Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

This is pretty much what I meant by "energy packaged for relatively non-local distribution and consumption by humans" which, it might be argued, is a market commodity, not a "right" (such as air and water) given by nature to any living being. Negative EROEI is definitely acceptable (specially to

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Hi Erik and all >Hi Keith, and everyone else, > > > Sorry Chandan, I'm baffled by the EROEI arithmetic. > >I just wanted to point out one thing about the arithmetic. No, I don't >really understand it either, but I didn't really try. One thing that >doesn't seem to have been said is that it might

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Hi Keith, and everyone else, > Sorry Chandan, I'm baffled by the EROEI arithmetic. > I just wanted to point out one thing about the arithmetic. No, I don't really understand it either, but I didn't really try. One thing that doesn't seem to have been said is that it might not matter as much, dep

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Hi Robert Thanks, nice read as usual. Only got time for this right now, more later I hope... > Why do these discussions so often boil down to money? Because it's jolly nice stuff and the root of all evil? :-) There was a pop singer in Hong Kong named Money Cheng. She said in an interview

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Hi Chandan Very nice, some real cost accounting. It seems the argument went from "We're running out of oil" to "We're running out of cheap oil", but if "cheap" has anything to do with real costs then there's no such thing as cheap oil, and there probably never was. So are the real costs coming

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Hello David >Keith, > >I'm confused as to the relevance of abiotic over biotic sources of oil. > >Given that Hubbert predicted the decline of US fields, I think his >approach may be relevant for any given field, whether abiotic or >biotic. Even if the source were to be abiotic, I think the probl

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

On Mar 17, 2008, at 2:12 PM, David Penfold wrote: > > Keith, > > I'm confused as to the relevance of abiotic over biotic sources of > oil. > > Given that Hubbert predicted the decline of US fields, I think his > approach may be relevant for any given field, whether abiotic or > biotic. Even if

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Keith, I'm confused as to the relevance of abiotic over biotic sources of oil. Given that Hubbert predicted the decline of US fields, I think his approach may be relevant for any given field, whether abiotic or biotic. Even if the source were to be abiotic, I think the problem is resource depl

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

I'm not taking up the 35-words challenge :-). Thanks. Perhaps the "energy" we are discussing here should be called "energy packaged for relatively non-local distribution and consumption by humans"? This is still vague, but might kind of capture the notion of what is it that we are trying to anal

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Keith Addison wrote: >Hi Robert > > > (abiotic oil) >Very good point. I agree, it should be both/and rather than >either/or, and probably is. > >But I think you put your scepticism in the wrong place. I think the >arguments over Thomas Gold's views of abiotic oil are a distraction, >abiotic

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Hi Zeke, Chandan and all Sorry I didn't give refs for the USDA and Minnesota stats on petroleum EROEI (energy returned on energy invested), they're from our website, and I'm embarrassed to admit that it would take me some time to track down the sources. I don't know how those life-cycle figure

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

For the example, an EROI of 0.88, you get 0.88 gallons of stuff (or BTU's or whatever) for each 1 gallon consumed... still worth it, since you stared with 1 gallon of sticky black crude oil, stuck way down in the ground... and ended up with 0.88 gallons of gasoline or such... so even though you end

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Is there something funny about Table 3 (in that pdf) or do I somehow miss the whole point? Why are they adding up all the fractions together?! I'd imagine one would add up Domestic Crude Production, Domestic Crude Transport, Crude Oil Refining, and Diesel Fuel Transport to get total cost of domes

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Hi Robert >I'm skeptical of abiotic oil only >because the whole debate seems to focus on "either / or" position. Oil >IS found in sedimentary basins associated with geological deposition, >just as the western geologists say, but if the Russians, who are also >smart people, have discovered an abio

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

will go towards promoting alternative energies and green jobs. Terry Dyck> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:23:38 -0700> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer> > Keith

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Keith Addison wrote: >Then there's this: > >http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0228/p04s01-wogi.html >North America Gets Its First Carbon Tax >The Canadian province of British Columbia hopes to change consumer >behavior - and raise revenue - by taxing virtually all fossil fuels, >including gasoline

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

imagine >they also quote from petroleum industry stats. Could there be 2 lots of >stats ? Just bits of paper anyway, aren't they? - or data rather, crunch as required. The oil industry doesn't have the kind of record that inspires any trust, not people you want to believe. (

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Hi Zeke > > . Do you think the only thing that will >> stop us using it is if it runs out? I think carbon costs will do >> that, whether it runs out or not. >> > >I would hope so... but even believing that carbon is a pollutant is not >really popular here yet... on one of my other email groups

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

> . Do you think the only thing that will > stop us using it is if it runs out? I think carbon costs will do > that, whether it runs out or not. > I would hope so... but even believing that carbon is a pollutant is not really popular here yet... on one of my other email groups for electric vehicl

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

es The idea that peak oil is a - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 6:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer > Hi Chip > > Interesting read, thanks - no need to

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Hi Chip Interesting read, thanks - no need to say "Sorry"! This is what J. F. Kenney has to say about Thomas Gold plagiarising the Russian work: http://www.gasresources.net/Plagiarism(Overview).htm The attempted plagiarism by T. Gold of the modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of deep, abiotic petr

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Hi Ken >On Mar 4, 2008, at 9:59 AM, Keith Addison wrote: > >> >> Most of the debunkings of Gold seem to come from Peak Oil true >> believers. Sorry, I'm not saying they're wrong, but a lot of them act >> like true believers, and it seems to be impossible to tell who's >> right. I'd prefer to k

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Keith Addison wrote: > Hi Chip > >> Keith Addison wrote: >> -SNIP >>> An entirely alternative theory of oil formation has existed since the >>> early 1950's in Russia, almost unknown to the West. It claims >>> conventional American biological origins theory is an unscientific >>> absurdity tha

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

They might know, but they out source the investigations, so it is possible that CIA and/or oil companies knows more than the actual owner countries. Hakan At 12:52 PM 3/5/2008, you wrote: >Or maybe they know it get's re-filled by mother earth and so don't want >to divulge the information. Not t

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Or maybe they know it get's re-filled by mother earth and so don't want to divulge the information. Not that I'm convinced yet that this is the process. Alan Petrillo wrote: > As Amory Lovins of the Rocky Mountain Institute > has pointed out, 94% of the world's petroleum

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Keith Addison wrote: [snip] > Others had estimated total reserves of about 900 billion barrels. > > Does anyone really know? > > Matt Simmons says they don't know, and that they tell lies. > > How would any of us find out for sure? We can't. So we're left to > take it on faith - true believers

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

On Mar 4, 2008, at 9:59 AM, Keith Addison wrote: > > Most of the debunkings of Gold seem to come from Peak Oil true > believers. Sorry, I'm not saying they're wrong, but a lot of them act > like true believers, and it seems to be impossible to tell who's > right. I'd prefer to keep faith for the

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Hi Chip >Keith Addison wrote: >-SNIP >> An entirely alternative theory of oil formation has existed since the >> early 1950's in Russia, almost unknown to the West. It claims >> conventional American biological origins theory is an unscientific >> absurdity that is un-provable. They point to t

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Keith Addison wrote: -SNIP > An entirely alternative theory of oil formation has existed since the > early 1950's in Russia, almost unknown to the West. It claims > conventional American biological origins theory is an unscientific > absurdity that is un-provable. They point to the fact that wes

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Hi Zeke, John, Hakan and all >It's all sort of moot. If we don't run out of oil, or somehow price it out >of our ability to use it at the current rate, then we'll kill ourselves with >the byproducts of burning it for our own sake, we better hope that we >DO run out. Quite right! In that se

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Well Zeke, Pure mathematics show that the oil what we know about, is going to run out quite fast and according to given estimates plus unknown assumptions of what we will find. This has not really changed much, what I have seen. In the assumptions are calculated that we will find more oil. It se

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

It's all sort of moot. If we don't run out of oil, or somehow price it out of our ability to use it at the current rate, then we'll kill ourselves with the byproducts of burning it for our own sake, we better hope that we DO run out. Z On Sun, Mar 2, 2008 at 4:03 PM, John Mullan <[EMAIL PRO

Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

Walking around through life with blinders on make stupid people happier. Keith Addison wrote: > We never really did get to the bottom of this, so to speak. - Keith > > - > > http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6880 > War and "Peak Oil" > > Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil bel

[Biofuel] Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer

We never really did get to the bottom of this, so to speak. - Keith - http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6880 War and "Peak Oil" Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer by F. William Engdahl Global Research, September 26, 2007 Confessions of an 'ex' Peak Oil believer