Re: [Python-Dev] Moving Python 3.5 on Windows to a new compiler

2014-06-06 Thread Terry Reedy
On 6/6/2014 9:13 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: On Jun 6, 2014, at 9:05 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: If you are suggesting that a Windows compiler change should be invisible to non-Windows users, I agree. Let us assume that /pcbuild remains for those who have vc2008 and that /pcbuild14

Re: [Python-Dev] [numpy wishlist] Interpreter support for temporary elision in third-party classes

2014-06-05 Thread Terry Reedy
On 6/5/2014 4:51 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: In fact, AFAICT it's 100% correct for libraries being called by regular python code (which is why I'm able to quote benchmarks at you :-)). The bytecode eval loop always holds a reference to all operands, and then immediately DECREFs them after the

Re: [Python-Dev] Internal representation of strings and Micropython

2014-06-04 Thread Terry Reedy
On 6/4/2014 3:41 AM, Jeff Allen wrote: Jython uses UTF-16 internally -- probably the only sensible choice in a Python that can call Java. Indexing is O(N), fundamentally. By fundamentally, I mean for those strings that have not yet noticed that they contain no supplementary (0x) characters.

Re: [Python-Dev] Internal representation of strings and Micropython

2014-06-04 Thread Terry Reedy
On 6/4/2014 3:41 AM, Jeff Allen wrote: Jython uses UTF-16 internally -- probably the only sensible choice in a Python that can call Java. Indexing is O(N), fundamentally. By fundamentally, I mean for those strings that have not yet noticed that they contain no supplementary (0x) characters.

Re: [Python-Dev] Internal representation of strings and Micropython

2014-06-04 Thread Terry Reedy
On 6/4/2014 5:14 PM, Paul Sokolovsky wrote: That said, and unlike previous attempts to develop a small Python implementations (which of course existed), we're striving to be exactly a Python language implementation, not a Python-like language implementation. As there's no formal,

Re: [Python-Dev] Internal representation of strings and Micropython

2014-06-04 Thread Terry Reedy
On 6/4/2014 6:52 PM, Paul Sokolovsky wrote: Well is subjective (or should be defined formally based on the requirements). With my MicroPython hat on, an implementation which receives a string, transcodes it, leading to bigger size, just to immediately transcode back and send out - is awful,

Re: [Python-Dev] Internal representation of strings and Micropython

2014-06-04 Thread Terry Reedy
On 6/4/2014 6:54 PM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 05.06.14 00:21, Terry Reedy написав(ла): On 6/4/2014 3:41 AM, Jeff Allen wrote: Jython uses UTF-16 internally -- probably the only sensible choice in a Python that can call Java. Indexing is O(N), fundamentally. By fundamentally, I mean for those

Re: [Python-Dev] Updating turtle.py

2014-06-02 Thread Terry Reedy
On 6/2/2014 3:12 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: Even if we had unlimited reviewer resources (which we don't), mechanical code cleanups tend to fall under the if it ain't broke, don't fix it guideline. That then sets us up for a conflict between folks just getting started and trying to be helpful, and

Re: [Python-Dev] Updating turtle.py

2014-05-31 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/31/2014 2:05 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: Am 31.05.14 05:32, schrieb Terry Reedy: I have two areas of questions about updating turtle.py. First the module itself, then a turtle tracker issue versus code cleanup policies. A. Unlike most stdlib modules, turtle is copyrighted and licensed

[Python-Dev] Updating turtle.py

2014-05-30 Thread Terry Reedy
I have two areas of questions about updating turtle.py. First the module itself, then a turtle tracker issue versus code cleanup policies. A. Unlike most stdlib modules, turtle is copyrighted and licensed by an individual. ''' # turtle.py: a Tkinter based turtle graphics module for Python #

Re: [Python-Dev] Language Summit Follow-Up

2014-05-29 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/29/2014 1:22 AM, INADA Naoki wrote: We would like to stress that we don't believe anything on this list is as important as the continuing efforts that everyone in the broader ecosystem is making. If you just want to ease the transition by working on anything at all, the best use of your

Re: [Python-Dev] Language Summit Follow-Up

2014-05-29 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/28/2014 6:26 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: I hope it's not controversial to say that most new Python code is still being written against Python 2.7 today; Given that Python 3 downloads now outnumber Python 2 downloads, I think 'most' might be an overstatement. But I think it a moot point.

Re: [Python-Dev] Merge conflicts from unmerged 3.4 commits, what do I do?

2014-05-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/19/2014 2:08 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 5/19/2014 1:31 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: To get my repo back into a usable state, I ran hg update --clean py35% hg update --clean % hg update --clean abort: index 00changelog.i unknown format 2! After exiting Workbench and rebooting, update

Re: [Python-Dev] Returning None from methods that mutate object state

2014-05-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/19/2014 10:20 AM, Hrvoje Niksic wrote: On 05/17/2014 10:26 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: When list.pop was added, the convention was changed to do not return the 'self' parameter Do you have a reference for this? I think the fact that Guido accepted, in 2000, my 1999 proposal

Re: [Python-Dev] Returning None from methods that mutate object state

2014-05-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/20/2014 12:30 PM, Chris Barker wrote: [].sort() is None True ABC.lower() is None False Is there a reference anywhere as to *why* the convention in Python is to do it that way? In short, reducing bugs induced by mutation of aliased objects. Functional languages

Re: [Python-Dev] Merge conflicts from unmerged 3.4 commits, what do I do?

2014-05-19 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/19/2014 1:31 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: On May 19, 2014, at 5:52 AM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu mailto:tjre...@udel.edu wrote: I stopped at this point and ran diskcheck. I then looked at the DAG and noticed 5 previous 3.4 patches that were not merged into 3.5: rev 90750 and 90751

[Python-Dev] Merge conflicts from unmerged 3.4 commits, what do I do?

2014-05-18 Thread Terry Reedy
An hour ago, I pulled recent commits to my local repository. I edited a couple of files, wrote commit messages, and pulled again, nothing new. I then did the usual: commit 2.7, commit 3.4, merge to 3.5. Problem: merge conflicts from 6 files I have never touched. Include/patchlevel.h

Re: [Python-Dev] Returning None from methods that mutate object state

2014-05-17 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/17/2014 1:14 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: During a conversation today, I realised that the convention of returning None from methods that change an object's state isn't captured the Programming Recommendations section of PEP 8. Specifically, I'm referring to this behaviour: [].sort() is None

Re: [Python-Dev] pip: cdecimal an externally hosted file and may be unreliable [sic]

2014-05-09 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/9/2014 2:12 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: On May 9, 2014, at 1:28 PM, R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com wrote: I don't understand this. Why it is our responsibility to provide a free service for a large project to repeatedly download a set of files they need? Why does it not make more

Re: [Python-Dev] Existence of pythonNN.zip in sys.path

2014-05-07 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/7/2014 7:45 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: On 5/6/2014 1:14 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 5/5/2014 5:32 PM, Anthony Tuininga wrote: Hi, I am the author of cx_Freeze which creates frozen executables from Python scripts. To this point I have been using frozen modules (compiled C) but this has

Re: [Python-Dev] Existence of pythonNN.zip in sys.path

2014-05-06 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/5/2014 5:32 PM, Anthony Tuininga wrote: Hi, I am the author of cx_Freeze which creates frozen executables from Python scripts. To this point I have been using frozen modules (compiled C) but this has the side effect of bundling parts of Python with a cx_Freeze release -- and this has

Re: [Python-Dev] Python under the sea and in space

2014-05-06 Thread Terry Reedy
On 5/4/2014 11:02 PM, Jessica McKellar wrote: Hi folks, I'm trying to determine the greatest depth (in the ocean or underground) and highest altitude at which Python code has been executed. Please note that I'm interested in where the code was executed, and not, say, where data that Python

Re: [Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

2014-04-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/28/2014 4:24 PM, Claudiu Popa wrote: This issue raised too much bikeshedding. To wrap it up, I'll modify the patch with the following: - processes renamed to workers - `workers` defaults to 1 - When `workers` is equal to 0, then `os.cpu_count` will be used - When `workers` 1, multiple

Re: [Python-Dev] pep8 reasoning

2014-04-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/28/2014 2:12 PM, Chris Barker wrote: I don't think anyone should write code with variable width fonts, The problem is that fixed pitch does not work well for even a half-way complete unicode font and I don't know that there are any available. As far as I know, my Windows 7 only came

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-Dev Digest, Vol 129, Issue 81

2014-04-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/28/2014 5:01 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: On Mon Apr 28 2014 at 4:58:35 PM, Mike Miller python-...@mgmiller.net mailto:python-...@mgmiller.net wrote: Hi, note the pep, it makes allowances for security enhancements. The PEP in question is about fixing fundamentally broken security issues

Re: [Python-Dev] pep8 reasoning

2014-04-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/28/2014 7:13 PM, Chris Barker wrote: On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu mailto:tjre...@udel.edu wrote: I don't think anyone should write code with variable width fonts, The problem is that fixed pitch does not work well for even a half-way

Re: [Python-Dev] pep8 reasoning

2014-04-27 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/27/2014 3:34 PM, Chris Barker wrote: On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org mailto:ba...@python.org wrote: On Apr 26, 2014, at 12:33 AM, Janzert wrote: So the one example under discussion is: foo = long_function_name( var_one, var_two,

Re: [Python-Dev] ConfigParser mangles keys with special chars

2014-04-25 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/25/2014 12:46 PM, Fred Drake wrote: On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Florian Bruhin m...@the-compiler.org wrote: While it seems ConfigParser doesn't do any escaping as all, I'm thinking it should at least raise some exception when such a value is trying to be set. I'd expect writing

Re: [Python-Dev] ConfigParser mangles keys with special chars

2014-04-25 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/25/2014 1:41 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: On 04/25/2014 09:46 AM, Fred Drake wrote: At this point, it would be a backward-incompatible change, so it's unlikely such a change could be allowed to affect existing code. All bug-fixes are backwards-incompatible, yet we fix them anyway. ;) It

Re: [Python-Dev] pep8 reasoning

2014-04-24 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/24/2014 12:36 PM, Tim Peters wrote: There's been a bit of serious study on this. The results are still open to interpretation, though ;-) Here's a nice summary: http://whathecode.wordpress.com/2011/02/10/camelcase-vs-underscores-scientific-showdown/ The linked poll is almost evenly

Re: [Python-Dev] Patches in need of review

2014-04-23 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/23/2014 3:27 PM, Claudiu Popa wrote: * http://bugs.python.org/issue16104 `Use multiprocessing in compileall script` This patch adds a new command line argument to `compileall`, also a new argument to `compileall.compile_dir`, which controls the number of worker processes used to compile

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 469: Restoring the iterkeys/values/items() methods

2014-04-21 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/21/2014 1:39 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: OK, I've now updated the PEP to better described the *problem* (rather than skipping ahead to proposing a specific solution - exactly what I was asking people *not* to do at the language summit!), Looks great. I think the analysis should be part of a

Re: [Python-Dev] Fw: fail to fetch python-dev for raspian with details of error message

2014-04-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/20/2014 8:25 PM, Ken Chan wrote: Please send this instead to python-list, where you might find other raspian users. Pydev is for development of future version of python, not use of current versions. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 469: Restoring the iterkeys/values/items() methods

2014-04-19 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/19/2014 10:52 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: Does everyone involved know that for x in d.iterkeys() is equivalent to for x in d Looking at uses I found by searching code.ohloh.net, the answer is either 'No, people sometimes add a redundant .iterkeys()' or 'people are writing non-dict

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 469: Restoring the iterkeys/values/items() methods

2014-04-18 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/18/2014 10:31 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: After spending some time talking to the folks at the PyCon Twisted sprints, they persuaded me that adding back the iterkeys/values/items methods for mapping objects would be a nice way to eliminate a key porting hassle for them (and likely others),

Re: [Python-Dev] Timing breakdown of Py_InitializeEx_Private()

2014-04-16 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/16/2014 3:46 AM, Christian Heimes wrote: On 16.04.2014 04:35, Guido van Rossum wrote: Well, that's the part that does import site. Anything that speeds up the code in Lib/site.py might help. :-) Antoine, Victor and me have implemented a couple of speed ups for import site already. I

Re: [Python-Dev] this is what happens if you freeze all the modules required for startup

2014-04-16 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/16/2014 12:25 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: Am 14.04.14 23:51, schrieb Brett Cannon: It was realized during PyCon that since we are freezing importlib we could now consider freezing all the modules to cut out having to stat or read them from disk. [...] Thoughts? They still get read from

Re: [Python-Dev] this is what happens if you freeze all the modules required for startup

2014-04-16 Thread Terry Reedy
On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:57:35 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu mailto:tjre...@udel.edu wrote: PS. In the user process sys.modules, there are numerous null entries like these: sys.modules['idlelib.os'] sys.modules['idlelib.tokenize'__] sys.modules

Re: [Python-Dev] Language Summit notes

2014-04-16 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/16/2014 6:26 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: AP exams are starting to allow Python, but it's 10% of the AP CS exams. AP? (I thought that was me, but it sounds unlikely :-)) AP = Advanced Placement. US and Canadian high school students who have taken advanced (AP) courses equivalent to

Re: [Python-Dev] Appeal for reviews

2014-04-15 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/15/2014 12:15 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: I've always really liked MvL's 5-reviews-to-get-1 approach. The only thing I don't like about it[3] is that it puts an explicit price on core developer time (my time is worth 5x as much as yours). Not really true since any of the 5 could be

Re: [Python-Dev] Timing breakdown of Py_InitializeEx_Private()

2014-04-15 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/15/2014 5:26 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: To finish my timing work I decided to see where Py_InitializeEx_Private() spends its time. The following is a breakdown measured in microseconds running using -E: INIT: setlocale: 11 envvar: 2 random init: 2 interp creation: 15 thread creation: 6 GIL:

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2migr8

2014-04-14 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/14/2014 1:19 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: Some quick thoughts: - I'd prefer a name that plays on 2 and 3, not 2 and 8. :-) - Are you sure this isn't better directed to python-ideas first? Most ideas have to prove their worth in that list before python-dev will give them the light of day.

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2migr8

2014-04-14 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/14/2014 11:32 AM, Steve Dower wrote: To put it up front, I'm totally against CPython 2.8 ever becoming a real thing. Anything that comes out should be seen as a migration path, not an upgrade path. I'll also admit I'm not heavily invested in working on it myself, but I had a number of

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2migr8

2014-04-14 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/14/2014 5:16 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: On Apr 14, 2014, at 4:39 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org mailto:gu...@python.org wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io mailto:don...@stufft.io wrote: On Apr 14, 2014, at 3:53 PM, Terry Reedy tjre

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2migr8

2014-04-14 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/14/2014 5:00 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu mailto:tjre...@udel.edu wrote: If the company is profitable, it could afford to fund a half- to full-time developer. By using the vague 'fund' I meant either hire themselves

Re: [Python-Dev] Appeal for reviews

2014-04-13 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/13/2014 2:46 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: As for the request Are you sure that the patch is ready: this is *very* difficult to answer for the author. We all have experienced that patches that we considered good were critized out of nowhere, and I just did the same to Nikolaus. There is just

Re: [Python-Dev] static typing of input arguments in signatures

2014-04-13 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/13/2014 4:11 AM, Łukasz Langa wrote: On Apr 13, 2014, at 12:48 AM, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote: Stefan Behnel, 12.04.2014 19:11: So, what I've learned from seven years of Cython is that static typing in signatures is actually less interesting than you might think at first

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 461: Adding % formatting to bytes and bytearray -- Final, Take 3

2014-04-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/12/2014 11:08 AM, Augie Fackler wrote: On Mar 29, 2014, at 2:53 PM, Gregory P. Smith g...@krypto.org mailto:g...@krypto.org wrote: On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net mailto:solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 18:47:59 + Brett

Re: [Python-Dev] Appeal for reviews

2014-04-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/12/2014 2:58 PM, Nikolaus Rath wrote: I've accumulated a number of patches in the issue tracker that are waiting for someone to review/commit/reject them. I'm eager to make corrections as necessary, I just need someone to look the work that I've done so far: If I did not have several

Re: [Python-Dev] flock in Python 3

2014-04-11 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/11/2014 8:58 AM, Jakub QB Dorňák wrote: writing a threaded application I've been surprised that there is no object api for fcntl.flock implementing __enter__() and __exit__() methods to be used with 'with' statement. Several things have been turned into context managers because someone

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 465: A dedicated infix operator for matrix multiplication

2014-04-09 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/8/2014 6:32 PM, cjw wrote: Larry Hastings https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2014-April/133818.html wasn't far from the truth. Larry's note was about adding (redundant) *NON-ascii* unicode symbols, in particular × == \xd7, as in A × B, as a synonym for '@'. Various people have

Re: [Python-Dev] A Friendly IDLE

2014-04-09 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/9/2014 12:25 AM, adnanume...@gmail.com wrote: Greeting Everyone. First of all I want to introduce my self Adnan Umer as a student of bachelors in Information Technology. I’ve few suggestions on improving IDLE. Here are few: Python-list, python-ideas, or idle-dev lists might have been

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython (3.4): asyncio: Document Task.cancel() properly.

2014-04-07 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/7/2014 5:22 AM, victor.stinner wrote: def cancel(self): +Request that a task to cancel itself. For proper English, this should be one of these: Request that a task cancel itself. Request a task to cancel itself. I think the first is slightly better. TJR

Re: [Python-Dev] New absolute __file__ in Python 3.4

2014-04-04 Thread Terry Reedy
On 4/4/2014 11:21 AM, anatoly techtonik wrote: https://docs.python.org/3.4/whatsnew/3.4.html#other-language-changes 1. Is this absolute name with symlinks resolved? 2. Why there is a special case for __main__? (i.e. Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.) Did you read the

Re: [Python-Dev] Gmane not functioning.

2014-04-03 Thread Terry Reedy
It is again now. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Python-Dev] Gmane not functioning.

2014-04-02 Thread Terry Reedy
Just to let those who read the list as a list (or via mail.python.org, as I just did as a backup) know, news.gmane.org appears to have stoppedreceiving new messages from mailing listsat about 0:30 this morning (apr 2). (I am judging this from the last recorded post on the super-busy linux

Re: [Python-Dev] Treating tokenize.Untokenizer as private

2014-03-31 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/31/2014 2:30 PM, Eric Snow wrote: On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: I am working through the multiple bugs afflicting tokenize.untokenize, which is described in the tokenize doc and has an even longer docstring. While the function could be implemented

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of PEP 3145 - Asynchronous I/O for subprocess.popen

2014-03-29 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/28/2014 5:09 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: To be clear, the proposal for Idle would be to still use the RPC protocol, but run it over a pipe instead of a socket, right? The was and is the current proposal, assuming that it is the easiest thing to do that would work. While responding to

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of PEP 3145 - Asynchronous I/O for subprocess.popen

2014-03-29 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/28/2014 5:12 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 16:58:25 -0400 Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: However, the code below creates a subprocess for one command and one response, which can apparently be done now with subprocess.communicate. What I and others need

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of PEP 3145 - Asynchronous I/O for subprocess.popen

2014-03-29 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/29/2014 11:30 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 04:44:32 -0400 Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: On 3/28/2014 5:12 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: [for Idle] Why don't you use multiprocessing or concurrent.futures? They have everything you need for continuous conversation between

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 461: Adding % formatting to bytes and bytearray -- Final, Take 3

2014-03-29 Thread Terry Reedy
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net mailto:solip...@pitrou.net wrote: I think we have reached a point where adding porting-related facilities AFAIK, The only porting specific feature is %s as a synonym for %b. Not pretty, but tolerable. Otherwise, I

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 461: Adding % formatting to bytes and bytearray -- Final, Take 3

2014-03-29 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/29/2014 8:28 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: The future project already contains a full backport of a true bytes type, rather than relying on Python 2 str objects: http://python-future.org/what_else.html#bytes That project looks really nice! It seems to me that the easiest way to make any

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of PEP 3145 - Asynchronous I/O for subprocess.popen

2014-03-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/28/2014 12:45 PM, Josiah Carlson wrote: If it makes you feel any better, I spent an hour this morning building a 2-function API for Linux and Windows, both tested, not using ctypes, and not even using any part of asyncio (the Windows bits are in msvcrt and _winapi). It works in Python 3.3+.

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of PEP 3145 - Asynchronous I/O for subprocess.popen

2014-03-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/28/2014 6:20 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: Full example of asynchronous communication with a subprocess (the python interactive interpreter) using asyncio high-level API: Thank you for writing this. As I explained in response to Josiah, Idle communicates with a python interpreter subprocess

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of PEP 3145 - Asynchronous I/O for subprocess.popen

2014-03-27 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/27/2014 9:16 PM, Josiah Carlson wrote: You don't understand the point because you don't understand the feature request or PEP. That is probably my fault for not communicating the intent better in the past. The feature request and PEP were written to offer something like the below (or at

Re: [Python-Dev] collections.sortedtree

2014-03-26 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/26/2014 4:59 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: Actually, the first step is publish it on PyPI, the second is to get a fair number of happy users there. The bar for getting something included into the stdlib is pretty high -- you need to demonstrate that there is a need *and* that having it as a

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-25 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/25/2014 6:15 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: I am not sure how this meme got started, but let me be clear: the proposed policy DOES NOT provide blanket permission to break backwards compatibility in the affected modules. It only allows ADDING new features to bring these modules into line with

Re: [Python-Dev] RFE 20469: ssl.getpeercert() should include extensions

2014-03-24 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/24/2014 6:51 PM, Andrew M. Hettinger wrote: I thought I'd wait until the 3.4 release before I bothered asking about this: http://bugs.python.org/issue20469 I don't think I'm qualified to actually be writing code for the ssl module, but is there anything else that I can do to help? I could

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466 (round 2): Network security enhancements for Python 2.7

2014-03-24 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/24/2014 7:04 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: On Mar 24, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com mailto:ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: Beyond that, PEP 462 covers another way for corporate users to give back - if they want to build massive commercial enterprises on our software, they can

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466 (round 3): Python 2 network security enhancements

2014-03-24 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/24/2014 9:43 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: And time for round 3 :) And round 3 of my response: contrary to what I said before, I now think that the base proposal should be the simplest possible: selectively (and minimally) waive the 'no-enhancement in maintenance release policy' for future

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-23 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/23/2014 3:29 AM, Cory Benfield wrote: On 23 March 2014 at 04:32:17, Terry Reedy (tjre...@udel.edu(mailto:tjre...@udel.edu)) wrote: Instead, I think the PEP should propose a special series of server enhancement releases that are based on the final 2.7 maintenance release (2.7.8 or 2.7.9

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-23 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/23/2014 9:00 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote: On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 11:31 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: The download page for the final 2.7.z maintenance release could say something like We recommend that you move to the most recent Python 3 version if at all possible. If you cannot

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-23 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/23/2014 8:03 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Mar 23, 2014, at 08:00 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote: I'm unclear how this would be better than just biting the bullet and making a 2.8 release. On the one hand, the 2.7.x number suggests (based on the existing release protocol) that it should be a

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-23 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/23/2014 7:48 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: Agreed. That's a key part of why the proposal is mainly about syncing certain key modules with their Python 3 counterparts, rather than piecemeal backports. That way, all you need to know is the SSL, hashlib and hmac modules are kept in sync with Python

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: #20145: assert[Raises|Warns]Regex now raise TypeError on bad regex.

2014-03-23 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/23/2014 7:47 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 19:44:42 -0400 R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com wrote: On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:43:14 +0100, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 20:47:28 +0100 (CET) r.david.murray python-check...@python.org wrote:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 466: Proposed policy change for handling network security enhancements

2014-03-22 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/22/2014 8:55 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: Unfortunately, rudimentary SSL support is worse than nothing. I'm going to try to find a way to steal that line and get it into the PEP. I'm not sure yet if my proposal is the *right* answer, but this observation gets right to the heart of the problem

Re: [Python-Dev] Call for Python Developers for our humanoid Robot NAO

2014-03-18 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/18/2014 12:44 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Hello Xavier, It is not obvious your message is appropriate for python-dev. It looks like mere advertising; The wording is typical for slightly indirect sales pitches in English. The same non-specific (no language mentioned) message was sent to

Re: [Python-Dev] trouble building 3.3

2014-03-17 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/17/2014 3:57 PM, Sean Felipe Wolfe wrote: I'm working on some IDLE oriented bugs and I'm having some trouble building the 3.3 branch: Starting today, Idle for 3.3 is no more patched. 2.7, 3.4, and 3.5 will be patched for now. -- Terry Jan Reedy

Re: [Python-Dev] Whats New in 3.4 is pretty much done...

2014-03-13 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/13/2014 7:34 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Christian Heimes writes: But I don't want it to sound like an advert... Suggestions? Not to worry. It *can't* be an advert -- it's all true, and there are no irrelevant half-naked glistening bodies. (Former newts in the pond don't count.)

Re: [Python-Dev] undocumented help() function change in Python 3.4?

2014-03-07 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/7/2014 3:10 PM, Jurko Gospodnetić wrote: Hi. I just noticed that the way help() function displays a function signature changed between Python 3.3 3.4 but I can not find this documented anywhere. Here's a matching example in both Python 3.3 Python 3.4 for comparison:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 463: Exception-catching expressions

2014-03-05 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/5/2014 8:15 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Wed, Mar 05, 2014 at 12:57:03PM -0800, Thomas Wouters wrote: On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: +Had this facility existed early in Python's history, there would have been +no need to create dict.get() and

Re: [Python-Dev] Cherry-pick between Python 3.4 RC2 and final?

2014-03-03 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/3/2014 7:13 AM, Larry Hastings wrote: On 03/03/2014 03:01 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi, I would like to know if the cherry-picking rule still applies for Python 3.4 final? Can I open an issue if I want to see a changeset in the final version? Sadly, yes. Doc changes appear online

Re: [Python-Dev] Five reviews to get yours reviewed?

2014-03-02 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/2/2014 1:51 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 4:07 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: On 3/1/2014 7:11 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: I have a couple of patches outstanding, notably issue 20249 [2], which is a small change, has a patch, and has no activity or nosying since

[Python-Dev] unicode_string future, str - basestring, fix or feature

2014-03-02 Thread Terry Reedy
Suppose a 2.7 standard library function is documented as taking a 'string' argument, such as these examples from the turtle module. pencolor(colorstring) Set pencolor to colorstring, which is a Tk color specification string, such as red, yellow, or #33cc8c. turtle.shape(name=None)

Re: [Python-Dev] unicode_string future, str - basestring, fix or feature

2014-03-02 Thread Terry Reedy
not a good idea to switch from str to basestring is when the data is meant to be binary -- but in this case it's clearly text (we can also tell from what the same code looks like in Python 3 :-). Thanks to both of you. 'bugfix' noted on the issue. On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Terry Reedy tjre

Re: [Python-Dev] unicode_string future, str - basestring, fix or feature

2014-03-02 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/2/2014 4:23 PM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 02.03.14 22:01, Terry Reedy написав(ла): Is this a programmer error for passing unicode instead of string, or a library error for not accepting unicode? Is changing 'isinstance(x, str)' in the library (with whatever other changes are needed) a bugfix

Re: [Python-Dev] Wave module support for floating point data

2014-03-01 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/1/2014 2:57 PM, Sebastian Kraft wrote: Hi everybody, more than a year ago I have submitted a patch to enhance the Wave module with read/write support for floating point data. http://bugs.python.org/issue16525 Up till now this patch has not been applied nor did I get feedback if anything

Re: [Python-Dev] Wave module support for floating point data

2014-03-01 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/1/2014 3:25 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Sat, 01 Mar 2014 15:08:00 -0500 Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: On 3/1/2014 2:57 PM, Sebastian Kraft wrote: Hi everybody, more than a year ago I have submitted a patch to enhance the Wave module with read/write support for floating point data

Re: [Python-Dev] Five reviews to get yours reviewed?

2014-03-01 Thread Terry Reedy
On 3/1/2014 7:11 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: Way back in 2012, Martin Löwis declared a standing offer on this list to get issue patches reviewed: review five issues and he'll review one of yours. As I remember, he set a pretty low bar for 'review', lowing that I think you are thinking. I

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.3.4150

2014-02-28 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/28/2014 12:05 PM, Burgoon, Jason wrote: One of the shortcuts ‘Start Menu\Programs\Python 3.3\ Module Docs’ is not getting launched. When I launch this shortcut, it is not opening any window. I have tried with admin user and non-admin user. Is this expected behavior? No, it is a bug that

[Python-Dev] GSoC 2014 - Status for Core Python

2014-02-26 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/26/2014 12:34 PM, Paul Moore wrote: The subject of this email mentions GSoC, it's probably worth clarifying that the GSoC process is still under way and there isn't (as far as I know, I'm not involved myself) a confirmed list of mentors and projects in place yet. There is a confirmed

Re: [Python-Dev] Running 2.7 tests on OS X

2014-02-25 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/25/2014 6:25 AM, Rik wrote: I want to try to submit a patch for 2.7, but I don't know how to run the tests for the 2.7 branch. `./configure` doesn't seem to create a `python.exe` file on the 2.7 branch on OS X Mavericks, and I do need this file according to this guide:

Re: [Python-Dev] Python Remote Code Execution in socket.recvfrom_into()

2014-02-25 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/25/2014 8:32 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:21 AM, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: Instead of pre-generating one set of values that can be be used to DoS things you have to pre-generate 256 sets of values and try them until you get the right one. It’s like

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2014 - Email Module

2014-02-25 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/25/2014 8:56 PM, Surya wrote: Hey there, I am Surya, studying final year of Engineering. I have looked into Core Python's ideas list and got interested in Email module. I've been working on Django over the past few years, and now like to work on slightly a different layer of protocols

Re: [Python-Dev] rpm needs python

2014-02-21 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/21/2014 2:06 AM, anju Tiwari wrote: I have two version of python 2.4 and 2.7. By default python version is 2.4 . I want to install need to install some rpm which needs python 2.7 interpreter. how can I enable 2.7 interpreter for only those packages which are requiring python 2.7, I don’t

Re: [Python-Dev] What is 'default' point to now?

2014-02-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/20/2014 11:58 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: Now that Larry is working on the 3.4.0 branch away from default, what is default pointing to? 3.4.1 or 3.5? Until a 3.4 branch is split off, default is effectively 3.4.1, which means bugfixes only. -- Terry Jan Reedy

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-18 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/18/2014 12:11 AM, Greg Ewing wrote: Nobody is asking for a return to the arbitrary-but- [in]consistent mess of Python 2, only to bring back *one* special case, i.e. None comparing less than everything else. For a None, that is only the fallback rule if a does not handle the comparison.

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-18 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/18/2014 2:35 AM, Greg Ewing wrote: results = sorted(invoices, key=attrgetter('duedate'), none='first') I think this is the best idea on the thread. As a pure enhancement, it could be added in 3.5. The only tricky part of the implementation is maintaining stability of the sort. The

Re: [Python-Dev] python 3 niggle: None 1 raises TypeError

2014-02-18 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/18/2014 12:32 AM, Greg Ewing wrote: Terry Reedy wrote: To make None a true bottom object, the rich comparison methods would have to special-case None as either argument before looking at the __rc__ special methods of either. I don't think it would be necessary to go that far

[Python-Dev] Treating tokenize.Untokenizer as private

2014-02-18 Thread Terry Reedy
I am working through the multiple bugs afflicting tokenize.untokenize, which is described in the tokenize doc and has an even longer docstring. While the function could be implemented as one 70-line function, it happens to be implemented as a 4-line wrapper for a completely undocumented

<    3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   >