm inclined to think it's time to bite the bullet and go over to
> words rather than single characters to identify the \d target
> (viz, "\dschema", "\dcast", etc, presumably with unique abbreviations
> being allowed, as well
Rod Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I'd like ALTER SEQUENCE to be transaction safe.
I think that's inherently impossible without breaking the existing
behavior of setval/nextval, which is something we will not accept.
ALTER SEQUENCE would be better thought of as a form of setval with
even mor
Rod Taylor kirjutas T, 10.12.2002 kell 01:49:
> Below is a short list of TODOs on sequences I wish to tackle over the
> next week.
...
> Ok, this is where it gets confusing. Right now setval() is implemented
> in such a manner that it cannot be rolled back (see SETVAL NOTE below),
> but I'd like A
Scott Shattuck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Robert Treat wrote:
>> I don't think this is entirely true. On tables that have large numbers
>> of inserts, but no updates or deletes, you do not need to run vacuum.
> In my experience I've seen tables with numerous indexes continue to
> benefit great
[ moved to hackers from pgsql-patches ]
"Christopher Kings-Lynne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Peter wrote:
>> Christopher Kings-Lynne writes:
>>> \dc - list conversions [PATTERN]
>>> \dC - list casts
>>
>> What are we going to use for collations?
> \dn Is the only letter left in collations t
Robert Treat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 09:41, Philip Warner wrote:
>> First of all, the free space manager is useless at managing free space if
>> it can not map all relations (including system relations and toast
>> relations). The following query should give the correc
Below is a short list of TODOs on sequences I wish to tackle over the
next week.
CREATE SEQUENCE:
- Addition of NO MAXVALUE and NO MINVALUE options, which use the system
implementation settings -- for SQL2002 compliance, and makes ALTER
SEQUENCE slightly easier.
ALTER SEQUENCE:
- Supports RESTAR
Robert Treat wrote:
On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 09:41, Philip Warner wrote:
Any comments or suggestions would be welcome.
first and foremost, this is really excellent work! We need to look into
getting this info into the standard documentation and/or Bruce's tuning
guide.
Seconded!
Tuning
=
Peter,
> > I can definitely understand someone not wanting to *participate* in
> > marketing/advocacy of PostgreSQL. However, your being opposed to
> > promoting PostgreSQL as an organized activity *at all* baffles me. How
> > can you be against promoting PostgreSQL?
>
> I'm not against promot
On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 09:41, Philip Warner wrote:
> Any comments or suggestions would be welcome.
>
first and foremost, this is really excellent work! We need to look into
getting this info into the standard documentation and/or Bruce's tuning
guide.
>
> Tuning
> ==
>
> 1. max_fsm_relation
Josh Berkus writes:
> I can definitely understand someone not wanting to *participate* in
> marketing/advocacy of PostgreSQL. However, your being opposed to
> promoting PostgreSQL as an organized activity *at all* baffles me. How
> can you be against promoting PostgreSQL?
I'm not against promot
Jason Earl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Peter Eisentraut <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Compare the 7.3 release notes, written for the most part by Bruce
>> Momjian and revised by a couple of other developers, to the "press
>> release", written by people who were obviously ill-informed.
> So does
Tom Lane wrote:
> Bruce Momjian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > You would think that would catch it. My problem is that I am compiling
> > with -O0, because I compile all day and I don't care about optimization.
>
> You should reconsider that. At -O0 gcc doesn't do any flow analysis,
> and thus
Peter Eisentraut <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Robert Treat writes:
>
> > I think we've already shown why it doesn't hurt to market to the
> > converted. I'll add that if you compare the 7.2 press release with the
> > 7.3 press release, you'll see none of the technical content was removed.
>
> C
On Monday 09 December 2002 12:50, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Compare the 7.3 release notes, written for the most part by Bruce
> Momjian and revised by a couple of other developers, to the "press
> release", written by people who were obviously ill-informed.
If people want to see the details, let t
Joe Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Yes, this is exactly what I was yearning to do. Was there a spec or technical
> reason (or both) for not allowing the following?
>select * from array_values(g.grolist), pg_group g where g.groname = 'g2';
This seems fairly unworkable to me as-is. By de
I didn't read my email this weekend, so I am sorry to be late getting
back to you on this.
First, let me say I am excited about this patch. Several people have
asked for IPv6 support, but you are the first person to actually submit
a patch for it.
I want to comment on the patch a bit because IP
thanks
On 9 Dec 2002, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, 2002-12-09 at 10:24, SEGUERRA FRANCIS TED ARANAS wrote:
>
> > how do i port from mysql to postgresql?..
>
> http://techdocs.postgresql.org/#convertfrom
>
> Best regards,
> .
>
>
--
ov3rr|d3r
---(en
Thanks. Applied for 7.3.1.
---
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Bruce Momjian writes:
>
> > Peter, is that patch OK for 7.3.1? I am not sure.
>
> Definitely. It's a bug fix.
>
> --
> Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Robert Treat writes:
> I think we've already shown why it doesn't hurt to market to the
> converted. I'll add that if you compare the 7.2 press release with the
> 7.3 press release, you'll see none of the technical content was removed.
Compare the 7.3 release notes, written for the most part by B
Bruce Momjian writes:
> Peter, is that patch OK for 7.3.1? I am not sure.
Definitely. It's a bug fix.
--
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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(se
Peter, is that patch OK for 7.3.1? I am not sure.
---
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Bruce Momjian writes:
>
> > I am not going to apply this patch because I think it will mess up the
> > handling of other locales.
>
> This pa
Vince,
> Here are my main problems with it.
>
> 1) They're marketing to those that are already sold on it.
First off ... not "they", "you". I'm a member of Advocacy; so are
Robert, Justin, Neil, Marc, Bruce and several other members of this
list. The advocacy group is not some privately spons
"Dan Langille" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Let's create a release team. This strategy is one well established
> in other projects and in industry. For lack of a better starting
> reference, let me suggest http://www.freebsd.org/releng/charter.html
> as a starting point for consideration. Se
Vince Vielhaber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 1) They're marketing to those that are already sold on it.
I think the upshot of the prior discussion was that the outside press
release shouldn't have been used as the release announcement for the
existing mailing lists. Fine, they made a one-time mi
Does anybody know where I can find a newer DBD::Pg module for Windows
NT? The only pre-compiled one I can find is 0.98, which is based on a
PostgreSQL 7.0 library set.
--
Rod Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
PGP Key: http://www.rbt.ca/rbtpub.asc
signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signe
On Mon, 09 Dec 2002 07:29:55 -0500, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Josh Berkus wrote:
>
>> But once Postgres has been packaged, we need to have a group making a
>> loud enough noise to get the world to pay attention. I'm not asking
>> everyone on this list to participate, but I am
On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Josh Berkus wrote:
> But once Postgres has been packaged, we need to have a group making a
> loud enough noise to get the world to pay attention. I'm not asking
> everyone on this list to participate, but I am asking everyone on this
> list to recognize the utility of the eff
Joe Conway wrote:
> The second case is usually something like an insert into the employee table
> fires off an email to IT to create a login and security to make a badge.
> Commonly we turn off workflows (by disabling their related triggers) in our
> development and test databases so someone doe
On 9 Dec 2002 at 1:20, Kevin Brown wrote:
> 2. They need 24x7 support, and are convinced that they'll get better
> support for Oracle or DB2 than anything else.
I have experienced what oracle support means for 24x7. I wouldn't even wish
that penalty for my worst enemy.
I can tell a story a
Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Justin Clift wrote:
>
> > Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> > > On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Robert Treat wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Well, my previous employer uses postgresql, but they were under constant
> > >>assault from their clients to use oracle or db2. Technically
Hi,
On Mon, 2002-12-09 at 10:24, SEGUERRA FRANCIS TED ARANAS wrote:
> how do i port from mysql to postgresql?..
http://techdocs.postgresql.org/#convertfrom
Best regards,
.
--
Devrim GUNDUZ
TR.NET Sistem Destek Uzmani
Tel : (312) 295 93 18 Fax : (312) 295 94 94 Tel : (216) 542 90 00
-
how do i port from mysql to postgresql?...
thanks bruce,
francis
--
ov3rr|d3r
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TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Hi Tommi,
Tommi Maekitalo wrote:
Hi,
there are lots of sites talking about postgresql. But if someone hear about
postgresql he sure tries www.postgresql.org. There he just get a list of
mirrors. Not really a good start. But worse: there is no links to gborg,
advocacy, techdocs, ... Advocacy
Am Donnerstag, 5. Dezember 2002 05:22 schrieb Lamar Owen:
> [cc: list trimmed]
>
> On Wednesday 04 December 2002 22:52, Philip Warner wrote:
> > At 05:48 PM 4/12/2002 -0800, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
> > >Lack of marketing is one of Postgres's major problems.
> >
> > What are the consequences
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