Re: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement

2012-09-28 Thread Bruce Verhei
; http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part

Re: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement

2012-09-28 Thread MPhelps
It will be a retail furniture store, which to me is undeniably ordinary hazard. I believe he simply read far enough into the chapter to find an apparent error and never read the rest paragraph. Happy Weekend All Mark at Aero - Original Message - From: Roland Huggins [mailto:rhugg...@f

Re: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement

2012-09-28 Thread Roland Huggins
as Todd already said, it is explicitly allowed by 8.3.2.3 unless the AHJ is trying to call it a light hazard occupancy. Roland On Sep 28, 2012, at 10:00 AM, > wrote: I have a Friday question for the forum, and maybe Roland is able to respond with some "intent" perspective. In a 27' high i

RE: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement

2012-09-28 Thread Todd Williams
Methinks he is picking nits. On what basis is he requiring intermediate temperature heads? Does he have evidence that the maximum ceiling temperature exceeds 100 degF? How does he know it is 150 degF and not 225 degF? (Table 6.2.5.1) It sounds to me like he is making something up just because h

Re: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement

2012-09-28 Thread MPhelps
He is working from 2002. - Original Message - From: Steve Leyton [mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com] Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:47 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement Snake oil sales talk at its finest. I believe that par

Re: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement

2012-09-28 Thread Ron Greenman
ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120928/b1150e2c/attachment.html> ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum

RE: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement

2012-09-28 Thread Steve Leyton
Snake oil sales talk at its finest. I believe that part of the reasoning behind section 8.3.23 (new to the 2010 ed., BTW) was for applications such as this. I agree with you that replacement of the sprinklers is not required. Is the AHJ working from the 2010 edition or an earlier one - could th

RE: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement

2012-09-28 Thread Morey, Mike
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RE: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement

2012-09-28 Thread MPhelps
Let's just say that I value the very broad base of experience you have amassed in working in the California market. :-) Mark at Aero -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Frida

RE: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement

2012-09-28 Thread Steve Leyton
Just to clarify - are you lumping me into the set of "professionals", or hoping that I know of one who can speak to this issue? SL -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of mphe...@aerofire.com Sent

RE: Sprinkler head Temperature requirement

2012-09-28 Thread MPhelps
I have a Friday question for the forum, and maybe Roland is able to respond with some "intent" perspective. In a 27' high industrial spec building, we installed sprinkler heads rated at 286 degree. This was permitted, installed, inspected and approved. The owner now has a tenant lease which wil

RE: ESFR w/skylights

2012-09-28 Thread Bobby Gillett
Ok I read FM Data Sheet 2-0. It does not mention skylights, however it does mention installation in smoke and heat vents which are constructed the same way. Their direction says to use the same k-factor and pipe sizing, install per their recommendations (don’t need to type all of that) and do not n

RE: ESFR w/skylights

2012-09-28 Thread Cahill, Christopher
My vote is ESFR in the skylight. Reason being if that is the first head to operate why would we be accepting a lesser design over that 40 sq.ft. It's suppression mode relying on putting out the fire by putting the wet stuff on the red stuff not control mode where surround and drown is acceptab

RE: ESFR w/skylights

2012-09-28 Thread Matthew J. Willis
If it is listed... then no problem right? As far as the ESFR spacing, would you even be able to count the Skylight ESFR as part of the array? It will be obstructed if the light is 18" deep right? It seems you would just have one more in the calcs. But I am operating under the idea of getting the pr

RE: ESFR w/skylights

2012-09-28 Thread Bobby Gillett
Yeah, I believe so- that’s why I threw it out there. It is not friendly to pipe up in and put the pendent ESFR up in there and then there is the question of is it the intent to put one in there as part of the regular spacing, if not then your ESFRs are not spaced correctly - An upright ESFR would b

RE: ESFR w/skylights

2012-09-28 Thread Matthew J. Willis
Ok CMDA, not SSU. Is it Listed for your storage? If you push the heat away, would this not necessarily cause gapping with the ESFR's, or at least a delay? R/ Matt -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf

RE: ESFR w/skylights

2012-09-28 Thread Bobby Gillett
My thought (my thoughts are not always right ) - It would have to be QR due to that is what is in the system. And you aren’t protecting storage or floor space, but the sprinkler is there to keep heat from gathering and if it does it can push that heat back down. If it is ESFR would that not mess up

RE: ESFR w/skylights

2012-09-28 Thread Matthew J. Willis
I would think the ESFR Bobby. I think this was required on one I did years ago by the major Insurance people, but I have slept 1.25 times since then. It is the flow you are after with storage yes? Also, is there a QR SSU/P listed for storage? Matt -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-b