[Talk-transit] Proposed Feature - RFC - Public Transport

2010-12-08 Thread Dominik Mahrer (Teddy)
Hi, I want to invite everyone to comment the (in central europe) already widely used new Public Transport Schema: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_Transport Teddych ___ Talk-transit mailing list

Re: [Talk-transit] Proposed Feature - RFC - Public Transport

2010-12-08 Thread Oleksandr Vlasov
Dominik Mahrer (Teddy teddy at teddy.ch writes: I want to invite everyone to comment the (in central europe) already widely used new Public Transport Schema: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_Transport Hello, it's based on Oxomoa scheme, isn't it? What's the

Re: [Talk-transit] Proposed Feature - RFC - Public Transport

2010-12-08 Thread Dominik Mahrer (Teddy)
Hi Michael In the new proposal I am missing some details on how to build relations: 1. Should the outward and return trip be represented as two separate relations, as a single relation or is that up to the mapper? Each direction should be in a separate relation. This is written in the

Re: [talk-ph] Microsoft is letting OpenStreetMap trace from their aerial imagery!!!

2010-12-08 Thread Eugene Alvin Villar
Anthony has discovered another Bing satellite image and this one covers Sta. Praxedes and Claveria in Cagayan: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/6582705 The location is a pretty odd place to have available satellite imagery being remote and having no city nearby, but Claveria has an

Re: [talk-ph] Microsoft is letting OpenStreetMap trace from their aerial imagery!!!

2010-12-08 Thread Eugene Alvin Villar
And Jolo, Sulu as well: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=88478673 On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Anthony has discovered another Bing satellite image and this one covers Sta. Praxedes and Claveria in Cagayan:

Re: [talk-ph] bing in Naic, Cavite is shifted

2010-12-08 Thread maning sambale
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: CDO CDO is OK based on my tracks yesterday. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog:

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread kevin
Nice post. Your comparison with contributions of effort to voluntary organisations is a good one, and has changed my view on the inclusion of a clause that allows the licence to be changed. With a dose of AGF, and a removal of my lawyer hat, I see the point and that it really should not be

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New phrase in section 2

2010-12-08 Thread Richard Fairhurst
John Smith wrote: In addition, some licences (such as the new UK Open Government Licence) openly avow compatibility with ODC's attribution licences (ODC-By and ODbL). Nice bait and switch... Goodness me, John, do you have to be so confrontational about _everything_?! In your first

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Eugene Alvin Villar
I agree with Frederik's very nice comparison of OSM with volunteer organizations as well. I guess OSM should be viewed as a collection of geodata to which Frederik, John, Liz, Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve, Richard, Richard, Richard, et al have contributed to, instead of as a collection of

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New phrase in section 2

2010-12-08 Thread Simon Poole
I should have phrased that differently: asking the individuals in the mapper community It's clear that somewhere in the community as a whole there is the knowhow or the money to review licenses correctly (I wouldn't have suggested a register of allowed data sources otherwise). That however

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New phrase in section 2

2010-12-08 Thread Rob Myers
On 07/12/10 23:49, Simon Poole wrote: I'm not assuming anything. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith But I believe it is fair to say that we (as in the larger OSM community) don't have an handle on imports in any respect. Yes I'd agree with that. -

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New phrase in section 2

2010-12-08 Thread Simon Poole
Since I don't beleive the current approach to handling imports in the CTs is workable: no I haven't made any effort to make the CTs 3rd party license compatible. But, yes, I've made an alternative suggestion. Essentially it boils down to the mapper importing data on behalf of the OSMF,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New phrase in section 2

2010-12-08 Thread John Smith
On 8 December 2010 18:51, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: John Smith wrote: In addition, some licences (such as the new UK Open Government Licence) openly avow compatibility with ODC's attribution licences (ODC-By and ODbL). Nice bait and switch... Goodness me, John, do you

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Advice for transiki

2010-12-08 Thread Andrei Klochko
Hi, what did you mean by the agency? What I said was not specific about one agency. I used my example in portugal only for illustration. And neither did I talk here about schedules: I let that part of the problem go, until I have 2 dollars to ask that question properly to lawyers that could

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Andreas Perstinger
On 2010-12-08 14:25, Anthony wrote: On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 8:05 AM, John Smithdeltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: And one of those problematic details is the OSMF. The OSMF was not created to control the data. In fact, this was a key founding principle. OSMF was created to support the project,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Advice for transiki

2010-12-08 Thread Andrei Klochko
Do I have the right to add this info like that? I know that wikipedia is more like a journalistic thing, so you are more free to put whatever you want, but still, I do not know precisely any applicable law in here! And besides, you know, I think albatrans would hardly notice any changes in a

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Andreas Perstinger andreas.perstin...@gmx.net wrote: On 2010-12-08 14:25, Anthony wrote: On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 8:05 AM, John Smithdeltafoxtrot...@gmail.com  wrote: And one of those problematic details is the OSMF.  The OSMF was not created to control the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Advice for transiki

2010-12-08 Thread Mike Dupont
In usa facts are not copyrightable. The facts about the transport are allowed to be put into the wikipedia, if it is notable that is another issue. Youc an also make a wikibook.org about the transportation in france. I dont see why it would be a problem. mike On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 3:40 PM,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Andreas Perstinger As I understand it, there must be someone who owns the database because otherwise you can't defend it legally.  Would you prefer a single person? I'm not sure what you mean by owns

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: By the way: The Foundation does not own the OpenStreetMap data, is not the copyright holder and has no desire to own the data. http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/OSMF:About ___ legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Advice for transiki

2010-12-08 Thread Andrei Klochko
The problem is, many people, even lawyers, told me that using timetables, or using the gps to recreate transportation maps, or even use a transportation map to extract the data about the transport lines, and nothing else, would be without problem. And then, I got the answer of Francis Davey, who

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Advice for transiki

2010-12-08 Thread Mike Dupont
I dont think I can asnwer this question, my i suggest to write the wikitravel or wikipeida articles and then to send them to the companies to comment on. Or write to thel. first. mike On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Andrei Klochko transportspl...@gmail.com wrote: The problem is, many people,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Andreas Perstinger andreas.perstin...@gmx.net wrote: As I understand it, there must be someone who owns the database because otherwise you can't defend it legally. Would you prefer a single person? On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Andreas Perstinger

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Rob Myers
On 2010-12-08 15:46, Anthony wrote: Who owns Wikipedia? At the copyright level, the ownership is fragmented. And yet that didn't stop the licence being changed. - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Robert Kaiser
Anthony schrieb: One alternative is status quo. Good idea. We'll just have to make sure anyone using our data is located in some jurisdiction where this is equivalent to PD (from all I've heard, there are quite a few). :P Robert Kaiser ___

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Robert Kaiser ka...@kairo.at wrote: Anthony schrieb: One alternative is status quo. Good idea. We'll just have to make sure anyone using our data is located in some jurisdiction where this is equivalent to PD (from all I've heard, there are quite a few). :P

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Advice for transiki

2010-12-08 Thread Andrei Klochko
This may work, but based on my experience about contacting these companies, I doubt they will answer. But maybe i'll try it anyway: they may answer after all. The problem is, by doing this I will always have parcelar information: if one company agrees, that would not mean that the next one would.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Please explain how the ODbL changes that, in the context of case law regarding shrink-wrap, browse-wrap, and the OSM situation which I'm going to refer to as I-wish-it-were-true-wrap. Or maybe Frederik can answer it:

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Andreas Perstinger
On 2010-12-08 17:23, Anthony wrote: Then no one should own the database right. So we're back at the status quo which is in my opinion not the best option (many uncertainties). The OSMF certainly should not, because a very small portion of contributors are members of the OSMF. I agree

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Advice for transiki

2010-12-08 Thread Mike Dupont
Point is, if your article is valid and good according to the rules of the wikipedia, then you can expect their help in defending you. Wikitravel contains some schedules like here : http://wikitravel.org/en/Natuna_Islands http://wikitravel.org/en/Ilawa http://wikitravel.org/en/Nyborg

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Andreas Perstinger andreas.perstin...@gmx.net wrote: On 2010-12-08 17:23, Anthony wrote: The OSMF certainly should not, because a very small portion of contributors are members of the OSMF. I agree with you that more contributors should be members of the OSMF

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Francis Davey
On 8 December 2010 17:23, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: The 1.0 CT doesn't even mention the database right.  1.2 (*) says that the individual contributors grant the right to the OSMF, but according to you the individual contributors can't have the right in the first place. I think there's

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Andreas Perstinger
On 2010-12-08 18:23, Anthony wrote: On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Andreas Perstinger andreas.perstin...@gmx.net wrote: On 2010-12-08 17:23, Anthony wrote: The OSMF certainly should not, because a very small portion of contributors are members of the OSMF. I agree with you that more

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Andreas Perstinger
On 2010-12-08 18:36, Francis Davey wrote: There's a lot of complex law here, but my best guess is that the sui generis right is first owned by the contributors collectively, so that their permission is required for its use. There are problems with that view, but other views are more problematic.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Andreas Perstinger andreas.perstin...@gmx.net wrote: On 2010-12-08 18:23, Anthony wrote: That's probably a key reason for our difference of opinion.  I'm one of those individualists that Frederik was complaining about.  I'm quite wary of collectivism and the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Francis Davey fjm...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 December 2010 17:23, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: The 1.0 CT doesn't even mention the database right.  1.2 (*) says that the individual contributors grant the right to the OSMF, but according to you the individual

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] How Can OSMF convince me to accept the New CT and ODBL

2010-12-08 Thread Francis Davey
On 8 December 2010 21:54, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: [snip] 2.   Article 3 makes you transfer the ownership (not exclusive) of your entered data to OSMF :  That is a Problem !! OSMF is gathering this way the (non exclusive)ownership of OSM as

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Elizabeth Dodd
On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 15:58:07 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 December 2010 12:44, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, John Smith wrote: Frederik seems to consistently misrepresent the license in this sort of dishonest fashion, Well at least I'm not

Re: [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Elizabeth Dodd
On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 00:34:59 + Simon Ward si...@bleah.co.uk wrote: On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 08:55:26AM -0500, Serge Wroclawski wrote: Assuming this question was asked in good faith, then I can tell you for sure that agreement to a license via a click is indeed valid. Firstly, it’s not

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread 4x4falcon
On 08/12/10 08:32, Steve Bennett wrote: On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 4:51 AM, Jowinfi...@gmail.com wrote: Jaak, do you know that you can change the offset in most editors? Potlatch2 and JOSM. I suppose in Merkaartor too, but I don't know for sure. But how do you know which direction to offset and

Re: [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Eugene Alvin Villar
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: The usual sort of click-through 'agreement' has two buttons, one for positive, and one for negative. Whether a click-through agreement with two buttons for positive and none for negative can be enforced anywhere is not

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Jacek Konieczny
On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 11:32:39AM +1100, Steve Bennett wrote: On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 4:51 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote: Jaak, do you know that you can change the offset in most editors? Potlatch2 and JOSM. I suppose in Merkaartor too, but I don't know for sure. But how do you know

Re: [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Andrew Harvey
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 9:14 AM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Failing that, maybe its time that more people started doing what Im doing. Im quite an active mapper, as its something I enjoy doing with my time. What Ive been doing for the past couple of months, is only making minor

Re: [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: This is simply because we are at the voluntary phase of agreeing with the CT right now. If you wholeheartedly agree with the CT, then you can indicate your preference right now. When we are at the mandatory phase,

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Steve Bennett
You should not map from the Bing imagery area you know nothing more about. Why do people such make bold, absolutist statements like this with no policy to back them up? There is no policy that says anything of the sort. The above sentence is one author's opinion. It would be a very good thing

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 22:01 +1100, Steve Bennett wrote: You should not map from the Bing imagery area you know nothing more about. Why do people such make bold, absolutist statements like this with no policy to back them up? There is no policy that says anything of the sort. The above

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Raphaël Pinson
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.orgwrote: On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 22:01 +1100, Steve Bennett wrote: You should not map from the Bing imagery area you know nothing more about. Why do people such make bold, absolutist statements like this with no policy

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Dermot McNally
On 8 December 2010 11:05, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote: you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about. Period. People should be nicer to their parents. Period Dermot -- -- Igaühel on siin oma laul ja ma oma ei leiagi

Re: [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Matthias Julius
On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 21:45:14 +1100, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: I've decided to just ignore the CTs for now, and continue to operate under CC BY-SA. Others are doing this to, and you could too, assuming you haven't agreed to the CTs and you don't actually plan to sit around

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 12:10 +0100, Raphaël Pinson wrote: you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about. Period. So, just to make that clear: when aerial imagery of, say, Pakistan, is made available to help mapping, I should not trace anything unless I've

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Elizabeth Dodd
On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:35:31 +0530 Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote: you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about. Period. So how about Haiti? Colombia? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 22:37 +1100, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:35:31 +0530 Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote: you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about. Period. So how about Haiti? Colombia? exceptional circumstances sometimes need

Re: [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Grant Slater
On 8 December 2010 10:58, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: This is simply because we are at the voluntary phase of agreeing with the CT right now. If you wholeheartedly agree with the CT, then you can indicate

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote: you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about. If there's consensus for this view, get it documented on the wiki, and call it policy. Otherwise, it's just yet another round of pointless You must

Re: [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-08 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Partially a rhetorical question... What would the project do if someone uploaded data to OSM and then said they had not agreed to contributing the data under CC-BY-SA? In case you're misinterpreting my request: I

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New phrase in section 2

2010-12-08 Thread Richard Fairhurst
Simon Poole wrote: That however does require the importer/mapper to raise the issue to a level where that support exists. As the LWG has pointed out, that hasn't worked in the past, and there is IMHO no reason to believe that it will magically start working in the future. Oh, sure,

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Matt Williams
On 8 December 2010 13:18, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote: you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about. If there's consensus for this view, get it documented on the wiki, and call it

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: I mean, am I the only one that thinks inventing commandments and yelling them at each other is pointless? I should apologise here for picking on two innocent individuals. I was trying to offer a criticism of the culture

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Joseph Reeves
OpenStreetMap is still a wiki though? So if I find a future travel destination missing from OSM, but covered by Bing, where's the harm in tracing it? In many parts of the world there is no such thing as local mappers and even if I did trace a load of crap into the database, anyone else can come

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Maarten Deen
Matt Williams wrote: On 8 December 2010 13:18, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote: you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about. If there's consensus for this view, get it documented on

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Jacek Konieczny
On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 10:01:45PM +1100, Steve Bennett wrote: You should not map from the Bing imagery area you know nothing more about. Why do people such make bold, absolutist statements like this with no policy to back them up? Absolutist? 'Should not' is not 'must not'. And have you

Re: [OSM-talk] Glittermap

2010-12-08 Thread Gregory
I always forget the name of this wiki page, I think it is badly named as they are not services but a list of map styles/viewers. But it is the appropriate page you seek. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_based_Services#Art

[OSM-talk] Open Threatened Species Map

2010-12-08 Thread Mike Dupont
You can help! Maps wanted for Wikipedia, Commons but data available for OSM. see : http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:IUCN_red_list The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species (also known as the IUCN Red List or Red Data List), founded in 1948, is the world's most comprehensive inventory of

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread davespod
Steve Bennett wrote: On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote: you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about. If there's consensus for this view, get it documented on the wiki, and call it policy.

[OSM-talk] How Can OSMF convince me to accept the New CT and ODBL

2010-12-08 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
Article 3 is to me the problem: The Wiki says: 3. OSMF agrees to use or sub-license Your Contents as part of a database and only under the terms of one of the following licenses: ODbL 1.0 for the database and DbCL 1.0 for the individual contents of the database; CC-BY-SA 2.0; or another

[OSM-legal-talk] How Can OSMF convince me to accept the New CT and ODBL

2010-12-08 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
Article 3 is the problem to me: The Wiki says: 3. OSMF agrees to use or sub-license Your Contents as part of a database and only under the terms of one of the following licenses: ODbL 1.0 for the database and DbCL 1.0 for the individual contents of the database; CC-BY-SA 2.0; or

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:33 AM, davespod osmli...@dellams.fastmail.fm wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners_Guide_1.1 See item 3.* Very interesting. That line was added by Ben in January 2009, and that sentence hasn't been touched since. So the question arises: does the

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Mike Dupont
I have seen a similar error in google sat for the area of brod, in kosovo. Bing is not even worth looking at for kosovo On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Jaak Laineste jaak.laine...@gmail.com wrote:  It is good news that Bing aerials are available. The bad news is that Bing has made exactly

Re: [OSM-talk] How Can OSMF convince me to accept the New CT and ODBL

2010-12-08 Thread Frederik Ramm
Gert, Article 3 is to me the problem: The legal-talk list would be a good place to discuss the wording of the Contributor Terms. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Ulf Lamping
Am 08.12.2010 22:59, schrieb Steve Bennett: On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:33 AM, davespodosmli...@dellams.fastmail.fm wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners_Guide_1.1 See item 3.* Very interesting. That line was added by Ben in January 2009, and that sentence hasn't been touched

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread davespod
Steve Bennett wrote: On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:33 AM, davespod osmli...@dellams.fastmail.fm wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners_Guide_1.1 See item 3.* Very interesting. That line was added by Ben in January 2009, and that sentence hasn't been touched since. Bah! You're

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Richard Mann
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:46 PM, davespod osmli...@dellams.fastmail.fm wrote: I have cancelled a trip to survey some lonely country lanes after someone else remotely traced them. A flying trip is only partway up the scale of desirability. What you want is someone who really knows the area.

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Ulf Lamping wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners_Guide_1.1 See item 3.* So the question arises: does the community support this view? No. I've changed the wording, trying to still say that tracing is *better* if you have local knowledge, but local knowledge is not

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread davespod
Richard Mann wrote: I wouldn't recommend remote tracing, but if you do it with due care, or maybe to supplement stuff you have surveyed (or maybe even just seen out of the window when passing), I completely agree that supplementing stuff you have surveyed or even tracing something you have

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Joseph Reeves
By the way, I don't think the intention is to suggest that it is not ok to trace an area and then visit it to correct errors and add detail. It is when you are not going to do that, it is frowned upon. I can understand why. I have cancelled a trip to survey some lonely country lanes after

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread SomeoneElse
On 08/12/2010 21:59, Steve Bennett wrote: So the question arises: does the community support this view? Unlike the Life of Brian, here everyone does seem to be an individual - I suspect that you'll get as many answers as there are mappers. Speaking entirely personally, I do mostly only map

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread john
In my case, I have done a mixture of image-tracing (from the Yahoo aerial imagery), and POI marking (from first-hand knowledge, and frequently from ccordinates measures using my phone's GPS). All of my image-tracing has been in areas that I had first-hand knowledge of. Since most of the

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Ulf Lamping
Am 08.12.2010 23:46, schrieb davespod: By the way, I don't think the intention is to suggest that it is not ok to trace an area and then visit it to correct errors and add detail. It is when you are not going to do that, it is frowned upon. I can understand why. I have cancelled a trip to survey

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 12:53 +, Joseph Reeves wrote: local mappers and even if I did trace a load of crap into the database, anyone else can come along and, providing they've got a better data source than I, fix it. please keep off India -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Ulf Lamping
Am 09.12.2010 02:49, schrieb Kenneth Gonsalves: On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 08:59 +1100, Steve Bennett wrote: (Personally, I would be arguing against it. Don't do X because the result would be less accurate than if you did Y is an unhelpful kind of perfectionism. The line makes the point that

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Alan Mintz
At 2010-12-08 04:53, Joseph Reeves wrote: OpenStreetMap is still a wiki though? So if I find a future travel destination missing from OSM, but covered by Bing, where's the harm in tracing it? In many parts of the world there is no such thing as local mappers and even if I did trace a load of

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Alan Mintz
At 2010-12-08 14:46, davespod wrote: I have cancelled a trip to survey some lonely country lanes after someone else remotely traced them. Had I gone, the map would have gained POIs instead of just a line. But it scarcely seemed worth the trip for what might have been a couple of postboxes and

Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced

2010-12-08 Thread Kenneth Gonsalves
On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 03:16 +0100, Ulf Lamping wrote: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=13.03175lon=77.56565zoom=17layers=M before the conference I did a rough sketch from satellite imagery. On arrival at the spot I found that the ground reality was totally at variance with the

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
Henk, Ik stoor mij aan het zinnetje : We zijn erg coulant in mijn beleving. OSM, dat zijn wij allen. Niemand heeft het recht om coulant te zijn tegen de community. After all, OSMF is ook maar een zelfbenoemd groepje would be regelneven. Oh , ja ik ben zelf ook lid van OSMF ;)) Gert

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread Stefan de Konink
On Wed, 8 Dec 2010, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote: Oh , ja ik ben zelf ook lid van OSMF ;)) :o Gert :o ben nu nu opeens lid van de dark force ;) Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread Floris Looijesteijn
Stefan de Konink wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 De enige representatieve poll die ooit gehouden is zegt iets heel anders: http://doodle.com/feqszqirqqxi4r7w Waar is die poll aangekondigd? Ik had hem nog niet eerder gezien maar nu ingevuld. Kwestie van interpretatie

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread Lennard
Het is toch overduidelijk dat er straks data verwijderd moet gaan worden als dit allemaal doorgaat? Dus ja, dan moet er ook geblocked worden... Als er uiteindelijk beslist wordt[1] om over te gaan naar ODbL, dan moeten inderdaad de non-compliant accounts worden geblokkeerd. Dat is evident.

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread Henk Hoff
Gert, 2010/12/8 ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl Henk, Ik stoor mij aan het zinnetje : We zijn erg coulant in mijn beleving. OSM, dat zijn wij allen. Niemand heeft het recht om coulant te zijn tegen de community. Coulant moet je zien dat de OSMF niet

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread Henk Hoff
2010/12/8 Lennard l...@xs4all.nl Henk, is er bij een niet-akkoordverklaring nog een mogelijkheid om in de toekomst, en voor de ODbL-switch, alsnog akkoord te gaan? Ja Gr, Henk ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
Henk , Nu doe je het weer !! “Coulant moet je zien dat de OSMF niet bezig om mensen zaken door de strot te duwen” OSMF is in het geheel niet bevoegd om iemand iets door de strot te duwen en ook Niet om dat te ontkennen! OSMF is gewoon een groepje OSM-ers als alle anderen. OSM is

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
Henk, is er bij een niet-akkoordverklaring nog een mogelijkheid om in de toekomst, en voor de ODbL-switch, alsnog akkoord te gaan? Andersom kennelijk niet, blijkens de discussie op talk ! Gert Van: talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread Rene Dohmen
Hoi Henk, Ik heb anderhalve vraag: - kun je ergens zien hoeveel users al gestemd hebben en hoeveel niet (dat zijn 4 categorieen)? - mij bekruipt het gevoel dat we 'oude' waarden als 2/3 meerderheid gaan toevoegen om radertjes soepeler te laten lopen, terwijl dat op een eenvoudige manier met

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread Lennard
On 8-12-2010 20:10, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote: Henk, is er bij een niet-akkoordverklaring nog een mogelijkheid om in de toekomst, en voor de ODbL-switch, alsnog akkoord te gaan? Andersom kennelijk niet, blijkens de discussie op talk ! Dat is wel heel begrijpelijk.

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread Henk Hoff
2010/12/8 ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl OSM is niet van OSMF ! De OSMF is de officiële rechtspersoon die de OSM-database publiceert. Gert * * Henk ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread Henk Hoff
Rene, 2010/12/8 Rene Dohmen rdohmen+osm-talk...@gmail.comrdohmen%2bosm-talk...@gmail.com Hoi Henk, Ik heb anderhalve vraag: - kun je ergens zien hoeveel users al gestemd hebben en hoeveel niet (dat zijn 4 categorieen)? Op http://planet.openstreetmap.org/users_agreed/users_agreed.txt

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
Wanneer heeft de OSMF de OSM-staat uitgeroepen ? Gert Van: talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens Henk Hoff Verzonden: woensdag 8 december 2010 21:13 Aan: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread Lennard
On 8-12-2010 21:12, Henk Hoff wrote: De OSMF is de officiële rechtspersoon die de OSM-database publiceert. Leest het niet correcter als: De OSMF is een officiële rechtspersoon die de OSM-database publiceert. ? -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread Rene Dohmen
De grafische weergave geeft het idee dat grofweg de helft (qua omvang) accoord gaat, er staan echter maar ongeveer 5500 userid's in de lijst: is dat 5500 van 280.000 users? Dat zou betekenen dat omvangrijk werk al zeker meegenomen wordt, maar kleiner detailwerk niet. Zie ik dat goed? mvg, Rene

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread Ben Laenen
Henk Hoff wrote: Hier kun je een visuele weergave zien van hoeveel data er beschikbaar is onder ODbL http://matt.dev.openstreetmap.org/treemap.png Kan er ook eens een treemap gemaakt worden waar de imports uit zijn weggelaten? Ben ___ Talk-nl

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Licentie - update

2010-12-08 Thread Lennard
On 8-12-2010 21:34, Rene Dohmen wrote: De grafische weergave geeft het idee dat grofweg de helft (qua omvang) accoord gaat, er staan echter maar ongeveer 5500 userid's in de lijst: is dat 5500 van 280.000 users? Dat zou betekenen dat omvangrijk werk al zeker meegenomen wordt, maar kleiner

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