Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 at 16:52, Marc Gemis wrote: > I wonder how puzzled someone would be when they look at the original > question "how to map scrub in forests" and then, without going through > the whole thread, sees e.g the following mail in that thread: > Yes, way back up there ^ somewhere, so

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

I wonder how puzzled someone would be when they look at the original question "how to map scrub in forests" and then, without going through the whole thread, sees e.g the following mail in that thread: p.s. Joseph, please don't take this personally, I could have picked another mail, but yours was

[Tagging] Classification ( and symbols ) according to context ( relative importance, size, or other 'context' )

> .e all reference to number of inhabitants, & > base the decision on each mappers own recognition of how "important" > this is, so an isolated "village" with only a few hundred people > in it, but which is the main centre for this area will be a town, & > maybe even a city? ... No 'one set of

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

Chillagoe sounds like a village. It’s “only” 205 km (127 mi) W of the city of Cairns Does it have a secondary school, eg for 14 to 18 year olds? The only town-level service is the “hospital”, but does it really offer full services? > There are another half a dozen other small/er settlements with

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 at 12:09, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 24/01/19 12:50, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > It’s not possible to have “town” level services with less than 1000 > people. A town has a major market (retail area) serving the surrounding > area, as well as basic educational, cu

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

I’m in Papua, Indonesia. It’s quite different than Java or Bali. I’ve tagged some places as “towns” with only 4000 or 5000 inhabitants in the most sparsely populated parts around here, because they are the only settlement larger than a few hundred people in an area of 100 x 100 km or greater, and

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On 24/01/19 12:50, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: “an isolated "village" with only a few hundred people in it, but which is the main centre for this area will be a town, & maybe even a city?” It’s not possible to have “town” level services with less than 1000 people. A town has a major market (retail

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On 24/01/19 12:16, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 at 10:19, Martin Koppenhoefer mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>> wrote: > On 23. Jan 2019, at 22:35, Paul Allen mailto:pla16...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > According to the wiki, they're not > based on services either.

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

“an isolated "village" with only a few hundred people in it, but which is the main centre for this area will be a town, & maybe even a city?” It’s not possible to have “town” level services with less than 1000 people. A town has a major market (retail area) serving the surrounding area, as well as

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 at 10:19, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > On 23. Jan 2019, at 22:35, Paul Allen wrote: > > > > According to the wiki, they're not > > based on services either. > > > if the wiki says it explicitly like this we should fix it. > Just looking & it's a mixture, & also a bit of

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

> waterway=stream / river > railway=rail/narrow_gauge > highway=footway/pedestrian These are narrow linear features. It’s unreasonable and less helpful to map these as polygons when a simple linear way will do, so it’s good to have a way to show the difference. And there is also a big functional

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

sent from a phone > On 23. Jan 2019, at 22:35, Paul Allen wrote: > > According to the wiki, they're not > based on services either. if the wiki says it explicitly like this we should fix it. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@open

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

sent from a phone On 23. Jan 2019, at 21:44, Paul Allen wrote: >> place=island/islet what was a bad ideas and should not be repeated? >> >> place=hamlet, place=village, place=town, place=city. > > place=hamlet, place=village, place=town, place=city. waterway=stream / river railway=rail/na

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 at 08:33, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 24/01/19 09:19, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > Was mapping yesterday, put in an area, then when I started searching for > the description, iD brought up one of it's totally inappropriate > suggestions of clearcut: > https://wik

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 at 09:03, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > It would be usefull to know that a scrub area is so dense that it cannot > be walked through, > yet another scrub area is so sparse that a fire cannot propagate without > wind. > > I agree! Those definitions are a pretty good start. > > Pr

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

> It would be usefull to know that a scrub area is so dense that it cannot be walked through, yet another scrub area is so sparse that a fire cannot propagate without wind. I agree! Those definitions are a pretty good start. Probably it should relate to the density of the “canopy” of the main typ

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On 24/01/19 09:36, Paul Allen wrote: On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 22:17, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com > wrote: let me just repeat that ... "In OSM meaning of word used as key frequently has nearly no relation with meaning of tag." Unlike you, I do not read

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On 24/01/19 09:12, Kevin Kenny wrote: On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:54 PM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: The main OSM map renders grass, trees as solid colours, and residential areas too .. that is not good to me. Another example of the landuse/landcover confusion. We could make an argument

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 5:20 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: >> From that perspective, maple trees for syrup are a different problem. >> Possibly still nice >> to be able to map in some way, > > > Would / could they be covered under =orchard: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dor

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On 24/01/19 09:06, Kevin Kenny wrote: On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:36 PM Paul Allen wrote: Way back in the thread you wrote: OSM does not distinguish between the sizes of other thing other than by using the area or a closed way, or dimensional tags. That was Mateusz, not me! Hey .. it was me

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 22:17, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: let me just repeat that ... > > "In OSM meaning of word used as key frequently has nearly no relation with > meaning of tag." > Unlike you, I do not read that as an endorsement of the practise but as a lamentation. Consider if we

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On 24/01/19 09:19, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 at 07:46, Paul Allen > wrote: If we ever decide on an appropriate tagging scheme (landuse=logging or landuse=forestry + forestry=logging or whatever) and it gets rendered in some way th

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On 24/01/19 01:34, althio wrote: I might be missing something in these threads, but I would expect... for managed forest areas with unknown or unspecified use: landuse=forestry Why not natural=wood? That does not exclude "managed". Other things may also be "managed" - swamps, lakes, heath and

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 at 07:46, Paul Allen wrote: > If we ever decide on an appropriate tagging scheme (landuse=logging or > landuse=forestry > + forestry=logging or whatever) and it gets rendered in some way that is > distinct from > natural= wood (say an axe icon at the centre) then it will be us

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On 23/01/19 19:32, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: Jan 23, 2019, 9:10 AM by 61sundow...@gmail.com: How are areas zoned/set aside to produce timber from trees to be tagged? The trees are not always there - like crops on a farm field. Not using landuse=forest and not landuse=forestry. land

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:54 PM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > The main OSM map renders grass, trees as solid colours, and residential areas > too .. that is not good to me. Another example of the landuse/landcover confusion. We could make an argument that we need a landcover value for 'd

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 4:36 PM Paul Allen wrote: > Way back in the thread you wrote: >> >> >>> OSM does not distinguish between the sizes of other thing other than by >> >>> using the area or a closed way, or dimensional tags. That was Mateusz, not me! In any case, if the sole determinant for

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On 23/01/19 19:37, Marc Gemis wrote: I think in many cases place=location would be fine. Depends on what the name is seen as being. A forest or wood ("bos" (small) or "woud" (for bigger area) in Dutch) is typically an area with primarily trees, but also grass areas, pools, cuttings for paths

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 21:03, Kevin Kenny wrote: > I don't like landuse=logging as the top-level tag, partly because I > live in an area where forests are indeed managed for other uses (for > example, a 'sugar bush' managed to grow maple trees for syrup and > sugar). There are also a number of fo

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 21:05, Kevin Kenny wrote: Way back in the thread you wrote: > >>> OSM does not distinguish between the sizes of other thing other than > by using the area or a closed way, or dimensional tags. > To which I responded: >> place=islet vs place=island > And I later respond

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

>>> OSM does not distinguish between the sizes of other thing other than by >>> using the area or a closed way, or dimensional tags. >> >> >> place=islet vs place=island >> >> >> OSM does not distinguish between the sizes of other thing other than by >> using the area or a closed way, >> or dimen

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

I don't like landuse=logging as the top-level tag, partly because I live in an area where forests are indeed managed for other uses (for example, a 'sugar bush' managed to grow maple trees for syrup and sugar). There are also a number of forest parcels for which the signage makes the fact of manage

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 19:40, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > > > Jan 23, 2019, 1:11 PM by pla16...@gmail.com: > > On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 03:15, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > OSM does not distinguish between the sizes of other thing other than by > using the area or a closed way, or dimen

Re: [Tagging] The actual use of the level tag

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 10:18:51PM +0100, Tobias Zwick wrote: > On 22/01/2019 10:47, Lionel Giard wrote: > > So, i'm really in favor of the level=* for a "data user friendly" tag > > (that could correspond to local numbering, but not always) and a special > > tag for the local levels. At this momen

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

Jan 23, 2019, 1:11 PM by pla16...@gmail.com: > On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 03:15, Warin <> 61sundow...@gmail.com > > > wrote: > > >> OSM does not distinguish between the sizes of other thing other thanby >> using the area or a closed way, or dimensional tags. >>

Re: [Tagging] defining service on railway=tram

Jan 23, 2019, 3:53 PM by ja...@piorkowski.ca: > I sense a potential difficulty in defining these with iron-clad > accuracy. I'm not sure if that's needed, or is it acceptable to use a > "you'll know it when you see it" guideline? > I would give up attempts at precise definitions that always wor

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

Le 23.01.19 à 15:34, althio a écrit : > for managed forest areas with unknown or unspecified use: > landuse=forestry if you don't known the use, don't tag it no ? natural=wood/landcover=tress + managed=yes > for managed forest areas used primarily to grow wood produce=wood > forestry = logging

Re: [Tagging] defining service on railway=tram

On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 at 15:51, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > Evertthing is right and welcome! Cheers, thank you! >> 1. no service tag recommended for tracks that are regularly used in >> scheduled service, including loops and tail tracks > Also part of loops that are never used to carry passengers,

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On 23/01/2019 08:32, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: Jan 23, 2019, 9:10 AM by 61sundow...@gmail.com: How are areas zoned/set aside to produce timber from trees to be tagged? The trees are not always there - like crops on a farm field. Not using landuse=forest and not landuse=forestry. l

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

I might be missing something in these threads, but I would expect... for managed forest areas with unknown or unspecified use: landuse=forestry for managed forest areas used primarily to grow wood as timber/fuel/... or anything else: landuse=forestry + forestry = logging/timber/leisure/wildlife/*

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

To summarize the different points of the recent messages, there are 2 points concerning the tag changes described as an alternative to landuse=forest or natural=wood : 1) *Landcover :* - landcover=trees -> for areas with trees (instead of *landuse=forest* or *natural=wood*); - landcover=g

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 08:29, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > You may prefer to use landuse=logging or something that has a clear meaning > rather than landuse=forestry to tag areas used primarily to grow wood. > Given the wikipedia page you pointed to earlier in the thread, I agree that landuse=fo

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 03:15, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: OSM does not distinguish between the sizes of other thing other than by > using the area or a closed way, or dimensional tags. > place=islet vs place=island -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

I'm not talking about large areas like the Black Forest, but smaller forests such as Hondsbossen, https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=sint-kathelijne-waver#map=17/51.07041/4.54562 Typically there is a map of the area near the entrances where the exact area is shown. That map is similar to th

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

This idea of a wood or forest as a whole region, rather than the area that actually contains trees, may be culturally limited. I grew up in a town that was surrounded by national forest on all side, but the valley floor had some pasture and residential areas (300 people). Did we live in the forest

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

sent from a phone > On 23. Jan 2019, at 08:55, Marc Gemis wrote: > > And where do you put the name of the forest/wood ? On the MP or on the > outer way ? > I would think on the outer way, as the scrub is part of the named > area. But then I have an outer way with only a name tag. Is that > cor

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

I admit that I am putting it on MP, despite that it would be more correct to put in an outer way with some tagging indicating that it refers to this entire forest. Unfortunately, I have no good idea for tagging it properly. place=locality is rather for small places landuse=logging, landuse=fore

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

I think in many cases place=location would be fine. A forest or wood ("bos" (small) or "woud" (for bigger area) in Dutch) is typically an area with primarily trees, but also grass areas, pools, cuttings for paths and tracks, etc. So I was thinking that natural=wood (or landuse=forest) should only

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

Jan 23, 2019, 9:10 AM by 61sundow...@gmail.com: > How are areas zoned/set aside to produce timber from trees to betagged? > The trees are not always there - like crops on a farm field. > Not using landuse=forest and not landuse=forestry. landuse=growing_timber? landuse=logging? > so

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

Jan 23, 2019, 8:42 AM by 61sundow...@gmail.com: > On 23/01/19 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > >> >> >> >> Date: Jan 23, 2019, 8:31 AM >> From: >> 61sundow...@gmail.com >> To: >> matkoni...@tutanota.com >> Subject: Re: [Taggi

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Re: Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

On 23/01/19 18:42, Warin wrote: On 23/01/19 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: Date: Jan 23, 2019, 8:31 AM From: 61sundow...@gmail.com To: matkoni...@tutanota.com Subject: Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map? On 23/01/19 17:52, Mateusz Konieczny wr

Re: [Tagging] Forest parcel with other landcover (scrub, scree…): how to map?

Nice question Marc. What is this named area? Does it have some (taggable) function? Is it 'just' a location? place=location? On 23/01/19 18:55, Marc Gemis wrote: And where do you put the name of the forest/wood ? On the MP or on the outer way ? I would think on the outer way, as the scrub is