Crossing Drive
Chesterfield, MO 63017
Office: 314-628-5400
Fax: 314-628-5508
Direct: 314-628-5407
-Original Message-
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 23:00:45 -0400
From: "David ``Smith''"
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Street Naming Conventions
To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID:
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Phil! Gold wrote:
> * David ``Smith'' [2010-05-14 23:58 -0400]:
>> 5) The value of "addr:street=*" should contain the abbreviated form of
>> the street name according to USPS standards, regardless of the way the
>> street name is signed.
>
> The point of addr:str
Do "Old Olive Street Rd" and "Old Olive St Rd" have overlapping street
numbers?
No, then the street number distinguishes location.
If Yes then do the rest of the address match up?
No this time then the rest of the address distinguishes location.
If Yes again, someone messed up the street naming.
U
Lord-Castillo, Brett wrote:
>The road that now bears all the "Olive" names was originally Plank Rd, the
>major road through St Louis County when it was rural. The main road went
>through several name changes (Plank Rd, Olive Rd, Olive St, Olive Street Rd,
>Olive Blvd). But, it also was realigned
Hi,
Phil! Gold wrote:
> * David ``Smith'' [2010-05-14 23:58 -0400]:
>> 5) The value of "addr:street=*" should contain the abbreviated form of
>> the street name according to USPS standards, regardless of the way the
>> street name is signed.
>
> The point of addr:street is to associate the addre
* David ``Smith'' [2010-05-14 23:58 -0400]:
> 5) The value of "addr:street=*" should contain the abbreviated form of
> the street name according to USPS standards, regardless of the way the
> street name is signed.
The point of addr:street is to associate the address to a particular road,
so its
illo
Information Systems Designer/GIS Programmer
St. Louis County Police
Office of Emergency Management
14847 Ladue Bluffs Crossing Drive
Chesterfield, MO 63017
Office: 314-628-5400
Fax: 314-628-5508
Direct: 314-628-5407
-Original Message-----
Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 16:44:43 -040
Hi,
On 15 May 2010 05:58, David ``Smith'' wrote:
> I now believe that it is /also/ acceptable for the
> "name=*" tag to specify the full, unabbreviated name -- however, if
> abbreviation of that name is used commonly and consistently, then that
> abbreviated form should go in another tag. (I've
I happen to know the answer to this one. I'll save Brett the trouble of
replying again, and point you to an earlier explanation in this thread.
(Though being so long, I don't blame you for not seeing it the first
time around.)
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2010-April/003087.ht
Dale Puch wrote:
>On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
>> Lord-Castillo, Brett wrote:
>>> But another good one close to us is "Old Olive Street Rd" and "Old Olive
>>> St Rd" (both official names for different sections of the road). These two
>>> streets run parallel to Olive St,
If "Old Olive Street Rd" and "Old Olive St Rd" are one road, ie. connected
and not and a corner. Then things that may explain it are different
addresses where they intersect, or if they are in different jurisdictions.
Like where two cities meet. But if the addressing continues between the
differe
Lord-Castillo, Brett wrote:
>But another good one close to us is "Old Olive Street Rd" and "Old Olive St
>Rd" (both official names for different sections of the road). These two
>streets run parallel to Olive St, Olive Street Rd, and Olive Blvd (all three
>of these are different roads).
So if "
t;Old Olive Street".
Not sure if four separate fields will create more data entry errors, or will
create more attention to detail.
Brett Lord-Castillo
Information Systems Designer/GIS Programmer
St. Louis County Police
Office of Emergency Management
14847 Ladue Bluffs Crossing Drive
Chesterfield,
I'm glad this issue is being discussed, and I'm glad there seems to be
so much support on both sides now. In my usual style, I'll just make
a quick post here to explain my personal position on the matter.
(This thread has gone far beyond the point at which it would be
appropriate to reply to anyon
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 20:18, Val Kartchner wrote:
> This topic has been dropped without it having been resolved. We still
> need some way of addressing the issues summarized in
> "http://vidthekid.info/misc/osm-abbr.html";. This can be summarized as
> needing to create fields for:
>
> directi
This topic has been dropped without it having been resolved. We still
need some way of addressing the issues summarized in
"http://vidthekid.info/misc/osm-abbr.html";. This can be summarized as
needing to create fields for:
direction prefix
street name
street type
direction suffix
This
At 2010-04-21 19:24, Alan Mintz wrote:
>I just had a machine crash as I was trying to find stats, but I'll bet that
>at least 90% of the cases are "St"...
For further reference, in this area of LA: minlat="33.75" minlon="-119.00"
maxlat="34.00" maxlon="-114.50", on 2010-02-11, I count:
35988 uni
First of all, I've renamed the subject to what it is really discussing.
On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 19:24 -0700, Alan Mintz wrote:
> name: The pre-balrog name
> name_direction_prefix: The 1-2 char cardinal direction before the root
> use_name_direction_prefix: {yes|no} Yes indicates that the
> name_dir
The traffic has calmed down. I still want some things resolved before I
agree with expanding street names.
1) Be useful to the user. (This is mostly done via programs.)
2) Be simple for automated processing (programs)
a) Render in an uncluttered way on the maps
c) Look up addresses on maps
On 8 April 2010 01:09, andrzej zaborowski wrote:
> As for the different segments of
> the name, there are already fields for them which we inherited from
> TIGER, you'll find the "middle" of the name is unmodified in the
> tiger:base_name= tag, the cardinal direction in
> tiger:directional_prefix=
andrzej zaborowski writes:
> On 9 April 2010 15:30, Matthias Julius wrote:
>> Val Kartchner writes:
>>
>>> 3) Prefix, body, suffix is available from the TIGER data, but what about
>>> streets that have already been added (or corrected) by users? As we've
>>> seen, a bot won't always be able to
On 10 April 2010 11:07, Richard Finegold wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 20:32, Val Kartchner wrote:
>> On Thu, 2010-04-08 at 00:59 +0200, andrzej zaborowski wrote:
>>> On 7 April 2010 20:12, Mike Thompson wrote:
>>> > Having said that, I think it is a bad idea to have a bot going
>> through
>>>
On 9 April 2010 15:30, Matthias Julius wrote:
> Val Kartchner writes:
>
>> 3) Prefix, body, suffix is available from the TIGER data, but what about
>> streets that have already been added (or corrected) by users? As we've
>> seen, a bot won't always be able to correctly make these separations (a
On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 07:42 -0700, Richard Finegold wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 04:51, Alex S. wrote:
> > Richard Finegold wrote:
> >> see http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/53224246 that
> >> has "West Lake Sammamish Parkway" as its base name. I'm guessing that
> >> the lack of directi
On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 04:51, Alex S. wrote:
> Richard Finegold wrote:
>> see http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/53224246 that
>> has "West Lake Sammamish Parkway" as its base name. I'm guessing that
>> the lack of direction prefix was a data mistake.
>
> East... And no, (IMHO, anyway) it'
Richard Finegold wrote:
> see http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/53224246 that
> has "West Lake Sammamish Parkway" as its base name. I'm guessing that
> the lack of direction prefix was a data mistake.
East... And no, (IMHO, anyway) it's not a data mistake, though
including it on West Lk S
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 20:32, Val Kartchner wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-04-08 at 00:59 +0200, andrzej zaborowski wrote:
>> On 7 April 2010 20:12, Mike Thompson wrote:
>> > Having said that, I think it is a bad idea to have a bot going
> through
>> > and attempting to expand abbreviations.
I agree. If
Alex Mauer wrote:
> On 04/08/2010 10:32 PM, Val Kartchner wrote:
>> 6) Should the direction prefix even be part of the street name since it
>> (mostly) isn't on the sign?
>
> That’s not true in all areas. I’m in Wisconsin, and in most cities I’ve
> been to, if the street has a direction prefix it
andrzej zaborowski writes:
> On 9 April 2010 15:06, Matthias Julius wrote:
>> Val Kartchner writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 2010-04-08 at 12:23 -0400, Richard Welty wrote:
i don't think anyone would argue with this. it's why having a bot
rampage through
"fixing" things is probably a Real
On 04/08/2010 10:32 PM, Val Kartchner wrote:
> 6) Should the direction prefix even be part of the street name since it
> (mostly) isn't on the sign?
That’s not true in all areas. I’m in Wisconsin, and in most cities I’ve
been to, if the street has a direction prefix it’s on the sign
(abbreviated
Val Kartchner writes:
> 3) Prefix, body, suffix is available from the TIGER data, but what about
> streets that have already been added (or corrected) by users? As we've
> seen, a bot won't always be able to correctly make these separations (as
> in the example of "Southbay" vs. "South Bay" give
On 9 April 2010 15:06, Matthias Julius wrote:
> Val Kartchner writes:
>
>> On Thu, 2010-04-08 at 12:23 -0400, Richard Welty wrote:
>>> i don't think anyone would argue with this. it's why having a bot
>>> rampage through
>>> "fixing" things is probably a Real Bad Idea unless it's extremely well
>
Val Kartchner writes:
> On Thu, 2010-04-08 at 12:23 -0400, Richard Welty wrote:
>> i don't think anyone would argue with this. it's why having a bot
>> rampage through
>> "fixing" things is probably a Real Bad Idea unless it's extremely well
>> thought out
>> and comprehensively tested beforeha
One hopes the de-Bot-ing Bot will leave alone areas what weren't botted or
have no "tiger:name_base" tags.
Here in Boston, we have *massgis:way_id*= instead of tiger:* tags, and are
unabbreviated.
Sadly the naming conventions in the so called 'real world' (or the 1:1 scale
map :-) are not well fol
Err, well you brought them up ;) But yes I guess this would largly be
directed towards the bot master.
E Ave example the bot needs to not change E to east despite it being the
first item. The logic would be that there is no base name if E is changed
to east ans Ave changed to Avenue. Deciding t
On Thu, 2010-04-08 at 23:43 -0400, Dale Puch wrote:
> With regards to E Ave Check for a base name if all is matched. If
> nothing is left, leave the name alone.
> I'm not sure what you asking about with Southbay vs South bay Are you
> trying to figure out if the bot should add or remove the spac
With regards to E Ave Check for a base name if all is matched. If nothing
is left, leave the name alone.
I'm not sure what you asking about with Southbay vs South bay Are you
trying to figure out if the bot should add or remove the space? If so,
leave that for manual edits.
Dale
On Thu, Apr 8
On Thu, 2010-04-08 at 12:23 -0400, Richard Welty wrote:
> i don't think anyone would argue with this. it's why having a bot
> rampage through
> "fixing" things is probably a Real Bad Idea unless it's extremely well
> thought out
> and comprehensively tested beforehand.
While I didn't like what t
On Thu, 2010-04-08 at 00:59 +0200, andrzej zaborowski wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 7 April 2010 20:12, Mike Thompson wrote:
> > Having said that, I think it is a bad idea to have a bot going
through
> > and attempting to expand abbreviations.
>
> I ran the bot ([1]) over the west half of the US [...]
> [
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Lord-Castillo, Brett <
blord-casti...@stlouisco.com> wrote:
> River City Blvd/River City Casino Blvd; many people think the first is an
> abbreviation of the former. It isn't, two different streets that will route
> mail (and traffic) to two different sets of addres
Since I raised the issue at some point in this thread of whether a bot
should be used for fixing abbreviations I will respond. What Dale is
proposing makes a lot of sense.
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Dale Puch wrote:
> Perhaps we should take a look at what a bot would match.
>
> Run a bot th
On 8 April 2010 22:40, Dale Puch wrote:
> Using a bot for specific well know Suffix abbreviations only should be
> reasonably safe. IE never change ST to street if it is a prefix sort of
> rules.
TIGER specifies which qualifiers can appear as prefixes and which as
suffixes. Unfortunately a lot
Perhaps we should take a look at what a bot would match.
Run a bot that finds and counts the various matches and outputs a report
only. pre, mid and suffix counts the abbreviations. and what the bot would
expand each abbreviation to.
Abbreviations in the middle should be located, but probably not
Using a bot for specific well know Suffix abbreviations only should be
reasonably safe. IE never change ST to street if it is a prefix sort of
rules.
Dale
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Richard Welty wrote:
> On 4/8/10 9:48 AM, Lord-Castillo, Brett wrote:
> > One issue with using unabbreviate
all over upstate NY, you will see "Fred Street" in town, and "Fred
Street Road" extending
out into the county...
richard
On 4/8/10 4:20 PM, Brad Neuhauser wrote:
> For another oddball example, there are some names like "Upper 35th St
> Cir" or "McKusick Rd Ct" (which are offshoots of Upper 35th
For another oddball example, there are some names like "Upper 35th St
Cir" or "McKusick Rd Ct" (which are offshoots of Upper 35th St and
McKusick Rd, respectively) in some Minnesota suburbs.
Brad
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Mike Thompson wrote:
>>
>>> my experience is that directional is a p
Oops did not send this to the group
Dale
-- Forwarded message --
From: Dale Puch
Date: Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Street Naming Conventions
To: andrzej zaborowski
In my explanation of what I think would be best the comma separated examples
are only to
>
>> my experience is that directional is a prefix not a suffix
>
> Portland OR is full of prefixes. Seattle WA is full of suffixes.
> Certainly TIGER has them because they occur plenty of places in the US.
In Washington DC
* S Capitol St SW
* S Capitol St SE
* N Capitol St NW
* N Capitol St NE
*
t: Thursday, April 08, 2010 12:23 PM
To: Lord-Castillo, Brett
Cc: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Street Naming Conventions
On 8 April 2010 15:48, Lord-Castillo, Brett
wrote:
> One issue with using unabbreviated names, is sometimes the abbreviations are
> part of the official
On 8 April 2010 15:48, Lord-Castillo, Brett
wrote:
> One issue with using unabbreviated names, is sometimes the abbreviations are
> part of the official name.
> Examples here:
> 1st Community CU Dr (First Community Credit Union goes to a -different-
> address)
> River City Blvd/River City Casino
> my experience is that directional is a prefix not a suffix
Portland OR is full of prefixes. Seattle WA is full of suffixes.
Certainly TIGER has them because they occur plenty of places in the US.
> name:nonabbrev=
> name=
> advatage is that rendering doesn't need to change and will use same
> my experience is that directional is a prefix not a suffix
I have seen directionals as suffixes, and in some cases a street will
have both a prefix and suffix directional
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org
On 8 Apr 2010, at 9:42 , am12 wrote:
>
>>> Some of the examples comma separated into the 4 field format:
>>> South, ,1000 East, Street
>
>> Paul Johnson mentioned on IRC today the case of East Doctor Martin
>> Luther King, Junior Boulevard, which wouldn't work with this schema
>
> I don't thin
>> Some of the examples comma separated into the 4 field format:
>> South, ,1000 East, Street
> Paul Johnson mentioned on IRC today the case of East Doctor Martin
> Luther King, Junior Boulevard, which wouldn't work with this schema
I don't think *storing* them as comma separated was the suggest
On 4/8/10 9:48 AM, Lord-Castillo, Brett wrote:
> One issue with using unabbreviated names, is sometimes the abbreviations are
> part of the official name.
> Examples here:
> 1st Community CU Dr (First Community Credit Union goes to a -different-
> address)
> River City Blvd/River City Casino Blvd
Drive
Chesterfield, MO 63017
Office: 314-628-5400
Fax: 314-628-5508
Direct: 314-628-5407
-Original Message-
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 09:42:42 -0400
From: Matthias Julius
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Street Naming Conventions
To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Message-ID: <87bpdv8jl9@julius
Hi Val,
you send the mail to me only, you might want to resend to list.
On 8 April 2010 08:31, Val Kartchner wrote:
> 5) Should suggestions be given to renderers to use the USPS
> abbreviations?
Another possibility is to use the TIGER guidelines, if the USPS list
has issues related to copyright.
On 8 April 2010 00:13, Dale Puch wrote:
> Personally I like the 3 field, or event the 4 field storage of the name.
> Yes that means there is not a single field that has the full name, but I do
> not think a lookup and concat of 4 fields vs 1 field is much different in an
> indexed database. Perha
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:36:11 -0600, Val Kartchner wrote:
> Using USPS abbreviations is the convention used by all commercial online
> mapping providers that I've seen. (i.e.: maps.google.com,
> maps.yahoo.com, www.bing.com/maps ) I think that OSM should adopt the
> same convention.
That's a ren
Hi,
On 7 April 2010 20:12, Mike Thompson wrote:
> Having said that, I think it is a bad idea to have a bot going through
> and attempting to expand abbreviations.
I ran the bot ([1]) over the west half of the US because me and
another mapper in Portland, OR were tired of correcting the names
man
It would probably be best to have both the 'as displayed' name, and 'as
spoken' in the tags. Anything else you have to make assumptions that may or
may not be right.
If both are not stored, the next best alternative seems to be having the
full spoken name in the tags, but have seprate prefix(direc
I have worked with these issues for a number of years in my
professional life. We have found that it is better to spell out
street names. As Matthias pointed out, it is far easier to convert a
named that is spelled out to one that is abbreviated than the other
way around. I have seen far too man
>What do people think?
It is easy (I think) to know what "St", "Ave", and "Blvd" mean at the end
of the name. The rest of them aren't always clear. I recently had to
figure out what a "Lp" was ("Loop" - this one was new to me).
I used to live on "Southbay Drive". I would get mail addressed as
andrzej zaborowski writes:
> Hi,
>
> On 7 April 2010 07:36, Val Kartchner wrote:
>> The "Editing Standards and
>> Conventions"
>> ("http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editing_Standards_and_Conventions";)
>> page says: "In the name tag, enter the full name as it appears on the street
>> name s
On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 6:09 AM, Eric Christensen
wrote:
> On 04/07/2010 03:20 AM, Gregory Arenius wrote:
>> I would also like to note though that the USPS abbreviations list is
>> copyright the USPS. We'd probably have to recreate a similar list if we
>> really wanted to make it our own just so t
On 04/07/2010 03:20 AM, Gregory Arenius wrote:
> I would also like to note though that the USPS abbreviations list is
> copyright the USPS. We'd probably have to recreate a similar list if we
> really wanted to make it our own just so that our standard is something
> we can put in our own document
Hi,
On 7 April 2010 07:36, Val Kartchner wrote:
> The "Editing Standards and
> Conventions"
> ("http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editing_Standards_and_Conventions";) page
> says: "In the name tag, enter the full name as it appears on the street name
> signs. [...] Do not abbreviate words."
The USPS abbreviations are listed here:
http://www.usps.com/ncsc/lookups/usps_abbreviations.html
How do the commercial maps deal with this in other English speaking
countries? Do they vary by country or do they use the USPS standard
throughout? If they vary by country are we sure we want to do t
At 2010-04-06 22:36, Val Kartchner wrote:
>...
>
>Using USPS abbreviations is the convention used by all commercial online
>mapping providers that I've seen. (i.e.: maps.google.com,
>maps.yahoo.com, www.bing.com/maps ) I think that OSM should adopt the
>same convention.
>
>What do people think?
The "Editing Standards and
Conventions"
("http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editing_Standards_and_Conventions";) page
says: "In the name tag, enter the full name as it appears on the street name
signs. [...] Do not abbreviate words."
Some sample ACTUAL street signs around here say "14th Stree
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