So, for discussions sake take a look at the image link - what would you all call this system? I have my opinion but I don't see how it's much different than Ed's original drawing: https://ibb.co/xSW04dj
On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 9:46 AM J H <[email protected]> wrote: > So, for discussions sake take a look at the image link - what would you > all call this system? I have my opinion but I don't see how it's much > different than Ed's original drawing: > https://ibb.co/xSW04dj > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 9:40 AM Kevin Hall <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Yes, I see that now... looks like I have another PI to add to the NFPA 13 >> list. Look for that line of sprinklers to be removed in the 2025 edition >> haha. >> >> The above is my opinion and has not been processed as a formal >> interpretation in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee >> Projects. This is provided with the understanding that the AFSA assumes no >> liability for this opinion or actions taken on it and they are not to be >> considered the official position of the NFPA or its technical committees. >> AFSA cannot provide design or consulting engineering services, and this >> opinion should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as such. >> >> >> Kevin Hall, M.Eng., P.E., ET, CWBSP, PMSFPE >> >> Coordinator, Engineering and Technical Services >> >> American Fire Sprinkler Association >> >> [email protected] >> >> 214-349-5971 >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 12:19 PM J H via Sprinklerforum < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Kevin, >>> That's true for most of the sprinklers in the diagram but look at figure >>> A.3.3.206.6 (2019) - the farthest loop from the supply has sprinklers on >>> it >>> and it's connecting both loops - those sprinklers are receiving water >>> from >>> two mains. Likewise, per the definition of a main the only main in Ed's >>> example is the center line. Everything else are looped branchlines per >>> the >>> definitions. >>> >>> JH >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 9:09 AM Kevin Hall via Sprinklerforum < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> > The annex shows the branch lines fed by the cross main from two >>> directions, >>> > the sprinkler can still only receive water from one direction from the >>> > branch line... that is the distinction in the definition. >>> > >>> > The above is my opinion and has not been processed as a formal >>> > interpretation in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing >>> Committee >>> > Projects. This is provided with the understanding that the AFSA >>> assumes no >>> > liability for this opinion or actions taken on it and they are not to >>> be >>> > considered the official position of the NFPA or its technical >>> committees. >>> > AFSA cannot provide design or consulting engineering services, and this >>> > opinion should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as such. >>> > >>> > >>> > Kevin Hall, M.Eng., P.E., ET, CWBSP, PMSFPE >>> > >>> > Coordinator, Engineering and Technical Services >>> > >>> > American Fire Sprinkler Association >>> > >>> > [email protected] >>> > >>> > 214-349-5971 >>> > >>> > >>> > On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 12:05 PM J H via Sprinklerforum < >>> > [email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > > I have a problem with the simplified definition floated out here >>> that a >>> > > grid system is one that feeds a sprinkler from two directions >>> because of >>> > > the illustration of a looped system in the annex of '13 which shows >>> > > sprinklers attached to the end portion of the loop resulting in those >>> > > sprinklers receiving water from two directions. Technically the only >>> > cross >>> > > main is the center piping - everything else are looped branchlines. I >>> > would >>> > > be prepared for kickback from a knowledgeable AHJ. I would personally >>> > avoid >>> > > a design like this if at all possible to avoid the headache of >>> hashing it >>> > > out w/ an AHJ. But if it's the difference between a system like this >>> and >>> > a >>> > > fire pump it might be worth the fight. >>> > > >>> > > JH >>> > > >>> > > On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 6:04 AM Sean Conlin via Sprinklerforum < >>> > > [email protected]> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > > If you were to put caps on the left and right lines going north and >>> > > south, >>> > > > it resembles a compound gridded system and a sprinkler can receive >>> > water >>> > > > from both sides. >>> > > > >>> > > > The east and west lines are essentially the mains and so is the 4" >>> in >>> > the >>> > > > middle. >>> > > > >>> > > > Yes is has a looped piping arrangement and is symmetrical but it >>> is a >>> > > > gridded system by NFPA-13 definition. If you were to not tie the >>> lines >>> > > > together, it would be a loop. >>> > > > >>> > > > Regards, >>> > > > >>> > > > Sean W. Conlin >>> > > > E:[email protected] >>> > > > >>> > > > This message, including any attachments is considered confidential >>> and >>> > > for >>> > > > use only by the intended recipient(s). >>> > > > Any other distribution, copying or disclosure is strictly >>> prohibited. >>> > > > Please delete this communication and notify >>> > > > Demand Sprinkler Design Inc. if you are not the intended recipient >>> or >>> > > have >>> > > > received this message in error. Demand >>> > > > Sprinkler Design Inc. accepts no responsibility or liability for >>> any >>> > loss >>> > > > or damage from use, including damage from viruses. >>> > > > >>> > > > -----Original Message----- >>> > > > From: Ed Kramer <[email protected]> >>> > > > Sent: October 26, 2021 1:31 PM >>> > > > To: [email protected] >>> > > > Subject: Gridded dry system >>> > > > >>> > > > Is this sprinkler system a gridded system? I've avoided this >>> type of >>> > > > design in the past for dry systems because it 'kinda' a grid, but >>> not >>> > > > really. Now I'm questioning my questioning. What are your >>> thoughts? >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > Reference NFPA 13 (2019) sections 8.2.3.10 and 3.3.206.5. >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u2hw3cbvlga4fcq/Dry%20Attic%20System.pdf?dl=0 >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > Ed Kramer >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> > > > [email protected] >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> > > > >>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> > > [email protected] >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> > [email protected] >>> > >>> > >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
