No tags on the shared nodes - just shared nodes.
What is IMHO a quite bad idea for two reasons:
– It’s unlikely that there will be software supporting features when there
is no tag.
– You would introduce a concurrent solution to a node
highway=traffic_signals. I do not think that it’s a good
Wow, you really went over it very carefully, thanks for all the input. I will
go over your list of issues again, but can you fix it to as how you would see
this tag used? I'm very interested to see how you would properly tag it, as you
know the parsing methods much better than I do ('cause I
So the nodes where the signals_area intersects the highways is where the
signals would normally be mapped for complex intersections?
Not exactly. It would be difficult to do so if you have really complex
junctions with really many individual traffic signals and you want to catch
all of them – a
It should be pretty trivial to have the area share nodes with the highway ways
where the signals would normally be mapped. Like drawing a square around a
tic-tac-toe board, but the shared nodes are only on one side at a time.
Also, I think It could also share nodes with the walkways and other
It should be pretty trivial to have the area share nodes with the highway
ways where the signals would normally be mapped.
Like drawing a square around a tic-tac-toe board, but the shared nodes
are only on one side at a time.
Here, I strongly disagree. The defination on the proposal page is
On Sep 22, 2014, at 6:48 AM, Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com wrote:
It should be pretty trivial to have the area share nodes with the highway
ways where the signals would normally be mapped.
Like drawing a square around a tic-tac-toe board, but the shared nodes are
only on one side at
Am 20.09.2014 02:03, schrieb johnw:
So the solution for a complex intersection is to have a signal_area area
with an outline that intersects with all the nodes where the signal
would affect the traffic? This would let the renderer use one icon, and
still have the ways marked in the proper spot
Okay, I’ve adapted the proposal wiki page.
We can propose to tag complex traffic signal areas _only_ using the area,
and not to tag the individual traffic signals. That makes it easier for
renderers to display only one icon per traffic signal area. However, I feel
we should not completly exclude
On Sep 21, 2014, at 5:13 AM, Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com wrote:
As described in the proposal, the area is simply drawn around the
approximative area that is affected by the traffic signals. It encloses
everything, but shares nodes only with the incoming and outgoing highways.
So the
On Sep 19, 2014, at 5:59 AM, Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com wrote:
* Here, I still do not see your point. What would you gain in doing so? You
have more tags, which means more work. But can you do anything that you can
not do with the current, yet existing tagging?
Differentiated tagging
Differentiated tagging is needed for differentiated rendering. junction
vs Signal. a single signal icon needs to be rendered in Japan for
intersections.
But that is yet working perfectly with the current tagging!
In Korea, we have yet thousands of nodes with junction=yes and name=*, and
Again, I do not see the point in introducing here a new tag. Using the
existing junction=yes in Korea and the existing highway=traffic_signals in
Japan – just not only on nodes but extending it also also on closed ways
(=areas) – should be fine.
Okay, here I have to correct myself. It may be
Some random thoughts about names for the area tags:
junction=yes on nodes
For areas:
– something that contains “junction” and “area”
– junction=area ?
highway=traffic_signals on nodes
For areas:
– something that contains “traffic signal system” (also “system”!) and also
“area”
– maybe not
After thinking more about the tag name question: It may be useful to use
for the complex situation at least the same key as for their conterpart in
simple situations. This is intuitive (usability), and at the same time the
tags for the simple and for the complex situation are mutually exclusive,
I don't know much about how the rendering system parses the tags. I thought t
would be non-trivial for it to work out how to display signal icons without a
new tag, so I thought a new tag might be necessary, and gave my suggestion.
I'm aware the current system is in use a lot for simple 1
On Sep 20, 2014, at 6:37 AM, Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com wrote:
After thinking more about the tag name question: It may be useful to use for
the complex situation at least the same key as for their conterpart in simple
situations. This is intuitive (usability), and at the same time the
for complex junctions
or traffic signals that are named
I don't know much about how the rendering system parses the tags. I thought t
would be non-trivial for it to work out how to display signal icons without a
new tag, so I thought a new tag might be necessary, and gave my suggestion.
I'm aware
Sep 2014 07:07:56 +0900
To: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tagging for complex junctions
or traffic signals that are named
I don't know much about how the rendering system parses the tags. I thought t
would be non-trivial for it to work out how
So far, highway=traffic_signal is only defined for nodes and there are
only few ways and fewer relations.
Correct.
Also in favour of separation I would prefer to use junction=* with
name=* and only highway=traffic_signal with name if it is only a single
light (e.g. the case with a named
in OSM we focus on ground truth and having a local (!) community taking care
of the data and keeping it in shape.
The expected iconography differs between countries, as they are shown on maps
differently in the different countries. At least comparing Japan to America,
what they expect to be
Am 18.09.2014 16:07, schrieb Lukas Sommer:
So far, highway=traffic_signal is only defined for nodes and there are
only few ways and fewer relations.
Correct.
Also in favour of separation I would prefer to use junction=* with
name=* and only
Am 18.09.2014 21:29, schrieb fly:
Am 18.09.2014 16:07, schrieb Lukas Sommer:
So far, highway=traffic_signal is only defined for nodes and there are
only few ways and fewer relations.
Correct.
Also in favour of separation I would prefer to use junction=* with
name=*
Okay, if I get you right, you want to add to every element with the tag
highway=traffic_signals and the tag name=* also another new tag, either
– highway=junction
or
– junction=traffic_signals
and the presence or absence of this tag shall influence the rendering?
* Here, I still do not see your
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com wrote:
For the junction!
For a named junction with a (not named) traffic signal: junction=yes +
highway=traffic_signals. (Quite common on Korea – on the ground, not in the
database.)
Ok, I improved the wiki about this
Would it not be more straight forward to use junction=traffic_signal in
Japan and only use highway=traffic_signal for the real lights ?
Hm, I’m not sure. It could separete clearly the individual traffic signals
from the traffic signal system/the covered area. The downside would be that
we
Am 16.09.2014 08:54, schrieb Lukas Sommer:
Would it not be more straight forward to use junction=traffic_signal in
Japan and only use highway=traffic_signal for the real lights ?
Hm, I’m not sure. It could separete clearly the individual traffic
signals from the traffic signal
The name belongs to the junction and not to the traffic_signal, or am I
wrong ?
In Japan, Hokkaido region, there is 4 traffic_signals on 1 junction.
Each traffic_signals and 1 junction has different name.
Indeed it is rare case.
But I think we need Lukas's idea to support it.
2014-09-16 23:38
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com wrote:
Currently in OSM we use yet
highway=traffic_signals for traffic signal names in Japan. And we use yet
junction=yes for junction names in Korea.
Sounds easy but...
how do you tag a named junction with a traffic signal ?
how do you tag a named junction with a traffic signal ?
highway=traffic_signal + junction=yes + name=* means that name is
for the junction or for the traffic signals ?
For the junction!
For a named junction with a (not named) traffic signal: junction=yes +
highway=traffic_signals. (Quite
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like the end goal is:
- to have junction names in korea, regardless of if they are traffic lights,
and the symbol used there doesn't imply traffic lights, just a junction.
- In Japan, the old junction system evolved to be named traffic signals, and
the
Okay, I’ve tried to work out more in detail idea 4. Please considere
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tagging_for_complex_junctions_or_traffic_signals_that_are_named
and make comments.
Lukas Sommer
2014-09-02 4:50 GMT+00:00 Satoshi IIDA nyamp...@gmail.com:
Hello from
Hey
Would it not be more straight forward to use junction=traffic_signal in
Japan and only use highway=traffic_signal for the real lights ?
Just my two ct
fly
Am 15.09.2014 19:24, schrieb Lukas Sommer:
Okay, I’ve tried to work out more in detail idea 4. Please considere
Hello from Japan,
@Lukas are the names of the traffic signals/junctions actually used in
addresses (and in principal would be a suitable value for addr:place in
an address)?
No.
We realize the name of traffic signal only for routing and navigation on
local district.
It is very separated concept
Am 24.08.2014 13:20, schrieb Lukas Sommer:
Hello everyone.
In some countries (Japan, Korea…), people orient themselves in the local
area using the names of road junctions or traffic signals rather then
the names of streets.
I have documented the current tagging practice for simple
Am 25.08.2014 16:46, schrieb fly:
.
Did you have a look at the three existing proposals about complex
junctions ?
..
IMHO one of the nice aspects of variant 4 (using an area) is that it
really doesn't collide with however the routing aspects of the junction
are mapped.
@Simon
are the names of the traffic signals/junctions actually used in
addresses (and in principal would be a suitable value for addr:place in
an address)?
Hm, I’m not sure (I’m not familiar with the group of addr:* keys). At least
they are places in the sense that they have a defined
On 08/25/2014 11:09 PM, Lukas Sommer wrote:
In Ivory Coast, you have addresses like “in front of the XYZ
crossroad” or “from XYZ crossroad 50 m towards the big fueling
station”. Rather a sort of instructions for getting somewhere than an
address in the european sense. Obviously “from XYZ
Hello everyone.
In some countries (Japan, Korea…), people orient themselves in the local
area using the names of road junctions or traffic signals rather then the
names of streets.
I have documented the current tagging practice for simple junctions at the
following new wiki pages:
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