Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Use of OSM screenshot in a Channel 4 production?

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Ryan

If it bothers you then just look for the production company in the credits
and drop them an email reminding them that OSM should be credited.

Thanks
Rob

On Wed, 6 Dec 2023, 14:41 Ryan Underwood,  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
> *(sending again as I tried to attach an image last time).*
> Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but I noticed a direct screenshot from OSM of
> Coventry, with some text overlay in a Channel 4 documentary on YouTube,
> with no attribution. There is also no credit at the end as stipulated in
> the Attribution Guidelines:
>
> *For fictional productions or where the map is not the focus of the
> production, attribution may be given on the map, in end credits, or, if the
> video is distributed via a digital format that includes a description,
> within the description. When attributing via the end credits or the
> description, the URL to openstreetmap.org/copyright
>  must be included.*
>
> There is also a clause about "Incidental footage" giving an example of
> filming a person using OSM on their laptop. But I wonder if, given this is
> a produced graphic for the production, such a rule still applies?
>
> Just food for thought.
>
> The production is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdHYM7QT9kw and the
> OSM map is visible from 2:35.
>
> Screenshot of the use here:
> https://i.imgur.com/ixdk8eJ.png
>
> Cheers,
> Ryan.
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] @MappaMercia on Twitter

[Rob Nickerson]

I should still have access. I used to manage it but gave up. Happy to pass
this on to someone else if they'd like to take over.

Thanks
Rob

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023, 20:08 Andy Mabbett,  wrote:

> Who has access to post on the @MappaMercia Twitter account? Is anyone
> monitoring it?
>
> I included it in a post addressed to Sandwell Highways
> (@sandwellroads), part of Sandwell MBC:
>
>https://twitter.com/pigsonthewing/status/1665680228226588672
>
> notifying them that they are using OSM data without attribution; but
> then noticed the account hasn't posted since 2018.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Elmley/Hockley Brook

[Rob Nickerson]

Alex,

The walkthrough the first time you use the iD editor is also good. If you
struggle do let me know. Happy to jump on a call and show you the basics.

Thanks
Rob


On Wed, 5 Apr 2023, 13:33 Andy Robinson,  wrote:

> H Alex,
>
>
>
> Welcome to OSM.
>
>
>
> You could start with
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners%27_guide as well as other
> great information contained on the OSM wiki.
>
>
>
> The main thing to remember is that unlike Google, OSM cannot accept any
> data from copyrighted sources or data that sits under a licence that is not
> compatible with OSM. Our main mapping sources are the imagery layers
> available through the various OSM editing software and personal knowledge
> or survey.
>
>
>
> Happy mapping
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy (blackadder)
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* FORD, Alexander (THE SHREWSBURY AND TELFORD HOSPITAL NHS TRUST)
> via Talk-gb-westmidlands 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2023 10:19 PM
> *To:* Kra Ko via Talk-gb-westmidlands <
> talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org>; Kra Ko 
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Elmley/Hockley Brook
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> I am a experienced Google Mapper with two million views of my edits of our
> local Shrewsbury and Telford Hospitals.  However I now need to concentrate
> on making changes to OSM.
>
>
>
> Is their any guides to starting out in OSM or local workshops to assist
> those starting out?
>
>
>
> Thank you in advance for any advice given
>
>
>
> Alex
>
> Sustainable Travel Planner for the NHS.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* Kra Ko via Talk-gb-westmidlands <
> talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2023 8:18 PM
> *To:* talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org <
> talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org>
> *Subject:* [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Elmley/Hockley Brook
>
>
>
> [You don't often get email from talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org.
> Learn why this is important at
> https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ]
>
> This message originated from outside of NHSmail. Please do not click links
> or open attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is
> safe.
>
> Hi,
>
> It is about the place where the Hockley Brook takes the name of Elmley
> Brook.
>
> On osm I have created this relation :
> https://gbr01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Frelation%2F15648926=05%7C01%7Calexander.ford1%40nhs.net%7C7ee5cd63940b492f1acf08db2fc177e2%7C37c354b285b047f5b22207b48d774ee3%7C0%7C0%7C638156280209957976%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=rsHya75V0SzFJJDl5XOMI1eTkmjfYEp3cPf%2Fltz490M%3D=0
>
> On a map I found this :
> https://gbr01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmaps.nls.uk%2Fgeo%2Fexplore%2F%23zoom%3D15.0%26lat%3D52.36130%26lon%3D-2.15646%26layers%3D117746212%26b%3D9=05%7C01%7Calexander.ford1%40nhs.net%7C7ee5cd63940b492f1acf08db2fc177e2%7C37c354b285b047f5b22207b48d774ee3%7C0%7C0%7C638156280209957976%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=rWOIYnmJQx421%2FWBhNsewLoe7myYit88zl%2FVWOmzL%2FE%3D=0
>
> with one name at the bottom left and the other name at the top right (I
> mean on my screen, I hope it will work for you).
>
> So I was thinking the node of the changing name was at the confluence with
> this stream :
> https://gbr01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Frelation%2F15652436=05%7C01%7Calexander.ford1%40nhs.net%7C7ee5cd63940b492f1acf08db2fc177e2%7C37c354b285b047f5b22207b48d774ee3%7C0%7C0%7C638156280209957976%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=bOKiShIVwFON3Vs5MoAs23gg7Qa74JU%2FiV%2Bapys5UkA%3D=0
>
> Can someone confirm that ?
>
> And do you know the name of this stream r15652436 (perhaps Elmley Brook ?)
>
> Best regards
>
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>
>
>
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> **
>
> This message may contain confidential information. If you are not the
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> may be unlawful).
> Thank 

Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Using lidar data

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Mark,

I had a quick look and could not see enough detail to detect dropped kerbs.
The best spatial resolution they have is 25cm and all Lidar is accurate
vertically to +/- 15cm.

I looked on their preview website. You will need to click the drop arrows
in the layer selector 2 times and tick the boxes to bring the layer into
the map. The 25cm layer is only available in a few GB locations.

https://environment.data.gov.uk/DefraDataDownload/?Mode=OGCPreview=https%3A%2F%2Fenvironment.data.gov.uk%2Fspatialdata%2Flidar-composite-digital-surface-model-dsm-25cm%2Fwms

Thanks
Rob

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022, 09:16 Mark Croft Redditch Linux Mint, <
mark.croft@gmail.com> wrote:

> I remember that there a free data set available via open data rules from
> government
>
>
> What his can use it? Would it high enough too filter on drop kurbs? Thx ..
> I think ordinate survey that can download it from..
> Complete uk.dataset..
>
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.

[Rob Nickerson]

I'd use:

motor_vehicle=delivery (this seems to be the right tag for the UK's "for
loading" rule
psv=yes (see note below)
disabled=yes (this seems to be the right tag for blue badge)

You need a conditional access tag for the time restriction:

motor_vehicle:conditional=permit @ (19:00-06:00); delivery @ (19:00-06:00)

This overrides the motor_vehicle=delivery tag when the condition is met
(between 7pm and 6am) but as it's not just authorised vehicles allowed,
I've also restated that delivery is allowed at this time. I've used
"permit" as the closest tag I could find for "authorised vehicles".
Personally I might be tempted to skip this conditional tag entirely as it
doesn't answer the question "who is authorised" and any authorised vehicles
hopefully know they are without having to check OpenStreetMap first!

Maybe add emergency=yes as well just to indicate that the road is
physically large enough to cater for these vehicles. I'm assuming they can
ignore all legal restrictions.

Note on PSV:
The psv=yes tag is equivalent to the combination of bus=yes, taxi=yes and a
couple others related to public transport (minibus, on demand / on call
public services)

Best regards
Rob

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 22:51 Andy Mabbett,  wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 20:55, Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
>
> > If you can explain the restriction again, I'll see what tags I can
> suggest. I can try to
> > capture any time based rules too.
>
> Thank you.
>
> The sign reads:
>
> * "Pedestrian and cycle zone
> * [Image: no motor vehicles]
> * "Except [Image: Blue Badge] buses, taxis and for loading at any time"
> * "and authorised vehicles 7pm-6am".
>
> It can be seen here:
>
> https://goo.gl/maps/GTHTDxVeyugNZeKp7
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> --
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> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.

[Rob Nickerson]

I've struggled to follow the details of the restriction but Brian's change
is a good improvement. As in, remove the access tag completely (roads
without access tag are assumed to be access=yes) and then start locking
down for just motor vehicles (with the motor_vehicle tag).

If you can explain the restriction again, I'll see what tags I can suggest.
I can try to capture any time based rules too.

P.s. was trying to link to the diagram. This used to exist on the English
language page years ago but doesn't anymore. It's still on the German
language page or directly available at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Access_hierarchy_simple2.png#mw-jump-to-license

Rob

On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 20:39 Andy Mabbett,  wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 19:44, Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
> >
> > No it's the other way round. More specific tags override the general
> tags.
> >
> > So in the example
> >
> > access=destination
> > motor_vehicle=no
> >
> > The first tag marks all transport modes (including foot) as destination
> only, and motor_vehicle then changes this for that specific subset of
> transportation modes to "no". In effect this is saying motorised vehicles
> are not allowed, while non motorised vehicles, (horses) and pedestrians are
> only allowed when going to their destination.
>
> Thank you. In that case, we still have an issue, because some motor
> vehicles are allowed (and pedestrians may traverse these roads for any
> purpose).
>
> I'm not clear how this should be tagged.
>
> --
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> @pigsonthewing
> https://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Access to High Street, Birmingham for blue badge holders.

[Rob Nickerson]

No it's the other way round. More specific tags override the general tags.

So in the example

access=destination
motor_vehicle=no

The first tag marks all transport modes (including foot) as destination
only, and motor_vehicle then changes this for that specific subset of
transportation modes to "no". In effect this is saying motorised vehicles
are not allowed, while non motorised vehicles, (horses) and pedestrians are
only allowed when going to their destination.

Simplified Hierarchy diagram:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:access#/media/File%3AAccess_hierarchy_simple2.png

Best regards
Rob


On Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 12:55 Andy Mabbett,  wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Mar 2022 at 09:33, Brian Prangle  wrote:
> >
> > I've added the 7 disabled spaces round the corner on Albert Street and
> New Meeting
> > Street.
>
> Thank you, but I think your edit may have failed to save (or someone
> has since deleted them). I can find no such objects (I can see you
> node in High Street).
>
> > I've used access=destination
>
> I'm still confused, as we now have roads with:
>
>access=destination
>motor_vehicle=no
>
> Is there an implicit priority whereby the former overrides the latter?
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> https://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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[Talk-GB] Electric forecourt

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

I saw on Fully Charged (YouTube channel) that there is now a electric
vehicle charging forecourt. Unlike others, this is not a couple of charging
points added to an existing petrol station or slapped down in a carpark.
This is a full on electric version of a petrol station (without petrol as
an option).

https://www.gridserve.com/braintree-overview/

Feels like a good time to review how we map them. Do we have the right tags
available?

The wiki has a lot but it seems a bit jumbled. For example, I believe this
site has CCS socket chargers at various kW sizes. Our current tagging
scheme doesn't look like it allows for that. Is this an issue?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcharging_station

Best regards
Rob
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[Talk-GB] NLS maps

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

A few points of clarification related to the other thread.

1. I am Rob, ex OSM UK Director (not that that makes me any more special
than anyone else in our community) and not "Rob from OSMF".

2. National Library of Scotland keep the OSM wiki page up to date
themselves. Chris Fleet is their curator and you can see all his edits to
that page in the history [1].

3. Any URLs not on that page should be checked with them before proceeding.
I am happy to put the request to them if you like.

4. NLS have noted two reasons why some of their content is held back. The
first change came a few years ago and was brought about because they had
some profitable organisations free-loading off their tile server. Hence the
introduced the subscription API mentioned on the wiki page. The second
reason comes down to the way in which the maps get digitised. To speed up
this process some of the digitisation is done by / financed by / supported
in some way by third party organisations. At times this puts some
additional restrictions on the use of the resultant tiles.

5. A debate about is it copyright, database rights or something else is not
going to get us anywhere. NLS are very kind to us and we shouldn't damage
that relationship. The best way to do that it to follow their instruction.
We can pick this up again in a couple years if we have concerns about the
copyright/licence/etc.

6. Am not sure why the OS came in to the discussion (other than them being
the source of the map all those years ago).

I hope that helps clear a few things up. Happy mapping (without using this
source).

Best regards,
*Rob*

[1]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=National_Library_of_Scotland=history
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK's first tile layer

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

A few more tiles added to help test the alignment. I've added the following
locations:

# Colchester
bbox = (0.8895, 51.8831, 0.9190, 51.8974)
render_tiles(bbox, mapfile, tile_dir, 17, 17 , "Colchester")

# Flamborough
bbox = (-0.132106, 54.102325, -0.111807, 54.121253)
render_tiles(bbox, mapfile, tile_dir, 17, 17 , "Flamborough")

# Stornoway
bbox = (-6.414124, 58.198201, -6.250257, 58.238161)
render_tiles(bbox, mapfile, tile_dir, 17, 17 , "Stornoway")

# Scilly
bbox = (-6.331023, 49.909491, -6.287335, 49.928125)
render_tiles(bbox, mapfile, tile_dir, 17, 17 , "Scilly")

Just zoom level 17 for these areas for now.

These tiles were created without first converting from British National
Grid to WGS 84 (lat/lon). Instead I pass Mapnik data in British National
Grid projection and Mapnik transforms it to the web projection. The good
news is that it hasn't altered the final result and that this still matches
the result from the Land Registry's WMS service. So we can say that we are
transforming the same way that their WMS service is.

The bad news however is that if I used the link Adrian provided [1] to
transform to ETRS89 and compare to the coordinates that I can read out in
JOSM, it does indeed look like we have an error. For example in Scilly,
checking just one point, I get an adjustment of 4.8 meters which is almost
identical to the 4.7m error that Adrian highlighted.

So in summary, more work is required. I will keep chipping away at this.
Fortunately the Scottish data is published in both ETRS89 and British
National Grid so I can check those in detail (assuming the Scottish data
has been transformed correctly).

It does beg the question, what do we want to map to as our reference point?
My knowledge on these matters is very limited and based on just one article
[2]. My reading of this is that ETRS is a reference system for Europe but
that if you want to adjust to the International version then you get the
problem of the continental plate shifting 2.5cm per year. ETRS89 dates from
1989 so 31 years later we have a (31 x 2.5 = ) 77.5cm shift. Noticeable but
nowhere near as bad as the 4.7m issue with the crude transformation from
the british national grid.

[1] https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/gps/transformation/
[2]
https://novatel.com/support/known-solutions/wgs84-to-etrs89-datum-transformations

Best regards,
*Rob*


On Fri, 23 Oct 2020 at 21:53, Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Thanks for this.
>
> I'm still confused as to what exactly I need but at least I can run some
> tests using these places. If it helps anyone, below is the xml we are using
> in Mapnik. The Map srs is from the OpenStreetMap default render and relates
> to the web projection. The Layer SRS is the standard for WGS84.
>
> The intent going forward is to not transform from the british national
> grid to WGS84 before feeding in to Mapnik. Instead I will give Mapnik the
> raw data and the relevant Layer srs. I believe this is "+proj=tmerc
> +lat_0=49 +lon_0=-2 +k=0.9996012717 +x_0=40 +y_0=-10 +ellps=airy
> +datum=OSGB36 +units=m +no_defs" based on the link at
> https://spatialreference.org/ref/epsg/osgb-1936-british-national-grid/ I
> will test this but if you or others have feedback at this stage, please let
> me know.
>
> 
>
>   
> <Rule>
>   <LineSymbolizer stroke="rgb(100%,0%,0%)" stroke-width="4" />
> </Rule>
>   
>
>   
> My Style
> 
>   shape
>   york.shp
> 
>   
>
> 
>
> *Rob*
>
>
> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 20:02, Adrian  wrote:
>
>> The Ordnance Survey provides a transformation between OSGB36 and ETRS. It
>> is described on this page
>> https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/gps/transformation/ and on the pages
>> linked from there. The transformation is definitive. In other words, OSGB36
>> is redefined as being what you get when you apply the transformation to
>> sets of ETRS co-ordinates. This must mean that if you compare an OS 1:1250
>> National Grid plan, with an older version of the plan from the era of
>> OSTN02, features may have shifted slightly.
>>
>> The transformation involves a mathematical transformation, and an
>> adjustment based on a look-up table, to make the result match the errors in
>> the old triangulation system. The OS provides applications to do the
>> transformation, both ways, for a range of platforms. It also provides
>> source code, the look-up table, and details of the mathematical
>> transformation.
>>
>> JOSM handles projections using proj. If you want to know what JOSM does
>> with EPSG:27700, you need to know how it is defined in proj. The source
>> code of JOSM includes the OSTN02 look-up table 

Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK's first tile layer

[Rob Nickerson]

Thanks for this.

I'm still confused as to what exactly I need but at least I can run some
tests using these places. If it helps anyone, below is the xml we are using
in Mapnik. The Map srs is from the OpenStreetMap default render and relates
to the web projection. The Layer SRS is the standard for WGS84.

The intent going forward is to not transform from the british national grid
to WGS84 before feeding in to Mapnik. Instead I will give Mapnik the raw
data and the relevant Layer srs. I believe this is "+proj=tmerc +lat_0=49
+lon_0=-2 +k=0.9996012717 +x_0=40 +y_0=-10 +ellps=airy
+datum=OSGB36 +units=m +no_defs" based on the link at
https://spatialreference.org/ref/epsg/osgb-1936-british-national-grid/ I
will test this but if you or others have feedback at this stage, please let
me know.



  

  

  

  
My Style

  shape
  york.shp

  



*Rob*


On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 20:02, Adrian  wrote:

> The Ordnance Survey provides a transformation between OSGB36 and ETRS. It
> is described on this page
> https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/gps/transformation/ and on the pages
> linked from there. The transformation is definitive. In other words, OSGB36
> is redefined as being what you get when you apply the transformation to
> sets of ETRS co-ordinates. This must mean that if you compare an OS 1:1250
> National Grid plan, with an older version of the plan from the era of
> OSTN02, features may have shifted slightly.
>
> The transformation involves a mathematical transformation, and an
> adjustment based on a look-up table, to make the result match the errors in
> the old triangulation system. The OS provides applications to do the
> transformation, both ways, for a range of platforms. It also provides
> source code, the look-up table, and details of the mathematical
> transformation.
>
> JOSM handles projections using proj. If you want to know what JOSM does
> with EPSG:27700, you need to know how it is defined in proj. The source
> code of JOSM includes the OSTN02 look-up table (15MB), but it can't be in
> the jar (also 15MB), so I don't know how that works.
>
> Rob asked about position errors from the Helmert transformation without a
> look-up table. Here are some examples.
> Larger errors
> Place error, m
> St Kilda   4.9
> Scilly 4.7
> Lizard Point   4.1
> Butt of Lewis  3.2
> King's Lynn2.7
> Mallaig2.6
> Flamborough Head   2.4
> Colchester 2.4
> Plymouth   2.4
> Nottingham 2.3
> Anglesey   2.1
> Northampton2.0
> North Foreland 1.9
> Isle of Man S  1.9
> Carmarthen 1.9
> Smaller errors
> St Catherine's Pt  1.4
> Carlisle   0.8
> Edinburgh  0.6
> Aberdeen   1.8
> Thurso 1.6
> Orkney 1.0
> Foula (Shetland)   1.2
> The errors are particularly small near Bristol, Edinburgh and Fair Isle.
> They exceed 2m in South Devon, Cornwall, East Anglia, Nottinghamshire,
> Lincolnshire, the East Riding of Yorkshire, Pembrokeshire, Anglesey and
> Western Scotland.
>
> +1 for referencing GB to ETRS.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK's first tile layer

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

To address this and some of the other questions:

>Can JOSM and iD display Mapbox .pbf vector tiles?
I don't think JOSM can which is a big shame as it would make it much easier
to host these sort of layers with minimal overhead.

>ensure any transformation from OSGB grid coordinates to WGS84 is accurate
enough
Yes indeed. Currently I used QGIS to transform the data for York however I
see that Mapnik can do the transform itself. For a complete GB dataset I
intend to download all files and bring them together to pass to Mapnik. It
probably then makes sense to have Mapnik do the transform. Any details on
what transformation I should be using would be much appreciated. Likewise
if you know a location that gets a big error if done wrong, that would help
me check.

>Thinner lines could work better
Yes, I think so too.

>consider increasing the max zoom a notch as well
Hopefully the new OSM UK board can investigate that as it will need a
beefier server so would push costs up.

>Are the numbers in wms tiles UPRNs?
My understanding is that they are not. That level of coordination would be
amazing but we're not there with Open Data yet!

P.S. If anyone is aware of the equivalent data for Northern Ireland, Isle
of Man or the Channel Islands, please let me know.

Best regards,
*Rob*


On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 at 08:16, Jez Nicholson  wrote:

> Nice one. I've been wanting to do this for ages.
>
> Re: file size. Can JOSM and iD display Mapbox .pbf vector tiles? These
> would be smaller.
>
> On Sat, 17 Oct 2020, 00:22 Rob Nickerson, 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Just in time for the AGM, I have just published OSM UK's first tile
>> layer. No don't get too excited it is not a full map render. Instead I have
>> produced a very simple tiling of the Land Registry polygon data now that
>> this is under the OGL Open Data Licence. My view is that this is a good
>> layer to align our mapping too - i.e. when tracing from imagery we should
>> first align the imagery to the Land Registry polygon layer before tracing
>> from the imagery.
>>
>> The tile URL for JOSM is:
>> tms[13,17]:http://tiles.osmuk.org/LRpolygons/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png
>>
>> And for now this is *York only* as an example.
>>
>> Feedback that I would appreciate:
>>
>>- Is this worthwhile?
>>- Do you agree that it makes sense for us to all try to align our
>>mapping to this (i.e. apply imagery offsets to align imagery to this 
>> before
>>tracing)?
>>- The style is very simple with just a 4 pixel red line. Is this
>>sufficient? What changes can be made?
>>- Any tips on how to keep the PNG file sizes as small as possible?
>>For now I am using the Mapnik rule "png8:c=2:t=1:m=o". Is there anything
>>that can yield smaller file sizes?
>>- What max zoom is worthwhile? Currently it goes to 17, is this
>>enough?
>>
>> Our plan would be to pre-render all the tiles and host them on our site.
>> The data doesn't change much so we would only re-render on request or once
>> a year. My estimate is that we'd need 35GB for tiles to zoom level 17, and
>> 133 GB to get everything to zoom 18. Our current server is on the small
>> side with just 512MB memory and a 100GB disk allowance. It is unsuitable
>> for on the fly rendering and we'd need more disk space to get the level 18
>> zoom. A beefier server is of course possible but any bump in specs comes
>> with an equal bump in costs so worth checking this is worthwhile before
>> proceeding.
>>
>> P.S. The Land Registry themselves host this data on a WMS service rather
>> than a TMS (tile) service. This makes it possible to zoom much further in.
>> If you want to have a look at that detail you can use their website or
>> (temporarily) use the following URL in JOSM. Please don't use this for
>> mapping as we don't have permission to use their WMS service
>>
>> wms:
>> http://inspire.landregistry.gov.uk/inspire/ows?SERVICE=WMS=image%2Fpng=inspire%3ACP.CadastralParcel=image%2Fpng=true=1.1.1=GetMap=_FORMAT=application%2Fvnd.ogc.gml=XML&_OLSALT=0.789927776902914={proj}={bbox}={width}={height}
>> <http://inspire.landregistry.gov.uk/inspire/ows?SERVICE=WMS=image%2Fpng=inspire%3ACP.CadastralParcel=image%2Fpng=true=1.1.1=GetMap=_FORMAT=application%2Fvnd.ogc.gml=XML&_OLSALT=0.789927776902914=%7Bproj%7D=%7Bbbox%7D=%7Bwidth%7D=%7Bheight%7D>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> *Rob*
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>>
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[Talk-GB] OSM UK's first tile layer

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

Just in time for the AGM, I have just published OSM UK's first tile layer.
No don't get too excited it is not a full map render. Instead I have
produced a very simple tiling of the Land Registry polygon data now that
this is under the OGL Open Data Licence. My view is that this is a good
layer to align our mapping too - i.e. when tracing from imagery we should
first align the imagery to the Land Registry polygon layer before tracing
from the imagery.

The tile URL for JOSM is:
tms[13,17]:http://tiles.osmuk.org/LRpolygons/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png

And for now this is *York only* as an example.

Feedback that I would appreciate:

   - Is this worthwhile?
   - Do you agree that it makes sense for us to all try to align our
   mapping to this (i.e. apply imagery offsets to align imagery to this before
   tracing)?
   - The style is very simple with just a 4 pixel red line. Is this
   sufficient? What changes can be made?
   - Any tips on how to keep the PNG file sizes as small as possible? For
   now I am using the Mapnik rule "png8:c=2:t=1:m=o". Is there anything that
   can yield smaller file sizes?
   - What max zoom is worthwhile? Currently it goes to 17, is this enough?

Our plan would be to pre-render all the tiles and host them on our site.
The data doesn't change much so we would only re-render on request or once
a year. My estimate is that we'd need 35GB for tiles to zoom level 17, and
133 GB to get everything to zoom 18. Our current server is on the small
side with just 512MB memory and a 100GB disk allowance. It is unsuitable
for on the fly rendering and we'd need more disk space to get the level 18
zoom. A beefier server is of course possible but any bump in specs comes
with an equal bump in costs so worth checking this is worthwhile before
proceeding.

P.S. The Land Registry themselves host this data on a WMS service rather
than a TMS (tile) service. This makes it possible to zoom much further in.
If you want to have a look at that detail you can use their website or
(temporarily) use the following URL in JOSM. Please don't use this for
mapping as we don't have permission to use their WMS service

wms:
http://inspire.landregistry.gov.uk/inspire/ows?SERVICE=WMS=image%2Fpng=inspire%3ACP.CadastralParcel=image%2Fpng=true=1.1.1=GetMap=_FORMAT=application%2Fvnd.ogc.gml=XML&_OLSALT=0.789927776902914={proj}={bbox}={width}={height}

Best regards,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] Any UK datasets that we could use with the new (July) version of RapiD OSM editor?

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

Am a bit late to this, but hopefully some of you spotted the ESRI/Facebook
announcement in July about the new RapiD editor plus JOSM plugin. If not
see:

https://www.esri.com/arcgis-blog/products/arcgis-living-atlas/mapping/arcgis-data-support-in-osm-editors/

I've started a Loomio thread to see if there are any datasets that might be
worthy of exploring using this tool. Using Loomio so that we can make use
of the tools over there (e.g. voting, ranked preferences, etc) but will
keep an eye on any comments shared here as per usual.

https://www.loomio.org/d/vExqDZyS/which-uk-data-could-be-used-in-the-new-rapid-josm-plugin-

There is a good chance that OSM UK would be able to support with uploading
the data on the ESRI platform if we do decide that there is something worth
using. Also if data needs pre-processing (e.g. several datasets combining)
then we can explore that at the same time (similar to what we were
suggesting at the SotM workshop with combining a few of the recent open
datasets).

So yeah, let me know if you have any suggestions. :-)

Thanks you
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] Flatholm Island Boundary Problem

[Rob Nickerson]

"extremely stupid reasons" in this case relates to an very old tradition
where the Lord Mayor of Bristol 'beats the bounds' of the city by
rowing/sailing out to the islands.

As a consequence a small wedge of the city of Bristol bounds lies within
Welsh water.

You get a similar situation with Denny Island which lies within English
waters but is part of Monmouthshire.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7019663.stm

https://web.archive.org/web/20071012220607/http://www.bristol.gov.uk/ccm/content/press-releases/2007/sep/beating-bristols-water-boundary.en

Best regards
Rob
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[Talk-GB] OSM UK meeting

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

The notification of the next OSM UK general meeting has now been sent out
to all paid up members. We decided that it was best to do this as an online
event giving the ongoing situation. We've picked Saturday 17th October at
1pm.

The general meeting itself should be a relatively short affair. It includes
election of new Directors, agreement on future membership fees and a look
over the accounts. We think this will take no more than 45 minutes. Beyond
that, we don't have anything else that we need to do but are open to the
idea of extending the event if there are things that others would like to
include.

Please let us know if there are topics you would like adding to the day.
Also if you have suggestions for speakers we can certainly reach out to
them but no guarantees. The best plan is one which we can do without having
to find others input.

Thank you,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] Voting underway - UPRN and USRN tags

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

Sorry I am a bit slow moving these tag proposals on to the voting stage.
Nevertheless you can now vote on the proposals for the tags related to the
UPRN and USRN:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ref:GB:uprn
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ref:GB:usrn

Voting is scheduled to close in two weeks.

This closes out one of the actions I picked up after the SotM meeting we
held. It was great to discuss this with you during that meeting and on
talk-gb.

Thank you,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] Eat out to help out data

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

Anyone considered using the Eat out to Help out data that HMRC have
published to aid with mapping efforts?

https://github.com/hmrc/eat-out-to-help-out-establishments

Prior to this, there was a scraper that collated the data:
https://github.com/svenlatham/eatout-scraper

Thank you,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Proposal: Import EV charging point data

[Rob Nickerson]

For me, once licencing issues have been fully resolved, it comes down to
accuracy of data.

For example the TfL cycle data is great as it has been collected by ground
survey and with two photos of everything. Some other third party data has
been less accurate. At this point it becomes tricky as we've no agreed
threshold. We all know that OSM is not perfect but less clear on what level
of accuracy we require for imports.

As for tools, consider Ilya's OSM Conflator tool. Works well for node data.

Rob
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[OSM-talk-ie] Fwd: UPRN tag proposal page

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

There has been a release of some additional Ordnance Survey open data over
in England, Wales and Scotland - specifically the Unique Property Reference
Number (UPRN) and Unique Street Reference Number (USRN). This has led to a
question over how best to tag these values in OpenStreetMap.

Following a workshop at State of the Map, I have drafted proposal pages for
ref:GB:uprn=* and ref:GB:usrn=*. There seems to be an increase in use of
ISO two-letter country codes in ref tags, hence it's inclusion here.

As it currently stands, the data release I am aware of covers only England,
Wales and Scotland. However the UPRN and USRN allocation system is also in
use in Northern Ireland (plus Isle of Man and the Channel Islands
apparently).

The link to the proposal page for the UPRN tag is linked to in the email
below, whilst the USRN page is at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ref:GB:usrn

Please feel free to share any comments you may have on this proposal. Also
if you are aware of open data access to the equivalent data for Northern
Ireland, I would love to hear about this so that we can include links in
the relevant wiki pages.

Best regards,
*Rob*


-- Forwarded message -
From: Rob Nickerson 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 at 22:11
Subject: UPRN tag proposal page
To: Talk-GB 


Hi all,

As discussed at the State of the Map online workshop, I took away an action
to draft a proposal page for ref:GB:uprn. This page is now up online.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ref:GB:uprn

This is the first one of these I have done in a long time so hopefully I
got it right.

At this stage, please highlight any "red flags" that would prevent us from
moving to the voting stage. Feel free to also edit the page directly,
however I'm of the view that less is more in this case as it keeps it short
for people to read and also reduces the chance that something is added that
others do not agree with (which would be bad during the voting stage).

If there are no red flags I will move for a vote.

P.S. My thanks to Nick for drafting the initial text.
P.P.S If anyone wants to start a page for USRN, please feel free to,
otherwise I will attempt this later in the week.

Best regards,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] And the USRN tag proposal page

[Rob Nickerson]

As promised, here is the second tag proposal page - this time for the USRN
(Street).

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ref:GB:usrn

As before, any comments welcome, especially those that would prevent us
moving to the voting stage.

P.S. Does anyone know if we need to highlight these proposals to the
tagging mailing list? If we do, could someone kindly volunteer please.

Best regards,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] UPRN tag proposal page

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

As discussed at the State of the Map online workshop, I took away an action
to draft a proposal page for ref:GB:uprn. This page is now up online.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ref:GB:uprn

This is the first one of these I have done in a long time so hopefully I
got it right.

At this stage, please highlight any "red flags" that would prevent us from
moving to the voting stage. Feel free to also edit the page directly,
however I'm of the view that less is more in this case as it keeps it short
for people to read and also reduces the chance that something is added that
others do not agree with (which would be bad during the voting stage).

If there are no red flags I will move for a vote.

P.S. My thanks to Nick for drafting the initial text.
P.P.S If anyone wants to start a page for USRN, please feel free to,
otherwise I will attempt this later in the week.

Best regards,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] POI files of Pub/Restaurant chain

[Rob Nickerson]

Harvester is one of many brands owned by M: https://www.mbplc.com/

Try writing to the parent group as you might get permission for all of
their brands.

Best regards
Rob

P.s. sorry for lack of threaded email. I'm still struggling with nabble.
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[Talk-GB] Virtual meeting: New open data and towards more UK addresses

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

The new open data comes out on Wednesday this week (land ownership
boundaries, Unique Property Reference Number, etc). We are considering
holding a virtual meeting to discuss how we might be able to use this and
any next steps.

Does this sound of interest to you? If so, what times and dates might work
best? One option is we schedule it as a State of the Map virtual session.
Either 19:00 BST on Saturday 3rd July (just before Allan's Q session) or
at 19:45 BST on Sunday 4 July. If this is too soon then we can slip it by a
week or so.

Let me know what you think.

Best regards,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Land Registry INSPIRE data - 1 July OGL release

[Rob Nickerson]

Sounds like a good idea. Do you (or anyone else) have time to arrange this?

As for initial ideas these inspire polygons could be useful as a source to
check alignment, split terraced buildings into the correct number of parts
prior to surveying the house numbers, and look for potential missing urban
paths/shortcuts. That's a few that came to me initially but I'm sure there
are many more.

Best regards
Rob

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 09:50 Andrew Hain,  wrote:

> A lightning talk could get some attention, including mappers with
> experience of datasets elsewhere in the world.
>
> --
> Andrew
> ----------
> *From:* Rob Nickerson 
> *Sent:* 26 June 2020 20:49
> *To:* Talk-GB 
> *Subject:* [Talk-GB] Land Registry INSPIRE data - 1 July OGL release
>
> Hi all,
>
> Looks like 1 July will be a big open data release day. Not only do we get
> the USRN and UPRN data, but the land registry data will also be released:
>
>
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/inspire-data-to-be-shared-under-open-terms
>
> Should we attempt to coordinate something to prevent a mixture of uses
> across those OSMers who may want to do something with this date?
>
> Best regards
> Rob
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Land Registry INSPIRE data - 1 July OGL release

[Rob Nickerson]

Here's the corresponding page for those living and/or mapping in Scotland:

https://www.ros.gov.uk/about/news/2020/hmlr-and-ros-to-share-inspire-data

Best wishes,
Rob

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020, 20:49 Rob Nickerson,  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Looks like 1 July will be a big open data release day. Not only do we get
> the USRN and UPRN data, but the land registry data will also be released:
>
>
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/inspire-data-to-be-shared-under-open-terms
>
> Should we attempt to coordinate something to prevent a mixture of uses
> across those OSMers who may want to do something with this date?
>
> Best regards
> Rob
>
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[Talk-GB] Land Registry INSPIRE data - 1 July OGL release

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

Looks like 1 July will be a big open data release day. Not only do we get
the USRN and UPRN data, but the land registry data will also be released:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/inspire-data-to-be-shared-under-open-terms

Should we attempt to coordinate something to prevent a mixture of uses
across those OSMers who may want to do something with this date?

Best regards
Rob
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[Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database - matching against OSM

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Martin,

Looks and sounds good to me. From what I've seen looking at the data in the
past, and again now using your visualisation, both speed bumps and cycle
parking look good to import.

Out of interest, I did spot that the original data (from TfLs ground survey
with two photos) did look slightly higher quality than the proposed import
for speed bumps. I think this is because you snap the speed bump to
existing nodes if within a certain distance. This results in a very small
drop in data quality in a few places. Can I therefore ask:

- Can Richard's code create new nodes on a way or are data items simply
dropped if no existing nodes is nearby?
- And what tolerance is being applied (i.e. how close is "nearby")?

As noted this really is tiny discrepancies with the benefits of the import
being far greater than the odd shift of a few metres.

Best regards
Rob

P.s sorry for the non threaded reply. For some reason nabble was throwing
an unauthorized error and I don't receive these emails into my inbox.
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[Talk-GB] Road closures/changes during Covid19

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

How are you reflecting current road changes in OpenStreetMap? I am aware
that some cities are closing a few roads to motor traffic and installing
additional cycle infrastructure. I'm not sure how permanent this is going
to be, but it certainly feels like it will last a few months.

Is it worth setting up a coordinated approach to mapping these changes? We
can set up a wiki page with a table of who is contributing in each city,
where data is available, and what tags we want to use.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Rights of way mapping - making it easy for newcomers to OSM (perhaps!)

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Nick,

I like your idea. Breaking the tasks down in to chunks makes sense. One
group of beginners contribute data (a gps trace all coordinated via a
simple app) whilst another group make the edits in OSM.

P.S. On mapthepaths.org.uk (the website) can you make it such that when I
click a local authority line it highlights the full line. I would like to
see the start and end point of the line so that I can properly add the
reference to OSM. Currently I have to click along the path several times to
see where the reference changes.

Thank you,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSMF microgrants

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

Following discussion with the OSM UK board, I have today submitted three
proposals for the OSMF microgrant scheme. Please accept our apologies that
this is all a bit last minute (the deadline is 10th May). Hopefully this is
something that you can forgive us for, as I am sure the lifestyle change
impacts of Covid is affecting many of us here reading talk-gb.

   1.
   
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Microgrants/Microgrants_2020/Proposal/Leaflets_to_promote_OSM
   2.
   
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Microgrants/Microgrants_2020/Proposal/Addition_of_USRNs_and_outreach_to_public_sector
   3.
   
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Microgrants/Microgrants_2020/Proposal/One-off_costs_related_to_hosting_core_UK_systems_for_a_year

If you are wondering whether to submit any applications yourself, then we
would encourage you to do so. It does not take too long to complete the
form and the range of things that are eligible is quite substantive.

Best regards,
*Rob*


On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 at 16:45, Jez Nicholson  wrote:

> Not entirely serious/thought through, but i'd like to but an electric
> bike, cover it with OSM branding, and camera kit for making
> Mapillary/OpenStreetCam video. The bike then gets taken round various
> cities in the UK as a focal point for increasing the public's knowledge and
> contribution to OSM in the UK.
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 11:58 AM Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Just wanted to follow up on this to see if anyone had ideas for the OSMF
>> microgrant scheme.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Rob
>>
>> On Sun, 19 Apr 2020, 17:49 Rob Nickerson, 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Here are some ideas to get us started. Happy for anyone to pick these up
>>> and run with them. If you do, please let me know otherwise I may raise some
>>> myself:
>>>
>>> *Design and production of a series of leaflets. *
>>> I really liked the Wikimedia leaflets that were handed out at the OSM UK
>>> AGM in London. We borrowed the style to create a leaflet in advance of the
>>> MOVE 2020 conference. This one is corporate focused and hence we could do
>>> with a series of leaflets targeting different audiences (Wikimedia had 2
>>> leaflets at our AGM).
>>>
>>> *Costs related to hosting.*
>>> I'm pretty sure quite a few people would appreciate this.
>>>
>>> *Software projects.*
>>> I'm hoping we can come up with a few ideas here too. Personally I am
>>> finding myself using my laptop less and less and doing a lot more on my
>>> phone. A few of the OSM websites I use don't work that well on mobile so it
>>> may be nice to see some changes here. I'm expecting others to have much
>>> better ideas than me here though! :-D
>>>
>>>
>>>- *Merchandise (swag) to recognize exceptional volunteer
>>>contributions, or low-cost swag.*
>>>- Subsidizing the cost of the hi-vis jacket scheme run by OSM UK.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>- *Funding for shared mapping equipment.*
>>>- What about a drone? Some bike and car mounts to help us collect
>>>more Mapillary / OpenStreetCam imagery?
>>>
>>>
>>> That's my starter for ten. Looking forward to seeing your ideas.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> *Rob*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 at 17:17, Rob Nickerson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> The OSMF launched their microgrant scheme today. Value is up to EUR
>>>> 5000 (GBP 4,300) and projects can last up to 12 months.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2020/04/19/announcing-the-osm-foundations-call-for-microgrant-applications/
>>>>
>>>> Anyone wishing to submit a proposal "should discuss with the relevant
>>>> local communities" and apparently "must consult with your Local Chapter if
>>>> applicable".
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what that last point means. If it means the board then you
>>>> can reach us on bo...@osmuk.org. If it means the wider membership then
>>>> I suggest posting here or to our Loomio group. We are happy to collate and
>>>> send a mailchimp newsletter to all our OSM UK members to ensure they get
>>>> the messages (as not sure if all read this list or Loomio).
>>>>
>>>> Moving on from the admin, what ideas do you have? :-)
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes
>>>> *Rob*
>>>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database - matching against OSM

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Richard, Hi all,

(Sorry for not replying properly to the thread - I don't receive the emails
into my inbox and nabble is complaining about a broken certificate today)

It sounds like you are making good progress. Thanks for all the written
documentation for those, like myself, who are not so good with ruby. It
would be good to see those uncontentious edits going in to OSM fairly soon.
Is the plan to get this fully automated with a test in the dev version of
osm first?

As for the rest, I am unclear what editor you are planning for people to
use. Out of interest what editor are the TfL employees being trained on?
The raster tilesets are obviously a huge advantage but do you plan for
something that integrates a bit more with the editor? Something along the
lines of the P2 merging tool, RapID or Hootenanny (also ID)?

Thank you,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSMF microgrants

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

Just wanted to follow up on this to see if anyone had ideas for the OSMF
microgrant scheme.

Thanks
Rob

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020, 17:49 Rob Nickerson,  wrote:

> Here are some ideas to get us started. Happy for anyone to pick these up
> and run with them. If you do, please let me know otherwise I may raise some
> myself:
>
> *Design and production of a series of leaflets. *
> I really liked the Wikimedia leaflets that were handed out at the OSM UK
> AGM in London. We borrowed the style to create a leaflet in advance of the
> MOVE 2020 conference. This one is corporate focused and hence we could do
> with a series of leaflets targeting different audiences (Wikimedia had 2
> leaflets at our AGM).
>
> *Costs related to hosting.*
> I'm pretty sure quite a few people would appreciate this.
>
> *Software projects.*
> I'm hoping we can come up with a few ideas here too. Personally I am
> finding myself using my laptop less and less and doing a lot more on my
> phone. A few of the OSM websites I use don't work that well on mobile so it
> may be nice to see some changes here. I'm expecting others to have much
> better ideas than me here though! :-D
>
> - *Merchandise (swag) to recognize exceptional volunteer contributions,
> or low-cost swag.*
> - Subsidizing the cost of the hi-vis jacket scheme run by OSM UK.
>
> - *Funding for shared mapping equipment.*
> - What about a drone? Some bike and car mounts to help us collect more
> Mapillary / OpenStreetCam imagery?
>
> That's my starter for ten. Looking forward to seeing your ideas.
>
> Thank you,
> *Rob*
>
>
> On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 at 17:17, Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The OSMF launched their microgrant scheme today. Value is up to EUR 5000
>> (GBP 4,300) and projects can last up to 12 months.
>>
>>
>> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2020/04/19/announcing-the-osm-foundations-call-for-microgrant-applications/
>>
>> Anyone wishing to submit a proposal "should discuss with the relevant
>> local communities" and apparently "must consult with your Local Chapter if
>> applicable".
>>
>> I'm not sure what that last point means. If it means the board then you
>> can reach us on bo...@osmuk.org. If it means the wider membership then I
>> suggest posting here or to our Loomio group. We are happy to collate and
>> send a mailchimp newsletter to all our OSM UK members to ensure they get
>> the messages (as not sure if all read this list or Loomio).
>>
>> Moving on from the admin, what ideas do you have? :-)
>>
>> Best wishes
>> *Rob*
>>
>
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[Talk-GB] Open Data Manchester online workshops

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

Some upcoming online workshops from ODM to keep you busy during the
lockdown. Includes intros to OSM and QGIS and much more:

http://www.opendatamanchester.org.uk/?p=1343

Best regards,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSMF microgrants

[Rob Nickerson]

Here are some ideas to get us started. Happy for anyone to pick these up
and run with them. If you do, please let me know otherwise I may raise some
myself:

*Design and production of a series of leaflets. *
I really liked the Wikimedia leaflets that were handed out at the OSM UK
AGM in London. We borrowed the style to create a leaflet in advance of the
MOVE 2020 conference. This one is corporate focused and hence we could do
with a series of leaflets targeting different audiences (Wikimedia had 2
leaflets at our AGM).

*Costs related to hosting.*
I'm pretty sure quite a few people would appreciate this.

*Software projects.*
I'm hoping we can come up with a few ideas here too. Personally I am
finding myself using my laptop less and less and doing a lot more on my
phone. A few of the OSM websites I use don't work that well on mobile so it
may be nice to see some changes here. I'm expecting others to have much
better ideas than me here though! :-D

- *Merchandise (swag) to recognize exceptional volunteer contributions, or
low-cost swag.*
- Subsidizing the cost of the hi-vis jacket scheme run by OSM UK.

- *Funding for shared mapping equipment.*
- What about a drone? Some bike and car mounts to help us collect more
Mapillary / OpenStreetCam imagery?

That's my starter for ten. Looking forward to seeing your ideas.

Thank you,
*Rob*


On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 at 17:17, Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> The OSMF launched their microgrant scheme today. Value is up to EUR 5000
> (GBP 4,300) and projects can last up to 12 months.
>
>
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2020/04/19/announcing-the-osm-foundations-call-for-microgrant-applications/
>
> Anyone wishing to submit a proposal "should discuss with the relevant
> local communities" and apparently "must consult with your Local Chapter if
> applicable".
>
> I'm not sure what that last point means. If it means the board then you
> can reach us on bo...@osmuk.org. If it means the wider membership then I
> suggest posting here or to our Loomio group. We are happy to collate and
> send a mailchimp newsletter to all our OSM UK members to ensure they get
> the messages (as not sure if all read this list or Loomio).
>
> Moving on from the admin, what ideas do you have? :-)
>
> Best wishes
> *Rob*
>
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[Talk-GB] OSMF microgrants

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

The OSMF launched their microgrant scheme today. Value is up to EUR 5000
(GBP 4,300) and projects can last up to 12 months.

https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2020/04/19/announcing-the-osm-foundations-call-for-microgrant-applications/

Anyone wishing to submit a proposal "should discuss with the relevant local
communities" and apparently "must consult with your Local Chapter if
applicable".

I'm not sure what that last point means. If it means the board then you can
reach us on bo...@osmuk.org. If it means the wider membership then I
suggest posting here or to our Loomio group. We are happy to collate and
send a mailchimp newsletter to all our OSM UK members to ensure they get
the messages (as not sure if all read this list or Loomio).

Moving on from the admin, what ideas do you have? :-)

Best wishes
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] List moderator - volunteers needed

[Rob Nickerson]

Oops, I've just seen Matthew's post.

@Matthew: I agree, this is rare. Are you happy with continuing to support
the talk-gb list on your own or will extra volunteers help?

Regards
Rob

On Sat, 14 Mar 2020, 12:16 Rob Nickerson,  wrote:

> Thanks for the clarification Tom.
>
> Are we allowed to know the person's name? The wiki refers to Matthew
> Newton but I wasn't sure if this was still correct.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists
>
> Thanks
> Rob
>
>
> On Sat, 14 Mar 2020, 11:38 Tom Hughes,  wrote:
>
>> On 14/03/2020 11:37, Dan S wrote:
>> > Op za 14 mrt. 2020 om 11:20 schreef Tom Hughes via Talk-GB
>> > :
>> >>
>> >> On 14/03/2020 11:13, Rob Nickerson wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> As may have seen in Simon's response it sounds like we currently lack
>> >>> list moderators. If this is something you would like to do please
>> email
>> >>> this mailing list.
>> >>>
>> >>> Likewise we probably need to think about the criteria of what makes a
>> >>> good list moderator. If there are any traits that you'd like to see
>> in a
>> >>> mailing list moderator please share with this mailing list.
>> >>
>> >> Just to clarify what Simon said a bit before you all get carried
>> >> away, there absolutely is a list administrator and there is evidence
>> >> that they are processing the moderation queue.
>> >>
>> >> That's not to say that they are actively reading the messages on
>> >> the list or applying any particular code of conduct.
>> >>
>> >> It does mean however that you can't just choose somebody and ask
>> >> me to make them the list owner - you will need to try and make
>> >> contact with the existing list owner and discuss the situation
>> >> with them before attempting a putsch.
>> >
>> > Do they read messages to the "owner" address more actively?
>> > talk-gb-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> I have no idea but hopefully.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> --
>> Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
>> http://compton.nu/
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] List moderator - volunteers needed

[Rob Nickerson]

Thanks for the clarification Tom.

Are we allowed to know the person's name? The wiki refers to Matthew Newton
but I wasn't sure if this was still correct.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mailing_lists

Thanks
Rob


On Sat, 14 Mar 2020, 11:38 Tom Hughes,  wrote:

> On 14/03/2020 11:37, Dan S wrote:
> > Op za 14 mrt. 2020 om 11:20 schreef Tom Hughes via Talk-GB
> > :
> >>
> >> On 14/03/2020 11:13, Rob Nickerson wrote:
> >>
> >>> As may have seen in Simon's response it sounds like we currently lack
> >>> list moderators. If this is something you would like to do please email
> >>> this mailing list.
> >>>
> >>> Likewise we probably need to think about the criteria of what makes a
> >>> good list moderator. If there are any traits that you'd like to see in
> a
> >>> mailing list moderator please share with this mailing list.
> >>
> >> Just to clarify what Simon said a bit before you all get carried
> >> away, there absolutely is a list administrator and there is evidence
> >> that they are processing the moderation queue.
> >>
> >> That's not to say that they are actively reading the messages on
> >> the list or applying any particular code of conduct.
> >>
> >> It does mean however that you can't just choose somebody and ask
> >> me to make them the list owner - you will need to try and make
> >> contact with the existing list owner and discuss the situation
> >> with them before attempting a putsch.
> >
> > Do they read messages to the "owner" address more actively?
> > talk-gb-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> I have no idea but hopefully.
>
> Tom
>
> --
> Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
> http://compton.nu/
>
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[Talk-GB] List moderator - volunteers needed

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

As may have seen in Simon's response it sounds like we currently lack list
moderators. If this is something you would like to do please email this
mailing list.

Likewise we probably need to think about the criteria of what makes a good
list moderator. If there are any traits that you'd like to see in a mailing
list moderator please share with this mailing list.

Thanks,
Rob
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[Talk-GB] OSM UK updates

[Rob Nickerson]

A quick list of updates related to OSM UK:

*Microgrants:*
Don't forget this - deadline end of the month. We will pay out so if you
want some support, now is the time to ask for it.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1JNA0GrmldlqQorfXS-I6NMhT9g0hhECDtouWPKPwfj0/edit


*Membership fees/finance:*
We've just started a discussion to help determine the right level of fee
for next year. Compared to last year we are struggling with corporate
members (we need more volunteer help to chase unpaid invoices) and we are
overspending versus plan due to the unexpected Loomio cost.

Discussion is happening here:
https://www.loomio.org/d/Btq7INix/2020-21-budget-should-we-consider-raising-membership-fees-


*AGM date:*
Leeds came out top as the location preference for the next AGM. We need to
find a date. Please let us know your availability here:
https://www.loomio.org/d/3znXSOCH/agm-2020-location-and-venue-ideas

Best regards,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] "OSMUK-in-a-box"

[Rob Nickerson]

>do we cover British Overseas Territories such as Gibraltar and the
Falkland Islands?

Not as OSM UK CIC. We ended up settling on the British Islands:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Islands

Thank you,
*Rob*
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Fwd: OSM UK microgrants

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

OSM UK is now offering some small funding for OSM related projects - please
see below. Sorry if this is the second time you have seen this. I thought
there might be some people on this local list that are not on talk-gb.

Thank you,
*Rob*


-- Forwarded message -
From: Rob Nickerson 
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 at 17:44
Subject: OSM UK microgrants
To: Talk-GB 


Hi all,

We are pleased to announce the start of a (very) small micro-grant scheme
available to members of OSM UK who wish to help us meet our aims but need a
little bit of financial support.

Form to apply:
https://forms.gle/njsTxkb3NQChob3W7

More info:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xVLT-mUWPl-zxR4qyZ0PmceFR7HGwNEDsck9e-AsYGk/

P.S. We're also now looking for a new topic to cover in our February
meeting. This could be a presentation of something you've created/seen.
Please share ideas here or at
https://www.loomio.org/d/a8Yt4B2X/what-should-we-discuss-in-the-3rd-februray-meeting-

Thank you,
*Rob*
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Mappa Mercia this Thursday

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

By my calendar it is the next meetup this coming Thursday. I am assuming
central Birmingham, likely at The Bull...?

*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] OSM UK microgrants

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

We are pleased to announce the start of a (very) small micro-grant scheme
available to members of OSM UK who wish to help us meet our aims but need a
little bit of financial support.

Form to apply:
https://forms.gle/njsTxkb3NQChob3W7

More info:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xVLT-mUWPl-zxR4qyZ0PmceFR7HGwNEDsck9e-AsYGk/

P.S. We're also now looking for a new topic to cover in our February
meeting. This could be a presentation of something you've created/seen.
Please share ideas here or at
https://www.loomio.org/d/a8Yt4B2X/what-should-we-discuss-in-the-3rd-februray-meeting-

Thank you,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] WeeklyOSM: Road colouring and local taginfo

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

A couple of things from this weeks WeeklyOSM that piqued my interest:

First map showing roads coloured by their name (street, lane, avenue, etc)
for several UK cities:
https://twitter.com/puntofisso/status/1213135545121099777?s=19

And second, geofabrik's local instances of TagInfo. The urls follow the
regions on their download site: http://download.geofabrik.de/

So for example we can now look at a TagInfo site for Lancashire and another
for Warwickshire. It might be fun to do some stats on how the varies region
differ (taginfo has an API for retrieving data) without having to hit the
Overpass API or have your own copy of the OSM database.

https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/great-britain/england/lancashire/
https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/great-britain/england/warwickshire

Thank you.
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Map with AI comes to the UK

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

A quick update on the MapWithAI stuff. Kaart have developed a plugin for
JOSM:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/the_node_less_traveled/diary/391863
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Plugin/MapWithAI

Also, but slightly less relevant now, I have thrown this data into Mapbox
studio tilesets so that you can add as a background to JOSM/ID.

The process I use is to add the layer in JOSM, pan around until I find
something that needs adding, then use the JOSM plugin to add (and adjust)
it.

Raster tiles
In JOSM add it using:

wmts:
https://api.mapbox.com/styles/v1/robjn/ck59jksa71nym1co31kr8mulb/wmts?access_token=pk.eyJ1Ijoicm9iam4iLCJhIjoid0dYNkY1QSJ9.A-0lzQOawGYICYPfURsjDA

And in iD Editor add it using:

https://api.mapbox.com/styles/v1/robjn/ck59jksa71nym1co31kr8mulb/tiles/256/{zoom}/{x}/{y}?access_token=pk.eyJ1Ijoicm9iam4iLCJhIjoid0dYNkY1QSJ9.A-0lzQOawGYICYPfURsjDA

Thank you,
*Rob*


On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 at 22:08, Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I just spotted that Facebook have pushed an update to their map with AI
> project:
>
> "For our final release of 2019, we have released 84 new countries for our
> AI road data with new coverage in the remainder of Europe, Asia, and
> Oceania! AI roads are now available nearly globally."
> Source:
> https://github.com/facebookmicrosites/Open-Mapping-At-Facebook/blob/master/WHATSNEW.md
>
> For those who don't know what MapWithAI is check out https://mapwith.ai
>
> And to try it out in their RapID version of the iD editor:
> https://mapwith.ai/rapid#background=Bing_features=boundaries=18.60/53.40625/-2.13801
>
> Just roads at the moment and not that easy to find a suggestion that is
> worth adding (at least near me where roads are well mapped) but this does
> demonstrate what is possible. Let us know if you have a good or bad
> experience with this.
>
> Would be great to see this extended to buildings but we may have to wait
> for Microsoft for that.
>
> P.S. A happy new year to all!
>
> Thank you,
> *Rob*
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Map with AI comes to the UK

[Rob Nickerson]

Thanks Jerry.

I'd also subsequently discovered the data dump but had not yet got around
to looking at it. What are you using here to view and work with the data?
Is QGIS and 6GB RAM sufficient?

I would be interested in Warwickshire if you can extract that.

And yes, we probably are not expecting much for the UK given how well we
already have most roads mapped. It's a shame it only shows missing roads as
I suspect it has better geometry of some rural roads in poorly mapped areas
than us - I still find jagged roads with source=npe.

Nevertheless, the AI stuff is an interesting one to keep an eye on. If
improvements can be made and additional datasets incorporated, it could
become a significant aid in the future. For example I wonder if it could be
good at building detections when combined with other data such as LiDAR
height data. There is also the prospect of using AI to help find solar
panels.

Best regards,
*Rob*


On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 14:07, SK53  wrote:

> Perhaps more useful is that one can download the UK data as a geopackage
> from
> https://github.com/facebookmicrosites/Open-Mapping-At-Facebook/wiki/Available-Countries.
> It's 147Mb zipped in a tar which unpacked is around 400Mb.
>
> I've had a very quick look and notice quite a few concentrations of
> features which are obviously tractor lines in farmland. See this area
> around Colston Bassett
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Colston_basset_fb_rapid.png.
> Apparently such false positives can be marked as such in the editor which
> ought to improve detections next time round. My suspicion is that things
> which are actually roads are mainly driveways to outlying houses & farms or
> farm tracks. Using OS OpenRoads is more likely to help find significant
> missing adopted roads.
>
> Jerry
>
> I can potentially provide extracts for individual LAs if people want them,
> send me an email. I personally found it easier to look at the data as a
> whole rather than scanning around in the editor.
>
>
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 at 22:09, Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I just spotted that Facebook have pushed an update to their map with AI
>> project:
>>
>> "For our final release of 2019, we have released 84 new countries for our
>> AI road data with new coverage in the remainder of Europe, Asia, and
>> Oceania! AI roads are now available nearly globally."
>> Source:
>> https://github.com/facebookmicrosites/Open-Mapping-At-Facebook/blob/master/WHATSNEW.md
>>
>> For those who don't know what MapWithAI is check out https://mapwith.ai
>>
>> And to try it out in their RapID version of the iD editor:
>> https://mapwith.ai/rapid#background=Bing_features=boundaries=18.60/53.40625/-2.13801
>>
>> Just roads at the moment and not that easy to find a suggestion that is
>> worth adding (at least near me where roads are well mapped) but this does
>> demonstrate what is possible. Let us know if you have a good or bad
>> experience with this.
>>
>> Would be great to see this extended to buildings but we may have to wait
>> for Microsoft for that.
>>
>> P.S. A happy new year to all!
>>
>> Thank you,
>> *Rob*
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[Talk-GB] Map with AI comes to the UK

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

I just spotted that Facebook have pushed an update to their map with AI
project:

"For our final release of 2019, we have released 84 new countries for our
AI road data with new coverage in the remainder of Europe, Asia, and
Oceania! AI roads are now available nearly globally."
Source:
https://github.com/facebookmicrosites/Open-Mapping-At-Facebook/blob/master/WHATSNEW.md

For those who don't know what MapWithAI is check out https://mapwith.ai

And to try it out in their RapID version of the iD editor:
https://mapwith.ai/rapid#background=Bing_features=boundaries=18.60/53.40625/-2.13801

Just roads at the moment and not that easy to find a suggestion that is
worth adding (at least near me where roads are well mapped) but this does
demonstrate what is possible. Let us know if you have a good or bad
experience with this.

Would be great to see this extended to buildings but we may have to wait
for Microsoft for that.

P.S. A happy new year to all!

Thank you,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] December - Christmas curry

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

Just a reminder that this is tomorrow (Manzils Restaurant, Digbeth
- Thursday, 5th December meet at 7:30).

Hope to see you there.

Rob

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019, 21:42 Rob Nickerson,  wrote:

> Great. Anyone else able to make it?
> *Rob*
>
>
> On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 at 15:14, Brian Prangle 
> wrote:
>
>> Works for me
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 10:05 PM Rob Nickerson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> In what is now becoming a bit of a tradition, we discussed going for
>>> curry for our December mappa mercia meeting. If in agreement I suggest we
>>> stick to the same place as previous years (Manzils Restaurant, Digbeth).
>>>
>>> First Thursday of the month would make it 5th December. Shall we say to
>>> meet at 7:30?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> *Rob*
>>> ___
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>>> Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
>>>
>>
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Adding crossing_ref to west midlands pedestrian crossings

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

We have a lot of crossing=toucan objects that are at risk of loosing this
UK specific naming (same for pelican, tiger and pegasus crossings). The
reason being is that the wiki now suggests using global appropriate values
within the crossing=* tag (e.g. marked, uncontrolled, traffic_signals).

To be kind to our global friends, and to ensure that the UK specific
details are not lost at some point down the line, I am proposing adding the
crossing_ref tags by automated edit.

Please see the following page and let me know what you think.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/RobJN#Toucan.2C_tiger.2C_pelican_and_pegasus_crossings_in_the_West_Midlands


Thank you,
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] HSBC UK edit

[Rob Nickerson]

West Midlands so that I can stand a chance of being able to visit any sites
that get queried.

I'll get on to making this edit hopefully at the weekend.

Best,
Rob

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019, 23:04 Brian Prangle,  wrote:

> Why restrict it to w mids? Do the whole UK and have done with it . It's no
> more work.
> Rgds
> Brian
>
> On Sat, 23 Nov 2019, 21:33 Rob Nickerson, 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> In line with the Automated Edit guidelines I would like to draw your
>> attention to the following proposal. This proposal would update HSBC banks
>> in the West Midlands region (hence this mailing list) to reflect the new
>> HSBC UK brand.
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/RobJN
>>
>> I've suggested December 2019, but if supportive I might be able to do
>> this before the end of November.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> *Rob*
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>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK meetings - opening them to everyone

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

As discussed, we are moving to open meetings - everyone is welcome to join.
I've just sent the details out on the mailchimp email newsletter (extract
below), but wanted to share a few more comments here.

As noted in the last email I was looking for a new system to host these
meetings on. I have now found an option that is free and includes many
joining options (web, app and phone). If using the phone number, please
note that as an 03 number this is chargeable but will cost no more than a
national rate call to an 01 or 02 number. Those with monthly contracts can
usually use their allowed minutes to call this number.

The first meeting will focus on getting our microgrant programme up and
running so I'm not expecting the need to use screen sharing. For future
meetings this may be used - eg. for a "show and tell" presentation or
demonstration.

Focused topics for future meetings sought. Have you something amazing to
share? We'd love to include it in a future meeting.

P.S. The solution we are using is open source (
https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet).

Today we are introducing new monthly OpenStreetMap meetings which you can
join by web, app or phone. Each month will feature a 30 to 40 minute
focused topic followed by a general update. The focused topic could be
something related to OSM UK's annual strategy or it could be a more general
OpenStreetMap "show and tell" session.

To get us started we have decided to pick the Microgrants item from our
annual strategy as the focused topic for December's meeting (see below). If
you have a suggestion as to future focus areas please let us know.
*December meeting: Microgrants*
Join by web, app or phone on Monday 2 December @ 7:30pm

   - Web browser: Go to https://8x8.vc/osmuk/join
   - 8x8 Video Meetings App: Use meeting name osmuk/join
   - Dial-in: +44 330 808 1706 PIN: 518 299 17#

Best regards
*Rob*


On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 at 19:30, Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> As noted in my recent email we have some news regarding OSM UK meetings.
>
> Prior to setting up the non-profit company these were open to all. It was
> in these meetings that we discussed the geographical region (UK, Channel
> Islands and Isle of Man).
>
> When the company was finally set up we defaulted to monthly Directors
> meetings. On reflection I have no idea why we did this other than copying
> the format that OSM Foundation was using. I guess we had hopped that
> working groups would establish themselves.
>
> At our last Directors meeting, we discussed this and have decided to make
> some changes. Going forward the monthly meetings will be open to everyone.
> We agreed that they should have a clear meeting agenda with some method for
> members to schedule/ask for time for topics. They should also be no longer
> than 1 hour and that we should look into using a communication channel
> which allows video / screen-sharing (any ideas?).
>
> Each month we will schedule a main focus topic the first 30 to 40 minutes.
> This could be something related to our annual strategy or it could be a
> "show and tell" session. The intent is that we start collecting notes (as a
> community) in advance of the meeting so that we make best use of the hour.
> We are still very small so we want to use these meetings to make quick
> decisions. Nobody wants a talking shop.
>
> To get us started we have decided to pick the Microgrants item from our
> annual strategy as the main focus topic for December's meeting (Monday 2
> December @ 19:30). Adam has some guidelines as a starting point which we
> can pop into a collaborative document to start the discussion. Meanwhile if
> anyone has any comments or suggestions as to future focus areas and/or
> which communication tool we should use, please let us know. Currently we
> use a telephone conference facility (WhyPay) which is free for the company
> and uses an 03 number (so often included in monthly mobile contracts). I
> personally have dialled in to meetings from locations with no wifi or
> mobile data so if any new options still allow join by telephone, that would
> be much appreciated.
>
> I hope to speak with many of you in December :-)
>
> Best regards,
> *Rob*
>
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] December - Christmas curry

[Rob Nickerson]

Great. Anyone else able to make it?
*Rob*


On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 at 15:14, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Works for me
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 10:05 PM Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> In what is now becoming a bit of a tradition, we discussed going for
>> curry for our December mappa mercia meeting. If in agreement I suggest we
>> stick to the same place as previous years (Manzils Restaurant, Digbeth).
>>
>> First Thursday of the month would make it 5th December. Shall we say to
>> meet at 7:30?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> *Rob*
>> ___
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>> Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
>>
>
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] HSBC UK edit

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

In line with the Automated Edit guidelines I would like to draw your
attention to the following proposal. This proposal would update HSBC banks
in the West Midlands region (hence this mailing list) to reflect the new
HSBC UK brand.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/RobJN

I've suggested December 2019, but if supportive I might be able to do this
before the end of November.

Best regards,
*Rob*
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] December - Christmas curry

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

In what is now becoming a bit of a tradition, we discussed going for curry
for our December mappa mercia meeting. If in agreement I suggest we stick
to the same place as previous years (Manzils Restaurant, Digbeth).

First Thursday of the month would make it 5th December. Shall we say to
meet at 7:30?

Best regards,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Strava heatmaps - permission reconfirmed

[Rob Nickerson]

If struggling with setting up the Stava layer, or annoyed with cookies,
then may I suggest the following page:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/RU:Strava#JOSM.2C_ID:_.D0.9C.D0.B5.D1.82.D0.BE.D0.B4_.D1.82.D1.80.D0.B0.D0.BD.D0.B7.D0.B8.D1.82.D0.BD.D0.BE.D0.B3.D0.BE_.D0.BF.D1.80.D0.BE.D0.BA.D1.81.D0.B8.D1.80.D0.BE.D0.B2.D0.B0.D0.BD.D0.B8.D1.8F_.D1.82.D0.B0.D0.B9.D0.BB.D0.BE.D0.B2

Best regards,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] Strava heatmaps - permission reconfirmed

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

In 2014 Strava developed a custom version if the ID editor which included
their heatmap. The tool could adjust OSM ways to better align them with
their GPS heatmap.

Some years ago that tool stopped working and use of the heatmap for
improving OSM was drawn in to doubt. That doubt has now come to an end as
Strava have been able to reconfirm that we are ok to use it in to improve
OSM:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2019-November/083564.html

This is a good supplement to the OSM GPS traces and can be used to help map
public rights of way and improve road alignment.

Happy mapping,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] OSM-UK misunderstands the British Isles

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Dave,

You can read about the formation of OSM UK at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/OSMUK

I believe the main regional discussion was started on the 2015-12-17
meeting. It continued through the process of drafting our articles of
association and as part of becoming a Local Chapter of the foundation.

>From my research I found that "British Islands" is a term used within UK
law. It is the definition as set out there that we ended up using. Naming
wise we settled on OSMUK rather than OSM British Islands.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Islands

Some of the minutes seem to have been lost. The Google docs ones are due to
an error on my part (I moved the files to a private folder). I'll restore
these when back on my laptop but for now here is the meeting notes:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F3-3I0W_irUXpNybqH31F7DnLNKayWxx/view?usp=drivesdk

I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to achieve from your questions
here. As noted the region was defined following discussion and is now set.
The extension to cover the Channel Islands and Isle of Man ensures that
these communities have access to a legal entity with a bank account should
they find that useful. Just like in the UK it is entirely up to each
individual as to when and whether they want to direct something via the OSM
UK company rather than via their own person to person relationships.
Depending upon who you are dealing with sometimes a registered company is a
plus.

I hope this helps with understanding the context. We're certainly not
trying to rewrite history or take control off anyone.

P.s. it's not uncommon to have national naming oddities. "Team GB" is
another such example. I seem to recall from the earlier chats on this that
someone posted a link to a long article about how .co.uk ended up being
used instead of .co.gb (GB being the 2 letter ISO code for the UK).

P.P.S I think the +44 international telephone calling code is the same
locations as OSM UK. Perhaps we should have called ourselves OSM+44 

Best regards,
Rob
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[Talk-GB] OSM UK meetings - opening them to everyone

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

As noted in my recent email we have some news regarding OSM UK meetings.

Prior to setting up the non-profit company these were open to all. It was
in these meetings that we discussed the geographical region (UK, Channel
Islands and Isle of Man).

When the company was finally set up we defaulted to monthly Directors
meetings. On reflection I have no idea why we did this other than copying
the format that OSM Foundation was using. I guess we had hopped that
working groups would establish themselves.

At our last Directors meeting, we discussed this and have decided to make
some changes. Going forward the monthly meetings will be open to everyone.
We agreed that they should have a clear meeting agenda with some method for
members to schedule/ask for time for topics. They should also be no longer
than 1 hour and that we should look into using a communication channel
which allows video / screen-sharing (any ideas?).

Each month we will schedule a main focus topic the first 30 to 40 minutes.
This could be something related to our annual strategy or it could be a
"show and tell" session. The intent is that we start collecting notes (as a
community) in advance of the meeting so that we make best use of the hour.
We are still very small so we want to use these meetings to make quick
decisions. Nobody wants a talking shop.

To get us started we have decided to pick the Microgrants item from our
annual strategy as the main focus topic for December's meeting (Monday 2
December @ 19:30). Adam has some guidelines as a starting point which we
can pop into a collaborative document to start the discussion. Meanwhile if
anyone has any comments or suggestions as to future focus areas and/or
which communication tool we should use, please let us know. Currently we
use a telephone conference facility (WhyPay) which is free for the company
and uses an 03 number (so often included in monthly mobile contracts). I
personally have dialled in to meetings from locations with no wifi or
mobile data so if any new options still allow join by telephone, that would
be much appreciated.

I hope to speak with many of you in December :-)

Best regards,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM-UK misunderstands the British Isles

[Rob Nickerson]

Thanks all.

As noted the wiki page is not run by OSM-UK (the company) although company
members and directors are free to update it, along with everyone else. I
personally have done some edits recently (more to come) and found it odd
that the page has that text at the top about what the UK is and the term
Britain. I am not sure how that helps people to map and I was very tempted
to delete it completely. Those wanting to know about the UK can use their
favourite search engine and/or Wikipedia.

The website (osmuk.org) is run by OSM-UK (the company) although if anyone
would like to help make changes, please let me know. In addition to the
company membership, we also maintain an email newsletter. The audience for
that is higher at 190 subscribers. Whilst I would love to see those
additional people become company members, it is entirely their choice. It
is also worth noting that we have a set percentage of members that need to
attend meetings in order for them to be quorate. Having the differentiation
between company members and newsletter subscribers helps here. Those that
to participate in decision making should join as a company member, whereas
those just wanting the occasional update can just join the newsletter list.

I'm going to start a new thread as we also have some news about future
meetings.

Best regards,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] Rights of way layer - raster and vector tiles

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

Have been enjoying using Nick's MapThePaths.org.uk website recently. In
most cases I can make the edit to OSM using the built in editing
functionality. However from time to time there is a need to fire up JOSM or
iD editor in order to split an OSM way. In doing so I was looking for a
ProW layer to add to the editor to guide my edits.

Using Mapbox Studio I have created such a layer.

*Raster tiles*
In JOSM add it using:

wmts:
https://api.mapbox.com/styles/v1/robjn/ck2nvvl8u06p91cqrlcvmzcsd/wmts?access_token=pk.eyJ1Ijoicm9iam4iLCJhIjoid0dYNkY1QSJ9.A-0lzQOawGYICYPfURsjDA

And in iD Editor add it using:

https://api.mapbox.com/styles/v1/robjn/ck2nvvl8u06p91cqrlcvmzcsd/tiles/256/{zoom}/{x}/{y}?access_token=pk.eyJ1Ijoicm9iam4iLCJhIjoid0dYNkY1QSJ9.A-0lzQOawGYICYPfURsjDA

A few things to note:

Firstly, all Rights of Way data is currently shown. I was hoping to filter
out the data which is not universally accepted as compatible with OSM
within Mapbox Studio but it seems like you cannot use wildcards in the
expressions there. If there is interest in this layer, I will reload the
data in to Mapbox Studio so that I can apply styling (e.g. fade/blur) to
the data that is not OSM compatible (it can be used as a prompt for a
ground survey).

Footpaths are pink, bridleways are green, restricted byways - orange/brown,
BOATS - blue.

The text label is || as is stored
in the KML files on rowmaps.org. Use the Local Authority Code to confirm
against Robert Whittaker's site (https://osm.mathmos.net/prow/progress/)
that you are editing one of the OSM compatible areas.

In iD Editor the text label does not show up as it is black on a black
background. It is also not possible to have this tile layer and aerial
imagery layer shown at the same time. See "Vector Tiles" section below for
a workaround.

I have added a black diamond at the end of each way. Unfortunately in
Mapbox Studio I could only find how to add this symbol at one end of each
way so it's not complete but hopefully still useful. I've done a previous
test in Warwickshire to add black marks at both ends of each way. If useful
let me know so I can process this data and load it into Mapbox Studio for
styling.

*Vector tiles*
Mapbox also creates vector tiles of the data. This can be loaded into iD
Editor. To do so open iD, press "f" to open the Map Data dialogue and
within Custom Data paste the following:

https://api.mapbox.com/v4/robjn.cc9hly53/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.mvt?access_token=pk.eyJ1Ijoicm9iam4iLCJhIjoid0dYNkY1QSJ9.A-0lzQOawGYICYPfURsjDA

This then shows the data in bright pink. Text labels are also in bright
pink solving the problem of black text on black background above. You can
overlay this on top of aerial imagery. The other great thing is that you
can select the ways just as if they were OSM ways. Selecting one shows the
extent of the ways and it's tags. Given that all ways are drawn in pink
when using vector tiles you will need to select each to confirm it's right
of way class. Maybe one day there will be simple rules within iD that allow
us to colour vector tiles data based on the tags.

I'm not yet aware of any way to add the mvt vector tiles to JOSM.

P.S. I am on a free tier within Mapbox Studio. If popular I might run out
so if the layer stops working you know why! We could see if Mapbox will
allow us (or OSM UK) so additional free allowance.

Best regards,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] OSMF board election

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

Are there any questions that you want asking of the candidates for OSMF
directorship? We have until 2019-11-13 00:01 UTC to submit these.

Best,
Rob
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[Talk-GB] West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine 24hr mapathon

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi,

Our next 24 hour mapathon is next Tuesday. This time we are mapping West
Aberdeenshire and Kincardine.

There's no need to plan anything but feel free to do some prep if you like.
Just take a look at that bit of the map at any stage during the 24 hour
period. If you spot something you can add/update/improve go for it.
Alternatively just see how it's mapping compares to regions you're more
familiar with.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_24_hour_mapathons

Thank you,

*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Name Suggestion Index

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Robert,

I'm happy to help with these. For each store can you please provide:

   1. Main name (e.g. Greggs)
   2. Any alternate name that should be matched on when contributors type
   in the search box in iD (e.g. Gregg's)
   3. The main tag (e.g. shop=bakery)
   4. Any alternate tags you want to match on (e.g. amenity=cafe)
   5. Any tags that should always be present. Common examples are:
  1. brand=*
  2. brand:wikidata=*
  3. brand:wikipedia=*
  4. cuisine=* (in the case of restaurants)

It may be easier to create a spreadsheet with all the info in. We can then
get this in to the name suggestion index. Happy to help here but for those
interested see
https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
. It is possible to edit the relevant brand files [1] via the github.com
web interface. Open the relevant brand (.json) file and then click the
pencil icon in the top right corner. This forks the repo and lets you edit
the file. Make your changes and then raise a Pull Request.

[1] https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index/tree/master/brands

*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] OS Map Rules

[Rob Nickerson]

Doing so would be fine. Just look out for the signs which tell you which
type of public right of way it is* rather than copying that detail from OS.

* applicable if you are intending to add the designation=public_footpath
(and similar for bridleway etc) tags.

Best regards and happy mapping
Rob
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Meeting in Birmingham on Thursday

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

Now that the clocks have changed we will revert back to Birmingham city
centre for our monthly meetups. Normally the first Thursday of each month -
so Thursday this week.

I understand that The Bull on Price Street is now run by the same people
who run The Wellington. Are we sticking with that for the first meeting or
would you like to try somewhere else?

See you soon,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] Zebra crossings being lost in iD - how to respond

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

*Before I start this message, I would like to say that I am looking for
solutions and not wishing to open the flood gates on abuse of the iD
editors. On the whole they do a great job and even when we disagree it
should be with respect. Right now on to the message itself:*

It seems like the iD editor's "upgrade this" feature is replacing
crossing=zebra with crossing=marked but NOT adding crossing_ref=zebra to
the node. If lots of users make use of this "feature" in the UK then we
stand to lose some valuable data. Taginfo UK says there are 4,710
crossing=zebra features in the UK.

I have added a comment on to the GitHub issue but no reply yet.
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/6962

An alternate option is that we attempt to strike first - before the iD
editors amend the data. There seems to be two options here: an automated
edit adding the crossing_ref=zebra tag to all crossing=zebra features in
the UK, or we make use of the new MapRoulette "Quick Fixes" feature to
visually inspect each. See:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvexel/diary/390984

What do you think?

P.S. This also applies to the UK's other crossing types. The MapRoulette
option wouldn't be an option for all of these.

Thank you,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] FIXME/fixme/OSm Notes Quarterly Project

[Rob Nickerson]

So far I have looked at two regions in the UK for fixmes: Warwickshire and
the North West.

In Warwickshire it can be difficult to resolve the fixmes as most (but not
all) require a lot of work. I found a completely different story in the
North West. I found a good number of fixmes there which had already been
resolved and therefore all I had to do was remove the redundant fixme=*
tag. I also found a lot of fixme tags that could be resolved just by using
the latest aerial imagery and/or GPS traces. Once again it has been a
reminder of the differences between places within a few hours of each other.

As for adding new fixme tags, I personally haven't needed to do this yet. I
am curious as to where "peak fixme" lies. If we had 10% more contributors
would we end up with 10% more fixme tags or do you eventually get to a a
point where you turn the corner and start ticking off all these quality
assurance issues?

P.S. The number of Notes is on the up again as well. There are a lot of
good descriptions in the Notes that can be used to update the map. Check
them out at
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=United%20Kingdom

Best regards,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Hay Mills Rotor Station

[Rob Nickerson]

Curious. I'm struggling but here is another photo that shows more of the
surroundings. I'll keep poking around.

https://www.airteamimages.com/pics/94/94944_800.jpg

*Rob*


On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 at 22:16, Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> I'm trying to pinpoint the former location of Hay Mills Rotor Station:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hay_Mills_Rotor_Station
>
> a helidrome that operated in south Birmingham from June 1951 to
> January 1954. The coordinates I have used in that article are an
> estimate, based on the photo seen there, and recollections found in
> online forums.
>
> I've looked at all the aerial imagery I can access in JOSM, but can see no
> sign.
>
> Can anyone find a trace on some other set of imagery, or an old map?
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Overpass question: Fixmes and surroundings

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

I found an answer to this in the end (mostly by chance). It seems like the
overpass in JOSM is different from what can be used on the Overpass Turbo
website. It JOSM you need to use the following instead:

[out:xml][timeout:90][bbox:{{bbox}}];
// Get all fixmes in current bounding box
(
  node["fixme"~"^(incomplete|stub|Longer than this|continue)$",i];
  node["FIXME"~"^(incomplete|stub|Longer than this|continue))$",i];
  way["fixme"~"^(incomplete|stub|Longer than this|continue)$",i];
  way["FIXME"~"^(incomplete|stub|Longer than this|continue))$",i];
)->.fixmes;

// find surrounds
(
  node(around.fixmes:50);
  way(around.fixmes:50);
  //relation(around.fixmes:50);
)->.surrounds;


// return results, fixmes and surrounds
(.fixmes; .surrounds;>;);
out meta;

*Rob*


On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 at 21:50, Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to craft a overpass query that returns fixmes and the
> surrounding OSM data. I seem to have got it working in Overpass Turbo. I
> want to use this in JOSM but it's not returning all the same Ways as seen
> in Overpass Turbo.
>
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Myw
>
> Anyone able to help me please?
>
> Thank you.
> *Rob*
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] TfL cycle data published - proposed conflation process

[Rob Nickerson]

Martin wrote:
> e.g. JOSM Conflation, Hootenanny, OpenStreetMap Live Conflation

OK, a few I am aware of, one i'm not. Suspect others won't know them all
either. For those interested:

JOSM Conflation:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Conflation

Hootenanny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeaTLxVCFmc

OpenStreetMap Live Conflation:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Richard/diary/368524

As for the proposal, I agree that a slow and steady approach is required.
Although I do think we should set a target date. A date by which we are
happy to start the conflation or have agreed that it is not viable. Would
be a shame to see it just drag out. Happy to help as much as I can to
ensure this.

Best regards,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] Fixmes and Notes

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi,

We've just started the next quarterly project on fixmes and notes. The wiki
page has some ideas - do you have any other ideas?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_2019_Q4_Project:_Fixmes_and_Notes

It strikes me that a large proportion of the fixmes relate to incomplete
paths. So in effect tacking this would be an extension of our previous
quarterly project on paths. Here is an overpass turbo query to show those
fixmes:

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/N56

Happy mapping!
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] 24 hour mapathon - Aberconwy

[Rob Nickerson]

Thanks all. Great idea to tie it in with the Quarterly Projects by looking
for solar. Which reminds me, we are in the next quarter now. I will send a
separate email asking for ideas on how to work on Fixmes and Notes.

Best regards,
*Rob*


On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 at 10:40, SK53  wrote:

> From memory the bit of Penrhyn Bay close to the Little Orme is 60s or
> early 70s housing (Penrhyn Beach West etc), with a lot of semis with the
> first floor rooms effectively in the roof space (a style I associate with
> Wimpey, but other builders may have used it). Unfortunately, I last visited
> in pre-OSM days and I think I only have photos on the Little Orme itself.
> The rest of that area )Penrhyn Beach East side) looks to be bungalows, and
> perhaps a slightly later development.
>
> I've added a bit of solar and the underlying houses.
>
> Beware in the Conway Valley of imagery alignment (e.g. around Bodnant,
> Betwys-y-Coed).
>
> Jerry
>
> On Wed, 9 Oct 2019 at 10:21, Andy Robinson  wrote:
>
>> A few minutes done in Penrhyn Bay
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/53.31715/-3.76346
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Rob Nickerson [mailto:rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* 09 October 2019 06:43
>> *To:* Talk-GB
>> *Subject:* [Talk-GB] 24 hour mapathon - Aberconwy
>>
>>
>>
>> Today is the day of the Aberconwy mapathon. At any point during the day
>> if you can spare a few minutes to look at Aberconwy that would be great.
>>
>>
>>
>> We're looking at this region:
>>
>>
>> http://geojson.io/#data=data:text/x-url,https%3A%2F%2Fons-inspire.esriuk.com%2Farcgis%2Frest%2Fservices%2FElectoral_Boundaries%2FWestminster_Parliamentary_Constituencies_December_2018_UK_BGC%2FMapServer%2F0%2Fquery%3Ff%3Dgeojson%26where%3Dpcon18cd%2520%253D%2520%2527W0758%2527%26returnGeometry%3Dtrue
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe you can find something mapped using the old NPE source which can be
>> updated using latest open data/imagery.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_24_hour_mapathons
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> *Rob*
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Mappa Mercia October mapping

[Rob Nickerson]

26th is good for me. Does it work for you Gareth?

Rob

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 15:38 Brian Prangle,  wrote:

> Hi Gareth
>
> My only two free dates are 19 and 26 October. Of the two I'd prefer 26
> October. So I propose 26 October unless it's inconvenient for anyone else
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 9:51 AM Gareth L  wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Has a Saturday to visit Houlton, this October, been decided upon?
>>
>> The link road (from Clifton-upon-dunsmore/butlers leap) wass due to be
>> opened imminently, although it was scheduled “late september/early october”
>> and now it sounds like December.
>>
>>
>>
>> A lot more construction work is underway, to the west of the visitors
>> centre - closer to hillmorton - although my brief passing through the other
>> night made it look mostly like groundwork and foundations, with a portion
>> of the crick road having a lane closure and a trench dug along it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gareth
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[Talk-GB] 24 hour mapathon - Aberconwy

[Rob Nickerson]

Today is the day of the Aberconwy mapathon. At any point during the day if
you can spare a few minutes to look at Aberconwy that would be great.

We're looking at this region:
http://geojson.io/#data=data:text/x-url,https%3A%2F%2Fons-inspire.esriuk.com%2Farcgis%2Frest%2Fservices%2FElectoral_Boundaries%2FWestminster_Parliamentary_Constituencies_December_2018_UK_BGC%2FMapServer%2F0%2Fquery%3Ff%3Dgeojson%26where%3Dpcon18cd%2520%253D%2520%2527W0758%2527%26returnGeometry%3Dtrue

Maybe you can find something mapped using the old NPE source which can be
updated using latest open data/imagery.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_24_hour_mapathons

Thank you,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK volunteers required

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Edward,

Sorry for the slow reply, you caught me at a busy time.

I think 2 and 3 are quite similar. Perhaps you could argue that 3 is more
focused on non public sector. Maybe we get improved content on our website
and  some leaflets ready (if needed) and then start sharing that content.
It might also include building our contacts so that we can answer more of
the questions we may receive.

The lobby element in 3 is possibly more focused on public sector. We've
made a start over the last year by responding to the government's
Geospatial Commission. Next steps would be to keep an eye out for similar
consultation opportunities whilst also looking for other avenues to do
direct promotion of OSM.

In any case across 2 and 3 we want to consider both public and private
sector - we'd like OSM to be embedded within all sectors.

As for 1, we've put out a call for ideas on the loomio group. Next step is
to see what contacts we have and start approaching them. I think it will be
easier if we have existing relationships but if not then we should try from
scratch.

So in summary it's quite an open scope. Ideas and suggestions welcome and
let's take it forward from there.

I'd be happy to take more questions on email or arrange a quick chat /
call. Let me know what works for you.

Best regards,
Rob

On Thu, 26 Sep 2019, 09:09 Edward Bainton,  wrote:

> Thank you, I think I could do a bit on 1, 2, and/or 3.
>
> 1, 3. Do you have brief case studies you could share as examples of what
> you're looking for?
>
> 2. Could you clarify what a 'lobby group' would lobby for?
>
> Thanks and best wishes
>
> Edward
>
>
>
> On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 22:33, Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Last month OSM UK (the non-profit community interest company) set out
>> it's strategy areas for the 2019/20 year. We have made a start on these but
>> a bit more volunteer time will allow us to speed them up.
>>
>> If you could volunteer some time for any of the following, please let me
>> know. Each requires some initial planning before implementing solutions.
>> Help at either stage is appreciated.
>>
>>1. Use the quarterly projects to partner with another organisation to
>>leverage their membership/supporters.
>>2. Pursue a role as a lobby group. That is, getting OSM on the radar
>>of large organisations.
>>3. Proactive outreach to businesses, organisations and academia to
>>show them a front door to using and contributing to OSM.
>>4. Enhance / nurture the Talent Directory.
>>5. Help shape tagging guidelines.
>>6. Develop guidelines to work out when OSM UK should and should not
>>support a mechanical edit / data import.
>>7. A micro-grant programme to support those who want to help us grow
>>the community via talks, workshops, etc.
>>8. Focus on map fixes (e.g. a quarterly project on Notes, Fixmes).
>>9. Assist with conflating TfL Cycle Infrastructure Data into OSM
>>
>> Thank you,
>> *Rob*
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[Talk-GB] 24 hour mapathon - Aberconwy

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

I've not done a great deal of publicity about these, but as a reminder the
next 24 hour mapathon is coming up next Wednesday. This time we are mapping
Aberconwy.

There's no need to plan anything but feel free to do some prep if you like.
Just take a look at that bit of the map at any stage during the 24 hour
period. If you spot something you can add/update/improve go for it.
Alternatively just see how it's mapping compares to regions you're more
familiar with.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_24_hour_mapathons

Thank you,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] Resurrecting the 'find the missing paths for 2026' project

[Rob Nickerson]

David wrote:

>In other threads, I sense quite a strong lobby for only mapping rights of
way that are so marked on the ground and ignoring any designation that only
appears in a map.

That's news to me! Given that you say "strong" I must assume that you refer
to something other than talk-gb(?). For sure it is preferable to have a
sign on the ground but I don't agree that a Local Authorities failure to
signpost a right of way is justification for us to ignore such an important
piece of information. We have some fantastic supplementary sources of (open
data) information that many within the OpenStreetMap community have fought
hard for. Let's use them - I know I do and will continue to do so :-)

By the way, if you extend your logic beyond rights of way then we'd have to
delete lots of data which is still based upon tracing the old NPE maps and
downgrade/delete a whole swathe of data which is wholly or partly based in
aerial imagery. As such you can see why I disagree wholeheartedly with your
interpretation. Yes to real surveys and real signposts as much as possible
but no to "cutting off our nose to spite our face".

Best regards
Rob
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[Talk-GB] OSM UK volunteers required

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi,

Last month OSM UK (the non-profit community interest company) set out it's
strategy areas for the 2019/20 year. We have made a start on these but a
bit more volunteer time will allow us to speed them up.

If you could volunteer some time for any of the following, please let me
know. Each requires some initial planning before implementing solutions.
Help at either stage is appreciated.

   1. Use the quarterly projects to partner with another organisation to
   leverage their membership/supporters.
   2. Pursue a role as a lobby group. That is, getting OSM on the radar of
   large organisations.
   3. Proactive outreach to businesses, organisations and academia to show
   them a front door to using and contributing to OSM.
   4. Enhance / nurture the Talent Directory.
   5. Help shape tagging guidelines.
   6. Develop guidelines to work out when OSM UK should and should not
   support a mechanical edit / data import.
   7. A micro-grant programme to support those who want to help us grow the
   community via talks, workshops, etc.
   8. Focus on map fixes (e.g. a quarterly project on Notes, Fixmes).
   9. Assist with conflating TfL Cycle Infrastructure Data into OSM

Thank you,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] Overpass question: Fixmes and surroundings

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

I'm trying to craft a overpass query that returns fixmes and the
surrounding OSM data. I seem to have got it working in Overpass Turbo. I
want to use this in JOSM but it's not returning all the same Ways as seen
in Overpass Turbo.

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Myw

Anyone able to help me please?

Thank you.
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] Next quarters project will be fixmes and notes

[Rob Nickerson]

Great timing. I have just watched the talk online. Very inspirational. It
seems like the OSM Scotland community have set the bar high for us all to
aspire to :-)
https://media.ccc.de/v/sotm2019-1256-notes-can-we-do-better-experiences-and-ideas-from-the-frontline-

One thing that was new to me was the Notes Review website which lets you
see notes by date (colour coded), user or free text search. I am
embarrassed that it reports the average age of my notes as "3 years ago"
and that most of my notes are red (2 years+).
https://ent8r.github.io/NotesReview/

Thank you,
*Rob*


On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 at 15:35, Jez Nicholson  wrote:

> I'm watching Chris Fleming talking on notes at SotM at this very moment.
>
> - Jez
>
> On Sun, 22 Sep 2019, 15:16 Rob Nickerson, 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As we near the end of the current quarterly project (solar power) the
>> time has come to announce the project for Quarter 4 2019.
>>
>> By popular demand when discussing OSM UK's 2019/20 priority areas, the
>> quarterly project will be fixmes and notes.
>>
>> I have already made a start on the wiki page. Please update as you see
>> fit:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_2019_Q4_Project:_Fixmes_and_Notes
>>
>> With best regards,
>> *Rob*
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[Talk-GB] Next quarters project will be fixmes and notes

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

As we near the end of the current quarterly project (solar power) the time
has come to announce the project for Quarter 4 2019.

By popular demand when discussing OSM UK's 2019/20 priority areas, the
quarterly project will be fixmes and notes.

I have already made a start on the wiki page. Please update as you see fit:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_2019_Q4_Project:_Fixmes_and_Notes

With best regards,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] TfL cycle data published - schema mapping

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Martin, all,

I have finished reviewing the proposal for all sections except from signage
(will let someone else review them). I've opened issues and pull requests
on the GitHub for the other things I spotted but have not reported here.

https://github.com/cyclestreets/tflcid-conversion/issues

What are the next steps for this work?

Thank you,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] TfL cycle data published - schema mapping

[Rob Nickerson]

>I'm not sure how representative the associated picture is.

Wonder no more: the cyclestreets website lets you filter for the TfL
category and look at all the photos not just the one that was selected as
representative.
See:
https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid:field%3Aprk_tier=TRUE/#13/51.5119/-0.0757/mapnik

>It would be good to capture covered=yes/no - but this I assume is not in
the TFL data

TfL have spent a massive amount of time collecting some super data. Covered
was in deed one of the things they recorded:
https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#prk_cover

Best regards,
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Re: [Talk-GB] TfL cycle data published - schema mapping

[Rob Nickerson]

I have had a quick look at the cycle parking too. A few comments:

   - You suggest "bicycle_parking=stands" for 3 cases of the TfL data:
   Stands, "M stands" and "P stands". I shall let others comment on whether we
   want to introduce new OSM tags for these. Perhaps cyclists have an interest
   if one is preferable to another. (See:
   https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#prk_mstand)
   - bicycle_parking=locker implies individual compartments for each bike.
   I was about to suggest that this doesn't therefore seem right for TfL's
   "hanger" (https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#prk_hangar).
   Was going to suggest just bicycle_parking=stands + covered=yes. However a
   look at the images suggests that these are all from a single rental company
   and that they are secure spaces which you rent out (see
   https://cyclehoop.force.com/RentalsCommunity/resultsmap?postalCode=se1 )
   given how many there are I am sure London mappers will already have come up
   with a tagging solution... Maybe just locker as you propose and not
   worrying about the fact that 6 bikes share a single locker. Shed seems to
   be the alternate option here.
   - bicycle_parking=cyclehoop seems like a suitable new tag but again I'll
   let others comment as they may have already used some other tag for these.
   - For Secure I would consider bicycle_parking=shed instead of locker.
   The description on the wiki seems to fit better here ("A custom-built
   closed shed...").

Rest looks fine to me and the above is not a blocker - just something to
encourage others to look and have their say.

Thank you,
*Rob*


On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 22:27, Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Hi Martin,
>
> I've started to look at this but only got as far as Advanced Stop Lines
> (ASL) and Crossings. I've raised issues on the GitHub:
> https://github.com/cyclestreets/tflcid-conversion/issues
>
> So far of the new tags I have only reviewed ASL position
> (left/right/center). I'm not a fan of the new tag as I think the name is
> wrong and (more importantly it doesn't allow for mixed cases such as Right
> AND Left). The TfL guide suggests mixed cases are possible. Can you see any
> in the data?
>
> Given that we are talking about the position that the cycle lane feeder
> joins the ASL "reserviour" then my suggestion is to use:
>
>- asl:feeder:right = yes
>- asl:feeder:left = yes
>
> Or some such like.
>
> Best regards,
> *Rob*
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] TfL cycle data published - schema mapping

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Martin,

I've started to look at this but only got as far as Advanced Stop Lines
(ASL) and Crossings. I've raised issues on the GitHub:
https://github.com/cyclestreets/tflcid-conversion/issues

So far of the new tags I have only reviewed ASL position
(left/right/center). I'm not a fan of the new tag as I think the name is
wrong and (more importantly it doesn't allow for mixed cases such as Right
AND Left). The TfL guide suggests mixed cases are possible. Can you see any
in the data?

Given that we are talking about the position that the cycle lane feeder
joins the ASL "reserviour" then my suggestion is to use:

   - asl:feeder:right = yes
   - asl:feeder:left = yes

Or some such like.

Best regards,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] September meeting

[Rob Nickerson]

Works for me.

Best wishes,
Rob

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019, 18:41 Brian Prangle,  wrote:

> Hi everyone
> This was planned for a Saturday meeting and the next place on our list is
> Southam in Warwickshire.
> The only free Saturday I have is 21st so I'm proposing that. If there are
> any takers then I'll look for a pub. Perhaps we advertise on talk GB too if
> we're going ahead?
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
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[Talk-GB] Copyright in OS-derived maps

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi,

In previous conversations with the OS they were keen to point out the "Free
to use data" page.

This one's very wordy but it comes down to how "drawn by the charity,
albeit over an OS base" actually occurred. If it didn't trace over any OS
feature then the "Free to use data" page may apply. If it partly overlaps a
feature then I'm unclear. Either way maybe this is something OSM UK should
be flagging with the geospatial commission.

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/licensing/using-creating-data-with-os-products/free-to-use-data.html

@Jez: you may want to add this to the wiki page as well.

Best,
Rob
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSMTracker for Android - detailed survey of paths & tracks layout

[Rob Nickerson]

Sure I get that from a code point of view, although I was surprised Google
allowed 2 almost identical versions (name and logo) on the store.
Personally I was coming from a marketing and user friendliness point of
view. It's confusing for users and will probably cost the new developer
time in the long run as he/she will probably get some issues raised on
GitHub that relate to the "other" OSM Tracker.

Would have thought a rebrand would have been useful if no way to get the
old app down. Likewise I would have thought a few minutes to make the app
look more maintained on the OSM wiki (e.g. update screenshots, removal of
PDA survey) would of been a help to attract new users.

Anyway, not an issue for me (as I don't use it) so I won't loose any sleep
over this one. Certainly not "upset" just confused by the situation.

*Rob*


On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 at 12:45, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> > Why on earth are there 2 versions of OSMTracker for Android on the Play
> store?!
>
> It's open source software, so it's fairly technically straightforward to
> "clone, modify and resubmit".  What restrictions Google put on this sort of
> thing currently I don't know, but I suspect they're mostly limited to an
> API usage check and a " dodgy code behaviour" check (that'd be the case for
> an Enterprise Play Store submission).
>
> > Which is the right one and how to get an old one removed?
>
> Maybe there isn't one "right one" ?  My recollection was that there was a
> problem with OSM-hosted tile usage in one of the versions (which may have
> been since resolved) and there was a bit of a delay getting it fxed.
> Perhaps someone fixed it in "another" version in the meantime?
>
> Whatever it is, I'd suggest that the best place to ask the question would
> be to the relevant app authors via the Play Store support link, or github
> (at least one of them has a public issues list there).
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSMTracker for Android - detailed survey of paths & tracks layout

[Rob Nickerson]

Why on earth are there 2 versions of OSMTracker for Android on the Play
store?! How is that in any way user friendly? Which is the right one and
how to get an old one removed?

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.guillaumin.android.osmtracker
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmtracker

I also find the "PDA display resolution survey" on the wiki incredible.
Gives me the impression that this is not maintained software. The
screenshots are massively out of date too. Anyone willing to do a quick
update?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSMTracker_(Android)

Thanks,
*Rob*
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[Talk-GB] (no subject)

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

The following from Dorothea at OSMF. We'll see what scope there is for OSM
UK to answer (likely just re-iterating our aims and membership size). I
encourage individuals to respond too.

Best wishes
Rob

Hello,

The following survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap
was developed by board members. The survey is not quantitative and its
aim is to stimulate  discussions in local communities and at the Local
Chapters Congress at SotM.
https://osmf.limequery.org/428835

~ The survey will run for two weeks.
~ Only one question is mandatory: "How can we share your answers?".

There is more information on the scope of the survey and approach on the
opening page.

warm greetings,

Dorothea
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[Talk-GB] Solar project: Press interview

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

I've been a bit slow to the solar mapping project but have now picked up
the baton for outreach. If we can get some press lined up do we have any
volunteers to speak with them?

Thanks,
*Rob*
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] August meetup

[Rob Nickerson]

I have a feeling that we talked about changing August to a Saturday, but
then time has slipped past and August is now on top of us. What do you
think - should we look for a rescheduled Saturday meeting?
*Rob*


On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 at 16:51, Eike Ritter via Talk-gb-westmidlands <
talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Is there a meeting tonight?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Eike
>
>
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[Talk-GB] TfL cycle data published

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

The email below is from TfL announcing the release of the cycle data. I'm
copying in Martin to this email as he was working on this Talent Directory
project so can hopefully provide a comment on the licence.

Taking a look myself it is an OGL v2 licence which is good. TfL muddy the
water slightly in that they are applying the licence to data obtainable via
an API. They therefore include statements about it being the users
responsibility to check the page for updates to the licence and that by
running a new API call you are accepting the new licence. For us I think we
are fine in that we download the data once (rather than regularly via their
API) and the licence when you download it grants perpetual use.

OGL v2 can sometimes suffer from it's clause about not covering third party
rights the data provider is not entitled to provide (e.g. Royal Mail
Postcodes) but a previous (off list) chat with Martin suggested we are ok
on that front.

Clarification welcomed.
*Rob*

---

Dear all



Having engaged with yourself previously about the Cycling Infrastructure
Database (CID), we are delighted to let you know that the CID is now live.



London’s Cycling Infrastructure Database is the world’s largest and most
comprehensive database of cycling infrastructure, containing comprehensive
details of cycling infrastructure in the Capital. The CID is intended to
address barriers to cycling by providing Londoners with clear and accurate
information about cycling infrastructure, helping them plan cycle journeys
with confidence. The CID is a core part of our Cycling Action Plan
which sets out how TfL,
boroughs and others will work together to make London the world’s best big
city for cycling.

To create the database, TfL have surveyed every street in every London
borough to collect information on over 240,000 pieces of infrastructure,
covering an area of 1,595 square kilometres. The database also contains
480,000 photographs of cycling infrastructure, allowing users to see
exactly what can be found on street. For example, cycle parking users will
be able to see what type of parking is available. TfL collected data of
146,000 cycle parking spaces across London, as well as gathering
information on 2,000km of cycle routes and 58,000 wayfinding signs.

The following types of asset are included in the database:

   - Cycle lanes and tracks – including whether they are segregated or
   painted lanes
   - Cycle parking, including the type and capacity of parking
   - Signalised crossings for cycles
   - Restricted route - Modal filters and traffic gates which allow cycles
   to pass but restrict car traffic
   - Traffic calming, including the location of all speed humps in Greater
   London
   - Advanced stop lines – boxes at junctions for people cycling
   - Signals - early-release signals at junctions
   - Signage - Signed cycle routes and other wayfinding
   - Restricted Points – points where people cycling will have to dismount
   Paths through parks and other green spaces that can, and cannot, be cycled
   on.

The CID is accessible in geojson format via the following platforms:



*TfL Open Data Portal:* https://cycling.data.tfl.gov.uk/
(CycleInfrastructure/Data & CycleInfrastructure/Documentation)



*London Datastore:*
https://data.london.gov.uk/dataset/cycling-infrastructure-database?q=CID



The CID is continuously being maintained by TfL. Please do let us know if
you have any asset updates or data related queries.



https://www.intelligenttransport.com/transport-news/85603/worlds-largest-cycling-database/



Regards,



*TfL CID Team*
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[Talk-GB] Question from Amazon on tracks vs service roads

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

Please see the following diary post where help is sought in converting
ground surveys in to map edits.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jguthula/diary/390322

Best regards,
Rob
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[Talk-GB] Fwd: Source of extra street imagery

[Rob Nickerson]

-- Forwarded message -
From:Rob Nickerson (OSMUK)


All,

Comma.ai was suggested at our OSM UK annual gathering as a potential source
of more street level imagery. They have hardware, some of which taps
directly in to the cameras already being installed in some cars.

A quick check on GitHub suggests that this might be a goer. Anyone
interested?

https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/issues/719#issuecomment-507427490

Regards,
Rob
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Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Saturday mapping event: 22 June in Wombourne

[Rob Nickerson]

Thanks - I'm looking forward to it.

This email is cross-posted to talk-gb. I've been a while since the West
Midlands "Mappa Mercia" group put event email out to talk-gb.

Please see details below.

Best regards,
*Rob*


On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 at 20:29, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> This month's monthly meeting will be on Saturday 22 June in order to give
> us  most of the day to map Wombourne
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6924456#map=12/52.5489/-2.2000>
> in South Staffs. Pub meetup for lunch at 1pm at the Waggon and Horses
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/160946002#map=14/52.5287/-2.2024>
> which is a canalside Banks's pub and looks like it has  good menu. Lots of
> gaps to map, sparse level of detail - which is why we picked it of course.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 9:59 PM Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We suggested a Saturday mapping event in June in Wombourne,
>> Staffordshire. This will be on 22 June. Brian has kindly offered to pick a
>> pub / cafe.
>>
>> P.S. I see this is the same date as the next Norwich meeting [1]. Given
>> that this is quite a long trip for us (2hr 30min from Coventry, longer if
>> starting from further away), I hope that this is not a conflict.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2019-June/022994.html
>>
>> *Rob*
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Saturday mapping event: 22 June in Wombourne

[Rob Nickerson]

Thanks - I'm looking forward to it.

This email is cross-posted to talk-gb. I've been a while since the West
Midlands "Mappa Mercia" group put event email out to talk-gb.

Please see details below.

Best regards,
*Rob*


On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 at 20:29, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> This month's monthly meeting will be on Saturday 22 June in order to give
> us  most of the day to map Wombourne
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6924456#map=12/52.5489/-2.2000>
> in South Staffs. Pub meetup for lunch at 1pm at the Waggon and Horses
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/160946002#map=14/52.5287/-2.2024>
> which is a canalside Banks's pub and looks like it has  good menu. Lots of
> gaps to map, sparse level of detail - which is why we picked it of course.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
> On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 9:59 PM Rob Nickerson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We suggested a Saturday mapping event in June in Wombourne,
>> Staffordshire. This will be on 22 June. Brian has kindly offered to pick a
>> pub / cafe.
>>
>> P.S. I see this is the same date as the next Norwich meeting [1]. Given
>> that this is quite a long trip for us (2hr 30min from Coventry, longer if
>> starting from further away), I hope that this is not a conflict.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2019-June/022994.html
>>
>> *Rob*
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>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Adjacent nature reserves

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Martin,

I echo Gareth, Mateusz and Warin's view that this should have stayed mapped
as separate nature reserves. The previous areas would have (hopefully)
marked the legal boundary of the individual nature reserves - something
which we have now lost. I see for example that the area you have now marked
as Burlish Top Nature Reserve is much smaller than it used to be.

Old:
https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=71023754

New:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/506211512

I'm also finding it very difficult to see what you are changing as you have
created so many changesets and they all have the same description (
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Martin%20Wynne/history#map=13/52.3652/-2.2799).
Would it please be possible to create fewer changesets and/or provide more
detailed changeset comments.

You may wish to ask Andy to help with reverting this as he will have plenty
of experience from his role in the Data Working Group. The fact that it is
over many changesets makes it too challenging for me.

Best regards,
*Rob*
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Saturday mapping event: 22 June in Wombourne

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi all,

We suggested a Saturday mapping event in June in Wombourne, Staffordshire.
This will be on 22 June. Brian has kindly offered to pick a pub / cafe.

P.S. I see this is the same date as the next Norwich meeting [1]. Given
that this is quite a long trip for us (2hr 30min from Coventry, longer if
starting from further away), I hope that this is not a conflict.

[1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2019-June/022994.html

*Rob*
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