Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Steve Jorgensen writes:
> > I'm thinking of this specifically in terms of
> > sanitizing input,
> > assuming that later usage of the value might or might not properly
> > protect against potential vulnerabilities. This is also limited to
> > the case where the value is
On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:52 AM Ricky Teachey wrote:
> I have nothing particularly useful to add, only that this is potentially a
> really fantastic idea with a lot of promise, IMO.
>
> It would be nice to have some view objects with a lot of
> functionality that can be sliced not only for effici
I have nothing particularly useful to add, only that this is potentially a
really fantastic idea with a lot of promise, IMO.
It would be nice to have some view objects with a lot of functionality that
can be sliced not only for efficiency, but for other purposes. One might be
(note that below I am
Steve Jorgensen writes:
> I'm thinking of this specifically in terms of sanitizing input,
> assuming that later usage of the value might or might not properly
> protect against potential vulnerabilities. This is also limited to
> the case where the value is supposed to be a single path referri
Andrew Barnert via Python-ideas writes:
> > Which is why it's not wrong to say that a range object is an
> > iterator, but is IS wrong to say that it's Just and iterator ...
>
> No, they’re not iterators. You’ve got it backward—every iterator is
> an iterable, but most iterables are not iter
My personal experience of the most common problematic substitutions by tools
such as Outlook, Word & some web tools:
1. Double Quotes \u201c & \u201d “”
2. Single Quotes \u2018 & \u2019 ‘’
3. The m-hyphen \2013 –
4. Copyright © \xa9 and others, Registered ® \xae and trademark ™ \u2122
On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 04:28:38AM +, Steve Barnes wrote:
> So we currently have a situation where not only does whether code
> works or not depends on who typed it, in what environment, with what
> settings but also on the same factors for who received it
You say "currently", but that has
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 9:36 PM Andrew Barnert wrote:
Here is where I think you (Andrew) and I (Chris B.) differ in our goals. My
>> goal here is to have an easily accessible way to use the slice syntax to
>> get an iterable that does not make a copy.
>>
>
> It’s just a small difference in emp
Andrew,
I already have a module that I include in a couple of widely used utilities at
work that I called cmd_line_fixup (but I think that I like defancier better) it
is used on the command line options prior to processing to fix several of
these issues. This was written in response to the fr
On May 10, 2020, at 15:39, Christopher Barker wrote:
>
>
>> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 12:48 PM Andrew Barnert wrote:
>
>> Is there any way you can fix the reply quoting on your mail client, or
>> manually work around it?
>
> I'm trying -- sorry I've missed a few. It seems more and more "moder
On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 2:29 PM Steve Barnes wrote:
>
>
>
> So I thought that Steve made the opposite mistake, accidentally using regular
> ASCII quotes when he intended to use Unicode quotes. But it turns out that
> Steve's mail client sends emails with a HTML part and a plain text part, and
>
So I thought that Steve made the opposite mistake, accidentally using regular
ASCII quotes when he intended to use Unicode quotes. But it turns out that
Steve's mail client sends emails with a HTML part and a plain text part, and
the plain text part substitutes the ASCII quotes for smart quot
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 02:13:37PM -0400, Richard Damon wrote:
> A lot of this reminds me of a story told by a programming instructor in
> the 70's, he submitted a FORTRAN program deck to the machine, the
> complier gave him a warning on a statement which read INTEGER
> misspelled, it than ran the
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 9:05 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 01:17:17PM -0700, Andrew Barnert via Python-ideas
> wrote:
> > (By the way, the reason I used -f rather than —fix is that I can’t
> > figure out how to get the iPhone Mail.app to not replace double
> > hyphens with a
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 01:17:17PM -0700, Andrew Barnert via Python-ideas wrote:
> (By the way, the reason I used -f rather than —fix is that I can’t
> figure out how to get the iPhone Mail.app to not replace double
> hyphens with an em-dash, or even how to fix it when it does. All of
> the oth
I think it is a bad idea to change the design of Python because some
college professor teaching intro to programming very poorly might require
inappropriate tooling.
On Sun, May 10, 2020, 8:39 PM Jonathan Goble wrote:
> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 8:08 PM David Mertz wrote:
>
>> Why would you use
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 12:57:11PM -0700, Andrew Barnert via Python-ideas wrote:
> Can the error message actually include the Unicode character itself?
I can think of cases where that could be confusing, or mess up the
display of the error message. E.g. if it were an invisible character, or
swa
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 07:39:32PM -0400, Jonathan Goble wrote:
> Sometimes people are forced to use Word to type code. One example is
> creating user manuals.
MS Word is not the only word processor capable of creating user manuals.
The LibreOffice people, and others, would like a word :-)
If y
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 8:08 PM David Mertz wrote:
> Why would you use Word? LaTeX exists, and will export to PDF. Heck, the
> PDF export from Jupyter is quite good (by way of LaTeX).
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2020, 7:40 PM Jonathan Goble <
> Several of the questions required us to write Bash scripts o
Why would you use Word? LaTeX exists, and will export to PDF. Heck, the PDF
export from Jupyter is quite good (by way of LaTeX).
On Sun, May 10, 2020, 7:40 PM Jonathan Goble <
Several of the questions required us to write Bash scripts or Python
functions, and we were required to write all of that
By the way, did anyone else notice the irony that's Steve's examples of
invalid code is actually perfectly valid? Copying and pasting into the
interpreter shows that they are valid strings.
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 07:09:15AM +, Steve Barnes wrote:
> But the following all result in an error
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 4:00 AM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 07:09:15AM +, Steve Barnes wrote about
> Unicode dashes and quotes sneaking into code:
>
> > 2. Tell all users that they need to use a "proper" editor or IDE -
> > This seems like adding an additional barrie
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 7:34 PM Andrew Barnert via Python-ideas <
python-ideas@python.org> wrote:
> On May 10, 2020, at 14:33, Christopher Barker wrote:
> >
> > Having a "tabnanny-like" function / module in the stdlib would be nice,
> though I'd think a stand alone module in PyPi would be almost
On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 1:58 PM Alex Hall wrote:
>
> https://github.com/PythonCHB/islice-pep/blob/master/pep-xxx-islice.rst
>>
>> And the prototype implementation:
>>
>> https://github.com/PythonCHB/islice-pep/blob/master/islice.py
>>
>
> I think this is a good idea. For sequences I'm not sure ho
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 12:48 PM Andrew Barnert wrote:
> Is there any way you can fix the reply quoting on your mail client, or
> manually work around it?
>
I'm trying -- sorry I've missed a few. It seems more and more "modern"
email clients make "interspersed" posting really hard. But I hate bo
On May 10, 2020, at 14:33, Christopher Barker wrote:
>
> Having a "tabnanny-like" function / module in the stdlib would be nice,
> though I'd think a stand alone module in PyPi would be almost as good, and a
> good way to see if it gains traction.
Good point.
Plus, it might well turn out that
I wonder if The Fuck could be customize to handle these improved error
messages envisioned: https://github.com/nvbn/thefuck
It's a lovely tool. I don't mind the minor profanity, but when I teach I
add an alias of 'fix' for students to see instead.
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:34 PM Christopher Bar
On 5/10/2020 4:04 PM, Steve Jorgensen wrote:
I totally get what you're saying. For the sake of simplicity, I thought that
the 2 permissiveness options should be one that only prevents path traversal
and one that is extremely conservative, omitting characters that are often safe
and appropriat
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 1:17 PM Andrew Barnert via Python-ideas <
python-ideas@python.org> wrote:
> (By the way, the reason I used -f rather than —fix is that I can’t figure
> out how to get the iPhone Mail.app to not replace double hyphens with an
> em-dash, or even how to fix it when it does. Al
On Sun, 10 May 2020 14:13:37 -0400
Richard Damon wrote:
> An error like character (whatever) is not a quote (or is not a minus
> sign) seems similar. It is one thing to not recognize a funny
> character in the language, but to actually parse it well enough to
> give a message that says in effect,
Dan Sommers wrote:
> I know what sanitize means (in English and in the technical sense I
> believe you intend here), but can you provide some context and actual
> use cases?
> Sanitize on input so that your application code doesn't "accidentally"
> spit out the contents of /etc/shadow? Sanitize
On May 10, 2020, at 00:11, Steve Barnes wrote:
>
> What can be done?
I think there’s another option (in addition to improving SyntaxError, not
instead of it):
Add a defancier module to the stdlib. It has functions that take some text and
turn smart quotes into plain ASCII quotes, dashes and m
Dan Sommers wrote:
> On Sun, 10 May 2020 00:34:43 -
> "Steve Jorgensen" ste...@stevej.name wrote:
> > I believe the Python standard library should include
> > a means of
> > sanitizing a filesystem entry, and this should not be something
> > requiring a 3rd party package.
> > I'm not disagreein
On May 10, 2020, at 03:47, Ned Batchelder wrote:
>
> On 5/10/20 3:09 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:
>> Change the error message “SyntaxError: invalid character in identifier” to
>> include which character and it’s Unicode value so that it becomes
>> “SyntaxError: invalid character 0x201c “ in ident
On May 10, 2020, at 11:09, Christopher Barker wrote:
Is there any way you can fix the reply quoting on your mail client, or manually
work around it? I keep reading paragraphs and saying “why is he saying the same
thing I said” only to realize that you’re not, that’s just a quote from me that
i
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 8:20 PM Andrew Barnert wrote:
> On May 10, 2020, at 02:42, Alex Hall wrote:
> >
> > - Handling negative indices for sequences (is there any reason we don't
> have that now?)
>
> Presumably partly just to keep it minimal and simple. Itertools is all
> about transforming it
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 2:17 PM Richard Damon
wrote:
> An error like character (whatever) is not a quote (or is not a minus+0060
> sign) seems similar. It is one thing to not recognize a funny character
> in the language, but to actually parse it well enough to give a message
> that says in effec
On May 10, 2020, at 02:42, Alex Hall wrote:
>
> - Handling negative indices for sequences (is there any reason we don't have
> that now?)
Presumably partly just to keep it minimal and simple. Itertools is all about
transforming iterables into other iterables in as generic a way as possible.
N
A lot of this reminds me of a story told by a programming instructor in
the 70's, he submitted a FORTRAN program deck to the machine, the
complier gave him a warning on a statement which read INTEGER
misspelled, it than ran the program, but IGNORED the statement, even
though it clearly understood w
On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:11 PM Andrew Barnert wrote:
> I don’t think it invalidates the basic idea at all, just that it suggests
the design should be different.
Originally, dict returned lists for keys, values, and items. In 2.2,
iterator variants were added. In 3.0, the list and iterator varian
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 4:03 AM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I think that David(?) may have a Vim or Emacs mode that allows him to
> use Unicode chars as syntax?
>
I use the vim-conceal plugin: https://github.com/khzaw/vim-conceal. I know
that something similar exists for Emacs, but don't remember
To reinforce what others have said a bit:
It is absolutely OK to expect people to write code with a code editor.
Period. And having more than the alread two quote characters would be a
mess.
But this IS an issue, not with people writing code with tools meant for
writing text, but by people copyin
On Sun, 10 May 2020 00:34:43 -
"Steve Jorgensen" wrote:
> I believe the Python standard library should include a means of
> sanitizing a filesystem entry, and this should not be something
> requiring a 3rd party package.
I'm not disagreeing.
> What I am envisioning is a function (presumably
On 5/10/20 3:09 AM, Steve Barnes wrote:
Change the error message “SyntaxError: invalid character in
identifier” to include which character and it’s Unicode value so that
it becomes “SyntaxError: invalid character 0x201c “ in identifier” –
this is almost certainly the easiest change and fits w
Steve Jorgensen wrote:
> Steve Jorgensen wrote:
> > I believe the Python standard library should include
> > a means of sanitizing a filesystem
> > entry, and this should not be something requiring a 3rd party package.
> > One of reasons I think this should be in the standard lib is because that
>
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 5:00 AM Christopher Barker
wrote:
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 1:58 PM Alex Hall wrote:
>
>> I think this is a good idea. For sequences I'm not sure how big the
>> benefit is - I get that it's more efficient, but I rarely care that much,
>> because most lists are small. Why
Steve Jorgensen wrote:
> Steve Jorgensen wrote:
> > Andrew Barnert wrote:
> > On May 9, 2020, at 17:35, Steve Jorgensen
> > ste...@stevej.name wrote:
> > I believe the Python standard library should
> > include
> > a means of sanitizing a filesystem entry, and this should not be something
> > req
Steve Jorgensen wrote:
> Andrew Barnert wrote:
> > On May 9, 2020, at 17:35, Steve Jorgensen
> > ste...@stevej.name wrote:
> > I believe the Python standard library should
> > include
> > a means of sanitizing a filesystem entry, and this should not be something
> > requiring a
> > 3rd
> > party
Andrew Barnert wrote:
> On May 9, 2020, at 17:35, Steve Jorgensen ste...@stevej.name wrote:
> > I believe the Python standard library should include
> > a means of sanitizing a filesystem entry, and this should not be something
> > requiring a 3rd
> > party package.
> > One of reasons I think thi
Responding to points individually to avoid confusing multi-topic threads. :)
Andrew Barnert wrote:
< snip >
> > When permissive is False,
> > characters that are generally unsafe are rejected. When permissive is
> > True, only path separator characters are rejected. Generally unsafe
> > character
On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 07:09:15AM +, Steve Barnes wrote about
Unicode dashes and quotes sneaking into code:
> What can be done?
>
> 1. Persuade Microsoft, and others, to stop being so helpful by
> default - good luck with that!
No, I think that in the broader picture, they are doing
Hi All,
Apologies if this has already been discussed to death.
Python 3 allows Unicode characters in strings and identifiers but the actual
quotation marks are only accepted in plain ASCII, i.e. the following all
successfully initialise strings:
```
S1 = "Double Quoted" # Opened and closed wit
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