RE: t-and-f: What's the precedent for 'former?'

So, two wrongs make a right? Geoff From: Dan Kaplan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Dan Kaplan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: t-and-f@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: RE: t-and-f: What's the precedent for 'former?' Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 17:29:52 -0800 (PST) There's arguably

Re: t-and-f: What's the precedent for 'former?'

was ratified. What happened later does not change the fact that he formerly held the record. Unless you want to change the definition of the words themselves, Tim is a former record holder. Dan --- Geoff Pietsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > With respect, I disagree. To call him the

Re: t-and-f: What's the precedent for 'former?'

With respect, I disagree. To call him the "former" recordholder suggests that he held a valid record. He did not. So if the record is found to have been invalid, he cannot be a "former" recordholder. Geoff From: Dan Kaplan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Dan Kaplan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

RE: t-and-f: FL 3A State Meet Highlights

Ricky provides his usual great summary, but, as an oldtimer, I have to keep him honest: Ricky, don't forget to note when the old "yard" records are superior to the new metric performances. Kelly Parrish's 10:31.03 is indeed faster than Jenny Barringer's "record", but in 1981 Carla Dolder of G

RE: t-and-f: Henelgo analysis

The 13:52.93 split listed in the 10,000 is clearly a typo - presumably for 13:22. They did not run 2:38+-2:41+ for each of the first four kilos and then do a 3:13! followed by a world record 2:10.33! for their 5th and 6th kilos. Geoff From: "Ricky Quintana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To:

Re: t-and-f: Sandrock: 'Ritz' aims for Olympic 'A' standard

but you can be damned sure that it is HUGELY important to them. Geoff Pietsch BTW, Ed. I'm sorry, but I don't think it is important at all to be an Olympic tourist. The fact that we send so many Olympic tourists is part of the reason why we haven't had an Olympic medal

Re: t-and-f: NYTimes.com Article: Title IX Dissenters Criticize Proposed Changes

don't mean to be facetious about such a serious issue. I despise the discrimination - really the male chauvinism - that so long denied women opportunities (and still does in too many cases), but I also despise the whole idea of "proportionality" as it has too often been applied.

t-and-f: Alan Webb

l course record in Charlotte. And despite trying to stay with Ritz at Nationals he held off Ryan Hall who had had a super season. Geoff Pietsch . _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear

losers are clean. Francis may legally be entitled to coach them; they may legally be entitled to go to him for coaching, but HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THEIR DOING SO? I find your viewpoints distressing and incomprehensible. Geoff Pietsch Gainesville FL From: "Martin J. Dixon" <[E

Re: t-and-f: T&FN's centerfold

Never apologize, never explain, right? At least Boone is dead - I think. Maybe try Noriega. He's alive, pocked, and real slime. From: ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: ghill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: track list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: t-and-f: T&FN's centerfold Date: Wed, 08 Jan

t-and-f: T&FN's centerfold

N used to sell back in the '70s. I wish they were still around, but centerfold photos would be good substitutes. Easy for coaches to remove and post on bulletin boards. Geoff Pietsch Gainesville, FL P.S. Garry is free to use this as "letter" for T&FN is he wishes. I was dis

t-and-f: yelling at runners - can you top this response

e dead serious, and absolutely convincing when you make such a threat, especially if you're 5'11 and weigh 130. He was. They knew it. They left. Geoff Pietsch P.S. Have I missed it in all these e-mails or is it so obvious that everyone just takes it for granted? The best defense is t

t-and-f: Footlocker Regionals - gender numbers

ge of college scholarships given to male and female distance runners. Am I correct in assuming that girls not only receive more than the 34.53% of scholarships their participation would seem to warrant, they receive far more than the boys 65.47%? Geoff Pi

Re: t-and-f: Meanwhile back at the hall of fame....

g race I ever saw in person was the Trials 10K in '76 when Gary Bjorklund ran the last 3 miles with one bare foot and managed to outkick Rodgers for 3rd behind Shorter and Virgin and make the team. The Eugene crowd was incredibly loud. Geoff Pietsch

Re: t-and-f: Montgomery to Skip - from the sublime to the ridiculous

Montgomery's race was awesome - and I'm of the school of more-power-to-him for getting the max wind and the "perfect" start - but this is too much. 100 meters did all that damage? He needs two weeks to recover? Ridiculous! >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL

Re: t-and-f: searching for a book title

You're thinking of "The Games" by Hugh Atkinson, published in 1968 - and made into a movie. Don't recall if I saw it - probably did but one represses terrible memories. Starred Ryan O'Neal - who was about as believable as a marathoner as Michael Douglas was in a similar role. And Erich Segal

Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - another factor

Lots of interesting responses to this query. I, too ran on the roads, rather than the sidewalk, whenever practicable - and, yes, facing traffic. Softer, much easier to keep a rhythm, fewer intrusions of people, bikes, etc - all the rasons others have cited. But let me URGE those of you wh

Re: t-and-f: Why on the street? - car tromping: "Once a Runner"

John Parker told the story of Shorter and Bacheler in both non-fiction and fiction ("Once a Runner") versions, as I recall. No spikes though, just running shoes - and red necks. That really happened, to the best of my recollection, and all the other versions have followed from it. Geoff

Re: t-and-f: Run to the Top

Does anyone know how many races this girl's team - well, ex-team - is scheduled to run? And how many are tough competition? No one so far has noted the fact that if she is truly outstanding, then the ordinary high school dual meet is NOT a race for her, it's just a good short tempo run. He

Re: t-and-f: Title IX political action

I, too, use Working Assets for my long distance service and I generally love their social conscience. But in this case I am very disappointed. The problems with the application of Title IX have been well-documented on this list. In view of the lost opportunites for thousands of male athletes

Re: t-and-f: My take on the PRE TV

Larry, On Monday I posted some very favorable comments about your Pre coverage. I did ask for much more coverage of some of the hot field events, like the shot and the high jump. (And I'm an old distance runner and retired high school Cross Country coach.) PLEASE go easy on all the sprint c

Re: t-and-f: Pre T.V. coverage

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >My only complaint is that they didn't do close-up introductions of the >women's 100 hurdles, so no Jenny Adams intro. :-) >sideshow Speaking of Jenny Adams, to me one of the real highlights of the meet was seeing her immediate, spontan

t-and-f: Pre T.V. coverage

Am I alone in thinking that the coverage was much better than usual (i.e.not just sprints and the mile, for a change) and that it nevertheless was much too skimpy on the field events. And this comment is coming from a retired marathoner and high school cross country coach. I love seeing a

Re: t-and-f: Longetivity of state prep records

After checking the ihsa.org site, it's clear that Illinois has "solved" the issue of "combining" yard and metric records by retaining the yard performances only if they are absolutely (i.e.unconverted) faster than the times for the shorter metric races. Thus Virgin's 8:42.6 for 2 miles is

Re: t-and-f: Longetivity of state prep records

re constantly being set at the State Meet - and proclaimed far and wide - while the even faster kids of the past are forgotten. Geoff Pietsch >From: Janet Heinonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Janet Heinonen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: t

RE: t-and-f: No M40 record for Danny Martinez

A suggestion concerning Malmo - and other intentionally obnoxious/nasty posters: use block sender. I did for Malmo. It works! Delightful. Geoff >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roger Ruth) >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roger Ruth) >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: t-a

Re: t-and-f: Good show by Morroccan "B" team at XC Worlds - and Ritz

The first two Americans are also of African origin - as were the top 18 in the Men's long course and the top 19 in the Jr. Men's. Dathan R was the 2nd non-African origin runner - and he's only 19. >From: "Rich Harrington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "Rich Harrington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: t-and-f: University Vault Opportunity? - more on Oerter

Oerter attended Sewanhaka H.S. in Floral Park, just outside of Queens (the City) and was coached by Jim Fraley - who also coached some excellent middle distance runners like Artie Dunn and John and Bob Camien. Geoff P (who used to live on Long Island and ran against Fraley-coached teams)

Re: t-and-f: Title IX suit

Phil, Some questions/comments (below) on this part of your post: >As written, Title IX offered 3 methods for schools to show compliance: > >**First, they can show "proportionality" in the number of male and female >athletes. In other words, if the school had 55 percent female and 45 >perce

Re: t-and-f: T&F athletes in winter Olympics?

>regarding the IOC vote on whether to award a second >set of gold medals to the Canadian figuring skating pairs >entry, one of the votes recorded in favor of granting >the second golds, was from Ukrainian PV WR-holder Sergey Bubka. >But then, the only "no" vote came from the Chinese member. >The

RE: t-and-f: HS milers - fast boys get better?

Jeff Warrick ran 3:48.3 for 1500 in 1978 as a soph - I believe in an Invitational at F.S.U. in Tallahassee. Not a full mile, but clearly superior to Ryun's 4:07.8. He went to Bradenton Bayshore H.S., coached by Rollie Geiger, at the same time as Betty Jo Springs. Rumor was/is that "street"

Re: t-and-f: Famous People... In defense of Mathis

ay. If he'd jumped one inch higher and made T&FN's sacred 50, would that have made him national class? And, at the least, does he deserve ridicule ("even though he tried to build himself up as such") if he was as close as it appears he was. Geoff Pietsch >Fro

Re: t-and-f: Foot Locker Cross Country Finals on TV

Footlocker on Fox? Why??? First it was the Prefontaine meet, gone from one of the networks to Fox Sports. Now Footlocker leaves ESPN for Fox Sports. (Not regular Fox.) Am I unique on this list, or do other Track fans not get Fox Sports. I already fork out $38.37 a month for umpteen channe

RE: t-and-f: Hosting 2004 Olympic Marathon Trials

The weather was what it was, as Malmo says, and the distance was 26.2. Seems like Malmo and friends would like to see similar conditions for the 2004 Trials. That will show those whiners! I just wonder how many of the critics will be on the starting line. Geoff Pietsch >From: &q

RE: t-and-f: St. Louis temperatures - marathon trials

valid argument, the other side of the question is will we again fail to qualify three runners if the conditions are bad? Given the choices, I'd go for fast conditions - and three qualifiers - first and heat-qualified runners second. Geoff Pietsch >From: [EMAIL PROTECT

t-and-f: More on Footlocker South fast times from Rick Hill

Rick Hill (Great American) has a lengthy, analytical posting on dyestat.com concerning the McAlpine course. Check it out. One of his comments seems particularly relevant to explaining why times were so fast. He notes that a great deal of crushed stone has been added to the path - firming

Re: t-and-f: Footlocker South - why so fast?

> > >Personally I think the South should run on a more challenging course. > >Tom > > The McAlpine course is a great course except for being too narrow after the long opening straightaway. It's fast because it's on hardpacked dirt (when it's not muddy from rain). It's not as flat as some su

t-and-f: Footlocker South - why so fast?

guys really are all faster than Brian Jaeger and Teddy Mitchell and Sharif Karie as well as Ricky Brookshire, Eric Henry, the Jefferson and Hauser twins and Rueben Reina etc.. Geoff Pietsch Gainesville FL _ Get your FREE downloa

Re: t-and-f: conditioning (was: marathon qualifiers

Garry must watch a different NBA than the one I'm familiar with. Yes, those guys are definitely great athletes - Garry may be right that they are the greatest athletes on the planet - BUT they sure don't run that much. "Nonstop forever"??? Well... except for time-outs (is there anything lon

RE: Re: t-and-f: marathon qualifiers

(Schul and Mills), an Olympic bronze medalist (Young) and the world recordholder (yeah, unoffically, but still the fastest ever) in the marathon (Edelen). So much for the excuse of low birthrate eras. Geoff Pietsch >From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROT

RE: t-and-f: Barry's pedigree

s and the like. So the reality clearly is that competition today is far better than it was in "the good old days". (For the record, I'm an oldtimer - born in '37 - but facts are facts.) Geoff Pietsch Gainesville FL P.S. I, too wonder - and worry - about Bonds and andro. I s

Re: t-and-f: DELTA AIRLINES STINK

Two thoughts: (1) Is it really necessary to point out the obvious - the the previous poster did not mean to scream, literally, in anyone's ear. After all, no gate gent has the authority to refund fares. The cliche, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease," is what the poster had in mind. Get an exec

RE: t-and-f: Goodwill 5000 results...51-WHAT?

Why is this posted in reply to my posting? It has NOTHING to do with the point I raised. >From: "malmo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "malmo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "'Geoff Pietsch'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL P

Re: t-and-f: Goodwill 5000 results

pace and which can't. I agree with those who find tactical races much more interesting than rabbited races, but I also agree with those who find this sort of race ridiculous - for the reason I just stated. Geoff Pietsch >From: "John Bale" <

Re: t-and-f: What do Tiger Woods,

32 years of coaching high school kids ('67-'99) I don't think I had a single kid who had that sort of "natural" background. It may not have been a Kenyan-running-umpteen-miles-to-school-at-6,000', but it was pretty good. Geoff Pietsch >From: "Tom De

t-and-f: Morceli, El Guerrouj and pacing - best runner or kicker

r 3 1/2 laps, benefit from that draft, and outkick him in the stretch? Geoff Pietsch >From: Alan Shank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Alan Shank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: Track Posts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: t-and-f: Morceli, El Guerrouj and pacing in champio

Re: t-and-f: Re: Drug cheats aren't funny Garry.

re legitmate you would have hailed them like the 2nd Coming (or 1st Coming, depending on your beliefs - see, I can joke too). Geoff Pietsch >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: t-and-f: Re: Drug cheats aren't funny Gar

t-and-f: Drug cheats aren't funny Garry.

T&FN to never let go on this issue. Instead... we get Garry distorting what Paula Radcliffe said and making unfunny jokes at her expense. That is enormously depressing and disappointing. Geoff Pietsch Gainesville FL >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To:

Re: t-and-f: televising distance races - and car races?

likely audience? They can/will relate to the event on TV if it is well-covered. Geoff Pietsch >From: Ed & Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Ed & Dana Parrot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: t-and-f: televising distance races >D

t-and-f: Re: Pettigrew - splits?

ximum potential on the day). Geoff Pietsch >From: Byron Dyce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Byron Dyce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: t-and-f: USATF Release: Xerox Athletes of the Day >Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:35:13 -040

Re: t-and-f: Tonight's TV Coverage - 5K?? Steeple??

Track and Field - I just wish the distance guys weren't the only ones, literally, totally ignored so far. Geoff Pietsch >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: t-and-f: Tonight's TV Coverage >Date: Wed, 8 Aug 200

Re: t-and-f: Jacobs not a DNF

It could be argued, persuasively, I think, that Borza didn't kick, he just slowed down less than Bucher and everyone else. Sort of like Dave Wottle's dead-last-by-10-meters-at-200-to-first gold medal in '72. Geoff Pietsch >From

Re: t-and-f: Junior qualifying - from a high school coach

technique, but very, very few were good coaches of human beings. Geoff Pietsch >From: "Tom Derderian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "Tom Derderian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Tom Fleming" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECT

Re: t-and-f: Two Unrelated Questions

If he meant 4:10 iin high school - he was either grossly exaggerating (i.e.lying) or had a very poor memory. In the early '50s, when I was in high school, the national record was 4:19.5, as I recall, possibly by Max Truex, though it's really hard to remember. And Lemmon was in high school we

Re: t-and-f: Jack Lovelock

nearby. Anyone know if it's true? Geoff Pietsch >From: "John Bale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "John Bale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Track & Field List (E-mail 2)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >CC: "ISPHES - Sport His

Re: t-and-f: Gabe got his wish

I'm new to this list and have been a bit put off by the volume of postings to sift through. I'll stay with the list because of the postings by some really good people, BUT postings like this one are beyond absurd. Did Dave Cameron see the race on ESPN? (And if he didn't, why is he commenti