Re: [talk-au] Microsoft Australian building footprints

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 14:53, Daniel O'Connor 
wrote:

> There's a link on the github repo to download a GeoJSON file. They haven't
> made it available via rapid yet.
>

That would probably explain why I couldn't find it!

Looking at it via JOSM,
>

& seeing that I don't JOSM, I won't worry to much just now

Thanks

Graeme
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[OSM-talk-fr] fermeture des magasins GAP

[Florian LAINEZ]

Hey,
Tous les magasins GAP d'Europe seront définitivement fermés à partir du 20
octobre (source
https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2020/10/20/en-crise-l-enseigne-gap-decide-de-quitter-totalement-l-europe_6056754_3234.html
)

J'en trouve 16 en France  mais on pourrait
créer une alerte Osmose pour toute l'Europe pour les tags suivants :
shop=clothes
name=Gap;GAP
brand:wikidata=Q420822
brand=Gap;GAP
operator=Gap;GAP

Quelqu'un de motivé pour faire ça ?
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Re: [talk-au] Microsoft Australian building footprints

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Where are you all finding this info?

I've had a look at RapiD & they either don't have much on the GC, or I'm
just doing something wrong (which is quite, quite possible! :-)), because I
can't see anything to check?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Microsoft Australian building footprints

[Daniel O'Connor]

Looks like my other message didn't go through.

Agree re the slight rotational issues; and it being at about the level of a
new-intermediate contributor from the samples around Adelaide I managed to
look at.

I found sometimes, it would mistake bright concrete as part of a building
footprint.

Because of the simple way I split the files up, I've only got sporadic
coverage - a few buildings per street from my 10% sample. I'm not sure if
the original file is sorted by longitude/latitude in any way; or if the
model simply missed many of these. @Andrew Harvey  -
can you shed some light on this?

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 12:30 PM Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

> Also buildings which are touching like a shop fronts are just one polygon,
> but I don't think you'd ever be able to do this too reliably without a
> survey anyway. Even if there is a small gap between buildings eg a garage
> and residence sometimes it will join them into a single polygon.
>
> What I feel it does do well is actually identify buildings, I haven't
> found any false positives, only a few false negatives where a building is
> hidden under dense tree coverage.
>
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 12:52, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 21:20, Simon Poole  wrote:
>>
>>> Just as a comment: there is nothing so time consuming as fixing badly
>>> mapped buildings (essentially drawing them from scratch is nearly always
>>> faster), I would only import building outlines that are at a quality level
>>> that you would not want to change them except if the building itself has
>>> been modified.
>>>
>>
>> I took a look at these building footprints from Microsoft in Sydney,
>> where we have high resolution aerial imagery with usually pretty good
>> positional accuracy and orthorectification.
>>
>> The MS buildings aren't as good as hand tracing would be, but better than
>> some of the worst mapping done through the HOT tasking manager building
>> tracing projects.
>>
>> Compared to the DCS aerial imagery the alignment (rotation) is usually a
>> fair bit off, but "good enough" basic footprints, the shape is just okay,
>> not great, not terrible.
>>
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Re: [Talk-transit] bus=yes opinion

[Agustin Rissoli]

> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 23:54:02 +0800
> From: Michael Tsang 
> To: Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics
> 
> Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] bus=yes opinion
> Message-ID: <2965693.77BygNnF6Z@debian>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Saturday, 11 July 2020 23:30:29 HKT Snusmumriken wrote:
> > On Sat, 2020-07-11 at 02:33 -0300, Agustin Rissoli wrote:
> > > What are your opinion of adding bus=yes along with
> > > public_transport=platform + highway=bus_stop?
> >
> > In the presence of highway=bus_stop I think the bus_yes tag is
> > totally unnecessary.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-transit mailing list
> > Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
>
> I consider the following scenario:
>
> 1. There is no physical stop but it is a generally accepted place to board
> and
> alight buses. I map public_transport=platform and bus=yes but not
> highway=bus_stop
>
> 2. There is a physical bus stop pole but there are no longer any buses
> using
> it. I only map highway=bus_stop but not bus=yes there.
>
> Michael
>
> --
> Sent from KMail
> -
>
> --
>
1 It is still a stop, therefore highway=bus_stop should be used, in this
case I add unsigned=yes

2 In this case, disused:highway=bus_stop must be used.


Agustín

>
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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 160, Issue 14

[Warren]

Hi John
I use  JOSM.  Any file format that I can bring in as a layer would be 
fine.   I can then select, copy and paste the tracings into an active 
layer for upload, checking as I go.  Certainly faster than tracing by hand.
I am not sure when JOSM get chocked by file size, but say Perth or the 
South West of WA may be enough of a reduction.

Thanks

On 21/10/2020 9:20 am, John Bryant wrote:
Hi Warren, I could probably help with this. What would be a good size 
for a chunk? What would be a useful format?


On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 07:21, Warren > wrote:


Hi

I am in the eastern suburbs of Perth where minimal buildings have
been
traced.  I would be happy to check trace data in my area, lets
face it
hand tracing is not much fun  and very time consuming.  I think some
inaccuracies are acceptable, they can be modified as they become
apparent.
The data at
https://github.com/microsoft/AustraliaBuildingFootprints
 is
much too large for me to handle.
Is  someone more skillful than me able to break this data set into
bite
sized chunks?


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Re: [talk-au] Microsoft Australian building footprints

[Andrew Harvey]

Also buildings which are touching like a shop fronts are just one polygon,
but I don't think you'd ever be able to do this too reliably without a
survey anyway. Even if there is a small gap between buildings eg a garage
and residence sometimes it will join them into a single polygon.

What I feel it does do well is actually identify buildings, I haven't found
any false positives, only a few false negatives where a building is hidden
under dense tree coverage.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 12:52, Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 21:20, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
>> Just as a comment: there is nothing so time consuming as fixing badly
>> mapped buildings (essentially drawing them from scratch is nearly always
>> faster), I would only import building outlines that are at a quality level
>> that you would not want to change them except if the building itself has
>> been modified.
>>
>
> I took a look at these building footprints from Microsoft in Sydney, where
> we have high resolution aerial imagery with usually pretty good positional
> accuracy and orthorectification.
>
> The MS buildings aren't as good as hand tracing would be, but better than
> some of the worst mapping done through the HOT tasking manager building
> tracing projects.
>
> Compared to the DCS aerial imagery the alignment (rotation) is usually a
> fair bit off, but "good enough" basic footprints, the shape is just okay,
> not great, not terrible.
>
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Re: [talk-au] Microsoft Australian building footprints

[Andrew Harvey]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 21:20, Simon Poole  wrote:

> Just as a comment: there is nothing so time consuming as fixing badly
> mapped buildings (essentially drawing them from scratch is nearly always
> faster), I would only import building outlines that are at a quality level
> that you would not want to change them except if the building itself has
> been modified.
>

I took a look at these building footprints from Microsoft in Sydney, where
we have high resolution aerial imagery with usually pretty good positional
accuracy and orthorectification.

The MS buildings aren't as good as hand tracing would be, but better than
some of the worst mapping done through the HOT tasking manager building
tracing projects.

Compared to the DCS aerial imagery the alignment (rotation) is usually a
fair bit off, but "good enough" basic footprints, the shape is just okay,
not great, not terrible.
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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 160, Issue 14

[John Bryant]

Hi Warren, I could probably help with this. What would be a good size for a
chunk? What would be a useful format?

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 07:21, Warren  wrote:

> Hi
>
> I am in the eastern suburbs of Perth where minimal buildings have been
> traced.  I would be happy to check trace data in my area, lets face it
> hand tracing is not much fun  and very time consuming.  I think some
> inaccuracies are acceptable, they can be modified as they become apparent.
> The data at https://github.com/microsoft/AustraliaBuildingFootprints is
> much too large for me to handle.
> Is  someone more skillful than me able to break this data set into bite
> sized chunks?
>
>
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>
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[Talk-bo] Fwd: [Tagging] How are busways mapped, which are not guideways?

[Marco Antonio]

Es la lista de etiquetado Joseph plantea introducir una nueva etiqueta para
los carril bus exclusivo para buses, como el que hay en el 1er anillo de
Santa Cruz de la Sierra.

Es oportuna la discusión, y al parecer cuando estaba mapeando el carril-bus
del BRT puse las mismas etiquetas que ponen en otras ciudades, pero otras
hay que especificar. Siendo estos carriles "algo nuevo" en las ciudades la
discusión será si como service está bien dejarlo u optar por nueva etiqueta
highway=busway...

la discusión
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2020-October/055747.html

Abrazos,

Marco Antonio


-- Forwarded message -
From: Joseph Eisenberg 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 at 06:12
Subject: [Tagging] How are busways mapped, which are not guideways?
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools 


There is an approved tag for bus guideways, where specially-designed buses
are guided by a rail:

But how should ordinary busways be mapped? Right now the suggestion on
highway=bus_guideway is that other busways might be mapped highway=service
+ bus=designated + access=no. (See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dbus_guideway)

There is also a somewhat common tag service=busway which has been used 2500
times, and can be added to highway=service

Alternatively, the tag highway=busway has been used a couple of dozen
times, and there is a new draft proposal to use this tag instead of
highway=service, for standard busways:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway=busway

A new tag would require database users to adapt, but since guided busways
already have a specific tag, it seems odd that other exclusive busways are
mapped only as service roads.

-- Joseph Eisenberg
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Re: [talk-cz] Mazání nepohodlných dat z OSM

[Pavel Machek]

AhoJ!

> napriklad posledni edit
> 
> http://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=92219948
> 
> maze spoustu cest, ktere existuji a nekolikrat jsem vetsinu jel, behem
> posledniho roku, takze urcite v terenu jsou, pokud tam lesaci, nebo
> nekdo legalni neprojel bagrem.
> 
> Klidne se tam pojedu podivat, ale podle me na (alespon castecny) revert.
> Pokud s nim dojdete k nejakemu kompromisu, budu rad.

Cas na spolupraci s data working group? Tohle je normalni vandalismus...

Pavel
-- 
http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek


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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 160, Issue 14

[Warren]

Hi

I am in the eastern suburbs of Perth where minimal buildings have been 
traced.  I would be happy to check trace data in my area, lets face it 
hand tracing is not much fun  and very time consuming.  I think some 
inaccuracies are acceptable, they can be modified as they become apparent.
The data at https://github.com/microsoft/AustraliaBuildingFootprints is 
much too large for me to handle.
Is  someone more skillful than me able to break this data set into bite 
sized chunks?



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Re: [talk-cz] Mazání nepohodlných dat z OSM

[Jan Macura]

Ahoj,

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 20:59, Jan Martinec  wrote:

> TL;DR: tady už jsme byli s Klinikou, a s Krymem, a s pěšinami v ochranném
> pásmu dráhy, a s tunelem Blanka, a furt stojím za OTGR.
>
> OpenStreetMap je postavená na popisu světa, jak tam venku fyzicky
> existuje: pokud je špatně svět, nespraví se tím, že poškrábeme zrcadlo.
> Pokud tam je pěšina, budiž v mapě - pokud se po ní nesmí jezdit, otagujme
> ji tak; pokud je to nesprávně popsaný jako cycleway, opravme to - ale
> netvařme se, že to zmizí, když se tam nebudeme koukat.
>

Razítko, podpis.

Ale bylo by fajn to uživateli Gorny aspoň zkusit vysvětlit tak, že řešením
není mazání, nýbrž správné označení. Je dlouhodobě vždy výhodnější získat
si toho člověka na svou stranu, než si vytvořit nového nepřítele.

H.
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[Talk-it] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Find actively browsed undermapped regions and other gaps in OSM

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Avete visti queste mappe? E' stato annunciato oggi su talk, molto
interessante, la mappa dove i dati sono vecchi ma ci sono persone che
guardano, l'overlay dei mappatori attivi, zone dove mancano edifici.

link sotto...

-- Forwarded message -
Von: Darafei Praliaskouski via talk 
Date: Di., 20. Okt. 2020 um 15:38 Uhr
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Find actively browsed undermapped regions and other
gaps in OSM
To: 


Hi,

Fixed links:

Kontur OpenStreetMap Antiquity:
https://disaster.ninja/live/#id=GDACS_EQ_1240102_1338684;position=7.92,45.59;zoom=4.4;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_antiquity

Kontur OpenStreetMap Building Quantity:
https://disaster.ninja/live/#id=GDACS_EQ_1240102_1338684;position=-75.17,40.144086257217054;zoom=8.56;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_building_quantity

The other layers are available in the right Overlay panel.

Have a good day.

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 3:46 PM Darafei Praliaskouski 
wrote:
>
> Hi mappers,
>
> We’ve polished our visualization of the need for OpenStreetMap data,
> and its quality. We’ve been building Disaster.Ninja tool to assist HOT
> in their activation process, but believe it’s also useful for the
> general mapping community.
>
> Kontur OpenStreetMap Antiquity layer lets you see where people look at
> the map tiles versus when the map was last edited. Good way to see
> undermapped regions that are explored by the users in search of data.
> We base the layer on tile views information, thanks Operations Working
> group for making it available for such analysis.
>
>
https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=7.92,45.59;zoom=4.4;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_antiquity
>
> Kontur OpenStreetMap Building Quantity is now pointing to a lot more
> missed buildings. This became possible thanks to Copernicus releasing
> a high resolution global landcover classification raster, and
> Microsoft providing the computer vision detected buildings for Canada,
> USA, Uganda and Tanzania. Look at the gaps here:
>
>
https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=-75.17,40.144086257217054;zoom=8.56;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_building_quantity
>
> I know this layer was used to plan some mapping parties in Ukraine
already.
>
> Check out the other layers if you haven’t seen them, too. :)
>
> To support this visualization we combined all the available public
> datasets (Facebook Population, OpenStreetMap, Microsoft buildings,
> Copernicus) into a single world population dataset. If you need it for
> your analysis, get it here:
> https://data.humdata.org/dataset/kontur-population-dataset
>
> Hope to hear your thoughts on this update.
>
> Darafei

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[Talk-pt] Ways sem tags

[Alexandre Moleiro]

Olá.

Verifica-se a existência de um número não desprezável de ways sem tag que
não fazem parte de qualquer relação.
Também existem nós isolados sem qualquer tag.

Se cada um na sua zona tratar destes casos rapidamente limpamos todo o país.

Podem usar as seguintes queries overpass para detectar estes casos:

Para os nós vazios:
[bbox:{{bbox}}];
rel; > -> .r;
way; > -> .w;
(( node(if:count_tags()==0); - node.r; ); - node.w; );
out meta;

Para as ways sem tag:
[bbox:{{bbox}}];
rel; > -> .r;
way; > -> .w;
( way(if:count_tags()==0); - way.r; );
(._;>;);
out meta;

As queries podem ser usadas directamente no JOSM ou nos sites Overpass

Da minha parte vou tratar destes casos nos distritos de Faro e Beja.

-- 
Alexandre Moleiro
  alexandre.mole...@gmail.com
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Re: [talk-cz] Mazání nepohodlných dat z OSM

[mahdi1234]

Stejne tak dve zmeny v Zamilcu, pred 2 - 3 mesicema jsem cast tech cest jel.

mahdi

Jakub Jelen wrote on 10/20/20 7:03 PM:
>
> Ahoj,
>
> napriklad posledni edit
>
> http://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=92219948
>
> maze spoustu cest, ktere existuji a nekolikrat jsem vetsinu jel, behem
> posledniho roku, takze urcite v terenu jsou, pokud tam lesaci, nebo
> nekdo legalni neprojel bagrem.
>
> Klidne se tam pojedu podivat, ale podle me na (alespon castecny)
> revert. Pokud s nim dojdete k nejakemu kompromisu, budu rad.
>
> Diky,
> Jakub
>
> On 10/20/20 8:57 PM, Jan Martinec wrote:
>> Ahoj,
>>
>> TL;DR: tady už jsme byli s Klinikou, a s Krymem, a s pěšinami v
>> ochranném pásmu dráhy, a s tunelem Blanka, a furt stojím za OTGR.
>>
>> OpenStreetMap je postavená na popisu světa, jak tam venku fyzicky
>> existuje: pokud je špatně svět, nespraví se tím, že poškrábeme
>> zrcadlo. Pokud tam je pěšina, budiž v mapě - pokud se po ní nesmí
>> jezdit, otagujme ji tak; pokud je to nesprávně popsaný jako cycleway,
>> opravme to - ale netvařme se, že to zmizí, když se tam nebudeme koukat.
>>
>> Mapování zdar,
>> Honza Piškvor Martinec
>>
>> Dne út 20. 10. 2020 20:17 uživatel Vladan Kudláč
>> mailto:vladankud...@gmail.com>> napsal:
>>
>> Zdravím, kontaktoval jsem uživatele Gorny
>> , který provedl 6
>> editací, ve kterých maže MTB cesty z databáze OSM. Prý jsou
>> nelegální.
>>
>> Zeptal jsem se, jestli zde nejsou aspoň pozůstatky cest a za mě
>> to vypadá, že trasy v terénu jsou a tedy mazání není oprávněné.
>> Jako řešení vidím revert nebo změnit tagy na "path". Jak byste to
>> vyřešili, případně vykomunikovali s Gorny?
>>
>> /Dobrý den,/
>>
>> //
>>
>> /snažím se smazat všechny ilegální mtb trasy z okolí Brna,
>> které by tam neměly být. Doufám, že toto chápete a provedenou
>> změnu schválite./
>>
>> //
>>
>> //
>>
>> /Zdravím Gourny! Z vašich změn vidím, že mažete velké
>> množství cest. Jste si jistý, že se tyto cesty v terénu
>> skutečně nenacházejí a nejsou po nich žádné stopy? Jedině
>> tehdy je mazání tou správnou volbou./
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Gourny/history
>>
>> --
>> Vladan Kudláč
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Re: [talk-cz] Mazání nepohodlných dat z OSM

[Jakub Jelen]

Ahoj,

napriklad posledni edit

http://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=92219948

maze spoustu cest, ktere existuji a nekolikrat jsem vetsinu jel, behem
posledniho roku, takze urcite v terenu jsou, pokud tam lesaci, nebo
nekdo legalni neprojel bagrem.

Klidne se tam pojedu podivat, ale podle me na (alespon castecny) revert.
Pokud s nim dojdete k nejakemu kompromisu, budu rad.

Diky,
Jakub

On 10/20/20 8:57 PM, Jan Martinec wrote:
> Ahoj,
>
> TL;DR: tady už jsme byli s Klinikou, a s Krymem, a s pěšinami v
> ochranném pásmu dráhy, a s tunelem Blanka, a furt stojím za OTGR.
>
> OpenStreetMap je postavená na popisu světa, jak tam venku fyzicky
> existuje: pokud je špatně svět, nespraví se tím, že poškrábeme
> zrcadlo. Pokud tam je pěšina, budiž v mapě - pokud se po ní nesmí
> jezdit, otagujme ji tak; pokud je to nesprávně popsaný jako cycleway,
> opravme to - ale netvařme se, že to zmizí, když se tam nebudeme koukat.
>
> Mapování zdar,
> Honza Piškvor Martinec
>
> Dne út 20. 10. 2020 20:17 uživatel Vladan Kudláč
> mailto:vladankud...@gmail.com>> napsal:
>
> Zdravím, kontaktoval jsem uživatele Gorny
> , který provedl 6
> editací, ve kterých maže MTB cesty z databáze OSM. Prý jsou nelegální.
>
> Zeptal jsem se, jestli zde nejsou aspoň pozůstatky cest a za mě to
> vypadá, že trasy v terénu jsou a tedy mazání není oprávněné. Jako
> řešení vidím revert nebo změnit tagy na "path". Jak byste to
> vyřešili, případně vykomunikovali s Gorny?
>
> /Dobrý den,/
>
> //
>
> /snažím se smazat všechny ilegální mtb trasy z okolí Brna,
> které by tam neměly být. Doufám, že toto chápete a provedenou
> změnu schválite./
>
> //
>
> //
>
> /Zdravím Gourny! Z vašich změn vidím, že mažete velké
> množství cest. Jste si jistý, že se tyto cesty v terénu
> skutečně nenacházejí a nejsou po nich žádné stopy? Jedině
> tehdy je mazání tou správnou volbou./
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Gourny/history
>
> --
> Vladan Kudláč
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Re: [talk-cz] Mazání nepohodlných dat z OSM

[Jan Martinec]

Ahoj,

TL;DR: tady už jsme byli s Klinikou, a s Krymem, a s pěšinami v ochranném
pásmu dráhy, a s tunelem Blanka, a furt stojím za OTGR.

OpenStreetMap je postavená na popisu světa, jak tam venku fyzicky existuje:
pokud je špatně svět, nespraví se tím, že poškrábeme zrcadlo. Pokud tam je
pěšina, budiž v mapě - pokud se po ní nesmí jezdit, otagujme ji tak; pokud
je to nesprávně popsaný jako cycleway, opravme to - ale netvařme se, že to
zmizí, když se tam nebudeme koukat.

Mapování zdar,
Honza Piškvor Martinec

Dne út 20. 10. 2020 20:17 uživatel Vladan Kudláč 
napsal:

> Zdravím, kontaktoval jsem uživatele Gorny
> , který provedl 6 editací, ve
> kterých maže MTB cesty z databáze OSM. Prý jsou nelegální.
>
> Zeptal jsem se, jestli zde nejsou aspoň pozůstatky cest a za mě to vypadá,
> že trasy v terénu jsou a tedy mazání není oprávněné. Jako řešení vidím
> revert nebo změnit tagy na "path". Jak byste to vyřešili, případně
> vykomunikovali s Gorny?
>
> *Dobrý den,*
>>
>> *snažím se smazat všechny ilegální mtb trasy z okolí Brna, které by tam
>> neměly být. Doufám, že toto chápete a provedenou změnu schválite.*
>>
>> *Zdravím Gourny! Z vašich změn vidím, že mažete velké množství cest. Jste
>> si jistý, že se tyto cesty v terénu skutečně nenacházejí a nejsou po nich
>> žádné stopy? Jedině tehdy je mazání tou správnou volbou.*
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Gourny/history
>
> --
> Vladan Kudláč
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[talk-cz] Mazání nepohodlných dat z OSM

[Vladan Kudláč]

Zdravím, kontaktoval jsem uživatele Gorny
, který provedl 6 editací, ve
kterých maže MTB cesty z databáze OSM. Prý jsou nelegální.

Zeptal jsem se, jestli zde nejsou aspoň pozůstatky cest a za mě to vypadá,
že trasy v terénu jsou a tedy mazání není oprávněné. Jako řešení vidím
revert nebo změnit tagy na "path". Jak byste to vyřešili, případně
vykomunikovali s Gorny?

*Dobrý den,*
>
> *snažím se smazat všechny ilegální mtb trasy z okolí Brna, které by tam
> neměly být. Doufám, že toto chápete a provedenou změnu schválite.*
>
> *Zdravím Gourny! Z vašich změn vidím, že mažete velké množství cest. Jste
> si jistý, že se tyto cesty v terénu skutečně nenacházejí a nejsou po nich
> žádné stopy? Jedině tehdy je mazání tou správnou volbou.*
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Gourny/history

--
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Re: [OSM-talk] Find actively browsed undermapped regions and other gaps in OSM

[Yves via talk]

Really fun to see usernames where your brain expect places, I love it!
Makes me want to check on neighborhood, so it's a good work. 
Yves

Le 20 octobre 2020 15:31:15 GMT+02:00, Darafei Praliaskouski via talk 
 a écrit :
>Hi,
>
>Fixed links:
>
>Kontur OpenStreetMap Antiquity:
>https://disaster.ninja/live/#id=GDACS_EQ_1240102_1338684;position=7.92,45.59;zoom=4.4;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_antiquity
>
>Kontur OpenStreetMap Building Quantity:
>https://disaster.ninja/live/#id=GDACS_EQ_1240102_1338684;position=-75.17,40.144086257217054;zoom=8.56;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_building_quantity
>
>The other layers are available in the right Overlay panel.
>
>Have a good day.
>
>On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 3:46 PM Darafei Praliaskouski  
>wrote:
>>
>> Hi mappers,
>>
>> We’ve polished our visualization of the need for OpenStreetMap data,
>> and its quality. We’ve been building Disaster.Ninja tool to assist HOT
>> in their activation process, but believe it’s also useful for the
>> general mapping community.
>>
>> Kontur OpenStreetMap Antiquity layer lets you see where people look at
>> the map tiles versus when the map was last edited. Good way to see
>> undermapped regions that are explored by the users in search of data.
>> We base the layer on tile views information, thanks Operations Working
>> group for making it available for such analysis.
>>
>> https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=7.92,45.59;zoom=4.4;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_antiquity
>>
>> Kontur OpenStreetMap Building Quantity is now pointing to a lot more
>> missed buildings. This became possible thanks to Copernicus releasing
>> a high resolution global landcover classification raster, and
>> Microsoft providing the computer vision detected buildings for Canada,
>> USA, Uganda and Tanzania. Look at the gaps here:
>>
>> https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=-75.17,40.144086257217054;zoom=8.56;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_building_quantity
>>
>> I know this layer was used to plan some mapping parties in Ukraine already.
>>
>> Check out the other layers if you haven’t seen them, too. :)
>>
>> To support this visualization we combined all the available public
>> datasets (Facebook Population, OpenStreetMap, Microsoft buildings,
>> Copernicus) into a single world population dataset. If you need it for
>> your analysis, get it here:
>> https://data.humdata.org/dataset/kontur-population-dataset
>>
>> Hope to hear your thoughts on this update.
>>
>> Darafei
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Find actively browsed undermapped regions and other gaps in OSM

[Andy Mabbett]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 15:04, James  wrote:
>
> Just a little feedback, the "mobile" version looks like eye cancer

I had a friend who died from eye cancer; I can assure you it does not.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk] Find actively browsed undermapped regions and other gaps in OSM

[James]

Just a little feedback, the "mobile" version looks like eye cancer:

https://imgur.com/a/lA44Qmn

On Tue., Oct. 20, 2020, 9:38 a.m. Darafei Praliaskouski via talk, <
talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Fixed links:
>
> Kontur OpenStreetMap Antiquity:
>
> https://disaster.ninja/live/#id=GDACS_EQ_1240102_1338684;position=7.92,45.59;zoom=4.4;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_antiquity
>
> Kontur OpenStreetMap Building Quantity:
>
> https://disaster.ninja/live/#id=GDACS_EQ_1240102_1338684;position=-75.17,40.144086257217054;zoom=8.56;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_building_quantity
>
> The other layers are available in the right Overlay panel.
>
> Have a good day.
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 3:46 PM Darafei Praliaskouski 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi mappers,
> >
> > We’ve polished our visualization of the need for OpenStreetMap data,
> > and its quality. We’ve been building Disaster.Ninja tool to assist HOT
> > in their activation process, but believe it’s also useful for the
> > general mapping community.
> >
> > Kontur OpenStreetMap Antiquity layer lets you see where people look at
> > the map tiles versus when the map was last edited. Good way to see
> > undermapped regions that are explored by the users in search of data.
> > We base the layer on tile views information, thanks Operations Working
> > group for making it available for such analysis.
> >
> >
> https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=7.92,45.59;zoom=4.4;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_antiquity
> >
> > Kontur OpenStreetMap Building Quantity is now pointing to a lot more
> > missed buildings. This became possible thanks to Copernicus releasing
> > a high resolution global landcover classification raster, and
> > Microsoft providing the computer vision detected buildings for Canada,
> > USA, Uganda and Tanzania. Look at the gaps here:
> >
> >
> https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=-75.17,40.144086257217054;zoom=8.56;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_building_quantity
> >
> > I know this layer was used to plan some mapping parties in Ukraine
> already.
> >
> > Check out the other layers if you haven’t seen them, too. :)
> >
> > To support this visualization we combined all the available public
> > datasets (Facebook Population, OpenStreetMap, Microsoft buildings,
> > Copernicus) into a single world population dataset. If you need it for
> > your analysis, get it here:
> > https://data.humdata.org/dataset/kontur-population-dataset
> >
> > Hope to hear your thoughts on this update.
> >
> > Darafei
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Find actively browsed undermapped regions and other gaps in OSM

[Darafei Praliaskouski via talk]

Hi,

Fixed links:

Kontur OpenStreetMap Antiquity:
https://disaster.ninja/live/#id=GDACS_EQ_1240102_1338684;position=7.92,45.59;zoom=4.4;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_antiquity

Kontur OpenStreetMap Building Quantity:
https://disaster.ninja/live/#id=GDACS_EQ_1240102_1338684;position=-75.17,40.144086257217054;zoom=8.56;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_building_quantity

The other layers are available in the right Overlay panel.

Have a good day.

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 3:46 PM Darafei Praliaskouski  wrote:
>
> Hi mappers,
>
> We’ve polished our visualization of the need for OpenStreetMap data,
> and its quality. We’ve been building Disaster.Ninja tool to assist HOT
> in their activation process, but believe it’s also useful for the
> general mapping community.
>
> Kontur OpenStreetMap Antiquity layer lets you see where people look at
> the map tiles versus when the map was last edited. Good way to see
> undermapped regions that are explored by the users in search of data.
> We base the layer on tile views information, thanks Operations Working
> group for making it available for such analysis.
>
> https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=7.92,45.59;zoom=4.4;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_antiquity
>
> Kontur OpenStreetMap Building Quantity is now pointing to a lot more
> missed buildings. This became possible thanks to Copernicus releasing
> a high resolution global landcover classification raster, and
> Microsoft providing the computer vision detected buildings for Canada,
> USA, Uganda and Tanzania. Look at the gaps here:
>
> https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=-75.17,40.144086257217054;zoom=8.56;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_building_quantity
>
> I know this layer was used to plan some mapping parties in Ukraine already.
>
> Check out the other layers if you haven’t seen them, too. :)
>
> To support this visualization we combined all the available public
> datasets (Facebook Population, OpenStreetMap, Microsoft buildings,
> Copernicus) into a single world population dataset. If you need it for
> your analysis, get it here:
> https://data.humdata.org/dataset/kontur-population-dataset
>
> Hope to hear your thoughts on this update.
>
> Darafei

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[OSM-talk] Find actively browsed undermapped regions and other gaps in OSM

[Darafei Praliaskouski via talk]

Hi mappers,

We’ve polished our visualization of the need for OpenStreetMap data,
and its quality. We’ve been building Disaster.Ninja tool to assist HOT
in their activation process, but believe it’s also useful for the
general mapping community.

Kontur OpenStreetMap Antiquity layer lets you see where people look at
the map tiles versus when the map was last edited. Good way to see
undermapped regions that are explored by the users in search of data.
We base the layer on tile views information, thanks Operations Working
group for making it available for such analysis.

https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=7.92,45.59;zoom=4.4;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_antiquity

Kontur OpenStreetMap Building Quantity is now pointing to a lot more
missed buildings. This became possible thanks to Copernicus releasing
a high resolution global landcover classification raster, and
Microsoft providing the computer vision detected buildings for Canada,
USA, Uganda and Tanzania. Look at the gaps here:

https://disaster.ninja/live/#position=-75.17,40.144086257217054;zoom=8.56;overlays=bivariate-custom_kontur_openstreetmap_building_quantity

I know this layer was used to plan some mapping parties in Ukraine already.

Check out the other layers if you haven’t seen them, too. :)

To support this visualization we combined all the available public
datasets (Facebook Population, OpenStreetMap, Microsoft buildings,
Copernicus) into a single world population dataset. If you need it for
your analysis, get it here:
https://data.humdata.org/dataset/kontur-population-dataset

Hope to hear your thoughts on this update.

Darafei

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[Talk-de] Einladung zum virtuellen Karlsruher OSM-Stammtisch am 21. Oktober 2020

[Michael Reichert]

Hallo,

weil es zu kalt ist, um draußen zu sitzen, und ein Treffen in Person
illegal wäre, findet der nächste Karlsruher OSM-Stammtisch am Mittwoch,
den 21. Oktober virtuell statt. Das heißt, dass auch diejenigen, die
nicht in oder um Karlsruhe herum wohnen, teilnehmen können. Wir freuen
uns auf eure Teilnahme.

Der Karlsruher Stammtisch behandelt häufig Software-Entwicklungs-Themen.
Ansonsten geht es meist um Fahrräder, Trekkingplätze, OSMF, Bahn-Sachen
und Offtopic-Themen.

Zeit: Mittwoch, 21. Oktober 2020 20:00 Uhr
Ort: https://jitsi.geofabrik.de/osm_ka_20201021

Benutzername: osmcommunity
Passwort: WirLiebenJOSM

Als Browser empfehlen Chrome/Chromium. Unsere Jtisi-Instanz verfolgt
euch nicht.

Für die Teilnahme ist keine Kamera erforderlich. Bitte Kopfhörer verwenden.

Viele Grüße

Michael



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Re: [talk-au] Microsoft Australian building footprints

[Simon Poole]

Just as a comment: there is nothing so time consuming as fixing badly 
mapped buildings (essentially drawing them from scratch is nearly always 
faster), I would only import building outlines that are at a quality 
level that you would not want to change them except if the building 
itself has been modified.


Simon

PS: lives in an area which had 10s of 1000s of buildings mapped already 
in 2009 from mushy misaligned yahoo imagery.


Am 20.10.2020 um 11:12 schrieb Andrew Harvey:
On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 18:39, Daniel O'Connor 
mailto:daniel.ocon...@gmail.com>> wrote:


and after a bit of digging came across this ODBL data:
https://github.com/microsoft/AustraliaBuildingFootprints


As fun as hand tracing data is; I'd be pretty keen to swap to
small scale imports of this, suburb by suburb in my area.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Microsoft_Building_Footprint_Data

details the data in more general terms, and links to a few import
proposals.

Anyone feel like exploring and validating the quality of the data
in their areas?


Thanks for posting, I didn't realise they had released something for 
Australia. It says "The data will also be made available in Facebook 
RapiD." but I couldn't see buildings come through only roads. RapiD 
would probably be one of the easier options for bringing into OSM.


Areas which are already well mapped building wise best to leave what's 
there, and area where people are actively mapping with local knowledge 
and survey's best to leave what's there, but for general areas with 
almost no buildings mapped, I think it makes sense to manually import 
this to provide a good base level of coverage.


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Re: [talk-au] Microsoft Australian building footprints

[Andrew Harvey]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 18:39, Daniel O'Connor 
wrote:

> and after a bit of digging came across this ODBL data:
> https://github.com/microsoft/AustraliaBuildingFootprints
>
> As fun as hand tracing data is; I'd be pretty keen to swap to small scale
> imports of this, suburb by suburb in my area.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Microsoft_Building_Footprint_Data
> details the data in more general terms, and links to a few import proposals.
>
> Anyone feel like exploring and validating the quality of the data in their
> areas?
>

Thanks for posting, I didn't realise they had released something for
Australia. It says "The data will also be made available in Facebook
RapiD." but I couldn't see buildings come through only roads. RapiD would
probably be one of the easier options for bringing into OSM.

Areas which are already well mapped building wise best to leave what's
there, and area where people are actively mapping with local knowledge and
survey's best to leave what's there, but for general areas with almost no
buildings mapped, I think it makes sense to manually import this to provide
a good base level of coverage.
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Re: [Talk-es] Herramienta para mejorar los procesos de creación de consensos en la comunidad

[César Martínez Izquierdo]

Hola Marcos, no sé si lo que planteé sonaba a "me da palo cambiar", pero no
era lo que quería transmitir. Más bien, era algo como "soy realista,
conozco el nivel de esfuerzo que puedo dedicar al proyecto y el tiempo que
me dejan el resto de mis obligaciones, y sé que no voy a poder integrar
otra herramienta en mis rutinas".

Eso no quiere decir que no se pueda hacer ese cambio. Si hay suficientes
personas con interés en mover los debates a otra herramienta, más de las
que no lo tienen, creo que se puede implementar el cambio y si algunas
personas nos perdemos los debates puede compensar porque otras personas con
más tiempo van a ser más eficientes en su colaboración.

E insisto, por mucho que a ti una herramienta te parezca muy buena y que
técnicamente sea superior, hay otros aspectos no tan evidentes que la
pueden hacer menos buena (en mi caso, simplemente tener que entrar a una
plataforma extra).

La clave es que haya muchas más personas interesadas en el cambio que en no
hacer el cambio.

Saludos,
César

On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 16:34,  wrote:

> Hola César, está claro que si inicio un debate en Loomio para hablar
> conmigo mismo mientros los demás lo hacen por la lista esto no tiene
> sentido alguno. La palabra clave aquí es el "si".  Si como dices, la
> comunidad tiene costumbres y rutinas totalmente inamovibles, si no hay
> ganas ni energía de probar cosas nuevas para mejorar, entonces esta
> propuesta tiene que fracasar sin remedio. Pero viendo el entusiasmo que hay
> para mejorar OSM me cuesta creer que sea así y por esto sigo dando la lata
> con este tema.
>
> También es cierto que viendo las respuestas noto ciertas reservas, cierto
> negativismo sin  siquiera dar la oportunidad. Una cosa sería que se dijera
> "Oye, tus críticas de los procesos existentes no me parecen justificas,
> creo que tal y como funcionamos estamos de maravilla. Objetivamente no creo
> que hay necesidad de cambiar nada". Ok, lo acepto. En cambio me parecería
> triste si la opinión generalizada fuera "En realidad me da igual lo bueno
> que puede resultar el cambio, me pega palo cambiar así que dejémoslo". No
> pretendo que se cambie nuestra vida de un día para otro y sin vuelta atrás,
> solo quiero animar a probar durante un tiempo algo que tiene mucho
> potencial (y que otros grupos de OSM ya están usando) para ver si realmente
> puede solucionar los problemas que tenemos.
>
> Respecto a tus dudas técnicas estas son las opciones de notificaciónes:
>
>-
>
>*Daily summary email* - Enabling this setting means each morning you
>will get an email with any activity that you missed the day before. This
>email provides an easy routine for staying up to date with Loomio activity.
>-
>
>*Subscribe on participation* - Enabling this setting means when you
>participate in a thread, all further activity will be emailed to you
>immediately.
>-
>
>*Mentions & Replies* - Enabling this setting means when someone wants
>to get your attention, they can @mention your name in a comment, which will
>notify you. We recommend you leave this setting on, so you’ll get an email
>when this happens.
>
> Estoy pensando que a lo mejor se puede crear un usuario para la lista y de
> esta manera todos los comentarios automáticamente entrarían en la lista. Lo
> probaré.
>
> Subscribo tu última frase: Si se decidiera no usarlo para debatir me
> parecería optimo que al menos lo usaramos para votar.
>
> Marcos
>
> Am 19.10.2020 10:32, schrieb César Martínez Izquierdo:
>
> Hola Marcos, yo tampoco soy partidario de sacar los debates de la lista.
> Hay que tener en cuenta que por muchas ventajas técnicas que tengan otras
> herramientas, si no consigues migrar allí a la comunidad, te estás dejando
> por el camino lo más valioso del proyecto. Y cuando digo migrarla, me
> refiero a migrar sus hábitos, que es lo más difícil de todo. Las personas
> tenemos unas rutinas y es difícil cambiarlas. Desde luego yo no entraría a
> otra herramienta a propósito para seguir los debates, tanto por falta de
> tiempo como porque no es una herramienta integrada en mis rutinas sociales
> y de trabajo y por tanto no me acordaría de entrar en ella al cabo de unos
> días.
>
> Así que no me parece una buena idea migrar a Loomio salvo que se pueda
> seguir y participar de los debates desde el correo. Para mi sería aceptable
> tener que entrar en la plataforma para votar.
>
> Saludos.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 at 17:50,  wrote:
>
>> Hola.
>>
>> Veo que estamos llegando al grano. Sé que con la lista es posible
>> debatir, solicitar una votación o realizar encuestas. También es posible
>> viajar 5 personas en un 600 desde Barcelona a Madrid. Y si  los que viajan
>> mantienen un talante constructivo sin opiniones enconadas ni enfrentadas -
>> mejor, porque si no... tela. Lo que intento destacar es que podemos viajar
>> en autocar, llegando antes y con menos estrés. Además de esta forma incluso
>> más gente, que antes pensaba que hacer 

Re: [Talk-transit] bus=yes opinion

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-transit]

Ad thread) bus=yes is not needed if
highway=bus_stop is present

Also public_transport=platform is not
needed anyway, like entire failed pt2
19 paź 2020, 17:54 od mikl...@gmail.com:

> On Saturday, 11 July 2020 23:30:29 HKT Snusmumriken wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2020-07-11 at 02:33 -0300, Agustin Rissoli wrote:
>> > What are your opinion of adding bus=yes along with
>> > public_transport=platform + highway=bus_stop?
>>
>> In the presence of highway=bus_stop I think the bus_yes tag is
>> totally unnecessary.
>>
>>
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>
> I consider the following scenario:
>
> 1. There is no physical stop but it is a generally accepted place to board 
> and 
> alight buses. I map public_transport=platform and bus=yes but not 
> highway=bus_stop
>
> 2. There is a physical bus stop pole but there are no longer any buses using 
> it. I only map highway=bus_stop but not bus=yes there.
>
> Michael
>
> -- 
> Sent from KMail
>

In my opinion:Ad 1) it is also highway=bus_stopAd 2) that would be 
disused:highway=bus_stop
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Re: [talk-au] Microsoft Australian building footprints

[Andrew Harvey]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 at 18:39, Daniel O'Connor 
wrote:

> Hi folks,
> I was wondering how mapbox had coverage of areas that hadn't been traced
> into OSM; and after a bit of digging came across this ODBL data:
> https://github.com/microsoft/AustraliaBuildingFootprints
>

Not relevant to OSM here, but just wanted to point out that Mapbox's
buildings in Australia are from PSMA not Microsoft ->
https://docs.mapbox.com/vector-tiles/reference/mapbox-streets-v8/
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[talk-au] Microsoft Australian building footprints

[Daniel O'Connor]

Hi folks,
I was wondering how mapbox had coverage of areas that hadn't been traced
into OSM; and after a bit of digging came across this ODBL data:
https://github.com/microsoft/AustraliaBuildingFootprints

As fun as hand tracing data is; I'd be pretty keen to swap to small scale
imports of this, suburb by suburb in my area.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Microsoft_Building_Footprint_Data
details the data in more general terms, and links to a few import proposals.

Anyone feel like exploring and validating the quality of the data in their
areas?
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Industrial & port areas

[rodeo .be]

Hello Vincent,

adding "internal features" sounds a great idea to me. Will increase the
utility of the map.

One point of attention, I would avoid adding security measures (fences,
access buildings, gates, security cameras etc).
Depending on the site (Doel, BASF), this information is protected by law.

Kind regards
Maarten

Op do 15 okt. 2020 om 20:09 schreef Vincent Van Eyken <
vincent.vaney...@gmail.com>:

> Following some open notes [1] in the Antwerp port area, I have some
> questions about mapping in industrial environments:
>
>1. In general, how should we handle features within (semi)public to
>private industrial zones: e.g. port areas, big company plants etc. ? Those
>features (ways, buildings, parkings, infrastructure) often have varying
>degrees of “public” access or visibility (aerial imagery and/or public
>signposts, media…), and range of usefulness for a specific or general
>public, e.g. orientation, routing, emergency situations…
>I suppose it is basically up to the local mapper’s judgment if and to
>what extent features get mapped. But maybe some of you have more experience
>in this matter or can point to clear guidelines or “best practice” examples
>for future reference?
>
>2. For example this specific note [2] about how to map terrain
>blocks/sectors (“blokvelden”) within a major industrial plant (BASF).
>Questions arise:
>
>
>- Should these be included in the OSM database in the first place?
>- If so: only after asking and informing the company about permission,
>licensing, etc.?
>- If so: with which tags; e.g. in this case “ref=” and
>“place=plot”?
>
>
>
>1. A related case is the Port of Antwerp’s system for port/quay
>numbering (haven-/kaainummers). Mind you this is an old topic [3], which
>was never really resolved, I guess? However, the added value of these
>numbers is quite obvious: they are useful for land and waterway navigation,
>often better-known (at least within the “port community”) and used more
>frequently/easily than the conventional (street+housenumber) addresses,
>often visible on highway destination signs, warehouses, gates, quaysides…
>and mentioned in virtually every company’s contact details.
>So despite the potential usefulness, the complete number set is not
>(yet) present in OSM and in any case not as consistently tagged nodes.
>Currently the data are publicly accessible to download, e.g. to be
>used as satnav POIs [4]. I assume this might facilitate a straightforward
>import, if they are released as open data.
>
> Similar questions:
>
>- Should they be in the OSM database?
>- If so: how: through a documented import?
>- If so: how to tag?
>
> Regards
> Vincent / QuercE
>
> [1] e.g.: https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/582619
>
> [2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2380581
>
> [3]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-be/2010-November/001600.html
> and: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/dancelis/diary/12282
>
> [4]
> https://www.portofantwerp.com/nl/my-poa/services/gps-module-antwerpport?fbclid=IwAR0OqZUkYOiSdPu8aMsZHkzAgIKqJoxEJcZf4HV1lb3bFBP84J0IP6UpAiQ
> and:
> https://portaal-stadantwerpen.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/574c21e24b9b4fd8b36a52df5d8e4293_590
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] waymarked or not?

[Tim Couwelier]

'The future is virtual'. Yes and no.

Personally, when I go walking - I prefer to.. walk. Not keep an eye on my
phone for the route all the time.
I do love having them available virtually - the majority of my signposted
walks I've been able to find on RouteYou.

But when do I use the app?
1) When we're uncertain we're on the right track
2) If the kids start nagging 'how far do we have to go still'.

I can see cycling routes (with a phone mounted on a steering wheel) go this
route much faster. But for walking - I'd like to think signposted routes
very much have their merit.
Also, could be epic drama if cell phone battery dies along the way.



Op ma 19 okt. 2020 om 23:06 schreef Wouter Hamelinck <
wouter.hameli...@gmail.com>:

> Totally agree with that.
>
> I also think that the future will be virtual, but don't think that it will
> come from a website with a predefined network. I think that in the future
> you will just insert some parameters (or the parameters have been deduced
> from other routes that you liked) and a personal route will be generated
> automatically. Hopefully based on OSM data.
> For me it is a lot more important to have the underlying path right, than
> to copy routes from all kinds of websites. Especially in forested regions,
> it is incredible how many paths are still missing. Or how many that don't
> exist have been mapped by armchair mappers. We should really focus on the
> basis in my opinion.
>
> wouter
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 10:38 PM Sander Deryckere 
> wrote:
>
>> If the virtual routes are available under a strict copyright, there's
>> nothing we can map. And if they are available under a free copyright, we
>> add very little value by adding them to OSM.
>>
>> So I believe they don't belong in the main OSM db, but rather in a side
>> project (a project made for routes, prrhaps something umap like?).
>>
>> Op ma 19 okt. 2020 21:38 schreef Stijn Rombauts via Talk-be <
>> talk-be@openstreetmap.org>:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> That's also what I would expect: virtual is the future. Installing all
>>> those signposts and keeping them in order takes a lot of time and money. If
>>> the tourism agencies see that they can virtualize them away without losing
>>> tourists, they will. We will indeed lose relevance if we don't go along.
>>> By the way, if we stick to ground truth, we'll also have to remove most
>>> of the cycle highways because a lot of them haven't been waymarked yet and
>>> are still virtual. We just copied the information available on
>>> https://fietssnelwegen.be/ (and went even a lot further with those so
>>> called 'alternatives' which are still just somebody's fantasy in my
>>> opinion). So, in fact we already did decide that there is a place for
>>> virtual routes in OSM...
>>> But indeed: we will have to make a thorough choice in the official
>>> operators AND their choices.
>>>
>>> Some further comments on other reactions:
>>>
>>> No, it's not harder to keep the virtual routes up to date. It's even
>>> easier. You don't have to go out to check if there are still signposts or
>>> you don't have to buy a map or check if it's still for sale. If the route
>>> is available on the 'source-website', it exists, otherwise not. We only
>>> need to know which is the 'source-website', so we don't rely on a
>>> (outdated) copy. For routes like the Randonnées en Boucle which are only
>>> available in a book, it's as dubious as a map: is the book still in print
>>> or not?
>>>
>>> Adding virtual routes won't make it more 'messy' than it already is. Who
>>> checks regularly (every few years) whether the hiking/cycle/... routes in
>>> OSM haven't changed in the meantime or still exist? E.g. how long did it
>>> take before the outdated LF-routes got removed?
>>>
>>> To Pierre and company: adding waymarked routes to OSM by using only
>>> gpx-tracks (if that is what you're doing) is even worse than adding virtual
>>> routes, because you have no guarantee that those gpx-tracks correspond to
>>> the ground truth. I know from experience. Also maps which correspond to the
>>> ground truth are rare. (But go ahead, I don't mind what you're doing.)
>>> And indeed, we can't even keep up with the waymarked routes, but we
>>> could as well use that as an argument to give up mapping routes completely.
>>>
>>> "A route, right now, is something you can expect to see waymarked." I
>>> feel we'll have to let go of this. "If someone starts mapping virtual
>>> routes, they should definitely be put in their own data model." They're
>>> still local/regional/... hiking/cycle/... routes. Adding some tag like
>>> 'virtual=yes" on the route relations and nodes should suffice. (It will be
>>> a bit more complicated because a node can be both a virtual hiking node and
>>> a real cycle node.)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> StijnRR
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 19, 2020, 07:34:48 PM GMT+2, Steven Clays <
>>> steven.cl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Tendency in Toerisme Vlaanderen > ALL hiking nodes will go virtual