Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-25 Thread Markus Wanner
Hi, On 08/21/2010 10:11 PM, Peter Geoghegan wrote: We changed 8.5 to 9.0 explicitly because doing so was good marketing, That's exactly how I see this as well. The current scheme allows for some flexibility for marketing purposes while still being self-consistent and logical in numbering.

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-22 Thread Sergio A. Kessler
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Greg Stark gsst...@mit.edu wrote: On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 4:29 AM, Sergio A. Kessler sergiokess...@gmail.com wrote: on every single planet of the universe, except the one called postgrearth, whose inhabitants breathe sql and eat messages from postgresql

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Sergio A. Kessler
The current system give people the completely false impression that 7.0 and 7.4 are somehow similar. On what planet? on every single planet of the universe, except the one called postgrearth, whose inhabitants breathe sql and eat messages from postgresql mailing lists... :-) most people I

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Stefan Kaltenbrunner
On 08/20/2010 09:04 PM, David E. Wheeler wrote: On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:02 PM, Greg Stark wrote: Again, it means the format would be consistent. Always three integers. Nice thing about Semantic Versions is that if you append any ASCII string to the third integer, it automatically means less

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Aug 21, 2010, at 1:45 AM, Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote: hmm FWIW I would interpret something like 9.0.1B4 as the forth beta release for the first point release of the major release 9.0 bis seems stupid and is not anything we have done before. It does't make sense for PostgreSQL, no. You

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Greg Stark
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 4:29 AM, Sergio A. Kessler sergiokess...@gmail.com wrote: on every single planet of the universe, except the one called postgrearth, whose inhabitants breathe sql and eat messages from postgresql mailing lists... :-) most people I know, think 8.1 is just 8.0 with some

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Sat, 2010-08-21 at 17:00 +0100, Greg Stark wrote: On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 4:29 AM, Sergio A. Kessler sergiokess...@gmail.com wrote: on every single planet of the universe, except the one called postgrearth, whose inhabitants breathe sql and eat messages from postgresql mailing lists...

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Tom Lane
Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com writes: PostgreSQL is a user space project. Yes we have a solid core of -hackers but our wider use is a place where hackers don't exist. User space developers do. I.e; PHP people. This is utter nonsense. We're a database, not a desktop. People who even

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Greg Stark
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com wrote: There was *NEVER* a Windows NT 4.0.x, there was Windows NT 4.0 SP2. I'm not sure what you're point is here. There was a NT 4.0 followed by SP1 through SP6. followed by NT 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 6.0, 6.1, and 7.0. They also

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Sat, 2010-08-21 at 13:12 -0400, Tom Lane wrote: Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com writes: PostgreSQL is a user space project. Yes we have a solid core of -hackers but our wider use is a place where hackers don't exist. User space developers do. I.e; PHP people. This is utter

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread David Fetter
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 03:34:35AM -, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: It's possible that we're arguing for the sake of arguing No it's not! ;) Yes it is! ;) It's nice to be able to keep track of the major version number without running out of fingers (at least for a few more years) and

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Greg Stark
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com wrote: PostgreSQL is a user space project. Yes we have a solid core of -hackers but our wider use is a place where hackers don't exist. User space developers do. I.e; PHP people. Uhm

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Greg Stark
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Greg Stark gsst...@mit.edu wrote: I'm not sure what you're point is here. Argh! This thread is almost enough to make me believe in adding recalls to smtp. I can't even blame this one on my flaky keyboard this time. -- greg -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Sat, 2010-08-21 at 18:24 +0100, Greg Stark wrote: On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com wrote: There was *NEVER* a Windows NT 4.0.x, there was Windows NT 4.0 SP2. I'm not sure what you're point is here. There was a NT 4.0 followed by SP1 through SP6.

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Sat, 2010-08-21 at 18:35 +0100, Greg Stark wrote: On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 6:24 PM, Greg Stark gsst...@mit.edu wrote: I'm not sure what you're point is here. Argh! This thread is almost enough to make me believe in adding recalls to smtp. I can't even blame this one on my flaky keyboard

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Greg Stark
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com wrote: Q. Do we have a problem? A. Some of our contributors, even some very experienced contributors feel we do. Q. What is the problem we are trying to solve? A. That users, especially those that are less technical are

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Peter Geoghegan
Or at least to RTFM if they don't. If this were true, this thread wouldn't be as long as it is, nor would our mailing lists be anywhere near as busy as they are. This thread is as long as it is principally because people generally bikeshed about things that are easy to understand, and are fun

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-21 Thread Wolfgang Wilhelm
I don´t have any problem with PostgreSQL version numbering, to the contrary. The only thing I didn´t like was Postgres95, but I didn´t use Pg then. But since then it´s _consistent_ and I really appreciate that. I could live with, say, version 9.12.0 in a dozend years. I accept the alpha, beta

[HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David E. Wheeler
Hackers, A while ago, I asked if .0 releases could be versioned with three digits instead of two. That is, it would be 8.4.0 instead of 8.4. This is to make the format consistent with maintenance releases (8.4.1, etc.). I thought this was generally agreed upon, but maybe not, because I just

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David Fetter
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 11:12:56AM -0700, David Wheeler wrote: Hackers, A while ago, I asked if .0 releases could be versioned with three digits instead of two. That is, it would be 8.4.0 instead of 8.4. This is to make the format consistent with maintenance releases (8.4.1, etc.). I

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Aug 20, 2010, at 11:34 AM, David Fetter wrote: +1 for three-number versions...well, until we really see the light and go to two-number versions. 8.3 and 8.4 are different enough that they shouldn't even mildly appear the same, for example. No idea what you mean by that, but generally it's

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Tom Lane
David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: A while ago, I asked if .0 releases could be versioned with three digits instead of two. That is, it would be 8.4.0 instead of 8.4. We've been doing that for some time, no? A quick look at the CVS history shows that 8.0.0 and up were tagged that

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Aug 20, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Tom Lane wrote: David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: A while ago, I asked if .0 releases could be versioned with three digits instead of two. That is, it would be 8.4.0 instead of 8.4. We've been doing that for some time, no? A quick look at the CVS

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David Fetter
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 11:36:55AM -0700, David Wheeler wrote: On Aug 20, 2010, at 11:34 AM, David Fetter wrote: +1 for three-number versions...well, until we really see the light and go to two-number versions. 8.3 and 8.4 are different enough that they shouldn't even mildly appear the

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Aug 20, 2010, at 11:47 AM, David Fetter wrote: No idea what you mean by that, but generally it's a bad idea to switch from dotted-integer version numbers and numeric version numbers. See Perl (Quel désastre!). I'm thinking that after 9.0, the first release of the next major version

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Greg Stark
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 7:34 PM, David Fetter da...@fetter.org wrote: +1 for three-number versions...well, until we really see the light and go to two-number versions.  8.3 and 8.4 are different enough that they shouldn't even mildly appear the same, for example. You realize if we did that 9.0

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Greg Stark
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 7:42 PM, David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com wrote: Again, it means the format would be consistent. Always three integers. Nice thing about Semantic Versions is that if you append any ASCII string to the third integer, it automatically means less than that integer.

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:02 PM, Greg Stark wrote: Again, it means the format would be consistent. Always three integers. Nice thing about Semantic Versions is that if you append any ASCII string to the third integer, it automatically means less than that integer. So I count three integers

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Tom Lane
David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:02 PM, Greg Stark wrote: So I count three integers in both 9.0rc1 and 9.0beta4 No, I mean 9.0.0beta4. If we were to adopt the Semantic Versioning spec, one would *always* use X.Y.Z, with optional ASCII characters appended

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:15 PM, Tom Lane wrote: No, I mean 9.0.0beta4. If we were to adopt the Semantic Versioning spec, one would *always* use X.Y.Z, with optional ASCII characters appended to Z to add meaning (including less than unadorned Z). Well, I for one will fiercely resist adopting

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Devrim GÜNDÜZ
+1 for Tom's post. -- Devrim GÜNDÜZ PostgreSQL DBA @ Akinon/Markafoni, Red Hat Certified Engineer devrim~gunduz.org, devrim~PostgreSQL.org, devrim.gunduz~linux.org.tr http://www.gunduz.org Twitter: http://twitter.com/devrimgunduz 20.Ağu.2010 tarihinde 21:40 saatinde, Tom Lane

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Devrim GÜNDÜZ
20.Ağu.2010 tarihinde 21:47 saatinde, David Fetter da...@fetter.org şunları yazdı: The current system give people the completely false impression that 7.0 and 7.4 are somehow similar. Well, I do find PostgreSQL versioning policy very good, which is pretty much similar to Linux. For me, 7.x

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Devrim GÜNDÜZ wrote: +1 for Tom's post. 20.Ağu.2010 tarihinde 21:40 saatinde, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us şunları yazdı: .0 is for releases, not betas. I see no need for an extra number in beta versions. Yes, well, it's still implicit, isn't it? David

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Stephen Frost
* David E. Wheeler (da...@kineticode.com) wrote: On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Devrim GÜNDÜZ wrote: +1 for Tom's post. 20.Ağu.2010 tarihinde 21:40 saatinde, Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us şunları yazdı: .0 is for releases, not betas. I see no need for an extra number in beta

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Kevin Grittner
David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com wrote: .0 is for releases, not betas. I see no need for an extra number in beta versions. Yes, well, it's still implicit, isn't it? Not the way I read it. If we had a development cycle which resulted in 8.4.5beta4, then you would have a point. We

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Josh Berkus
Yes, well, it's still implicit, isn't it? But the last .0 in 9.0.0 is the patch level, effectively. This makes that .0 inappropriate for betas; the beta number is the patch level, i.e. 9.0.beta4. It doesn't make any sense to have a 9.0.0beta4, since we're never going to have a 9.0.2beta4.

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Devrim GÜNDÜZ
20.Ağu.2010 tarihinde 23:03 saatinde, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com şunları yazdı: The betas are pre-.0. Maybe we should have 9.0.(-3) instead. Or 8.9.97? ;-) This is pretty much what Fedora does actually :-) -- Devrim GÜNDÜZ PostgreSQL DBA @ Akinon/Markafoni, Red Hat Certified

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David Fetter
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 07:59:55PM +0100, Greg Stark wrote: On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 7:34 PM, David Fetter da...@fetter.org wrote: +1 for three-number versions...well, until we really see the light and go to two-number versions.  8.3 and 8.4 are different enough that they shouldn't even

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David Fetter
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 11:48:12AM -0700, David Wheeler wrote: On Aug 20, 2010, at 11:47 AM, David Fetter wrote: No idea what you mean by that, but generally it's a bad idea to switch from dotted-integer version numbers and numeric version numbers. See Perl (Quel désastre!). I'm

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Tom Lane
David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com writes: On Aug 20, 2010, at 12:15 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Well, I for one will fiercely resist adopting any such standard, because it's directly opposite to the way that RPM will sort such version numbers. Which is how? 9.0.0 is less than 9.0.0anything.

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Greg Sabino Mullane
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 David Wheeler: No idea what you mean by that, but generally it's a bad idea to switch from dotted-integer version numbers and numeric version numbers. See Perl (Quel dsastre!). Yeah, I think Perl is a prime example of how NOT to handle

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Aidan Van Dyk
* Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us [100820 17:10]: BTW, 9.0.0 is also less than 9.0.0.anything ... so sticking another dot in there wouldn't help. Debian's packaging versions work around this with the special ~ character, which they define as sorting *before* nothing, meaning 8.4~beta1

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Fri, 2010-08-20 at 21:17 +, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: David Fetter: We're using Postgre 8 See also all the flocks of tools that claim to support Postgres 8 Flocks? Handful at best, and no reason we should be catering to their inaccuracies. Depends on the goal. If our goal

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Aug 20, 2010, at 2:10 PM, Tom Lane wrote: 9.0.0 is less than 9.0.0anything. Unless you wire some specific knowledge of semantics of particular letter-strings into the comparison algorithm, it's difficult to come to another decision, IMO. That's what Semantic versions do. From the spec's

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Jaime Casanova
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 1:48 PM, David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com wrote: On Aug 20, 2010, at 11:47 AM, David Fetter wrote: The current system give people the completely false impression that 7.0 and 7.4 are somehow similar. On what planet? Look at other DBMSes: Oracle: 8i, 9i, 10g,

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David Fetter
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 04:41:20PM -0500, Jaime Casanova wrote: On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 1:48 PM, David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com wrote: On Aug 20, 2010, at 11:47 AM, David Fetter wrote: The current system give people the completely false impression that 7.0 and 7.4 are somehow

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Greg Stark
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Jaime Casanova ja...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: Look at other DBMSes: Oracle: 8i, 9i, 10g, 11g Informix 9, 10, 11 MS SQL Server 7, 2000, 2005, 2008 note the lack of dotes (and even if they actually have dots, those are minor versions). So your proposal is

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Jaime Casanova
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Greg Stark gsst...@mit.edu wrote: On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Jaime Casanova ja...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: Look at other DBMSes: Oracle: 8i, 9i, 10g, 11g Informix 9, 10, 11 MS SQL Server 7, 2000, 2005, 2008 note the lack of dotes (and even if they

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Greg Stark
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Jaime Casanova ja...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: In any case those are all marketing brand names. The actual releases do in fact have real version numbers and no, they aren't all minor releases. Oracle 8i was 8.1.x which was indeed a major release over 8.0.

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Robert Haas
On Aug 20, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Jaime Casanova ja...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Greg Stark gsst...@mit.edu wrote: On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Jaime Casanova ja...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: Look at other DBMSes: Oracle: 8i, 9i, 10g, 11g Informix 9, 10, 11 MS SQL

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Thom Brown
On 20 August 2010 23:10, Robert Haas robertmh...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 20, 2010, at 5:55 PM, Jaime Casanova ja...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Greg Stark gsst...@mit.edu wrote: On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Jaime Casanova ja...@2ndquadrant.com wrote: Look at

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Fri, 2010-08-20 at 18:10 -0400, Robert Haas wrote: Maybe we can give marketing brand names to every new version so people is not confused by numbers... Ah, yes. Because it's so intuitive that Windows 7 comes after Windows 95... :-) Not really a comparable argument. I find it

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Josh Berkus
Not really a comparable argument. I find it interesting that people are making logical arguments about something that is clearly not in the logical realm. This is marketing people. Then why are we discussing it on -hackers? -- -- Josh Berkus

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Fri, 2010-08-20 at 15:41 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: Not really a comparable argument. I find it interesting that people are making logical arguments about something that is clearly not in the logical realm. This is marketing people. Then why are we discussing it on -hackers? Good

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Greg Sabino Mullane
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Then why are we discussing it on -hackers? Because you will need buy in from the hackers if you ever want to do something as radical as change to a two-number, one dot system (or some the slightly less radical earlier suggestions). For the

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Greg Sabino Mullane
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Flocks? Handful at best, and no reason we should be catering to their inaccuracies. Depends on the goal. If our goal is to continue to add confusion to the masses of users we have, you are correct. If our goal is to simplify the ability

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Greg Sabino Mullane
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Look at other DBMSes: Oracle: 8i, 9i, 10g, 11g Informix 9, 10, 11 MS SQL Server 7, 2000, 2005, 2008 is not only confusing but make people think we are somehow behind the others... someone actually told me that Oracle is in version 11 we

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Sat, 2010-08-21 at 01:31 +, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Flocks? Handful at best, and no reason we should be catering to their inaccuracies. Depends on the goal. If our goal is to continue to add confusion to the masses of

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Joshua D. Drake
On Sat, 2010-08-21 at 01:36 +, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 Look at other DBMSes: Oracle: 8i, 9i, 10g, 11g Informix 9, 10, 11 MS SQL Server 7, 2000, 2005, 2008 is not only confusing but make people think we are somehow behind

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Aug 20, 2010, at 5:38 PM, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: Then why are we discussing it on -hackers? Because you will need buy in from the hackers if you ever want to do something as radical as change to a two-number, one dot system (or some the slightly less radical earlier suggestions).

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 2:12 PM, David E. Wheeler da...@kineticode.com wrote: Would it be possible to *always* use three integers? So the next release would be 9.0.0beta5 or 9.0.0rc1? In addition to being more consistent, it also means that PostgreSQL would be adhering to Semantic Versioning

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Aug 20, 2010, at 7:49 PM, Robert Haas wrote: I think the semantic versioning approach makes sense for libraries, but it is not too clear to me that it makes sense for other kinds of applications. YMMV, of course. Yeah, I'm more concerned about determining dependencies in extensions and

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Robert Haas
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com wrote: True, we don't always have the best track record for bumping major releases. (ponders) Hmmm...I'm rethinking my immediate rejection of the idea now. 7.3 to 7.4 should have been 7.3 to 8.0. Certainly it was more

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering

2010-08-20 Thread Greg Sabino Mullane
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 It's possible that we're arguing for the sake of arguing No it's not! ;) It's nice to be able to keep track of the major version number without running out of fingers (at least for a few more years) and it's nice to be able

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-08-01 Thread Hans-Jürgen Schönig
Joshua D. Drake wrote: Hello, Version 7.5 is as close to a major release as I have seen in the almost 9 years I have been using PostgreSQL. This release brings about a lot of enterprise features that have been holding back PostgreSQL in a big way for for a long time. All of my serious

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-08-01 Thread Gaetano Mendola
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Alvaro Herrera wrote: What was the rule for increasing the first number after just before 7.0? That was just to avoid having to release a 6.6.6, which Jan had clearly been working towards. :-) Seriously, major version jumps correspond to epoch-like changes, like when

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-08-01 Thread Bruno Wolff III
On Sat, Jul 31, 2004 at 22:40:52 -0700, Steve Atkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 8.0.0 suggests, to my customers at least, a brand new release with either massive re-architecting, many new features or both and that's likely to be riddled with bugs. While it would be unlikely that we'd ship

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-08-01 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Alvaro Herrera wrote: What was the rule for increasing the first number after just before 7.0? That was just to avoid having to release a 6.6.6, which Jan had clearly been working towards. :-) Seriously, major version jumps correspond to epoch-like

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-08-01 Thread Josh Berkus
Peter, Eventually we'll do the Sun switcheroo and follow release 7.12 by 13.0. Even better, we can have two different, parallel version numbers, so that the next version can be 7.5 *and* 13.0. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco ---(end of

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-08-01 Thread Christopher Browne
After takin a swig o' Arrakan spice grog, Gaetano Mendola [EMAIL PROTECTED] belched out: Peter Eisentraut wrote: Alvaro Herrera wrote: What was the rule for increasing the first number after just before 7.0? That was just to avoid having to release a 6.6.6, which Jan had clearly been

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-08-01 Thread Gaetano Mendola
Christopher Browne wrote: After takin a swig o' Arrakan spice grog, Gaetano Mendola [EMAIL PROTECTED] belched out: Peter Eisentraut wrote: Alvaro Herrera wrote: What was the rule for increasing the first number after just before 7.0? That was just to avoid having to release a 6.6.6, which Jan

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-08-01 Thread Tom Lane
Christopher Browne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think that the set of new features here will fairly likely warrant the 8.0 moniker; the 'consistent' way to go would be to call this version 7.5, and then 8.0 would soon follow, and be the release where some degree of improved maturity has been

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-08-01 Thread Doug McNaught
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Huh? That is exactly counter to most people's expectations about version numbering. N.0 is the unstable release, N.1 is the one with some bugs shaken out. If we release a 7.5 people will expect it to be less buggy than 7.4, and I'm not sure we can promise

[HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Josh Berkus
Folks, Well, we're past feature freeze and with one reservation we know what's in the next version. After talking to several people at OSCON, I want to revive a discussion: whether this is 7.5 or 8.0. We tabled that discussion in April pending a feature list. Even if Savepoints don't make

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Josh Berkus wrote: This is more features worth mentioning than we've ever had in a single release before We've also never had a single release before that had its version number jump determined by the number of features. I talked to a few of our people at OSCON who agreed with me. We'd

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Josh Berkus
Peter, We've also never had a single release before that had its version number jump determined by the number of features. That's a non-argument, Peter; we don't have any clear criteria for version number jump. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Josh Berkus wrote: We've also never had a single release before that had its version number jump determined by the number of features. That's a non-argument, Peter; we don't have any clear criteria for version number jump. Oh yes, we have very clear criteria: For patch releases, we

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Josh Berkus
Peter, Oh yes, we have very clear criteria: For patch releases, we increase the third number, for feature releases we increase the second number and set the third number to zero. Clear enough? So, as far as you're concerned, there will never ever be an 8.0. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Alvaro Herrera
On Sun, Aug 01, 2004 at 12:02:47AM +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Josh Berkus wrote: We've also never had a single release before that had its version number jump determined by the number of features. That's a non-argument, Peter; we don't have any clear criteria for version number

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Josh Berkus wrote: So, as far as you're concerned, there will never ever be an 8.0. Eventually we'll do the Sun switcheroo and follow release 7.12 by 13.0. -- Peter Eisentraut http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/ ---(end of broadcast)---

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Alvaro Herrera wrote: What was the rule for increasing the first number after just before 7.0? That was just to avoid having to release a 6.6.6, which Jan had clearly been working towards. :-) Seriously, major version jumps correspond to epoch-like changes, like when the code moved out of

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Tom Lane
Josh Berkus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Even if Savepoints don't make it, we'll still have: Savepoints are in, as is exception-trapping in functions (at least plpgsql, the other PLs are on their own :-(). Some other major improvements you didn't mention: Cross-datatype comparisons are indexable

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Tom Lane
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alvaro Herrera wrote: What was the rule for increasing the first number after just before 7.0? That was just to avoid having to release a 6.6.6, which Jan had clearly been working towards. :-) AFAIR, we had informally been referring to that

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Bruce Momjian
I am fine with either numbering, but I think the 8.0 might make more sense. --- Tom Lane wrote: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alvaro Herrera wrote: What was the rule for increasing the first number after

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Hello, Version 7.5 is as close to a major release as I have seen in the almost 9 years I have been using PostgreSQL. This release brings about a lot of "enterprise" features that have been holding back PostgreSQL in a big way for for a long time. All of my serious customers; potential,

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Christopher Kings-Lynne
So, as far as you're concerned, there will never ever be an 8.0. Eventually we'll do the Sun switcheroo and follow release 7.12 by 13.0. How about 7.5i :) Chris ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Christopher Kings-Lynne
This is more features worth mentioning than we've ever had in a single release before -- and if you consider several add-ons which have been implemented/improved at the same time (Slony, PL/Java, etc.) it's even more momentous. If this isn't 8.0, then what will be? I tend to agree, and

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Bruce Momjian
Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: This is more features worth mentioning than we've ever had in a single release before -- and if you consider several add-ons which have been implemented/improved at the same time (Slony, PL/Java, etc.) it's even more momentous. If this isn't 8.0, then what

Re: [HACKERS] Version Numbering -- The great debate

2004-07-31 Thread Steve Atkins
On Sun, Aug 01, 2004 at 12:20:59PM +0800, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: This is more features worth mentioning than we've ever had in a single release before -- and if you consider several add-ons which have been implemented/improved at the same time (Slony, PL/Java, etc.) it's even more