Re: [Python-Dev] [format] Restrict fill characters for numerical values

2009-11-11 Thread Eric Smith
Stefan Krah wrote: Hi, I think http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3101/ is too liberal with the choice of fill characters for numerical values. As far as I can see, this is quite legal: Python 2.7a0 (trunk:76132M, Nov 6 2009, 15:20:35) [GCC 4.1.3 20080623 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.1.2-23ubuntu3

Re: [Python-Dev] [format] Restrict fill characters for numerical values

2009-11-11 Thread Eric Smith
Stefan Krah wrote: Eric Smith wrote: Stefan Krah wrote: Hi, I think http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3101/ is too liberal with the choice of fill characters for numerical values. As far as I can see, this is quite legal: Python 2.7a0 (trunk:76132M, Nov 6 2009, 15:20:35) [GCC 4.1.3

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 382 status

2009-11-11 Thread Eric Smith
Tarek Ziadé wrote: I was wondering what's the status of PEP 382. Is anyone (MvL?) is going to start to work on its implementation for Python 2.7/3.2 inclusion ? If Martin isn't interested in doing it, I'll take a try at it. But I'll need some rough guidance on the implementation approach. Er

Re: [Python-Dev] Removal of intobject.h in 3.1

2009-11-21 Thread Eric Smith
M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Since package developers are just starting to port things to 3.x and many appear to be considering supporting both 2.7 and 3.1 (including myself), I find it a bit strange that such an import aliasing header was removed in 3.1. There's some discussion of this at http://bugs.

[Python-Dev] Unicode locale values in 2.7

2009-12-03 Thread Eric Smith
While researching http://bugs.python.org/issue7327, I've come to the conclusion that trunk handles locales incorrectly in regards to Unicode. Fixing this would be the first step toward resolving this issue with float and Decimal locale-aware formatting. The issue concerns the locale "cs_CZ.UTF-

Re: [Python-Dev] Sort out formatting differences in decimal and float

2009-12-05 Thread Eric Smith
Mark Dickinson wrote: I find it odd that, for float formatting, the choice of fill character affects whether commas are inserted: Python 3.2a0 (py3k:76671, Dec 4 2009, 18:55:54) [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5646) (dot 1)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more infor

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposing PEP 386 for addition

2009-12-10 Thread Eric Smith
Tarek Ziadé wrote: Also, the word "rational" is not familiar to me in the context of versions; is this term known outside of this proposal? I couldn't find any reference to it. Do you have a better suggestion ? I was thinking about StandardVersion but "Standard" doesn't really express what we w

Re: [Python-Dev] First draft of "sysconfig"

2009-12-12 Thread Eric Smith
Tarek Ziadé wrote: On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: [...] 'nt': { 'stdlib': '$base/Lib', 'platstdlib': '$base/Lib', 'purelib': '$base/Lib/site-packages', 'platlib': '$base/Lib/site-packages', 'include': '$base/include', 'platinclud

Re: [Python-Dev] Improve open() to support reading file starting with an unicode BOM

2010-01-08 Thread Eric Smith
>> Shouldn't this encoding guessing be a separate function that you call >> on either a file or a seekable stream ? >> >> After all, detecting encodings is just as useful to have for non-file >> streams. > > Other stream sources typically have out-of-band ways to signal the > encoding: only when r

Re: [Python-Dev] scripts, applets, and applications (Was Re: PyCon Keynote)

2010-01-27 Thread Eric Smith
This discussion probably belongs on the distutils list. Ron Adam wrote: Can I make my efforts in developing a (module, package, script, or application) a lot easier if I keep certain things in mind? Are there any best practices I should keep in mind if I intend to distribute my work? Are ther

Re: [Python-Dev] Absolute imports in Python 2.x?

2010-02-02 Thread Eric Smith
Mark Dickinson wrote: What are the current plans for PEP 328 (the absolute imports PEP) in Python 2.x? The PEP says: """In Python 2.6, any import statement that results in an intra-package import will raise DeprecationWarning (this also applies to from <> import that fails to use the relative i

Re: [Python-Dev] Absolute imports in Python 2.x?

2010-02-03 Thread Eric Smith
Mark Dickinson wrote: On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Eric Smith wrote: Mark Dickinson wrote: What are the current plans for PEP 328 (the absolute imports PEP) in Python 2.x? Not sure about the decision one way or the other. But if there's not going to be a 2.8, and if DeprecationWar

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3147: PYC Repository Directories

2010-02-04 Thread Eric Smith
Glenn Linderman wrote: On approximately 1/30/2010 4:00 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Barry Warsaw: When the Python executable is given a `-R` flag, or the environment variable `$PYTHONPYR` is set, then Python will create a `foo.pyr` directory and write a `pyc` file to th

Re: [Python-Dev] deprecated stuff in standard library

2010-02-19 Thread Eric Smith
Sjoerd Mullender wrote: On 2010-02-19 14:10, Guido van Rossum wrote: Isn't mhlib itself deprecated? (It's gone in Py3k.) I wouldn't like that, but it is beside my point. If a module is deprecated, then it should not be used in released code. If mhlib is deprecated, it doesn't tell you about i

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal for virtualenv functionality in Python

2010-02-19 Thread Eric Smith
Glenn Linderman wrote: On approximately 2/19/2010 1:18 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of P.J. Eby: At 01:49 PM 2/19/2010 -0500, Ian Bicking wrote: I'm not sure how this should best work on Windows (without symlinks, and where things generally work differently), but I would

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal for virtualenv functionality in Python

2010-02-20 Thread Eric Smith
Glenn Linderman wrote: Shortcuts don't work from the shell (well, cmd.exe, at least), do they? Can't test from here. So if you can't test it, why would you state it as a fact... and then back-pedal? :) It was a question, not a statement! Plus, I figured I could con someone into testing it

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal for virtualenv functionality in Python

2010-02-20 Thread Eric Smith
Christian Heimes wrote: As long as Python supports XP we shouldn't use symlinks on Windows for stuff like virtualenv. The python.exe on Windows is small (just a few kb) since it is linked against the dll. Let's copy it and we are on the safe side. +1. Even if we dropped XP I'm not sure moving

Re: [Python-Dev] some notes from the first part of the lang summit

2010-02-21 Thread Eric Smith
Steven Bethard wrote: On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: My notes from the session I led: + argparse - Same issues brought up. For those of us not at PyCon, what were the issues? I think they were all related to deprecation of optparse, not anything to do with argpar

Re: [Python-Dev] some notes from the first part of the lang summit

2010-02-21 Thread Eric Smith
Brett Cannon wrote: Yes, DeprecationWarning is now silent under Python 2.7 and 3.1 so a DeprecationWarning would only pop up if developers exposed DeprecationWarning. But if the module is not about to be removed in 3.x then I think regardless of the silence of both warnings it should stay Pend

[Python-Dev] 3.1 and 2.7 break format() when used with complex (sometimes)

2010-02-22 Thread Eric Smith
This code works on 2.6 and 3.0: >>> format(1+1j, '10s') '(1+1j)' That's because format ends up calling object.__format__ because complex doesn't have its own __format__. Then object.__format__ calls str(self) which returns '(1+1j)'. So the original call basically turns into "format('(1

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.1 and 2.7 break format() when used with complex (sometimes)

2010-02-22 Thread Eric Smith
Eric Smith wrote: This code works on 2.6 and 3.0: >>> format(1+1j, '10s') '(1+1j)' That's because format ends up calling object.__format__ because complex doesn't have its own __format__. Then object.__format__ calls str(self) which returns '

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.1 and 2.7 break format() when used with complex (sometimes)

2010-02-23 Thread Eric Smith
The root cause of this problem is object.__format__, which is basically: def __format__(self, fmt): return str(self).__format__(fmt) So here we're changing the type of the object (to str) but still keeping the same format string. That doesn't make any sense: the format string is type specifi

[Python-Dev] Add alternate float formatting styles to new-style formatting: allowed under moratorium?

2010-02-24 Thread Eric Smith
http://bugs.python.org/issue7094 proposes adding "alternate" formatting [1] to floating point new-style formatting (float.__format__ and probably Decimal.__format__). I'd like to add this to make automated translation from %-formatting strings to str.format strings easier. Would this be allowe

Re: [Python-Dev] Desired changes to Hg emails to python-checkins

2010-03-04 Thread Eric Smith
Are the diffs gone for some deliberate reason? I realize the link tells me the changes, but I'll review a lot more code if the diffs show up in my inbox than if I have to fire up a browser, especially from my phone. Eric. Brett Cannon wrote: 1) I miss not having the affected files listed in

Re: [Python-Dev] argparse ugliness

2010-03-10 Thread Eric Smith
Nick Coghlan wrote: Greg Ewing wrote: Steven Bethard wrote: Because the names are so long and you'd have to import them, I've left them as private attributes of the module, but if there's really demand, we could rename them to argparse.StoreTrueAction, etc. What's wrong with just StoreTrue?

Re: [Python-Dev] Patch to telnetlib.py

2010-03-13 Thread Eric Smith
Can you create an issue on the bug tracker? Otherwise this will get lost. Eric. On 3/13/2010 12:24 PM, gregory dudek wrote: The Telnet module telnetlib.py can be very slow -- unusably slow -- for large automated data transfers. There are typically done in raw mode. The attached patch greatly

Re: [Python-Dev] Bug? syslog.openlog using ident "python" by default.

2010-03-19 Thread Eric Smith
Sean Reifschneider wrote: If you call: from syslog import syslog, openlog syslog('My error message') Something like the following gets logged: Mar 18 05:20:22 guin python: My error message ^^ Where I'm annoyed by the "python" in the above. This is pulled

Re: [Python-Dev] Request for commit access

2010-03-23 Thread Eric Smith
Brian Curtin wrote: Hi all, Having been active in bug triage and patch writing/reviewing since late 2009, it was suggested in the python-dev IRC channel that I request commit access to the repository. I'm primarily a Windows user and have worked with many of the other active contributors to d

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 6081: format string using mapping rather than kwargs

2010-03-25 Thread Eric Smith
Filip Gruszczyński wrote: From that spec, a straightforward API falls out: def format_mapping(self, kwds): # Method body actually written in C, so it can # easily invoke the internal formatting operation return do_string_format(self, NULL, kwds) Thanks a lot for the advice, I

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 6081: format string using mapping rather than kwargs

2010-03-25 Thread Eric Smith
Nick Coghlan wrote: Filip Gruszczyński wrote: I would appreciate any advice on this topic, even if this ticket would be dismissed altogether, as I would like to learn as much as possible on practices on developing Python. Raymond's use case is valid, but the currently proposed method name is w

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 6081: format string using mapping rather than kwargs

2010-03-25 Thread Eric Smith
Nick Coghlan wrote: Moving the decision of "how am I going to be called" to the time of writing the format string is a bit odd. On the other hand, the specially crafted format string does have the virtue of travelling far more easily through any APIs that wrap the basic format() method (since it

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 6081: format string using mapping rather than kwargs

2010-03-25 Thread Eric Smith
Nick Coghlan wrote: Completely agree on all points. Now we're just left with "is it worth expanding the str api for this?". I don't feel strongly either way. For something as core as the string API, we better feel darn strongly about it before we mess with it :) I'm inclined to leave it alone

Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Broken link to download (Mac OS X)

2010-04-14 Thread Eric Smith
In my case it was not a waste of time. I use MSDN for dev and testing. Just not for release building. "Steve Holden" wrote: >Paul Moore wrote: >> On 14 April 2010 07:37, Paul Rudin wrote: >>> "Martin v. Löwis" writes: >>> The major difference in the "do it yourself" attitude is that Mac

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop OS/2 support?

2010-04-17 Thread Eric Smith
Andrew MacIntyre wrote: It is nice to get heads-up messages about issues that might involve such support though, and it shouldn't take much searching to find me to enquire. Especially since aimacintyre is listed in Misc/maintainers.rst. ___ Python-D

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7b1 and argparse's version action

2010-04-18 Thread Eric Smith
Steven Bethard wrote: By the way, we could simplify the typical add_argument usage by adding "show program's version number and exit" as the default help for the 'version' action. Then you should just write: parser.add_argument('--version', action='version', version='') I like this the bes

Re: [Python-Dev] argparse ambiguity handling

2010-04-21 Thread Eric Smith
Cameron Simpson wrote: On 20Apr2010 15:27, Neal Becker wrote: | Steven Bethard wrote: | | > On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Neal Becker wrote: | >> I've noticed argparse ambiguity handling has changed a bit over last few | >> revisions. | >> | >> I have cases where 1 valid input is a prefix

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 376

2010-04-22 Thread Eric Smith
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: -On [20100422 10:55], Tarek Ziadé (ziade.ta...@gmail.com) wrote: The next big piece is the FHS-compatible handling of resource files, which will worth a PEP on its own. You do realize, I hope, that FHS is only followed by Linux distributions and not even fu

Re: [Python-Dev] argparse suggestion

2010-04-26 Thread Eric Smith
Sounds good to me (subject to arguing about spellings, case insensitivity, etc.). Just so it doesn't get lost, I created issue 8538 to track it. Neal Becker wrote: steven.beth...@gmail.com made a very nice module for me to enhance argparse called argparse_bool.py, which contains ConfigureActio

Re: [Python-Dev] Make 'normal' the default tracker priority level

2010-04-26 Thread Eric Smith
ike (in the last hour) Jesus Crea > (#8536), Eric Smith (*8538), and Mark Dickenson (*8540). You neglected my 2 dupes at 8537 and 8539! :) > If possible, I think 'normal' should be the default in the hox or else > there shoul

Re: [Python-Dev] Make 'normal' the default tracker priority level

2010-04-26 Thread Eric Smith
Martin v. Löwis wrote: If possible, I think 'normal' should be the default in the hox or else there should be some sort of auto replacement. Makes sense to me. I have now changed to make 'normal' the default priority for new issues. Shall I also set the priority on all past issues to normal wh

Re: [Python-Dev] Running Clang 2.7's static analyzer over the code base

2010-05-04 Thread Eric Smith
Dirkjan Ochtman wrote: On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 14:41, Antoine Pitrou wrote: I think we should reindent all 3 branches. Most of the work can probably be scripted (str.replace("\t", " " * 4)), and then a visual pass is necessary to fix vertical alignments and the like. If the script is robust en

[Python-Dev] Did I miss the decision to untabify all of the C code?

2010-05-05 Thread Eric Smith
It looks like we're moving ahead with removing tabs. Was there consensus on this? Last I saw Antoine had written a script that might do what we want, but hadn't been thoroughly tested. Now I've seen a few checkins for files that have been run through the script. What gives? And why do this s

Re: [Python-Dev] Did I miss the decision to untabify all of the C code?

2010-05-05 Thread Eric Smith
Antoine Pitrou wrote: Eric Smith trueblade.com> writes: Last I saw Antoine had written a script that might do what we want, but hadn't been thoroughly tested. Now I've seen a few checkins for files that have been run through the script. As far as I'm concerned, it was a

Re: [Python-Dev] bug or feature? fixing argparse's default help value for version actions

2010-05-20 Thread Eric Smith
Brett Cannon wrote: In the end it's Benjamin's call, but my vote is to make the change. The chances someone wanted None as their help message is so bloody small and this is such a good UX change that I'm +1 on making the change. I completely agree. -- Eric. ___

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement

2010-05-28 Thread Eric Smith
Steven D'Aprano wrote: I have suggested a way to move the existing concurrency stuff without breaking backwards compatibility, and Terry Reedy asked if it would work. I haven't seen any responses, either positive or negative. For the record, my suggestion was: for each concurrency modules:

[Python-Dev] Implementing PEP 382, Namespace Packages

2010-05-29 Thread Eric Smith
Last night Barry Warsaw, Jason Coombs, and I met to work on implementing PEP 382. As part of my research, I came across this email from Martin: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2009-May/089316.html In it he says that PEP 382 is being deferred until it can address PEP 302 loaders. I c

Re: [Python-Dev] Future of 2.x.

2010-06-09 Thread Eric Smith
> On 6/9/2010 4:07 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Closed issues are not lost. They can still be searched and the result > downloaded. > >> A keyword would do. Please don't add a status or something like that, >> though. > > I believe Type: feature request; Version: 2.7; Resolution wont fix > sho

Re: [Python-Dev] thoughts on the bytes/string discussion

2010-06-27 Thread Eric Smith
On 6/27/2010 5:48 AM, Greg Ewing wrote: Stefan Behnel wrote: Greg Ewing, 26.06.2010 09:58: Would there be any sanity in having an option to compile Python with UTF-8 as the internal string representation? It would break Py_UNICODE, because the internal size of a unicode character would no lo

Re: [Python-Dev] A grammatical oddity: trailing commas in argument lists.

2010-07-09 Thread Eric Smith
On 7/9/10 10:40 AM, Mark Dickinson wrote: While looking at a parser module issue (http://bugs.python.org/issue9154) I noticed that Python's grammar doesn't permit trailing commas after keyword-only args. That is, def f(a, b,): pass is valid syntax, while def f(*, a, b,): pass is n

Re: [Python-Dev] A grammatical oddity: trailing commas in argument lists.

2010-07-09 Thread Eric Smith
On 7/9/2010 4:42 PM, Georg Brandl wrote: Am 09.07.2010 22:26, schrieb Mark Dickinson: On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Dino Viehland wrote: Terry wrote: This violates the important principle that allowed def and call arg sequences should match to the extent sensible and possible. In this sense

Re: [Python-Dev] New regex module for 3.2?

2010-07-11 Thread Eric Smith
On 7/11/2010 5:19 AM, anatoly techtonik wrote: On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Jeffrey Yasskin wrote: While the re2 comparison might be interesting from an abstract standpoint, it intentionally supports a different regex language from Python so that it can run faster and use less memory. Since

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

2010-07-12 Thread Eric Smith
On 7/12/2010 5:57 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2010/7/12 "Martin v. Löwis": Not normally, no - there's no easy way to connect a checkin message to a committer's email address, There's a one-to-one mapping somewhere. Unfortunately, no: we don't have email addresses of all committers. What a

Re: [Python-Dev] [Idle-dev] Removing IDLE from the standard library

2010-07-12 Thread Eric Smith
On 7/12/2010 6:04 PM, Michael Foord wrote: Given how high traffic python-checkins is I don't consider that a reasonable place to send follow-up and nor do I consider it the responsibility of committers to monitor it. As you said earlier this *isn't* in our standard dev procedures and nor do I thi

Re: [Python-Dev] python-checkins replies

2010-07-14 Thread Eric Smith
On 7/14/2010 4:21 AM, Georg Brandl wrote: Am 13.07.2010 22:29, schrieb Brett Cannon: Given how high traffic python-checkins is I don't consider that a reasonable place to send follow-up and nor do I consider it the responsibility of committers to monitor i

Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Summit EuroPython 2010

2010-07-22 Thread Eric Smith
Thanks for writing this, Tim. On 7/21/10 11:11 AM, Tim Golden wrote: The issue of a __format__ equivalent for bytes was also raised as was the idea of object methods to render an object as string or bytes, which could be used in the polymorphic functions above. Does this mean bytes.__format__

Re: [Python-Dev] Python Language Summit EuroPython 2010

2010-07-25 Thread Eric Smith
On 7/23/10 2:44 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: Indeed, we meant b'...{}...{}...'.format(x, y). The problem is that it can't invoke x.__format__() or y.__format__() since those will return text strings instead of bytes. A proposed solution was to try x.__bformat__() etc. Another proposed solution was

Re: [Python-Dev] View tracker patches with ViewVC?

2010-07-27 Thread Eric Smith
On 7/27/10 2:31 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 7/27/2010 1:48 PM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote: Multicolored diffs may look impressive the first time you see them, Side-by-side was the important part > Copying code from side by side view may or may not work depending on your browser. It is a nu

Re: [Python-Dev] View tracker patches with ViewVC?

2010-07-27 Thread Eric Smith
> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > .. >> I agree with Terry that this would be a useful feature to have >> integrated >> with the tracker. I'd use it. But until someone write it, it's an >> academic >> point. > > I don&

Re: [Python-Dev] #2651 - KeyError does not round trip strings

2010-08-04 Thread Eric Smith
On 8/4/2010 6:09 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 8:02 AM, Fred Drake wrote: On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: and use a default message of "'Key not found: %r' % key" if the key argument is supplied without an explicit message I suspect you meant a default m

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding PEP consistent aliases for names that don't currently conform

2009-03-03 Thread Eric Smith
We need a really long lead time before we can remove these. I recommend starting with a *silent* deprecation in 3.1 combined with a PR offensive for the new names. I think the old names basically have to live forever in some way, due to loading old pickles. Remember the problems we had when we

Re: [Python-Dev] Ext4 data loss

2009-03-11 Thread Eric Smith
Antoine Pitrou wrote: I think your "synced" flag is too vague. Some applications may need the file to be synced on close(), but some others may need it to be synced at regular intervals, or after each write(), etc. Why wouldn't sync just be an optional argument to close(), at least for the "sy

Re: [Python-Dev] Ext4 data loss

2009-03-11 Thread Eric Smith
Antoine Pitrou wrote: Eric Smith trueblade.com> writes: Why wouldn't sync just be an optional argument to close(), at least for the "sync_on_close" case? It wouldn't work with the "with" statement. Well, that is a good reason, then! _

[Python-Dev] Can I modify string.Formatter._vformat?

2009-03-11 Thread Eric Smith
I'm implementing support for auto-numbering of str.format() fields (see http://bugs.python.org/issue5237). I'm reasonably sure that when I'm done modifying the C implementation I'll need to change the signatures of string.Formatter._vformat, str._formatter_parser, and/or str._formatter_field_na

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-ideas] Rough draft: Proposed format specifier for a thousands separator (discussion moved from python-dev)

2009-03-12 Thread Eric Smith
Raymond Hettinger wrote: Eric Smith pointed-out that these are already handled by the "n" specifier in the locale module (albiet only for integers). It's supported by float, but it's just not very useful. For Decimal it's unsupported. Maybe this isn't a

Re: [Python-Dev] "setuptools has divided the Python community"

2009-03-26 Thread Eric Smith
P.J. Eby wrote: > As someone else suggested, moving some of the functionality to PEP 302 > interfaces would also help. Most of the code, though, deals with > locating/inspecting installed distributions, resolving version > requirements, and managing sys.path. And most of the nastiest > complexit

Re: [Python-Dev] version compare function into main lib

2009-03-27 Thread Eric Smith
anatoly techtonik wrote: Correct me if I wrong, but shouldn't Python include function for version comparisons? What do you think about adding cmpversions(first, second, strict=false) based on distutils into main lib? distutils _is_ already in the "main lib", that is, the standard library.

Re: [Python-Dev] "setuptools has divided the Python community"

2009-03-27 Thread Eric Smith
M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On 2009-03-27 04:19, Guido van Rossum wrote: - keep distutils, but start deprecating certain higher-level functionality in it (e.g. bdist_rpm) - don't try to provide higher-level functionality in the stdlib, but instead let third party tools built on top of these core APIs c

Re: [Python-Dev] "setuptools has divided the Python community"

2009-03-27 Thread Eric Smith
Olemis Lang wrote: On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Paul Moore wrote: 2009/3/27 Guido van Rossum : - keep distutils, but start deprecating certain higher-level functionality in it (e.g. bdist_rpm) - don't try to provide higher-level functionality in the stdlib, but instead let third party tool

Re: [Python-Dev] version compare function into main lib

2009-03-27 Thread Eric Smith
Martin v. Löwis wrote: Correct me if I wrong, but shouldn't Python include function for version comparisons? On the packaging summit yesterday, people agreed that yes, we should have something like that in the standard library, and it should be more powerful than what distutils currently offers

Re: [Python-Dev] version compare function into main lib

2009-03-27 Thread Eric Smith
Mart Sõmermaa wrote: Instead of trying to parse some version string, distutils should require defining the version as tuple with well-defined entries - much like what we have in sys.version_info for Python. The developer can then still use whatever string format s/he wants.

Re: [Python-Dev] "setuptools has divided the Python community"

2009-03-27 Thread Eric Smith
M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On 2009-03-27 17:07, P.J. Eby wrote: At 11:37 PM 3/26/2009 -0500, Eric Smith wrote: P.J. Eby wrote: As someone else suggested, moving some of the functionality to PEP 302 interfaces would also help. Most of the code, though, deals with locating/inspecting installed

Re: [Python-Dev] "setuptools has divided the Python community"

2009-03-27 Thread Eric Smith
Olemis Lang wrote: I also think the feature should go. If you want functionality that's so difficult to provide when you install as a zip file, the answer is not to make things more complex, but to not install as zip files. What about environments like Google App Engine ? I mean, AFAIK using Z

Re: [Python-Dev] version compare function into main lib

2009-03-27 Thread Eric Smith
Martin v. Löwis wrote: I got the impression that people are generally happy with what setuptools provides for version parsing and comparison. Does anyone think that's not a good model? Procedurally, I think it's a very bad approach. I don't mind the setuptools implementation being used as a

Re: [Python-Dev] splitting out bdist_*

2009-03-27 Thread Eric Smith
Martin v. Löwis wrote: I do think that it's relevant that the respective operating system packagers don't find bdist_rpm, bdist_deb, et. al. useful. It's not very useful to have a bdist_deb that nobody actually builds debs with. I think that conclusion is invalid: just because the distributi

Re: [Python-Dev] Version strings

2009-03-27 Thread Eric Smith
Martin v. Löwis wrote: I just collected the version strings of versions that got released to PyPI, and put up the list on http://www.dcl.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/home/loewis/versions That's excellent, thank you. The following chunk of text is present. I don't really care, except that it might mean

Re: [Python-Dev] splitting out bdist_*

2009-03-28 Thread Eric Smith
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Eric Smith writes: > And I personally use bdist_rpm for my work, which I distribute to a farm > of servers under my control. So no doubt it's used. Sure, but use for internal distribution is very different from to problem its being asked to solve no

Re: [Python-Dev] CPython and C++ object GC

2009-03-30 Thread Eric Smith
Nick Coghlan wrote: Csaba Balazs wrote: Hello Everybody, I would like to use a C++ gui library with the following (simplified) interface in Python. This is a question for python-list/comp.lang.python (i.e. development *using* Python, including the C API), not python-dev (which is for developm

Re: [Python-Dev] Test failures under Windows?

2009-03-31 Thread Eric Smith
Kristján Valur Jónsson wrote: Btw, I am working on finding out the test suite failures for test_multiprocessing. Some of those are caused by force builds on a branch, so make sure the errors are still occurring before you put too much effort into this. We made the branch before some recent f

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 382: Namespace Packages

2009-04-06 Thread Eric Smith
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Apr 6, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: > >> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:33 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >>> On 2009-04-02 17:32, Martin v. Löwis wrote: I propose the following PEP for inclusion to Python 3.1. >>> >>> Thanks for picking t

Re: [Python-Dev] Shorter float repr in Python 3.1?

2009-04-07 Thread Eric Smith
Mark Dickinson wrote: One PyCon 2009 sprint later, Eric Smith and I have produced the py3k-short-float-repr branch, which implements short repr of floats and also does some major cleaning up of the current float formatting functions. We've gone for the {fast, correct} pairing. We'd l

[Python-Dev] Deprecating PyOS_ascii_formatd

2009-04-08 Thread Eric Smith
Assuming that Mark's and my changes in the py3k-short-float-repr branch get checked in shortly, I'd like to deprecate PyOS_ascii_formatd. Its functionality is largely being replaced by PyOS_double_to_string, which we're introducing on our branch. PyOS_ascii_formatd was introduced to fix the is

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating PyOS_ascii_formatd

2009-04-09 Thread Eric Smith
Nick Coghlan wrote: Eric Smith wrote: And as a reminder, the py3k-short-float-repr changes are on Rietveld at http://codereview.appspot.com/33084/show. So far, no comments. Looks like you were able to delete some fairly respectable chunks of redundant code! Wait until you see how much

Re: [Python-Dev] Shorter float repr in Python 3.1?

2009-04-13 Thread Eric Smith
Mark has uploaded our newest work to Rietveld, again at http://codereview.appspot.com/33084/show. Since the last version, Mark has added 387 support (and other fixes) and I've added localized formatting ('n') back in as well as ',' formatting for float and int. I think this addresses all open i

Re: [Python-Dev] Shorter float repr in Python 3.1?

2009-04-13 Thread Eric Smith
Benjamin Peterson wrote: Cool. Will you use svnmerge.py to integrate the branch? After having some odd behavior merging the io-c branch, suggest you just apply a patch to the py3k branch, We're just going to apply 2 patches, without using svnmerge. First we'll add new files and the configure c

Re: [Python-Dev] Shorter float repr in Python 3.1?

2009-04-14 Thread Eric Smith
Ned Deily wrote: In article <49e3d34e.8040...@trueblade.com>, Eric Smith wrote: Before then, if anyone could build and test the py3k-short-float-repr branch on any of the following machines, that would be great: [...] Something bigendian, like a G4 Mac I'll crank up some OS

Re: [Python-Dev] Shorter float repr in Python 3.1?

2009-04-14 Thread Eric Smith
Ned Deily wrote: I'll crank up some OS X installer builds and run them on G3 and G4 Macs vs 32-/64- Intel. Any tests of interest beyond the default regttest.py? FIrst attempt was a fat (32-bit i386 and ppc) build on 10.5 targeted for 10.3 and above; this is the similar to recent python.org OS

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue5434: datetime.monthdelta

2009-04-16 Thread Eric Smith
Jess Austin wrote: What other behavior options besides "last-valid-day-of-the-month" would you like to see? - Add 30 days to the source date. I'm sure there are others. Followups to python-ideas. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org htt

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.1 beta blockers

2009-04-21 Thread Eric Smith
Alessio Giovanni Baroni wrote: There are some cases of OutOfMemory? On my machine the float->string conversion is all ok. Also 'make test' is all ok. I assume you're talking about issue 5775. I think it's all explained in the bug report. Basically, the float->string conversion can now return

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.1 beta blockers

2009-04-21 Thread Eric Smith
Eric Smith wrote: Alessio Giovanni Baroni wrote: There are some cases of OutOfMemory? On my machine the float->string conversion is all ok. Also 'make test' is all ok. I assume you're talking about issue 5775. I think it's all explained in the bug report. Basic

Re: [Python-Dev] Summary of Python tracker Issues

2009-04-24 Thread Eric Smith
Mark Dickinson wrote: On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: In going through this, I notice a lot of effort by Mark Dickenson and others Many others, but Eric Smith's name needs to be in big lights here. There's no way the short float repr would have been ready for 3.1 if Eric h

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating PyOS_ascii_formatd

2009-04-24 Thread Eric Smith
Eric Smith wrote: Assuming that Mark's and my changes in the py3k-short-float-repr branch get checked in shortly, I'd like to deprecate PyOS_ascii_formatd. Its functionality is largely being replaced by PyOS_double_to_string, which we're introducing on our branch. We've

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating PyOS_ascii_formatd

2009-04-25 Thread Eric Smith
Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2009/4/24 Eric Smith : My proposal is to deprecate PyOS_ascii_formatd in 3.1 and remove it in 3.2. Having heard no dissent, I'd like to go ahead and deprecate this API. What are the mechanics of deprecating this? Just documentation, or is there something I should

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r71946 - peps/trunk/pep-0315.txt

2009-04-25 Thread Eric Smith
You might want to note in the PEP that the problem that's being solved is known as the "loop and a half" problem. http://www.cs.duke.edu/~ola/patterns/plopd/loops.html#loop-and-a-half raymond.hettinger wrote: Author: raymond.hettinger Date: Sun Apr 26 02:34:36 2009 New Revision: 71946 Log: Re

Re: [Python-Dev] Two proposed changes to float formatting

2009-04-26 Thread Eric Smith
Mark Dickinson wrote: I'd like to propose two minor changes to float and complex formatting, for 3.1. I don't think either change should prove particularly disruptive. (1) Currently, '%f' formatting automatically changes to '%g' formatting for numbers larger than 1e50. For example: ... I pro

Re: [Python-Dev] Two proposed changes to float formatting

2009-04-26 Thread Eric Smith
Mark Dickinson wrote: (1) Currently, '%f' formatting automatically changes to '%g' formatting for numbers larger than 1e50. For example: '%f' % 2**166. '93536104789177786765035829293842113257979682750464.00' '%f' % 2**167. '1.87072e+50' I propose removing this feature for 3.1 I don't

[Python-Dev] Windows buildbots failing test_types in trunk

2009-04-27 Thread Eric Smith
Mark Dickinson pointed out to me that the trunk buildbots are failing under Windows. After some analysis, I think this is because of a change I made to use _toupper in integer formatting. The correct solution to this is to implement issue 5793 to come up with a working, cross-platform, locale

Re: [Python-Dev] Dropping bytes "support" in json

2009-04-27 Thread Eric Smith
> I couldn't figure out a way to get rid of it short of multi-#including > "templates" and playing with the C preprocessor, however, and have the > nagging feeling the latter would be frowned upon by the maintainers. Not sure if this is exactly what you mean, but look at Objects/stringlib. str.for

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed: add support for UNC paths to all functions in ntpath

2009-04-29 Thread Eric Smith
Michael Foord wrote: Larry Hastings wrote: I've written a patch for Python 3.1 that changes os.path so it handles UNC paths on Windows: http://bugs.python.org/issue5799 +1 for the feature. I have to deal with Windows networks from time to time and this would be useful. +1 from me, too

[Python-Dev] svn down?

2009-05-01 Thread Eric Smith
When checking in, I get: Transmitting file data .svn: Commit failed (details follow): svn: Can't create directory '/data/repos/projects/db/transactions/72186-1.txn': Read-only file system With 'svn up', I get: svn: Can't find a temporary directory: Internal error

[Python-Dev] Changing float.__format__

2009-05-04 Thread Eric Smith
In issue 5920, Mark Dickinson raises an issue having to do with float.__format__ and how it handles the default format presentation type (that is, none of 'f', 'g', or 'e') versus how str() works on floats: http://bugs.python.org/issue5920 I agree with him that the current behavior is confusin

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