Re: 13D UG flush

I don't have a code for you but I would let the plumber and the GC know about the concerns and why a flush is necessary then let them know you won't be connecting the fire sprinkler system until they've flushed the underground due to liability. Then let them work it out on their own. Dig in, then h

Re: Purpose of Subdividing Dry Systems?

Don't be shy, anyone? Virus-free. www.avast.com <#

Purpose of Subdividing Dry Systems?

Hello All, Is the purpose of subdividing a dry system per NFPA 13, 7.3.9 - 7.2.3.9.2 (2013 ed) in order to control system size? Let's say you have a system that is 1000 gallons and I don't want to be subject to the water delivery time requirement can I divide the system right down the middle with a

Re: Gridded dry system

., ET, CWBSP, PMSFPE >> >> Coordinator, Engineering and Technical Services >> >> American Fire Sprinkler Association >> >> kh...@firesprinkler.org >> >> 214-349-5971 >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 12:47 PM J H via Sprinklerforum < >> spr

Re: Gridded dry system

rvices, and this > opinion should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as such. > > > Kevin Hall, M.Eng., P.E., ET, CWBSP, PMSFPE > > Coordinator, Engineering and Technical Services > > American Fire Sprinkler Association > > kh...@firesprinkler.org > > 214-3

Re: Gridded dry system

design or consulting engineering services, and this >> opinion should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as such. >> >> >> Kevin Hall, M.Eng., P.E., ET, CWBSP, PMSFPE >> >> Coordinator, Engineering and Technical Services >> >> America

Re: Gridded dry system

g services, and this > opinion should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as such. > > > Kevin Hall, M.Eng., P.E., ET, CWBSP, PMSFPE > > Coordinator, Engineering and Technical Services > > American Fire Sprinkler Association > > kh...@firesprinkler.o

Re: Gridded dry system

I have a problem with the simplified definition floated out here that a grid system is one that feeds a sprinkler from two directions because of the illustration of a looped system in the annex of '13 which shows sprinklers attached to the end portion of the loop resulting in those sprinklers recei

Re: Attic protection over a storage occupancy

A-okay - Absolutely two different design criteria: attic above is light hazard and your system below is group 'a' plastics storage commodity. I would do it the same way. There's no need to design the attic to the lower area storage density in your case because they're not storing group 'a' plastics

Re: Flexible hose head connectors on a pipe schedule system

I'll be devil's advocate. Pipe scheduled systems don't have limits on drop lengths and I've seen a few scheduled warehouse systems with 30 to 40 ft. roof decks with sections of office spacing below at 10 ft. with pendents feeding them. So if you can do it per the pipe scheduled method you should be

Sprinklers in Separate Coolers included in calcs?

Hey Folks, When dealing with coolers in restaurant kitchen areas do you guys include the sprinkler in the cooler in the calculations? I usually do but I'm second guessing myself since the cooler does not go up to the ceiling but is it's own compartment several feet below ceiling and has overhead pr

Re: "Calculating" a Pipe Scheduled system for Backflow Retro

Yeah, I've done it before but wanted to see if I had been doing it correctly. I don't like to hydraulically calculate a pipe scheduled system as I've often seen the calcs bust causing even more headache for everyone when it's not necessary if the pipe scheduled 'hand calc' method works - not to men

Re: "Calculating" a Pipe Scheduled system for Backflow Retro

Any takers? Does anyone retrofit backflows onto pipe scheduled systems? On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 2:43 PM J H wrote: > Hello All, > We're retrofitting a double check into an existing pipe scheduled system. > In looking at NFPA 13 (2019) edition 19.3.2.1 in order to do this we just > need a hydrant

"Calculating" a Pipe Scheduled system for Backflow Retro

Hello All, We're retrofitting a double check into an existing pipe scheduled system. In looking at NFPA 13 (2019) edition 19.3.2.1 in order to do this we just need a hydrant flow test and then subtract the friction losses of the double check and the friction loss due to elevation of the highest spr

Re: CPVC Drops in Seismic Areas

Sorry typed that out wrong " Drops and armovers shall NOT require restraint." Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: CPVC Drops in Seismic Areas

I do a fair amount of work in seismic areas and drops were never an issue. 9.3.6.7 in the 2013 edition seems to corroborate that. "Drops and armovers shall require restraint". We do include them in the ZOI calculations though.

Re: When is a Remote FDC required

A lot of times the civil engineer already has that figured out and if he shows it on the utility plan we go w/ his location and mirror the information on our site plan. Viru

13R Balcony Protection - Any Depth Requirements?

I notice that 13R 6.6.5.1 (2013 ed) requirement for sprinkler coverage for exterior balconies does not have a depth requirement unlike the 4ft rule found in 13. I have some apartments I'm bidding with a balcony at the upper level and the overhang is 3 ft.over the balcony. I'm going to put sprinkler

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Multiple System Calculation

d destroy the > original e-mail transmission as well as its attachments without reading or > saving it in any manner. Thank you. > > > On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 1:35 PM J H via Sprinklerforum < > sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: > > > I can understand both

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Multiple System Calculation

I can understand both perspectives and I would do it your way if I were in your shoes, however the engineer does have a valid point per the FAQ in the handbook in section 11.2.3.4.1(1) in the 2013 edition which states: FAQ What is the assigned operating area for subsystems that are smaller than th

Re: Tyco LFP - antifreeze

So wait, you have to calc as if it's a dry system per the manufacturer PLUS if you're over 40 gallons you have to calculate Darcy Weisbach? So a Dry-Darcy-Weisbach calc? Man, o man! Darcy Weisbach seems counter intuitive to me... the more demanding calculation requires larger pipe sizing which in t

Re: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

. > > Riser Nipples, the piece between a Cross Main and Branchline, 3.5.9, are > excluded. > > 3.5.10 is for "Risers". > > Given that the definition of a sprig, seems different than Riser, you may > have a point. > > But Riser is pretty broad. > > R/ >

CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

Hello, I thought that two hole straps used to secure CPVC acted as seismic bracing? I don't know where I've heard that and couldn't find anything in the standard. Is this correct? Also, if you have a 1"x8'-6" riser to a single horizontal sidewall sprinkler would that technically be an 'armover' an

Re: Domestic Demands 13R

If the AHJ digs in there is always the route of using automatic domestic shutoff valves.. Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Missing hydraulic data plates

A few notes (please feel free to agree or disagree): 1. No new flow test is required since you're merely calculating system demand to the BOR. 2. Some older pipe scheduled systems get flagged as deficient for missing the data plate. However, these systems were never hydraulically calculated in the

Re: Tablet or 4K monitor for viewing PDFs?

capable of handling panning and > zooming on large files without too much of a time delay. > > > > -SJ > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum *On > Behalf Of *J H via Sprinklerforum > *Sent:* Monday, June 22, 2020 1:17 PM > *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > *Cc

Tablet or 4K monitor for viewing PDFs?

We usually print hard copies of plans for larger projects for referencing when designing fire protection and are looking into electronic alternatives such as either higher resolution (4k) monitors or possibly a larger tablet dedicated for this use. Does anyone have any recommendations or want to sh

Re: I-B construction - ABS plumbing piping

You're going to have to get your ammo, your formal interpretations and get an audience with the little princess's boss - the king. Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: low flow residential head replacement

Also, just about every manufacturer I can think of is making a 3.0 k-factor sprinkler these days. Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: low flow residential head replacement

As Spencer pointed out '13 gives some guidance on head swapping (although your project is 13R). Normally a head swap job does not include bringing the whole system up to current codes so you don't need to worry about meeting the higher water densities or other updated code sections unless the AHJ i

Re: How are you guys handling calcs for 13R balconies?

icle/20200221/news/200229736/ >>> >>> Balcony fire, spk head. >>> >>> On Mar 6, 2020, at 13:11, Pete Schwab via Sprinklerforum < >>> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: >>> >>> We only calculate the single balcony in question. >>> &

Re: How are you guys handling calcs for 13R balconies?

erforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: >>> >>> We only calculate the single balcony in question. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Peter Schwab >>> >>> VP of Purchasing and Engineering technologies >>> >

Re: How are you guys handling calcs for 13R balconies?

761 > > > > *Mobile: (407) 468-8248* > > Direct: (407) 877-5570 > > Fax: (407) 656-8026 > > > > www.waynefire.com > > > > > > > > > > > > *I sleep in a sprinklered home, do you? * > > > > > > *From:* Sprin

How are you guys handling calcs for 13R balconies?

I was wondering how you guys are handling calculations for 13R balconies since the sprinklers aren't even required per 13R but are mandated by the IBC? Treating it as a compartment in this case means I have to do a 4 head calc when the rest of the project only requires 2 heads calculated due to com

Re: Shell Spaces and Bushed Outlets

That doesn't sound legit - I would keep the tee in the calculations. A bushing isn't really recognized as a fitting per table 23.4.3.1.1 - more like a transient fitting. On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 1:22 PM Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: > Esteemed m

Re: [EXTERNAL] 13D Residential Sprinkler use in open Bar joists?

at 1:39 PM Kyle.Montgomery wrote: > Viking makes an upright residential head, I think that could work for you. > > > > -Kyle M > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum [mailto: > sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] *On Behalf Of *J H via > Sprinklerforum >

13D Residential Sprinkler use in open Bar joists?

Does anyone know of a residential fire sprinkler that can be used in steel bar joists in a 13D install or will we have to go w/ quick response? This is a garage in a single family home and there will be no ceiling. JH ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Spri

Re: Sprinkler in garage closet understairs.

The answer is no, it's not required per 13D and you don't mix the standards unless specifically directed to. Not that it's a bad idea, it's just not required. On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 2:59 PM Thomas Reinhardt via Sprinklerforum < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: > Question for the gr

13R Fixture Units for Multiple Buildings

I've got a Bed & Breakfast (sprinklered per 13R) that is building a second detached suite which is to likewise be sprinklered to 13R. The existing yard line supplies both the domestic and fire demands for the existing building and the new building is planned to also tap into this yard line. Questi

Re: Backflow Prevention Valves

I think some people are over complicating the issue. You have a typical restaurant so all you would account for is the system demand at BOR. I really doubt you have hose valves inside. On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 5:54 PM Timothy Goins via Sprinklerforum < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: