Re: [Python-Dev] Why does base64 return bytes?

On 6/14/2016 11:19 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Normally I'd take a question like this to Python-List, but this question has turned out to be quite diversive, with people having strong opinions but no definitive answer. So I thought I'd ask here and hope that some of the core devs would have an

Re: [Python-Dev] BDFL ruling request: should we block forever waiting for high-quality random bits?

On 6/11/2016 11:34 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: In terms of API design, I'd prefer a flag to os.urandom() indicating a preference for - blocking - raising an exception - weaker random bits +100 ;-) I proposed exactly this 2 days ago, 5 hours after Larry's initial post. ''' I think the 'new

[Python-Dev] Cutoff time for patches for upcoming releases

A question for each of the three release managers: when is the earliest that you might tag your release and cutoff submission of further patches for the release? 2.7.12 ('6-12')? 3.5.2 ('6-12')? 3.6.0a2 ('6-13')? -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev

Re: [Python-Dev] Stop using timeit, use perf.timeit!

On 6/10/2016 12:09 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: 2016-06-10 17:09 GMT+02:00 Paul Moore : Also, the way people commonly use micro-benchmarks ("hey, look, this way of writing the expression goes faster than that way") doesn't really address questions like "is the difference

Re: [Python-Dev] Stop using timeit, use perf.timeit!

On 6/10/2016 11:07 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: I started to work on visualisation. IMHO it helps to understand the problem. Let's create a large dataset: 500 samples (100 processes x 5 samples): As I finished by response to Steven, I was thinking you should do something like this to get real

Re: [Python-Dev] Stop using timeit, use perf.timeit!

On 6/10/2016 9:20 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 01:13:10PM +0200, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi, Last weeks, I made researchs on how to get stable and reliable benchmarks, especially for the corner case of microbenchmarks. The first result is a serie of article, here are the

Re: [Python-Dev] BDFL ruling request: should we block forever waiting for high-quality random bits?

On 6/9/2016 9:48 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote: On Jun 9, 2016, at 9:27 AM, Cory Benfield wrote: The problem here is that both definitions of ‘broken’ are unclear. If we leave os.urandom() as it is, there is a small-but-nonzero change that your program will hang, potentially

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 520: Ordered Class Definition Namespace

On 6/8/2016 4:07 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: Abstract This PEP changes the default class definition namespace to ``OrderedDict``. Furthermore, the order in which the attributes are defined in each class body will now be preserved in ``type.__definition_order__``. This allows

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: Ordered Class Definition Namespace

On 6/7/2016 1:51 PM, Eric Snow wrote: Note: just to be clear, this PEP is *not* about changing > ``type.__dict__`` to ``OrderedDict``. By 'type', do you mean the one and one objected named 'type or the class being defined? To be really clear, will the following change? >>> class C: pass

Re: [Python-Dev] C99

On 6/6/2016 10:31 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: Right. So we could use C99 features in 3.6 .h files, as long as the same extension module, unmodified, could be compiled with 3.5 .h files with a 3.5 approved (C89) compiler, and also with a 3.6 approved (C99) compiler. The headers would be

Re: [Python-Dev] Start of the Python Language Summit coverage at LWN

On 6/2/2016 8:39 PM, Jake Edge wrote: Howdy python-dev, I was able to sit in on the Python Language Summit again this year (thanks Larry and Barry!) and have some of the coverage available for your viewing pleasure now. The starting point is here: https://lwn.net/Articles/688969/ (or here for

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding NewType() to PEP 484

On 5/29/2016 12:57 PM, jon wrote: The aspects we want to capture in a name or adjective for these types are: a) The types have identical implementations or definitions. b) They are distinct types. I think “Distinguished Type” or”Cloned Type” best captures these qualities. 'Cloned Type'

Re: [Python-Dev] Removing the provisional label from pathlib

On 5/24/2016 10:49 AM, Paul Moore wrote: On 24 May 2016 at 15:11, Koos Zevenhoven wrote: Please, no. We learned that lesson in Python 2.2.1 with True/False. What happened? True was included in 2.2.1 but not False?-). Anyway, I guess you are probably right, and "3.6->" is

Re: [Python-Dev] Yearly PyPI breakage

On 5/3/2016 8:56 PM, Glyph wrote: setup.py bdist_wheel' didn't work), and 'twine upload'. `pip install pypi-cdecimal´ should now work and get you an importable `cdecimal´, and if you happen to be lucky enough to run the same OS version I am, you won't even need to build C code. cdecimal users

Re: [Python-Dev] Convert int() to size_t in Python/C

On 4/29/2016 10:45 AM, Marcos Dione wrote: First of all, I'm not subbscribed to the list (too much traffic for me), so please CC: me in any answers if possible. I am indulging you this once, but the proper solution is to read pydev via the gmane.comp.python.devel mirror at

Re: [Python-Dev] MAKE_FUNCTION simplification

On 4/14/2016 12:03 PM, Nikita Nemkin wrote: I think that Python should make bytecode explicitly unstable and subject to change with any major release. https://docs.python.org/3/library/dis.html#module-dis CPython implementation detail: Bytecode is an implementation detail of the CPython

Re: [Python-Dev] Not receiving bug tracker emails

On 4/4/2016 5:05 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: Since a few days, I am getting bug tracker emails again, in my Inbox. I just got a Rietveld review in the Inbox and I believe it went there directly instead of first to Junk. Thank you to whoever made the improvements. -- Terry Jan Reedy

Re: [Python-Dev] When should pathlib stop being provisional?

On 4/5/2016 7:45 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: This does sound like it's the crucial issue, and it is worth writing up clearly the pros and cons. Let's draft those lists in a thread (this one's fine) and then add them to the PEP. We can then decide to: - keep the status quo - change PurePath to

Re: [Python-Dev] bugs.python.org email blockage at gmail

On 4/5/2016 3:56 PM, R. David Murray wrote: We think we have a partial (and hopefully temporary) solution to the bugs email blockage: ipv6 has been turned off on bugs, so it is sending only from the ipv4 address. Google appears to be accepting the emails again. However, the IPV4 address has a

Re: [Python-Dev] Not receiving bug tracker emails

On 3/29/2016 7:30 PM, Martin Panter wrote: For the last ~36 hours I have stopped receiving emails for messages posted in the bug tracker. Is anyone else having this problem? Has anything changed recently? My udel dot edu account is handled by google. I am also not getting anything at all,

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding a Pip GUI to IDLE and idlelib (GSOC project)

On 3/28/2016 12:50 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: On 03/26/2016 11:13 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: Summary: There are two prospective Google Summer of Code (GSOC) students applying to work on writing a gui interface to the basic pip functions needed by beginners. I expect Google to accept their proposals

[Python-Dev] Adding a Pip GUI to IDLE and idlelib (GSOC project)

Summary: There are two prospective Google Summer of Code (GSOC) students applying to work on writing a gui interface to the basic pip functions needed by beginners. I expect Google to accept their proposals. Before I commit to mentoring a student (sometime in April), I would like to be sure,

Re: [Python-Dev] bitfields - short - and xlc compiler

On 3/20/2016 4:04 PM, Andrew Barnert via Python-Dev wrote: Agreed. But I think the test is reasonable on at least MSVC, gcc, clang, and icc. So what you need is some way to run the test on those compilers, but not on compilers that can't handle it. The test could be conditioned on the

Re: [Python-Dev] What does a double coding cookie mean?

On 3/16/2016 3:14 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: On 16.03.16 02:28, Guido van Rossum wrote: I agree that the spirit of the PEP is to stop at the first coding cookie found. Would it be okay if I updated the PEP to clarify this? I'll definitely also update the docs. Could you please also update

Re: [Python-Dev] Use utf-8 charset for tracker summaries?

On 3/12/2016 1:42 AM, Ezio Melotti wrote: On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 12:09 AM, Terry Reedy <tjre...@udel.edu> wrote: The weeky 'Summariy of Python tracker Issues' ('tracker' should be capitalized if 'Issues' is) starts with Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-T

[Python-Dev] Use utf-8 charset for tracker summaries?

The weeky 'Summariy of Python tracker Issues' ('tracker' should be capitalized if 'Issues' is) starts with Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Names sometimes have not-ascii chars, and they do not get properly displayed for me with

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 515: Underscores in Numeric Literals

On 2/11/2016 2:45 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: Thanks for grabbing this issue and moving it forward. I will like being about to write or read 200_000_000 and be sure I an right without counting 0s. Based on the feedback so far, I have an easier rule in mind that I will base the next PEP

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue #26204: compiler now emits a SyntaxWarning on constant statement

On 2/8/2016 4:51 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: 2016-02-08 22:28 GMT+01:00 Alexander Walters : What incantation do you need to do to make that behavior apparent? I didn't know. I just checked. It's assert used with a non-empty tuple: assert ("tuple",) :1: SyntaxWarning:

Re: [Python-Dev] More optimisation ideas

On 2/4/2016 12:18 PM, Sven R. Kunze wrote: On 04.02.2016 14:09, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 2 February 2016 at 06:39, Andrew Barnert via Python-Dev wrote: On Feb 1, 2016, at 09:59,mike.romb...@comcast.net wrote: If the stdlib were to use implicit namespace packages

Re: [Python-Dev] More optimisation ideas

On 2/1/2016 3:39 PM, Andrew Barnert via Python-Dev wrote: There are already multiple duplicate questions every month on StackOverflow from people asking "how do I find the source to stdlib module X". The canonical answer starts off by explaining how to import the module and use its __file__,

Re: [Python-Dev] More optimisation ideas

On 1/31/2016 12:09 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: The following documentation leaves me absolutely clueless: """This class only works with loaders that define exec_module() as control over what module type is used for the module is required. No wonder. I cannot parse it as an English sentence.

Re: [Python-Dev] FAT Python (lack of) performance

On 1/26/2016 12:51 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Terry Reedy writes: > On 1/26/2016 12:02 AM, INADA Naoki wrote: > > > People use same algorithm on every language when compares base language > > performance [1]. > > The python code is NOT using the sa

Re: [Python-Dev] FAT Python (lack of) performance

On 1/26/2016 12:35 PM, Sven R. Kunze wrote: I completely agree with INADA. I an not sure you do. It's like saying, because a specific crossroad features a higher accident rate, *people need to change their driving behavior*. *No!* People won't change and it's not necessary either. The

Re: [Python-Dev] FAT Python (lack of) performance

On 1/26/2016 12:02 AM, INADA Naoki wrote: People use same algorithm on every language when compares base language performance [1]. The python code is NOT using the same algorithm. The proof is that the Python function will return the correct value for, say fib(50) while most if not all the

Re: [Python-Dev] Devguide: Add a table summarizing status of Python branches

On 1/20/2016 12:40 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi, I proposed a patch for the devguide to give the current status of all Python branches: active, bugfix, security only, end-of-line, with their end-of-life when applicable (past date or scheduled date) http://bugs.python.org/issue26165 What do you

Re: [Python-Dev] Update PEP 7 to require curly braces in C

On 1/20/2016 12:45 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 at 19:33 Martin Panter > wrote: On 19 January 2016 at 20:12, Brett Cannon > wrote: > Here is a proposed update: >

Re: [Python-Dev] Update PEP 7 to require curly braces in C

On 1/18/2016 6:20 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 at 11:10 Brett Cannon > wrote: While doing a review of http://bugs.python.org/review/26129/ I asked to have curly braces put around all `if` statement bodies. Serhiy pointed

Re: [Python-Dev] 2.7.11 Windows Installer issues on Win2008R2

On 1/15/2016 5:13 PM, Rader, David wrote: [description of problems] Please register at bugs.python.org and open a new issue for Versions 2.7, Components: Installation, with 'benjamin.peterson' and 'loewis' on the Nosy List. Copy what you wrote in the Comment: box. -- Terry Jan Reedy

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 509

On 1/12/2016 5:24 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: On 01/12/2016 01:34 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: 2016-01-12 19:52 GMT+01:00 Ethan Furman : [1] We're not going to call it __version__ are we? Seems like __cache_token__ is a much better name. While I understand the rationale against

Re: [Python-Dev] GitHub migration planning has started

On 1/10/2016 12:43 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: For those of you who have not heard, I made the decision a little over a week ago to move Python's development from our home-grown workflow to one hosted on GitHub (mainly for code hosting and code review; we're keeping bugs.python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] GitHub migration planning has started

On 1/11/2016 12:58 AM, Martin Panter wrote: On 11 January 2016 at 03:52, Terry Reedy <tjre...@udel.edu> wrote: On 1/10/2016 12:43 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: If you want to help with the transition, then feel free to join the core-workflow mailing list where all the discussions on the d

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 257 and __init__

On 1/3/2016 6:21 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Facundo Batista > wrote: On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Andrew Barnert > wrote: > Isn't the same

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 257 and __init__

On 12/29/2015 2:40 PM, Fred Drake wrote: On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Facundo Batista wrote: I was reading PEP 257 and it says that all public methods from a class (including __init__) should have a docstring. Why __init__? It's behaviour is well defined (inits

Re: [Python-Dev] Typo in PEP-0423

On 12/19/2015 5:55 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: Even once the new docs are in place, getting them to the top of search of results ahead of archived material that may be years out of date is likely to still be a challenge - for example, even considering just the legacy distutils docs, the "3.1" and

Re: [Python-Dev] [Webmaster] Python keeps installing as 32 bit

On 12/18/2015 4:34 PM, Mullins, Robb wrote: Please remove these posts/liservs, etc. if possible, or strip my contact info/name/phone/email off the posts please. I’m getting calls from people trying to help with my Python install issue. http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-dev/138936/

Re: [Python-Dev] A function for Find-Replace in lists

On 12/9/2015 6:43 AM, טל ח wrote: I think it could be helpful for everyone if the function proposed by user "SomethingSomething" can be added as built-in in Python See both question by "SomethingSomething" and answer to himself with implementation..

Re: [Python-Dev] Second milestone of FAT Python

On 11/4/2015 3:50 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi, I'm writing a new "FAT Python" project to try to implement optimizations in CPython (inlining, constant folding, move invariants out of loops, etc.) using a "static" optimizer (not a JIT). For the background, see the thread on python-ideas:

Re: [Python-Dev] Should PEP 498 specify if rf'...' is valid?

On 10/31/2015 8:48 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: Given that "f" is standing for a runtime transformation (unlike the purely declarative "b" and "r"), it makes sense to me to mentally translate it as "magic_format_call_that_needs_compiler_assistance()", so requiring the "f" to be first isn't

Re: [Python-Dev] If you shadow a module in the standard library that IDLE depends on, bad things happen

On 10/30/2015 3:21 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: AFAIK the sys module can't be shadowed. I tried it and it seems to be true of builtins in general. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] If you shadow a module in the standard library that IDLE depends on, bad things happen

On 10/29/2015 4:53 PM, Mark Roseman wrote: Need I submit a bug report/feature request to get this happening? Very, very pleased to have mentioned it … I took care of the bug report. The idle issue is https://bugs.python.org/issue25514 As I said there, I think that removing '' from sys.path,

Re: [Python-Dev] If you shadow a module in the standard library that IDLE depends on, bad things happen

On 10/29/2015 11:59 AM, Laura Creighton wrote: see the following: lac@smartwheels:~/junk$ echo "print ('hello there')" >string.py lac@smartwheels:~/junk$ idle-python3.5 hello there Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in File "/usr/lib/python3.5/idlelib/run.py", line 10,

Re: [Python-Dev] If you shadow a module in the standard library that IDLE depends on, bad things happen

On 10/29/2015 5:18 PM, Laura Creighton wrote: In a message of Thu, 29 Oct 2015 15:50:30 -0500, Ryan Gonzalez writes: Why not just check the path of the imported modules and compare it with the Python library directory? My friend Åsa who is 12 years old suggested exactly this at the club.

Re: [Python-Dev] Generated Bytecode ...

On 10/23/2015 4:23 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi, 2015-10-22 19:02 GMT+02:00 Brett Cannon : It's not specified anywhere; it's just what the peepholer decides to remove. The exact code can be found at https://hg.python.org/cpython/file/default/Python/peephole.c . There has been

Re: [Python-Dev] Generated Bytecode ...

On 10/26/2015 10:36 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: 2015-10-24 4:34 GMT+09:00 Terry Reedy <tjre...@udel.edu>: How about -x nopeep to specifically skip the peephole optimizer? Raymond wrote "IIRC, the code was never generated in the first place (before the peephole pass)." I based

Re: [Python-Dev] Generated Bytecode ...

On 10/22/2015 1:56 PM, R. David Murray wrote: On Thu, 22 Oct 2015 17:02:48 -, Brett Cannon wrote: On Thu, 22 Oct 2015 at 09:37 Stéphane Wirtel wrote: Hi all, When we compile a python script # test.py if 0: x = 1 python -mdis test.py

Re: [Python-Dev] Rationale behind lazy map/filter

On 10/13/2015 7:59 AM, Stefan Mihaila wrote: Could someone clarify for me ... This list, pydev, short for 'python development', is for discussing development of future releases of CPython. Your question should have been directed to python-list, where it would be entirely on topic. --

Re: [Python-Dev] An example of Python 3 promotion attitude

On 10/6/2015 7:29 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: There was a discussion a while ago about python 3 and the attitude on social media and there was a lack of examples. Here is one example: https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/3nl5ut/ninite_the_popular_website_to_install_essential/ I read

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.4.4rc1, when?

On 10/4/2015 11:44 PM, Larry Hastings wrote: On 10/04/2015 06:26 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: When might 3.5.1 candidate be? No announcements yet! May I assume that you will give at least two weeks notice and that 3.5.1c1 will be at least 3 or 4 weeks off? -- Terry Jan Reedy

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.4.4rc1, when?

On 10/4/2015 8:37 PM, Larry Hastings wrote: On 10/03/2015 06:35 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: When, exactly, is 3.4.4c1 being branched off (which is when we should stop pushing non-critical patches)? The 3.4 PEP has no mention of 3.4.4 https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0429/ I'm holding off

[Python-Dev] 3.4.4rc1, when?

When, exactly, is 3.4.4c1 being branched off (which is when we should stop pushing non-critical patches)? The 3.4 PEP has no mention of 3.4.4 https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0429/ -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list

[Python-Dev] Migrating to Python 3: the python 3 install issue

On python-list, Chris Warrick reported (thread title): "The Nikola project is deprecating Python 2.7 (+2.x/3.x user survey results)" This is for the November release, with 2.7 dropped in the next version next year. (Nikola is a cross-platform unicode-based app for building static websites and

Re: [Python-Dev] Committing a bug fix

On 9/28/2015 2:56 AM, Martin Panter wrote: Also @Terry, not sure on your workflow, Normal one specified in devguide: commit 3.4, merge 3.5, merge 3.6, except I do it with TortoiseHG Workbench GUI. > but you might have been able to avoid pushing your 3.4 commits. You might have been able to

Re: [Python-Dev] Committing a bug fix

On 9/28/2015 1:12 PM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote: On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:13 AM, Terry Reedy <tjre...@udel.edu <mailto:tjre...@udel.edu>> wrote: Normal one specified in devguide: commit 3.4, merge 3.5, merge 3.6, That's exactly what I did at fist, but apparently while

Re: [Python-Dev] Committing a bug fix

On 9/28/2015 7:05 PM, Martin Panter wrote: On 28 September 2015 at 22:31, Terry Reedy <tjre...@udel.edu> wrote: . . . it may have merged in the wrong place, such as putting a things into the 3.5.1 section of 3.6 NEWS, which should not be there. Since you mentioned this and I also n

Re: [Python-Dev] Committing a bug fix

On 9/27/2015 10:05 PM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote: On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 9:12 PM, R. David Murray > wrote: .. 3.4, 3.5, and default. 3.4.4rc1 is due out next Sunday. Only emergency patches after that. Thanks. Maybe you can

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposing the deprecation of the pyvenv script

On 9/19/2015 1:24 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Barry Warsaw writes: > One thing that came up in a similar discussion is pip, and the > suggested move to `python -m pip`, which makes a lot of sense. > However, *inside* a virtualenv, there's no ambiguity about the > Python version

Re: [Python-Dev] My collection of Python 3.5.0 regressions

On 9/18/2015 9:18 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: Sadly, Python 3.5.0 comes with regressions. FYI I fixed the following regressions: The tracker needs a new keyword: '3.5regression', to match others. "OSError in os.waitpid() on Windows" http://bugs.python.org/issue25118 "Windows:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: Collecting information about git

On 9/17/2015 3:17 AM, André Freitas wrote: Regarding Git tools for Windows, GitHub Desktop and Sourcetree are actually very good with nice features. Do you know if either have anything like TortoiseHg Workbench? https://tortoisehg.readthedocs.org/en/latest/workbench.html (screenshot at top)

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: Collecting information about git

On 9/17/2015 3:09 AM, Tim Golden wrote: On 17/09/2015 02:59, Terry Reedy wrote: On 9/16/2015 5:20 AM, Oleg Broytman wrote: On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 07:44:28PM +, Augie Fackler <r...@durin42.com> wrote: There are a lot of reasons to prefer one tool over another. Commo

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: Collecting information about git

On 9/16/2015 5:20 AM, Oleg Broytman wrote: On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 07:44:28PM +, Augie Fackler wrote: There are a lot of reasons to prefer one tool over another. Common ones are familiarity, simplicity, and power. Add here documentation, speed, availability of

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: Collecting information about git

On 9/15/2015 10:14 PM, Augie Fackler wrote: (Note that I'm not subbed to python-devel, so you'll get faster service by leaving me cc'ed on the thread.) I am not either, because I read and post (since its beginning) via the gmane.comp.python.devel mirror at news.gmane.org. Choose newsgroup

[Python-Dev] When is 3.4.4 scheduled?

I could not fine '3.4.4' either in https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0429/ 3.4 schedule or elsewhere on the site. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 495 Was: PEP 498: Literal String Interpolation is ready for pronouncement

On 9/12/2015 1:04 PM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote: On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 1:20 AM, Terry Reedy <tjre...@udel.edu <mailto:tjre...@udel.edu>> wrote: A mathematician has no problem with 'a'+'b' != 'b'+'a'. I doubt it. A binary operation denoted + (and called additio

Re: [Python-Dev] Partial function application

On 9/11/2015 3:56 AM, Herbert Kruitbosch wrote: I was wondering if there are considerations for including partial function application syntactically. I very often find myself writing statements as: data_sorted = sort(data, key = lambda x: x[0]) where I would prefer data_sorted = sort(data, key

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 495 Was: PEP 498: Literal String Interpolation is ready for pronouncement

On 9/11/2015 2:36 PM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote: On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Guido van Rossum > wrote: Now if only PEP 495 could be as easy... :-) I think we nailed the hard issues there. The next update will have a restored hash

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 495 Was: PEP 498: Literal String Interpolation is ready for pronouncement

On 9/11/2015 8:40 PM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote: The insanity I am dealing with now is specific to Python datetime which wisely blocks any binary operation that involves naive and aware datetimes, but allows comparisons and subtractions of datetimes with different timezones. This is not an

Re: [Python-Dev] semantics of subclassing things from itertools

On 9/10/2015 3:23 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: Hi I would like to know what are the semantics if you subclass something from itertools (e.g. islice). I believe people are depending on an undocumented internal speed optimization. See below. Right now it's allowed and people do it, which

Re: [Python-Dev] Choosing an official stance towards module deprecation in Python 3

On 9/8/2015 12:59 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: There are two discussions going on in the issue tracker about deprecating some modules and it has led to the inevitable discussion of Python 2/3 compatibility (I'm not even going to bother mentioning the issue #s as this thread is not about the modules

Re: [Python-Dev] Yet another "A better story for multi-core Python" comment

On 9/8/2015 2:08 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: R. David Murray writes: > On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 10:12:37 -0400, Gary Robinson wrote: > > 2) Have a mode where a particular data structure is not reference > > counted or garbage collected. > > This sounds kind of like what

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 498: Literal String Interpolation is ready for pronouncement

On 9/5/2015 12:18 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 2:10 AM, haypo s > wrote: We already went over this. You might as well argue that __import__ or lambda should not be used as arguments to print(). It's an

Re: [Python-Dev] Testing tkinter on Linux

On 8/27/2015 12:35 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: None of the linux buildbots run with X enabled. Consequently none of the tkinter (or tkinter user) gui tests are run on Linux. It was thus pointed out to me, during discussion

Re: [Python-Dev] Python Issue-subprocess problem

On 8/27/2015 11:05 AM, Ryan Gonzalez wrote: *before anyone else says it* This list is for development /of/ Python, not /in/ Python. If you need help with things like this, I'd advise you to use the python-list https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list mailing list or Stack Overflow

[Python-Dev] Testing tkinter on Linux

None of the linux buildbots run with X enabled. Consequently none of the tkinter (or tkinter user) gui tests are run on Linux. It was thus pointed out to me, during discussion of using ttk widgets in Idle, that we do not really know if ttk works on the variety of Linux systems (beyond the

Re: [Python-Dev] django_v2 benchmark compatibility fix for Python 3.6

On 8/25/2015 10:51 AM, R. David Murray wrote: On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:11:37 -, Papa, Florin florin.p...@intel.com wrote: My name is Florin Papa and I work in the Server Languages Optimizations Team at Intel Corporation. I would like to submit a patch that solves compatibility issues of

Re: [Python-Dev] Building Extensions for Python 3.5 on Windows

On 8/25/2015 2:17 PM, Steve Dower wrote: I've written up a long technical blog post about the compiler and CRT changes in Python 3.5, which will be of interest to those who build and distribute native extensions for Windows. http://stevedower.id.au/blog/building-for-python-3-5/ Hopefully it

Re: [Python-Dev] Python

On 8/16/2015 12:22 AM, lucky yadav wrote: Want to learn python Would u help me! Try the python-tutor list. This list if for development of the next releases of Python. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] Issues not responded to.

On 7/31/2015 7:30 AM, Xavier de Gaye wrote: On 07/31/2015 06:42 AM, Zachary Ware wrote: On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:21 PM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: Best thing I can think of is to post the Roundup search you did Just put 1 in the Message count box on the standard search page.

Re: [Python-Dev] Status on PEP-431 Timezones

On 7/27/2015 3:09 AM, Tim Peters wrote: [Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com] As an example, consider an alarm clock. I want it to go off at 7am each morning. I'd feel completely justified in writing tomorrows_alarm = todays_alarm + timedelta(days=1). [Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com]

Re: [Python-Dev] Building python 2.7.10 for Windows from source

On 7/27/2015 10:25 AM, Mark Kelley wrote: Thanks, that got me a bit further. Now I'm wondering how I figure out which version of tcl,tk and Tix actually got built with the 2.7.10 installer. This is really a python-list question, but for the PSF installer, tcl/tk 8.5.15 -- Terry Jan Reedy

Re: [Python-Dev] Status on PEP-431 Timezones

On 7/27/2015 3:14 PM, Tim Peters wrote: [Terry Reedy] I think using the word 'naive' is both inaccurate and a mistake. The issue is civil or legal time versus STEM time, where the latter includes applications like baking cakes. Sorry, never heard of STEM time before - a quick Google search

Re: [Python-Dev] Status on PEP-431 Timezones

On 7/27/2015 11:21 AM, MRAB wrote: Also, if you add one year to 29 February 2016, what date do you get? I believe the 'conventional' answer is 1 March 2017. That is also 1 Mar 2016 + 1 year. 1 March 2017 - 1 year would be 1 Mar 2016. Leap days get cheated. -- Terry Jan Reedy

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 447 (type.__getdescriptor__)

On 7/22/2015 3:25 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: Hi, Another summer with another EuroPython, which means its time again to try to revive PEP 447… I’ve just pushes a minor update to the PEP and would like to get some feedback on this, arguably fairly esoteric, PEP. Yeh, a bit too esoteric for

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.4.3 on RedHat 6.6 s390x make fails with: make: *** [sharedmods] Error 139

On 7/21/2015 6:20 PM, Vitale, Joseph wrote: Hello, Trying to install Python 3.4.3 on Red Hat 6.6 zLinux(s390x) but “make” fails and core dumps. Not using OpenSSL and did not configure for it. Questions about installing current Python should be directed to python-list. pydev is for

Re: [Python-Dev] Devguide - Add Communications Quick Start Section

On 7/21/2015 1:06 PM, Carol Willing wrote: I would like to add a Communications Quick Start section to the beginning of the Python Developer's Guide. I would rename 'Quick Start' to 'Quick Start: Code Development' and add 'Quick Start: Communications' (or maybe 'Q S: Community Interaction').

Re: [Python-Dev] How far to go with user-friendliness

D'Aprano yes -1 Barry Warsaw yes -.5 (?) Ethan Furman yes -1 Terry Reedy yes -1 Looks like this thread was pretty evenly split between core devs and non-core devs. Looks like a definite majority of non-core

Re: [Python-Dev] GetFinalPathNameByHandleW - what is the minimum windows version python-3.5 will support ?

On 7/19/2015 9:51 AM, Tim Golden wrote: On 19/07/2015 13:10, Vitaly Murashev wrote: I've just found out that that on Windows internal implementation of python35.dll in posixmodule.c uses winapi function GetFinalPathNameByHandleW By the way from MSDN:

Re: [Python-Dev] How far to go with user-friendliness

On 7/14/2015 8:39 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 14 July 2015 at 22:06, Dima Tisnek dim...@gmail.com wrote: Thus the question, how far should Python go to detect possible erroneous user behaviour? Granted it is in tests only, but why not detect assrte, sasert, saster and assrat? Drawing the

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue #15014 - SMTP AUTH initial-response (beta exception requested)

On 7/7/2015 1:52 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: Larry and others, I'd like to bring your attention to issue #15014. This issue added arbitrary auth methods to smtplib, which is a good thing. Implicitly though, a regression was introduced w.r.t. RFC 4954's optional initial-response for the AUTH

[Python-Dev] Should asyncio ignore KeyboardInterrupt?

Should the loop.run... methods of asyncio respect KeyboardInterrupt (^C)? Developer and user convenience and this paragraph in PEP However, exceptions deriving only from BaseException are typically not caught, and will usually cause the program to terminate with a traceback. In some cases

Re: [Python-Dev] Should asyncio ignore KeyboardInterrupt?

On 7/4/2015 4:06 PM, Andrew Svetlov wrote: I believe it's a bug #23057 http://bugs.python.org/issue23057 On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 10:58 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: It's possible, but AFAIK asyncio.sleep() has nothing in common with time.sleep() -- it's implemented as a timeout

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