quanta wrote:
> Sorry I have one more question, I am using The Maildir format to make it
> works with qmail-pop3d
> but I can't find any client like pine or elm to work with it, do I have to
pop3 clients don't have to know anything about maildir. I use netscape pop3
client and it just work fine.
"quanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Sorry I have one more question, I am using The Maildir format to make it
>works with qmail-pop3d
>but I can't find any client like pine or elm to work with it, do I have to
>patch something??
Accessed via POP, the native mailbox format is tranparent and
irrel
> >Sorry I have one more question, I am using The Maildir format to make it
> >works with qmail-pop3d
> >but I can't find any client like pine or elm to work with it, do I have
to
> >patch something??
>
> Try mutt. http://www.mutt.org.
Any pop3 mail client should work fine with the qmail-pop3
At 9:41 PM +0200 4/17/00, quanta wrote:
>Sorry I have one more question, I am using The Maildir format to make it
>works with qmail-pop3d
>but I can't find any client like pine or elm to work with it, do I have to
>patch something??
Try mutt. http://www.mutt.org.
>
>THX
>Mikael
--
--
Paul J.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2000 at 03:18:15PM -0400, Walt Mankowski wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2000 at 08:40:54AM -0700, Duncan Watson wrote:
>>
>> Very close to my intent. Find, regexps and python as glue. I may use
>> tkinter as a front end for prettiness.
>
> Are you aware that mutt already has the abil
On Tue, Apr 11, 2000 at 08:40:54AM -0700, Duncan Watson wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2000 at 08:11:23AM -0600, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> > Duncan Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > I just started using maildirs with mutt and procmail. I am planning on
> > > writing a utility to allow me to
On Tue, Apr 11, 2000 at 08:40:54AM -0700, Duncan Watson wrote:
[snip]
> Excellent. The astute may note that I currently don't use qmail on my office
> box but I really love Maildir.
One dutch ISP (cistron, the people who brought you Cistron radiusd) have
implemented their own Maildir MDA, spawne
On Tue, Apr 11, 2000 at 08:11:23AM -0600, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> Duncan Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I just started using maildirs with mutt and procmail. I am planning on
> > writing a utility to allow me to search all of my maildir folders for mail
> > matching certain regexps a
Duncan Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I just started using maildirs with mutt and procmail. I am planning on
> writing a utility to allow me to search all of my maildir folders for mail
> matching certain regexps and then linking them into a result folder also a
> maildir that I could the
Duncan Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I just started using maildirs with mutt and procmail. I am planning on
> writing a utility to allow me to search all of my maildir folders for mail
> matching certain regexps and then linking them into a result folder also a
> maildir that I could then
On 15 Jan 2000, Russ Allbery wrote:
RA>Russell Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
RA>
RA>> Because every such installation I've ever seen has used NFS. I'm not
RA>> talking about what's good, or what's right. I'm talking about what's
RA>> possible to do tomorrow. Yes, it might be that a specia
On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 11:42:56PM -0600, Bruce Guenter wrote:
> I have started up two lists, actually:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
These are, of course, ezmlm lists, so to subscribe, send a blank email
to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
respectively.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 03:31:57PM -0500, Greg Owen wrote:
> > Indeed. I should start up a list just to discuss this.
> If you start up such a list, let me know.
I have started up two lists, actually:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The first is to discuss an authentic
There is a new GNU project starting up called GLUE that seems to be concerned
with at least some of the same things you are (plus other stuff). You
can start looking at their goals at:
http://www.gnu.org/software/glue/glue.html
On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 12:46:16PM -0600,
Bruce Guenter <[EMAIL PRO
A few people have responded to my earlier query/rant/whatever about
writing high-quality software. A couple of these have asked me to
keep them notified about what I learn, if possible. Another identified
the starting-point of a resource.
I put up a web page on my site on this topic, which I in
On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 10:53:09AM -0600, Bruce Guenter wrote:
>
> Do you have an URL for a specification of ACAP or IMSP? I've never
> heard of them, but what you've described is a good idea.
Actually, the ACAP chapter of O'Reillys "Programming Internet Email" (ISBN
1-56592-479-7) is free!
R
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 01:22:11PM -0500, Greg Owen wrote:
> > Warning: opinions, little to do with qmail or maildir.
>
> Indeed. I should start up a list just to discuss this.
Bruce,
If you start up such a list, let me know.
You are asking good questions, quest
Bruce Guenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 03:26:49PM -, Anthony DeBoer wrote:
>>> [ protocol wishlist ]
> >
> > That should include something that makes sense for a host that's behind a
> > firewall and/or NAT and/or dynamic-IP dialup to authenticate and download
> >
On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 12:36:05PM -0600, Bruce Guenter wrote:
> > A good calendaring system requires that users receive requests for
> > meetings and can answer them, and have trouble screwing them up (i.e.
> > putting the metainfo in the subject line is easy to screw up). Email is the
> > i
On Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 01:22:11PM -0500, Greg Owen wrote:
> Warning: opinions, little to do with qmail or maildir.
Indeed. I should start up a list just to discuss this.
> > As much as I would like scheduling, this is an "mailbox"
> > program, which handles email. I believe that proper
Warning: opinions, little to do with qmail or maildir.
Bruce Guenter wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 12:25:09PM -0500, Greg Owen wrote:
> > 1) Integrate support for some sort of calendaring. I've
> > run both IMAP and Exchange based environments, and for all
> > its faults, the integr
On Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 10:35:09AM -0600, Tim Tsai wrote:
> What do you guys do for backup's? Do you put two NIC cards in each
> server and maintain a separate network for that?
We actually use a couple Storagetek 9710 tape libraries. 10 DLT 7000 drives
and something like 800 slots for tapes.
On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 12:25:09PM -0500, Greg Owen wrote:
> 1) Integrate support for some sort of calendaring. I've run both IMAP and
> Exchange based environments, and for all its faults, the integrated
> calendaring that Exchange does is extremely useful. None of the web-based
> calendaring s
On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 03:26:49PM -, Anthony DeBoer wrote:
> Bruce Guenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > The needs I am aware of include:
> > - hierarchical multiple mailbox support
>
> That should include something that makes sense for a host that's behind a
> firewall and/or NAT and/or d
On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 06:41:23PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Well the CDB (in my idea, at least) will be indexed to the unchanging part
> of a message filename (without new/ or cur/ in front), and contain the headers
> that mutt normally reads from the file itself while opening. [Yes, I
On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 10:15:31AM -0600, Jeff Hayward wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Russell Nelson wrote:
>
> One way to do that would be for Dan to change the
> Maildir specification so that a Maildir may have multiple "cur"
> directories. Then, keep a CDB containing a subset of the mess
On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 10:32:23AM -0600, Jeff Hayward wrote:
> On 14 Jan 2000, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
> I'm responding to provide a counterpoint to Russ's views. I certainly
> don't plan on changing his mind by my argument. It is abundantly clear
> that "there's more that one way to do it (well
On 14 Jan 2000, Russ Allbery wrote:
I'm responding to provide a counterpoint to Russ's views. I certainly
don't plan on changing his mind by my argument. It is abundantly clear
that "there's more that one way to do it (well)" to borrow a phrase.
My experience is quite the contrary, namely th
Jeff Hayward writes:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Russell Nelson wrote:
>
> One way to do that would be for Dan to change the
> Maildir specification so that a Maildir may have multiple "cur"
> directories. Then, keep a CDB containing a subset of the message
> headers.
>
> Why multipl
On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Russell Nelson wrote:
One way to do that would be for Dan to change the
Maildir specification so that a Maildir may have multiple "cur"
directories. Then, keep a CDB containing a subset of the message
headers.
Why multiple "cur" directories? I'm guessing that you'r
Bruce Guenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The needs I am aware of include:
> - the basics of POP3 plus...
>[snip]
> - hierarchical multiple mailbox support
That should include something that makes sense for a host that's behind a
firewall and/or NAT and/or dynamic-IP dialup to authenticate
On Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 03:07:09PM -0500, Russell Nelson wrote:
> Right, and any scalable email system is going to use NFS. Therefore
No. We scale with pop-proxies, and do without NFS at all. We rely heavily on
LDAP to achieve this.
Regards,
bert.
--
+---+ | h
On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 12:11:16AM -0600, Bruce Guenter wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 12:53:37AM -0500, Russell Nelson wrote:
> > > Um, am I missing something? I thought the whole point of the "info"
> > > portion of the filename of the message in the maildir?
> > Right, and do you want the
On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 12:53:37AM -0500, Russell Nelson wrote:
> > Um, am I missing something? I thought the whole point of the "info"
> > portion of the filename of the message in the maildir?
> Right, and do you want the filename changing all the time? Instead of
> a simple "open()", you h
Bruce Guenter writes:
> On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 10:57:00PM -0500, Russell Nelson wrote:
> > I wonder if that couldn't be handled by the Maildir code writing
> > Status: XXX as the very first line in each message?
>
> Um, am I missing something? I thought the whole point of the "info"
>
On Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 05:47:50PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > And even if you didn't mind doing that, then
> > > events of interest could be reported using a prompt which conveyed the
> > > same information as "You have a pending event". So you'd either be
> > > executing a command, or
On Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 02:09:00PM +0100, Claus Färber wrote:
> Bruce Guenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb/wrote:
> > First place to start is to figure out what is actually necessary. In a
> > lot of cases, POP3 with a few extensions should be perfectly adequate,
> > but it is necessary to know wh
Ruben van der Leij <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 10:35:09AM -0600, Tim Tsai wrote:
>> What do you guys do for backup's? Do you put two NIC cards in each
>> server and maintain a separate network for that?
We just back up over the same network as we do everything else, ea
We decided against NetApp for the same reasons, and went with Metastor. Performance
is great, easy to upgrade, and it fit our needs for a reasonable price vs using
seperate file stores for each mail server. I'm sure there are other brands out
there of similar price/performance (we spent maybe 15k
On Sat, 15 Jan 2000, Bruce Guenter wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 01:20:05AM -0500, Russell Nelson wrote:
> > What about asynchronous commands and
> > notifications? I'd nuke 'em, myself.
>
> Which of course begs the question about what kinds of events are really
> necessary for a mailbox a
> > What do you guys do for backup's? Do you put two NIC cards in each
> > server and maintain a separate network for that?
>
> Do you have *a lot* of pc-hardware around? What failed, last time? And
> before that?
No, that wasn't why I asked. The main reason for two NIC's is to keep
the ba
What do you guys do for backup's? Do you put two NIC cards in each
server and maintain a separate network for that?
Thanks, from a guy that's about to take that big plunge into a scalable
mail design.
Tim
On Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 02:56:59AM -0800, Tracy R Reed wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 15, 200
Bruce Guenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb/wrote:
> First place to start is to figure out what is actually necessary. In a
> lot of cases, POP3 with a few extensions should be perfectly adequate,
> but it is necessary to know what the needs actually are.
I don't think it's a good idea to overload
On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 09:41:48AM -0600, Tim Tsai wrote:
> Russ, what is your definition of a "large" installation? 10k, 100k, 1m
> users? Just exactly how many lighter-weight servers is practical to
> manage and upkeep before it's cheaper to buy NetApp's?
As someone who has purchased and ma
On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 10:26:22PM -0800, Peter C. Norton wrote:
> > Good thought, especially with the tunneling options, but unless things
> > have changed, SSH still requires shell access -- something that should
> > not be required for mailbox access.
>
> Not really. It only spawns a shell be
On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 10:26:22PM -0800, Peter C. Norton wrote:
> Not really. It only spawns a shell because sshd's usual procedure is to
> invoke /bin/login as it's last action (step 10 in the sshd(8) version 1 man
Sorry, I meant "emulate /bin/login" and asit's last step start a shell.
> pag
On Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 12:09:13AM -0600, Bruce Guenter wrote:
> Good thought, especially with the tunneling options, but unless things
> have changed, SSH still requires shell access -- something that should
> not be required for mailbox access.
Not really. It only spawns a shell because sshd'
Actually, using ssh would obviate the need for an ftp-like second connection
protocol-mess for async notification. I think you could just forward 2
connections over the already-established link. So all connections from a
particular client would be guranteed to land on the same server, despite an
On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 10:57:00PM -0500, Russell Nelson wrote:
> Bruce Guenter writes:
> > - message state storage (read, replied to, forwarded, flagged, etc.)
> > seperate from content delivery (a "Status:" header line)
>
> I wonder if that couldn't be handled by the Maildir code writing
>
On Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 10:57:00PM -0500, Russell Nelson wrote:
> I wonder if that couldn't be handled by the Maildir code writing
> Status: XXX as the very first line in each message? Then, you
> could change the status by opening the message file, read in the first
> N bytes, modify one o
Bruce Guenter writes:
> - message state storage (read, replied to, forwarded, flagged, etc.)
> seperate from content delivery (a "Status:" header line)
I wonder if that couldn't be handled by the Maildir code writing
Status: XXX as the very first line in each message? Then, you
could cha
On Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 09:36:03PM -0500, Sam wrote:
> caches the headers by itself. It seems that the original IMAP
> implementation by uwimap was so piss-poor performance-wise, that pretty
> much all IMAP clients either do some form of caching themselves, or are
> very carefull not to issue any
On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Russell Nelson wrote:
> Mikko Hänninen writes:
> > But, the commentary completely misses the good points and the purpose
> > of Maildirs: that they're ideal for incoming mail delivery, especially
> > when the folder is accesses over NFS (whether "access" delivery or
> > r
On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Russell Nelson wrote:
> =?iso-8859-2?Q?Ond=F8ej=20Sur=FD?= writes:
>
> > Could someone comment this?
>
> Yeah. Mark Crispin doesn't like Dan Bernstein; therefore anything Dan
> Bernstein does has technical problems which "don't scale" and are "a
> support nightmare." Mar
On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Ondøej Surý wrote:
> >From libc-client4.7 documentation:
> --strip--
> The Maildir format used by qmail has all of the performance
> disadvantages of mh noted above, with the additional problem that
> the
> files are renamed in order to change their status so you end up
Russ Allbery writes:
> Russell Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Right, and any scalable email system is going to use NFS.
>
> Why do you think that?
Because every such installation I've ever seen has used NFS. I'm not
talking about what's good, or what's right. I'm talking about
Russell Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Right, and any scalable email system is going to use NFS.
Why do you think that?
My experience is quite the contrary, namely that delivering to *any*
shared file system, whether it be NFS or AFS, is fundamentally less
reliable and harder to maintain
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Note that I don't really see the benefit in multiple cur-directories, apart
> from the performance advantages on sub-optimal [most] filesystems, for which
> same reason the queue directories are split up.
Right, me neither.
> | 'C makes it easy to shoot yourself i
Charles Cazabon writes:
> Russell Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Right, and any scalable email system is going to use NFS. Therefore
> > the question in my mind is not "What should be used for large folders
> > instead of Maildirs?" but instead "What must be done to make Maildirs
On Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 02:21:47PM -0600, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> Russell Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Right, and any scalable email system is going to use NFS. Therefore
> > the question in my mind is not "What should be used for large folders
> > instead of Maildirs?" but instead
Russell Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Right, and any scalable email system is going to use NFS. Therefore
> the question in my mind is not "What should be used for large folders
> instead of Maildirs?" but instead "What must be done to make Maildirs
> more efficient"? One way to do that
Mikko Hänninen writes:
> But, the commentary completely misses the good points and the purpose
> of Maildirs: that they're ideal for incoming mail delivery, especially
> when the folder is accesses over NFS (whether "access" delivery or
> reading or both). Maildir format is not something you
=?iso-8859-2?Q?Ond=F8ej=20Sur=FD?= writes:
> Could someone comment this?
Yeah. Mark Crispin doesn't like Dan Bernstein; therefore anything Dan
Bernstein does has technical problems which "don't scale" and are "a
support nightmare." Mark doesn't want to hear what I have to say
about IMAP (whic
I would be interested in knowing more about both Dan Bernstein's
and Mark Crispin's views about how software should be engineered,
e.g. pointers to web pages with their views boiled down to the
salient points. (Someday I intend to investigate at least Dan's
views for myself via web/USENET searche
On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, Kristina wrote:
> [...]
> Do I need a .qmail file to configure the maildir format. If so, how do I
> configure it. Please let me know.
Yes. Just tell qmail where to put incoming mail's (echo "./Maildir/" >
.qmail).
Anyway, to create Maildir/new, Maildir/cur, Maildir/tmp fil
Ondrej Surý <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on Fri, 14 Jan 2000:
> From libc-client4.7 documentation:
> --strip--
> The Maildir format used by qmail has all of the performance
> disadvantages of mh noted above, with the additional problem
> Could someone comment this?
Well, I can say something
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>From libc-client4.7 documentation:
>--strip--
> The Maildir format used by qmail has all of the performance
>disadvantages of mh noted above, with the additional problem that the
>files are renamed in order to change their status so you end up
>having to rescan the
Kristina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Do I need a .qmail file to configure the maildir format.
No. If you make "./Maildir/" the default delivery instruction, then
it will work even if nobody has a .qmail file.
BUT! qmail can _deliver to_ a maildir. It can't _create_ a maildir.
For existing us
Subba Rao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on Sat, 27 Nov 1999:
> I have opted to use Maildir format over mbox. The MDA in use is maildrop.
> Except for the inbox/spool directory, all the folders that maildrop uses
> are mbox format. The folders maildrop uses are in ~/Mail while the incoming
> spool is ~
Alex Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Is he seriously contending that with such a rapid flurry of mail coming
> through the pipe, that it would be safer to append mails to open files,
> possibly concurrently?
As near as I can tell, he's arguing for some other, different type of file
format t
On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, David Harris wrote:
> I've been talking to Mark Crispin about the Maildir format and he as brought
> up what really seems to be a valid concern to me.
>
> He says that Maildir is unsuitable for large servers because the filesytems
> serialize creation and deletion of files in
to it, that that is when
problems could occur.
Isn't that the kind of thing that makes Maildirs so great?
> -Original Message-
> From: Adam D. McKenna [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 9:45 AM
> To: Dave Sill
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject:
Well, from what I've gleaned by reading this list, Crispin has no interest in
supporting maildirs because he has a grudge against either qmail or djb.
Besides that, it's obvious that he's not interested in improving his product.
He doesn't even use autoconf for god's sake.. When I compile PINE o
"David Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>He says that Maildir is unsuitable for large servers because the
>filesytems serialize creation and deletion of files in a single file
>system, because the inode and free block tables have to be
>manipulated.
Yes, that's what makes maildirs reliable. T
"David Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
| He says that Maildir is unsuitable for large servers because the filesytems
| serialize creation and deletion of files in a single file system, because
| the inode and free block tables have to be manipulated. Thus the file
| creation part of Maildir dr
Adam D. McKenna wrote:
> I'm not arguing with you, but what's the difference in disk access between
> appending to an existing file (mbox) and creating a new file (maildir)?
>
> It seems like appending an existing file would take at least one extra
stat(),
> and the inode and free block tables wo
From: David Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
: I've been talking to Mark Crispin about the Maildir format and he as brought
: up what really seems to be a valid concern to me.
:
: He says that Maildir is unsuitable for large servers because the filesytems
: serialize creation and deletion of files in a
Warning
Could not process message with given Content-Type:
multipart/signed; boundary=+jhVVhN62yS6hEJ8; micalg=pgp-md5;protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Ãéþñãïò ÊïõëïãéÜííçò writes:
> Ok then the question that comes to me is whether qmail-pop3d can support
> Mailbox format and how...
No, it cannot. It takes good advantage of the Maildir format, and
would take a considerable amount of work to port it to Mailbox format.
--
-russ nelson <[EMAIL
Ok then the question that comes to me is whether qmail-pop3d can support
Mailbox format and how...
Regards,
George.
-Original Message-
From: Mark Delany [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 3:28 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'qmail mailing list'
Subject: R
At 02:11 PM 2/5/99 -, Russell Nelson wrote:
>Mark Delany writes:
> > At 03:26 PM 2/5/99 +0200, Ãéþñãïò ÊïõëïãéÜííçò3O3t5/I= wrote:
> > >Hi Gurus,
> > >
> > > Is there any IMAP server that supports Maildir format?
> >
> > Russ Nelson has alluded to such a beast on occassions. But it's a b
Mark Delany writes:
> At 03:26 PM 2/5/99 +0200, Ãéþñãïò ÊïõëïãéÜííçò3O3t5/I= wrote:
> >Hi Gurus,
> >
> >Is there any IMAP server that supports Maildir format?
>
> Russ Nelson has alluded to such a beast on occassions. But it's a big job
> isn't it Russ?
Building one from scratch,
At 03:26 PM 2/5/99 +0200, Ãéþñãïò ÊïõëïãéÜííçò3O3t5/I= wrote:
>Hi Gurus,
>
> Is there any IMAP server that supports Maildir format?
Nup.
Russ Nelson has alluded to such a beast on occassions. But it's a big job
isn't it Russ?
Regards.
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