epoch1970 wrote:
Difficult question IMHO.
A few things I would check right after wake-up :
- system time. If the clock is off then plenty of things can go wrong.
- system load. Perhaps the system is too busy for LMS to run well.
- network status and interface parameters. Perhaps the
tuc wrote:
Any ideas of other quirks to try?
Difficult question IMHO.
A few things I would check right after wake-up :
- system time. If the clock is off then plenty of things can go wrong.
- system load. Perhaps the system is too busy for LMS to run well.
- network status and interface
Hi there,
I use SvrPowerControl to go to suspend when players are idle. It works
beautifully. However sometimes after returning from suspend (with WoL)
silent patches lasting about half a second occur about every minute when
playing back music. I have tested that it has nothing to do with the
gharris999 wrote:
This is the ReallyPreventStandby code that checks to see if a player is
busy
Thanks very much for all the details, plenty of food for thought. I
beginning to wonder if my machine had a flaky moment or even my
observations weren't correct. I going to and have a play with your
sto wrote:
Really Prevent System Standby was orignially windows specific and it
was created by Gordon. I belive it went generic when Gordon removed the
code to run an action when the players weren't idle from
SvrPowerControl. This is why I'm asking the question here.
I wondering now is
sto wrote:
Thanks for the reply.
I've using the plugin Really Prevent System Standby to send a WOL to
keep my server awake. For some reason it only stops sending the WOL cmd
when the player is off, It thinks the player isn't idle when it's not
playing but on.
How does Really Prevent
Sorry for a simple question but I've trawled and searched this mammoth
thread and not found the answer.
What is the definition of Idle ?
My system(Ubuntu12.10 and 3xSBRs) only powers down when the players have
been switched off (player LED off) and not when they stopped
playing(player LED dull
Thanks for the reply.
I've using the plugin Really Prevent System Standby to send a WOL to
keep my server awake. For some reason it only stop sending the WOL cmd
when the player is off, It thinks the player isn't idle when it's not
playing but on.
How does Really Prevent System Standby or for
No idea, sorry. I am not using that plug-in. Isn't it a Windows thing?
And even though I am running LMS on a Windows machine, it works well
without.
mvordeme's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22892
ServerPowerControl works fine for me when the players are idle, but not
off. The server goes to sleep and wakes reliably, although I have not
exercised it extensively (I usual listen through mysb.com).
mikeh49's Profile:
Really Prevent System Standby was orignially windows specific and it
was created by Gordon. I belive it went generic when Gordon removed the
code to run an action when the players weren't idle from
SvrPowerControl. This is why I'm asking the question here.
I wondering now is SvrPowerCOntrol now
gharris999 wrote:
What do folks think would be the intelligent way to code that? WOL the
server whenever there's a play request and a server response times out?
WOL on error seems to me the idea. I've been doing this from an appletv
(the hackable, os X based v1) to WOL on NFS access errors.
epoch1970 wrote:
WOL on error seems to me the idea. I've been doing this from an appletv
(the hackable, os X based v1) to WOL on NFS access errors. Years on,
nobody complains.
It's an external process monitoring rise in the NFS error rate every
minute, so it is kind of slow to react. If
Some of you may have tried and failed to use Squeezeplay to wake (from
hibernation or suspension) a server managed by SvrPowerControl. I have
a desktop PC on which I occasionally run Squeezeplay, and it works fine,
waking the server as expected.
I also have a laptop, running Linux, on which I
PasTim wrote:
Some of you may have tried and failed to use Squeezeplay to wake (from
hibernation or suspension) a server managed by SvrPowerControl. I have
a desktop PC on which I occasionally run Squeezeplay, and it works fine,
waking the server as expected.
I also have a laptop,
Still the same problem after deleting and re-registering at my
squeezebox.com :(
Roger the Shrubber's Profile:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=739
View this thread:
Roger the Shrubber wrote:
Still the same problem after deleting and re-registering at my
squeezebox.com :(
Please switch the SrvrPowerCtrl logging to DEBUG and post the log
entries from an attempted round trip push to mysb.com and an attempted
pull back. Thanks.
epoch1970 wrote:
I had sticky players on mySB.com at a time, and I cured the problem by
deleting the players from my account, and then reconnecting them.
I don't think you need to register again, simply to rattach the player
to mySB.com.
I haven't done this in a long time (almost never use
Roger the Shrubber wrote:
That does not fix it :(
I really wonder what could have changed, since it has been working fine
for about 18 months.
I had sticky players on mySB.com at a time, and I cured the problem by
deleting the players from my account, and then reconnecting them.
I don't
Since yesterday, my 2 Squeezebox2 players do not seem to return to the
server when it wakes up in the morning. They remain connected to
mysqueezebox.com.
Is anyone else seeing this or did something suddenly go wrong with my
own setup?
Thanks!
gharris999 wrote:
... For the VDR stuff, are you using MythTV? I think that already
schedules wake-ups.
i used MythTV for a while but now using tvheadend.
tobitobsta's Profile:
Roger the Shrubber wrote:
Since yesterday, my 2 Squeezebox2 players do not seem to return to the
server when it wakes up in the morning. They remain connected to
mysqueezebox.com.
Is anyone else seeing this or did something suddenly go wrong with my
own setup?
Thanks!
In the
tobitobsta wrote:
i used MythTV for a while but now using tvheadend.
You should be able to do this fairly easily as long as you have a way to
get the time for the next video recording in epochtime from tvheadend.
The approach I would take would be to write a custom suspend script and
configure
gharris999 wrote:
In the SrvrPowerCtrl settings - On-wakeup Actions, try increasing the
Seconds to wait before trying to restore value. Sometimes, it can
take longer than the default 30 seconds for LMS to reestablish its
connection to mysqueezebox.com after the system wakes up. You can
I could realize everything as you recommend! So logging works. The flags
to prevent multiple instances are working. And the comparison of the
time between flag creation and end of script works as well!!
Thank you for your help!!!
Next thing i try is to set up are the wakeup timers for some
tobitobsta wrote:
I could realize everything as you recommend! So logging works. The flags
to prevent multiple instances are working. And the comparison of the
time between flag creation and end of script works as well!!
Thank you for your help!!!
Next thing i try is to set up are the
I think there is some progress here.
I intsalled the neweset beta and changed my script, that it exits with 0
for idle conditions and with 1 when busy.
Then i added the script to the /etc/sudoers like the others and added
the script to the Custom Idle check command:.
I dont think it was really
tobitobsta wrote:
2. is it possible to write everything comming from my script to a
log-file? Where is all the logging done? My
/var/log/squeezboxserver/srvrpowerctrl.log is still empty.
You could log on your own to syslog. I use this in shell scripts:
Code:
thank you guys for your help! I give it a try tomorrow! Maybe you are
right in giving the SrvPowerCtrl the master, but i was so glad that i
started to undertand what i was doing ;)
Thx again! I'll report how i fail! ;)
tobitobsta wrote:
Any suggestion how to do this? And be careful, i'm a newbie! ;)
Your script and srvPowerControl want to sleep the computer. You need to
have one master only (handling power state change), and make the other a
slave (providing advisory activity status.)
I think the script
I was going to post epoch1970's getalarms_2.pl script from 4 years
ago...which I think could do pretty much everything you'd need it to do
with some modifications. But I agree with his assessment: SrvrPowerCtrl
should be able to do all of that and more if you let it.
If you really, really,
Hi all,
i tried to find a solution via the thread-search but i failed.
I set up a home server which is running a couple of services (cups,
samba, LMS, etc.). To let the server suspend i used the
autosuspend-script from here (wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Skripte/AutoSuspend -
sorry that its german,...
Maybe something like this..
+---+
|Filename: Abomination.jpg |
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13718|
gharris999 wrote:
This is definitely a problem with the plugin: too many options and the
permutations and combinations of some of the selections can lead to
occasionally counter-intuitive results. But please remember that
practically each one of these options has been added to SrvrPowerCtrl
gharris999 wrote:
Maybe something like this..
Right-o.
13721
+---+
|Filename: Abomination2.jpg |
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13721|
Simon_rb wrote:
Hi,
I went over them settings again and again and again.. I didn't notice
the pull down menu that you select for shut down to
www.mysqueezebox.com. I thought it does this as alternative server
option was selected.
So my bad and sorry for being such a noob!!! Thanks for
gharris999 wrote:
But please remember that practically each one of these options has been
added to SrvrPowerCtrl because of specific user requests. And in the
past, when options have become redundant or obsolete, I actually have
removed some settings.
The SD vs Logi dilemma
I prefer the SD
Hi,
I went over them settings again and again and again.. I didn't notice
the pull down menu that you select for shut down to
www.mysqueezebox.com. I thought it does this as alternative server
option was selected.
So my bad and sorry for being such a noob!!! Thanks for looking over the
log and
This is my log..
13703
Hope this shows up what is happening .
cheers
+---+
|Filename: server log.txt |
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13703|
Simon_rb wrote:
This is my log..
13703
Hope this shows up what is happening .
cheersFrom your log, it looks like you have the on-idle action set to simply
shutdown, not shutdown to mysb.com.
i.e. your setting is szIdleWatchdogAction == shutdown
..rather than..
szIdleWatchdogAction
Thank you all for you replies.
I am using Windows 8 Release Preview and latest version of LMS. If I
select shutdown to www.mysqueezebox.com it works, however when it
automatically shuts down it doesn't. I'll get a log tomorrow for you..
Thanks again.
Oh and shame Logitech has discontinued
Simon_rb wrote:
Hi Mr G,
Everything still working well except I've noticed my players are not
pushed to mysqueezebox.com when the plugin turns the server off. They
seem to sit in limbo. (2 x Radios, 1 x Receiver and 1 x Touch). I
believe I have all the settings set correctly and played
Simon_rb wrote:
Hi Mr G,
Everything still working well except I've noticed my players are not
pushed to mysqueezebox.com when the plugin turns the server off. They
seem to sit in limbo. (2 x Radios, 1 x Receiver and 1 x Touch). I
believe I have all the settings set correctly and played
Simon_rb wrote:
my players are not pushed to mysqueezebox.com when the plugin turns the
server off. They seem to sit in limbo.
I've seen pushed players bouncing on a firewall :) Perhaps you could
check the router settings.
Hi Garry,
Everything still working well except I've noticed my players are not
pushed to mysqueezebox.com when the plugin turns the server off. They
seem to sit in limbo. (2 x Radios, 1 x Receiver and 1 x Touch). I
believe I have all the settings set correctly and played about with the
timings
05mattjax wrote:
Reboot server = Turns the computer running SBS off and on.
Restart SBS = Restarts SBS
No rescan of files occurrYou can easily add custom commands to the
SrvrPowerCtrl menu to initiate
a rescan. E.g.:
Label = Scan for new
Command = cli://rescan
Label = Full scan
I am new to this so pardon my silly question. What is the difference
between the 5th and 6th options: (5) Reboot server; (6) Restart
squeezeboxserver? Also, do either of these commands prompt an automatic
rescan of the files?
Rajani wrote:
I am new to this so pardon my silly question. What is the difference
between the 5th and 6th options: (5) Reboot server; (6) Restart
squeezeboxserver? Also, do either of these commands prompt an automatic
rescan of the files? (Question in the title appears the other way
Simon_rb wrote:
Hi Gordon,
Thank you for replying so quickly. A few days into your plugin now and
it's still working great! Thank you for enlightening me lol. I'll test
and let you know.
Thank you again for a great plugin.
Regards
I installed Windows 8 Release Preview and the plugin
I just installed the beta plugin on a new machine, for some testing
purposes.
I was used to the capabilities built into the stable version, but this
beta
wow.
Truly, an awesome plugin.
epoch1970's Profile:
I've installed the beta version and after a little tweaking I seem to be
able to switch players over to mysqueezebox.com, turn SBS off, turn the
Nas off and turn off all players with one press of the button on iPeng.
Just one thing of note. I appear to not be able to acces the 'extras'
menu on
05mattjax wrote:
I've installed the beta version and after a little tweaking I seem to be
able to switch players over to mysqueezebox.com, turn SBS off, turn the
Nas off and turn off all players with one press of the button on iPeng.
Just one thing of note. I appear to not be able to
05mattjax wrote:
To resolve this I have to do a hard reset on the iPhone which restarts
iPeng.PS: are you sure you really need to do a hard reset of the phone? I
would think that just killing iPeng and restarting it would do the
trick. See:
Great advice. Much appreciated. I think I'm there with this now. I'm
truly grateful for all your advice, you've saved me a lot of time and
I've gained very useful information. I wish I had taken the plunge a
while back and explored all of the additional 3rd party features
(Squeezebox has been my
Thanks for this information. Having enabled SrvrPowerCtrl on the
LMServer I can successfully shutdown/restart the nas remotely via iPeng
without changing any settings. What I can't do is once shutting down the
players (Touch and Radio) will not switch to Squeezenetwork. Would you
say the shutdown
05mattjax wrote:
Finally I guess as my Nas does not have WOL I can't start up the server
remotely via SrvrPowerCtrl - is this right? Thanks.No, but yes. The lack of
WOL on the ReadyNAS was a major disappointment
for me and one of the reasons why I was willing to give mine away. What
you
I added this to the bottom of the sbs pluggin page and hit apply:
http://srvrpowerctrl.googlecode.com/svn/repo.xml
Is this not the latest?
05mattjax's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39786
View
05mattjax wrote:
I added this to the bottom of the sbs pluggin page and hit apply:
http://srvrpowerctrl.googlecode.com/svn/repo.xml
Is this not the latest?
This one is simple enough, I think I can respond:
https://code.google.com/p/srvrpowerctrl/ wrote:
*Downloads* SrvrPowerCtrl can
epoch1970 wrote:
This one is simple enough, I think I can respond:
I'd say you want http://srvrpowerctrl.googlecode.com/svn/beta.xml
Yes, epoch1970 has it right. I've been remiss in not updating that
googlecode page since 2009. Sorry...been busy frying other fish. If
you look at the 1st
SrvrPowerCtrl - will my Netgear ReadyNas Duo support this plugin? Would
love to be able to turn off Nas remotely.
05mattjax's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39786
View this thread:
05mattjax wrote:
SrvrPowerCtrl - will my Netgear ReadyNas Duo support this plugin? Would
love to be able to turn off Nas remotely.Maybe. I gave my ReadyNAS 600 to my
nephew a few years ago so I can't
walk you through the steps. But at the very least, I think you'll need
to get root ssh
gharris999 wrote:
..and that's all there is to it. Your NAS power/mount state will now be
slaved to your Squeezebox power state.
Wow, thanks a bunch for the extended and documented reply. I'm going to
look into both plugins you suggested. The only LMS plugin I leverage in
my current setup
mfo wrote:
Hi Gordon,
I just discovered you plugin and I'm wondering if it could help me (I'm
suspecting it's a no but asking nonetheless, someone could have an idea
to help solve it).
I'm running an unusual setup to feed my SB (a radio and a boom):
- Machine hosting LMS is a Cubox from
Hi Gordon,
I just discovered you plugin and I'm wondering if it could help me (I'm
suspecting it's a no but asking nonetheless, someone could have an idea
to help solve it).
I'm running an unusual setup to feed my SB (a radio and a boom):
- Machine hosting LMS is a Cubox from SolidRun runnning a
gharris999 wrote:
Unless Windows 8 breaks code that was written for XP (and this would be
really unlike Microsoft to do so) the current crop of utilities
(SCPowerTool.exe, etc.) should work with Windows 8. We'll just have to
see. I'm fairly hopeful on this point. All the code that I wrote
mfo wrote:
#8230;
- Cubox doesn't have large disk space attached so my music files are
stored on a NAS (Iomega IX2-200 Cloud Edition)
- I have a NFS mount on Cubox to the NAS to give the LMS access to my
music files
- NAS is not always on (power consumption, heat dissipation, noise)
Hi,
I have SBS on a PC tucked away in the garage and have been using an app
on the phone to turn off the Server however the WAF isn't great. I
stumbled upon this plugin by accident and thus far (2 hours) it's
fantastic. Now the wife only has to turn the Radio off and 5 mins later
so is the
Simon_rb wrote:
Hi,
I have SBS on a PC tucked away in the garage and have been using an app
on the phone to turn off the Server however the WAF isn't great. I
stumbled upon this plugin by accident and thus far (2 hours) it's
fantastic. Now the wife only has to turn the Radio off and 5
Snoopy81 wrote:
1: I would like to use the CPU-load option to prevent the server from
going to suspend when working with the server. My CPU-load is around 0.1
at idle and between 0.2 and 0.8 in part load. How can I set the value to
0.15? Obviously only integers are allowed.
How are you
Snoopy81 wrote:
Hi,
Thankx for this great plugin!
I installed SrvrPowerCtrl (beta) at my SqueezeboxServer7.7.2 (on
Debian6.0.4). Now I've two questions:
1: I would like to use the CPU-load option to prevent the server from
going to suspend when working with the server. My CPU-load is
Hi,
Thankx for this great plugin!
I installed SrvrPowerCtrl (beta) at my SqueezeboxServer7.7.2 (on
Debian6.0.4). Now I've two questions:
1: I would like to use the CPU-load option to prevent the server from
going to suspend when working with the server. My CPU-load is around 0.1
at idle and
Wirrunna wrote:
I have used Server Power Control for years to shut my Squeezebox server
down, more recently using the excellent End of Day functions.
I also use a custom command to increase the data base cache size
(cli//PRAGMA%20cache_size%20%3D%2025) that appears to speed up
various
Gordon, thank you - .autoexec is the go.
Bob - good question ! Can we persue it over here -
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?93260-Optimizing-to-use-more-memory
?
Wirrunna's Profile:
Wirrunna wrote:
I have used Server Power Control for years to shut my Squeezebox server
down, more recently using the excellent End of Day functions.
I also use a custom command to increase the data base cache size
(cli//PRAGMA%20cache_size%20%3D%2025) that appears to speed up
various
I have used Server Power Control for years to shut my Squeezebox server
down, more recently using the excellent End of Day functions.
I also use a custom command to increase the data base cache size
(cli//PRAGMA%20cache_size%20%3D%2025) that appears to speed up
various browsing functions.
Blondie wrote:
Hello!
Thank you for this great plugin!
i would add a custom idle check command. If i logged in via ssh the
server should not go down.
If i execute
who | sudo wc -l
at the shell, the command returns how many users are logged in.
But if i use that as custom idle
philly4 wrote:
I have my system set up to suspend after 60 min of no activity. After
upgrading to 7.7.2, LMS would no longer suspend with no activity. After
doing some trouble shooting, I figured out that the Lazy Search plugin
was the culprit. After uninstalling Lazy Search, everything
gharris999 wrote:
There is already an option to transfer players to mysqueezebox.com. You
don't need to use the special command. Just check the Push players to
alternate server on external shutdown option. Also, check the
Restore Alternate Server connected players on wakeup option so
vedri wrote:
Thanks!
But when i shutdown my computer, server does not get switched to
mysqueezebox.com.
Where to look for the problem?
EDIT: this is part of my log file:
[12-03-13 04:56:53.0037] Plugins::SrvrPowerCtrl::Util::CLIExecCmd (810)
no name requesting command: no id restartserver
vedri wrote:
Could somebody please help!
In serverpowercontrol options there is a command that follows:
Optional special command to execute on external shutdown:
Could I configure him that after external shutdown he transfers my
player to mysquezzebox service?
Also when booting
I've posted version 20120427.152742 of SrvrPowerCtrl to the
http://srvrpowerctrl.googlecode.com/svn/beta.xml repository.
Big change with this version: on Linux systems (and maybe Mac...I
haven't tested yet) SrvrPowerCtrl will now set the system to wake-up for
the next scheduled root crontab
Could somebody please help!
In serverpowercontrol options there is a command that follows:
Optional special command to execute on external shutdown:
Could I configure him that after external shutdown he transfers my
player to mysquezzebox service?
Also when booting back to windows turn him
gharris999 wrote:
I'm seeing the same behavior as you. I would have expected the script
to return 1 or 2, but not 256.
It looks like Perl's system() returns the execution value * by 256. 0 is
0 but 1 is 256
http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=81640
castalla wrote:
Apologies for banging on about the plugin - I realise support is not
directly available from the author. I just hope there's somebody out
there who might be able to advise on the problems I am having getting
this to work.
I have a Radio and a Touch. The Radio is always
vedri wrote:
Could you please explain me how to configure player to shutdown to
mysquezzebox service after externally shutting down server (in my case
a windows 7 laptop)?
I think there's a option to switch on an external event ...
Can't check as I'm not running LMS at the moment.
Have a
epoch1970 wrote:
It looks like Perl's system() returns the execution value * by 256. 0 is
0 but 1 is 256
http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=81640Ok, that's weird. So I should
right-shift the return value by 8. Thanks
for clearing that up.
Blondie wrote:
I have now seen:
If a user is logged in, the return value is 256.
If no user is logged in, the return value is 0.
So the script is working. Thank you for your Help!
I'm seeing the same behavior as you. I would have expected the script
to return 1 or 2, but not 256. I
philly4 wrote:
I have my system set up to suspend after 60 min of no activity. After
upgrading to 7.7.2, LMS would no longer suspend with no activity. After
doing some trouble shooting, I figured out that the Lazy Search plugin
was the culprit. After uninstalling Lazy Search, everything
Blondie wrote:
What should i enter or do here?
Somethin' Else
1st off, I think you are confusing the return value of a command and a
value printed on the standard output. You may want to check on that.
2nd, AFAIK ServerPowerControl offers a launcher for a custom script. It
does not look for
Blondie wrote:
Hello!
Thank you for this great plugin!
i would add a custom idle check command. If i logged in via ssh the
server should not go down.
If i execute
who | sudo wc -l
at the shell, the command returns how many users are logged in.
But if i use that as custom idle
I have my system set up to suspend after 60 min of no activity. After
upgrading to 7.7.2, LMS would no longer suspend with no activity. After
doing some trouble shooting, I figured out that the Lazy Search plugin
was the culprit. After uninstalling Lazy Search, everything works
perfectly
Hello!
Thank you for this great plugin!
i would add a custom idle check command. If i logged in via ssh the
server should not go down.
If i execute
who | sudo wc -l
at the shell, the command returns how many users are logged in.
But if i use that as custom idle check command, it returns:
Just tying up loose ends ...
After a bit of reconfiguring my new server, installs and uninstalls, I
now have this plugin working just so! Excellent. Very useful.
--
castalla
1 Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers - 2
duff ears - purfek!
1 Logitech Radio +
I never used that feature of the plugin. Perhaps deleting/recreating the
players on MySB could help ?
--
epoch1970
Daily dose delivered by: 3 SB Classic, 1 SB Boom iPeng (iPhone + iPad)
Squeezebox Server 7.6 (Debian 5.0) with plugins: MusicIP Server
Power Control by Gordon Harris
Thanks ... will bear that in mind. Still testing ... Touch and Radio
now on network. Last check, only the Touch returned to LMS!
More testing later ...
--
castalla
1 Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers - 2
duff ears - purfek!
1 Logitech Radio + remote -
Can anyone tell me where the prefs file is located (on win 7)?
--
castalla
1 Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers - 2
duff ears - purfek!
1 Logitech Radio + remote - purfek!
castalla's Profile:
Apologies for banging on about the plugin - I realise support is not
directly available from the author. I just hope there's somebody out
there who might be able to advise on the problems I am having getting
this to work.
I have a Radio and a Touch. The Radio is always connected to mysb.com.
I've picked up on SvrPowerCntrl ater a few months break.
All I want is that I can suspend the server and switch to mysb.com -
plus return to server when it recovers from suspend.
This works perfectly if ALL connected players at mysb.com are returned.
I have a Touch and a Radio. The Radio is
Hi guys and girls!
--
Sol
Sol's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=54868
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48521
___
gharris999;693802 Wrote:
No, SCPowerTool.exe does not detect when a windows machine is being put
to sleep if the nap is being initiated other than through
SrvrPowerCtrl. SrvrPowerCtrl can send players off to mysqueezebox.com
on an externally initiated SHUTDOWN, but not on sleep or
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