Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[john whelan]

I think there is a great deal to be said for holding SotM in different
locations.

The trouble is finding them.

Running a successful conference like this is quite a lot of work.

Locations that are used to holding conferences will have experienced teams
that exist.

Other locations will have to put together something from scratch which will
be more work so just coaxing people to do the work to put in a submission
is a major effort.

For Africa the ideal location would be one that is visa free for most
African countries.  Kenya may well be the African country that allows visa
free travel from the most African countries but it does require visas for
most African countries.

Then you get safety.  Is OpenStreetMap a terrorist target?  Unfortunately
the answer is yes.  If I wish to destabilise a country then I want to grab
any food aid and only supply my supporters.  So NGOs and OpenStreetMap
become targets.

Nairobi has been hit by terrorist attacks in the past.

I suspect there are safer African countries but you need to plan ahead and
what might be safe today might have it's government overthrown by a coup
tomorrow.

Then you get people voting with their feet.  SotM EU and SotM US may
attract more attendees and more interesting presenters.  How do you deal
with SotM becoming a side show?

Accessibility Oxford Street in London has roughly 1.5 million people within
a 45 minute journey by public transport.  I'm unsure what the numbers for
Nairobi are but the higher the number of locals the higher the number of
people who might attend.

Same sort of comment for longer distances.  What sort of destinations and
what frequency are available at the airport?  Any long distance trains
available?

One comment made to me by someone who attends a number of OpenStreetMap
conferences was at least they could take a bit of time looking at Ottawa.
Often they only saw the inside of the hotel and the conference building
which sometimes were the same building.  Apparently these days modern
hotels all look the same.

How do you ensure that this one would be any different?

My feeling is getting HOT and WHO involved might up the chances of success.

Cheerio John


On Tue, Aug 22, 2023, 19:28 o_andras  wrote:

> Hi fellow humans!
>
> (replying to the top email to avoid accidentally pointing fingers, lest
> anyone think I'm accusing them of anything; it's intended to be more of
> an introspection guide)
>
>
> I find it disheartening that "open and diverse" nowadays seems to mean
> "exclusive". The rules created to foster diversity and whatnot exclude
> too, turns out! So much for diversity...
>
> Of course, this is not news, I'm not the first to think it or even to
> say it (unfortunately I'm not the most expressive either; let's hope I
> can get the message across). Is it taboo to talk about it? I've seen
> others expressing this sentiment and being shunned for it.
>
> Can't the (possibly) affected part of the community understand this? A
> SotM hosted in a "western" country (strong emphasis on the quotes!),
> maybe it's welcomming to the global community -- we the "westerners" are
> so much better after all (that was sarcasm, if you couldn't tell...)
> But is it accessible to the global community?
>
> And didn't you, a "westerner", get the chance of attending several SotMs
> already? And are you part of the OSM community to "westernize" the
> "non-westerners"? Never thought of going to other places to learn
> different ways of life, etc?
>
> Being "good" or "bad" is not so clear-cut, either. There are some better
> things and some worse things. Being worse at something doesn't make it
> worse at everything.
>
> Certainly, not everyone in a given country is the same. You should know
> -- can you positively say there's no discrimination in your own country,
> just because you yourself don't discriminate in your own country? I wish
> you and I both could...
>
>
> OSM or the SotM isn't your own toy, that you can lend for others to play
> with. It's more of a leisure=playground; access=yes. Let everyone have
> their turn. If you don't want to go down the slide today (no matter the
> reason), go to the swing. The slide will be there for you another day.
>
>
> PS: please avoid replying with examples of extremism. From my pov it's
> not relevant to the SotM discussion.
>
> Best regards,
> o_andras
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[o_andras]

Hi fellow humans!

(replying to the top email to avoid accidentally pointing fingers, lest 
anyone think I'm accusing them of anything; it's intended to be more of 
an introspection guide)



I find it disheartening that "open and diverse" nowadays seems to mean 
"exclusive". The rules created to foster diversity and whatnot exclude 
too, turns out! So much for diversity...


Of course, this is not news, I'm not the first to think it or even to 
say it (unfortunately I'm not the most expressive either; let's hope I 
can get the message across). Is it taboo to talk about it? I've seen 
others expressing this sentiment and being shunned for it.


Can't the (possibly) affected part of the community understand this? A 
SotM hosted in a "western" country (strong emphasis on the quotes!), 
maybe it's welcomming to the global community -- we the "westerners" are 
so much better after all (that was sarcasm, if you couldn't tell...) 
But is it accessible to the global community?


And didn't you, a "westerner", get the chance of attending several SotMs 
already? And are you part of the OSM community to "westernize" the 
"non-westerners"? Never thought of going to other places to learn 
different ways of life, etc?


Being "good" or "bad" is not so clear-cut, either. There are some better 
things and some worse things. Being worse at something doesn't make it 
worse at everything.


Certainly, not everyone in a given country is the same. You should know 
-- can you positively say there's no discrimination in your own country, 
just because you yourself don't discriminate in your own country? I wish 
you and I both could...



OSM or the SotM isn't your own toy, that you can lend for others to play 
with. It's more of a leisure=playground; access=yes. Let everyone have 
their turn. If you don't want to go down the slide today (no matter the 
reason), go to the swing. The slide will be there for you another day.



PS: please avoid replying with examples of extremism. From my pov it's 
not relevant to the SotM discussion.


Best regards,
o_andras



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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[Amanda McCann]

On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 11:38 +02:00, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> I don't think it is reasonable to expect the code of conduct to hold 
> against forceful outside influence - be that a group of armed thugs 
> crashing your conference, or a group of policemen come to make trouble, 
> or the businessperson making a sexist remark at the hotel breakfast buffet.

Yes, but no-one's saying it does.

A CoC says show the Powers That Be will act. “If you do X, we will do Y”. (e.g. 
X = “sexually assault someone“, Y = “use our powers as event organisers to 
legally require you to leave”). But the law might not allow you to do Y, 
because you;'re “promoting a crime”.

-- 
Amanda

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 17.08.23 09:59, Paul Norman wrote:
Government travel advisories state LGTBQ people are routinely harassed 
by the police. If this happens at the conference, how would you enforce 
the Code of Conduct which prohibits LGTBQ harassment?


I don't think it is reasonable to expect the code of conduct to hold 
against forceful outside influence - be that a group of armed thugs 
crashing your conference, or a group of policemen come to make trouble, 
or the businessperson making a sexist remark at the hotel breakfast buffet.


The code of conduct is meant to codify how we as a community want to 
treat each other. It doesn't magically wrap people into a bubble in 
which nothing bad can ever happen - not in Nairobi, not in Brussels, not 
in New York. No code of conduct does that, nowhere.


Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[Paul Norman]

On 2023-08-14 10:56 a.m., Federica Gaspari wrote:


Following the good feedback for State of the Map 2022 Firenze, the 
upcoming State of the Map 2024 will once again be held in a hybrid 
format. Building on the valuable lessons and experiences from the 
previous events, the SotM Organising Committee is committed to making 
this edition even more accessible to everyone who wishes to partake in 
this grand celebration of open mapping, sharing passionate voices with 
the entire community.




A lot of work has been done at mapping for minorities, including 
attributes that are relevant for LGBTQ+ people. Would a mapper be able 
to present their work at the conference? Would they able to participate 
remotely and have their talk seen in-person at the conference?


Government travel advisories state LGTBQ people are routinely harassed 
by the police. If this happens at the conference, how would you enforce 
the Code of Conduct which prohibits LGTBQ harassment?
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[John Whelan]

Whoever said life was easy.  My understanding is Kenya requires visas 
for many African countries so perhaps ease of obtaining visas etc should 
go on the list.


I sympathise with the idea of holding one in Africa or elsewhere I just 
naturally look for any problems that might arise.


Running a successful conference takes expertise, and attention to 
details, experience helps so perhaps some central organisation might 
help or give guidance.


HOT held a conference in Ottawa a year or two ago.  It was held jointly 
with Statistics Canada, but I seem to recall it was held in term time. 
There was an open data conference held here some years ago that had a 
lot of OpenStreetMap clients and mappers present, including HOT I think 
that one was run by External Affairs.  A number of attendees stayed at 
Ottawa University.


I think we need to focus on what we'd like to see.  For example Ottawa 
OpenStreetMap group has probably done the most comprehensive imports of 
Open Data into OSM of any city.  Is there a tale to tell to other cities 
on how to make their data available and what are the advantages? Yes I 
understand many mappers feel that real mapping is done with physical 
mappers but sometimes getting a complete set of bus stops with the code 
to call for bus times has value.


Has anyone done any financial analysis of Open Data and can we improve 
the map in Africa by using it and thus outcomes.


Ireland might work well, Dublin has good air connections.

Is there a danger that SotM US or SotM EU might become larger than SotM 
so it becomes less relevant?


I might suggest that alternate years somewhere more exotic is chosen 
than the EU.


Cheerio John

Frederik Ramm wrote on 8/16/2023 3:43 PM:

Hi,

On 8/16/23 20:01, John Whelan wrote:
If it was in the EU or the USA a higher proportion of members would 
not need a passport or visa.


... but almost all visitors from Africa would, and more importantly, 
many would have a very hard time obtaining it. Whereas the average 
"westerner" wanting to go to Nairobi simply fills out an online form 
and gets their visa within a couple of days.


For future SotMs I might suggest starting with accommodation, many 
universities have halls of residence available during the summer months.


These are good ideas but remember that SotM is not centrally 
organised. The SotM team puts out a call for location, and local 
groups can then apply. An application from a local group who have 
thought about these things, and who say "we've talked to our local 
university and there's affordable accommodation there" will certainly 
be looked upon favourably, but that's about all - the OSMF SotM team 
will not scout the world for locations with affordable accommodation, 
simple visa rules and cheap travel, all they can do is evaluate the 
bids that have been submitted.


Ottawa for example has halls with double beds and ensuites plus there 
are lecture halls etc available.  Meal plans can be purchased which 
means that you're eating in the cafeterias true but many 
conversations at SotM will take place outside the conference rooms 
and over a meal is a useful place to talk.


I would love to go to a SotM in Canada, however there has only ever 
been one bid from a Canadian team and that was withdrawn over the 
announcement of SotM US being at the UN in New York that year! If you 
can get a few Canadians to submit a bid for a SotM in one of the 
coming years, I'm sure that would be very attractive.


The EU might be easier than the UK since britexit the UK is no longer 
a free travel zone for EU citizens and the EU has trains which means 
a lower average carbon footprint per attendee.


The OSMF has been criticized for having run the last three in-person 
SotM conferences in Europe (two in Italy, one in Germany) so you can't 
blame them for looking elsewhere! Which doesn't rule out future 
European SotMs - after all, that's the continent where OSM was 
invented - but it's certainly good to go elsewhere once in a while, 
even if that is outside of the comfort zone for the average European 
or American traveller.


Bye
Frederik



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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 8/16/23 20:01, John Whelan wrote:
If it was in the EU or the USA a 
higher proportion of members would not need a passport or visa.


... but almost all visitors from Africa would, and more importantly, 
many would have a very hard time obtaining it. Whereas the average 
"westerner" wanting to go to Nairobi simply fills out an online form and 
gets their visa within a couple of days.


For future SotMs I might suggest starting with accommodation, many 
universities have halls of residence available during the summer 
months.


These are good ideas but remember that SotM is not centrally organised. 
The SotM team puts out a call for location, and local groups can then 
apply. An application from a local group who have thought about these 
things, and who say "we've talked to our local university and there's 
affordable accommodation there" will certainly be looked upon 
favourably, but that's about all - the OSMF SotM team will not scout the 
world for locations with affordable accommodation, simple visa rules and 
cheap travel, all they can do is evaluate the bids that have been 
submitted.


Ottawa for example has halls with double beds and ensuites 
plus there are lecture halls etc available.  Meal plans can be purchased 
which means that you're eating in the cafeterias true but many 
conversations at SotM will take place outside the conference rooms and 
over a meal is a useful place to talk.


I would love to go to a SotM in Canada, however there has only ever been 
one bid from a Canadian team and that was withdrawn over the 
announcement of SotM US being at the UN in New York that year! If you 
can get a few Canadians to submit a bid for a SotM in one of the coming 
years, I'm sure that would be very attractive.


The EU might be easier than the UK since britexit the UK is no longer a 
free travel zone for EU citizens and the EU has trains which means a 
lower average carbon footprint per attendee.


The OSMF has been criticized for having run the last three in-person 
SotM conferences in Europe (two in Italy, one in Germany) so you can't 
blame them for looking elsewhere! Which doesn't rule out future European 
SotMs - after all, that's the continent where OSM was invented - but 
it's certainly good to go elsewhere once in a while, even if that is 
outside of the comfort zone for the average European or American traveller.


Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[John Whelan]

Andrew Hain: "I would like to congratulate the organising team in 
Nairobi and the SotM Working Group for doing this. Giving the worldwide 
community a broader understanding of the challenges of mapping Africa 
and using maps there is positive step for OSM’s inclusiveness as a truly 
worldwide map. "


I think we need to balance things out. There is a need to expose Africa 
to different ideas but being pragmatic this won't be done in a day.


I think we also ought to recognise that travel within Africa is not 
easy.  Many African countries do not have direct flights to Nairobi and 
even when they do exist they aren't cheap.


"inclusiveness" I think we need to recognise there are many barriers 
here.  First the cost of flights from say Cairo to Nairobi is close to 
the cost of London to New York.  Europe to Nairobi in general is more 
expensive than a transatlantic flight.  Thinking of where our members 
live do they need a passport or visa?  If it was in the EU or the USA a 
higher proportion of members would not need a passport or visa.  I seem 
to recall yellow fever vaccine certificate is required and Ebola 
outbreaks have occurred in neighbouring countries.


The Canadian government's advice for travel to Kenya is in the link.

Travel advice and advisories for Kenya 



Basically there is a credible risk of terrorist attacks in Nairobi, and 
there have been some there already according to the web site.  The crime 
rate is high so basically you're living in a hotel and the conference 
area.  Sightseeing is not recommended.


In summation I think what we'll see is a SotM dominated by locals from 
Kenya, attendees from commercial companies or others on expenses, and a 
few more wealthy mappers than we would in other locations.  Whether this 
is good or bad I make no comment.


I note that the recent World/Scout/Jamboree got hit by high 
temperatures, with global warming should the average expected 
temperature be taken into account?


For future SotMs I might suggest starting with accommodation, many 
universities have halls of residence available during the summer 
months.   Ottawa for example has halls with double beds and ensuites 
plus there are lecture halls etc available.  Meal plans can be purchased 
which means that you're eating in the cafeterias true but many 
conversations at SotM will take place outside the conference rooms and 
over a meal is a useful place to talk.


I'd suggest running it over a weekend with the weekend free.  That way 
those on expenses can grab a bit of sightseeing and the airfares 
typically are cheaper with a Saturday night stay.  Plus you can run a 
few more informal activities over the weekend.


The EU might be easier than the UK since britexit the UK is no longer a 
free travel zone for EU citizens and the EU has trains which means a 
lower average carbon footprint per attendee.


Note to Amanda realistically with the high crime rate and 
"Women’s safety: Women travelling alone may be subject to some forms of 
harassment and verbal abuse. Attacks involving sexual assault have 
occurred."  The LBGTQ side of things might be the least of your problems.


Have fun but do your risk analysis before attending and know what to expect.

Cheerio John



Amanda McCann wrote on 8/16/2023 12:00 PM:

I'm an out, queer trans woman. I presume this event won't be safe for people 
like me?

It's illegal to be gay in Nairobi, and parliamentarians are proposing even 
stricter, oppressive laws¹. Trans people are often lumped into the same group. 
The last SotM CoC² said: “[we are] dedicated to providing a harassment-free 
conference experience for everyone, regardless of … gender identity and 
expression, sexual orientation, …. We do not tolerate harassment of conference 
participants in any form”. This CoC wouldn't be possible in 2024, right?

I presume the advice from the SotM WG is that this event cannot for LGBTQ 
people, right?

Oh, doesn't this go against the OSMF/SotMWG's safety policy?³

¹ 
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/kenya-could-follow-uganda-east-african-nations-wage-war-lgbt-rights-2023-06-22/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-66079603
² https://2022.stateofthemap.org/codeofconduct/
³ 
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/StateoftheMap_Organizing_Committee/StateoftheMap_safety_policy

On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 19:56 +02:00, Federica Gaspari  
wrote:

Dear all,

Get ready to meet and connect with old and new mappy friends from the
global OpenStreetMap community again!

The State of the Map Organising Committee is thrilled to officially
announce that the global conference of the OpenStreetMap community,
State of the Map (SotM), will be making its way to Nairobi, Kenya from
September 6th-8th 2024! This landmark event will bring together
passionate mappers, data enthusiasts, technologists, and community
members from all corners of the globe to celebrate the spirit of
collaboration and open mapping.

Following the good feedback 

Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[Andrew Hain]

I would like to congratulate the organising team in Nairobi and the SotM 
Working Group for doing this. Giving the worldwide community a broader 
understanding of the challenges of mapping Africa and using maps there is 
positive step for OSM’s inclusiveness as a truly worldwide map.

--
Andrew


From: Federica Gaspari 
Sent: 14 August 2023 18:56
To: talk@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and 
online on 6-8 September 2024!


Dear all,



Get ready to meet and connect with old and new mappy friends from the global 
OpenStreetMap community again!



The State of the Map Organising Committee is thrilled to officially announce 
that the global conference of the OpenStreetMap community, State of the Map 
(SotM), will be making its way to Nairobi, Kenya from September 6th-8th 2024! 
This landmark event will bring together passionate mappers, data enthusiasts, 
technologists, and community members from all corners of the globe to celebrate 
the spirit of collaboration and open mapping.



Following the good feedback for State of the Map 2022 Firenze, the upcoming 
State of the Map 2024 will once again be held in a hybrid format. Building on 
the valuable lessons and experiences from the previous events, the SotM 
Organising Committee is committed to making this edition even more accessible 
to everyone who wishes to partake in this grand celebration of open mapping, 
sharing passionate voices with the entire community.



Learn more about the SotM 2024 announcement on the OpenStreetMap blog: 
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2023/08/14/announcing-state-of-the-map-2024-september-6-to-8-2024-join-us-in-nairobi-and-online/



More details about the organization will be soon communicated.



Federica Gaspari on behalf of the SotM Organising Committee


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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[Clay Smalley]

As a gay man, I was considering attending SOTM 2024, but I'm having
reservations after reading what Aimee and Amanda have brought up.

The bid for SOTM 2024 put forward by OSM Kenya [1] has the following
paragraph:

> Nairobi has a more progressive outlook compared to other regions in the
> country, and there is a growing LGBTQ+ community and support organisations
> within the city. Nairobi is a multicultural city, with people from all over
> the world calling it home. Being a major economic and commercial center in
> Kenya, the city attracts people from all over the world. This gives the
> city its diversity and unique features making it one of the best and most
> tourist connection hubs in Africa. Nairobi also serves as a host to several
> international and regional conferences, conventions and seminars and boasts
> of a zero-tolerance policy on discrimination, harassment or any form of
> mistreatment. This includes conferences like the Internet Governance Forum
> in 2023, the United Nations Environment Assembly in 2022 and the
> International Conference on Population and Development in 2019.
>
> In relation to the local LGBTQ+ laws, in 2023, the Supreme Court of Kenya
> ruled that the National Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission (NGLHRC)
> must be allowed to officially register as a non-governmental organization
> allowing for the community to associate freely. These rulings are a major
> victory for the LGBTQ+ community in Kenya and are also a significant step
> forward for human rights in Kenya.
>
I appreciate the time and effort the OSM Kenya team put into their bid, and
I'm sure their heart is in the right place regarding LGBT rights. However,
I would like more context from the team here, considering the presence of
anti-LGBT legislation in the country.

Does Equaldex's assessment [2] of LGBT legal rights and public opinion in
Kenya match your understanding of the country?

Are anti-LGBT laws enforced in Kenya? If so, how? Are they enforced
uniformly across the country, in both rural and urban areas?

Is public opinion different towards visiting LGBT foreigners vs. LGBT
locals? If so, how?

If I visit Nairobi, how likely is it that I will experience harassment or
discrimination, whether by ordinary citizens or legal authorities?

[1]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2024/Call_for_venues/Nairobi#Is_it_a_LGBT_friendly_space
?
[2] https://www.equaldex.com/region/kenya


On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 2:02 PM Federica Gaspari 
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
>
>
> Get ready to meet and connect with old and new mappy friends from the
> global OpenStreetMap community again!
>
>
>
> The State of the Map Organising Committee is thrilled to officially
> announce that the global conference of the OpenStreetMap community, State
> of the Map (SotM), will be making its way to Nairobi, Kenya from September
> 6th-8th 2024! This landmark event will bring together passionate mappers,
> data enthusiasts, technologists, and community members from all corners of
> the globe to celebrate the spirit of collaboration and open mapping.
>
>
>
> Following the good feedback for State of the Map 2022 Firenze, the
> upcoming State of the Map 2024 will once again be held in a hybrid format.
> Building on the valuable lessons and experiences from the previous events,
> the SotM Organising Committee is committed to making this edition even more
> accessible to everyone who wishes to partake in this grand celebration of
> open mapping, sharing passionate voices with the entire community.
>
>
>
> Learn more about the SotM 2024 announcement on the OpenStreetMap blog: 
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2023/08/14/announcing-state-of-the-map-2024-september-6-to-8-2024-join-us-in-nairobi-and-online/
>
>
>
> More details about the organization will be soon communicated.
>
>
>
> Federica Gaspari on behalf of the SotM Organising Committee
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[Amanda McCann]

I'm an out, queer trans woman. I presume this event won't be safe for people 
like me?

It's illegal to be gay in Nairobi, and parliamentarians are proposing even 
stricter, oppressive laws¹. Trans people are often lumped into the same group. 
The last SotM CoC² said: “[we are] dedicated to providing a harassment-free 
conference experience for everyone, regardless of … gender identity and 
expression, sexual orientation, …. We do not tolerate harassment of conference 
participants in any form”. This CoC wouldn't be possible in 2024, right?

I presume the advice from the SotM WG is that this event cannot for LGBTQ 
people, right?

Oh, doesn't this go against the OSMF/SotMWG's safety policy?³

¹ 
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/kenya-could-follow-uganda-east-african-nations-wage-war-lgbt-rights-2023-06-22/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-66079603 
² https://2022.stateofthemap.org/codeofconduct/
³ 
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/StateoftheMap_Organizing_Committee/StateoftheMap_safety_policy

On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 19:56 +02:00, Federica Gaspari  
wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> Get ready to meet and connect with old and new mappy friends from the 
> global OpenStreetMap community again!
> 
> The State of the Map Organising Committee is thrilled to officially 
> announce that the global conference of the OpenStreetMap community, 
> State of the Map (SotM), will be making its way to Nairobi, Kenya from 
> September 6th-8th 2024! This landmark event will bring together 
> passionate mappers, data enthusiasts, technologists, and community 
> members from all corners of the globe to celebrate the spirit of 
> collaboration and open mapping.
> 
> Following the good feedback for State of the Map 2022 Firenze, the 
> upcoming State of the Map 2024 will once again be held in a hybrid 
> format. Building on the valuable lessons and experiences from the 
> previous events, the SotM Organising Committee is committed to making 
> this edition even more accessible to everyone who wishes to partake in 
> this grand celebration of open mapping, sharing passionate voices with 
> the entire community.
>  Learn more about the SotM 2024 announcement on the OpenStreetMap blog: 
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2023/08/14/announcing-state-of-the-map-2024-september-6-to-8-2024-join-us-in-nairobi-and-online/
>  
>  More details about the organization will be soon communicated.  
> Federica Gaspari on behalf of the SotM Organising Committee 
> 
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

-- 
Amanda

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[Christine Karch]

Hi Aimee,

thank you for bringing up this to public attention.

We are aware about this conflict and awful situation for queer community 
during next years SotM. Nevertheless we decided to go to Africa next 
year. A long time we planned this. It was interrupted by Corona 
pandemia. We will do everything that _everyone_ who is not able to 
travel (and there are a lot beside the queer community) are able to 
participate nevertheless in the hybrid mode of the conference.


I'm very sorry about this and also aware that "kind words" don't help or 
change the bad situation of the queer community ..


Christine

Am 16.08.23 um 00:23 schrieb Aimee Knight:

Dear Federica et al,

While I understand the challenges that were faced in selecting a venue 
for the 2023 conference and the subsequent need to reschedule, I am 
troubled by the choice of host country for the 2024 event. I firmly 
believe in the importance of ensuring that the SotM conference is 
accessible and welcoming to all members of our global community. The 
decision to host the conference in a country that criminalizes LGBTQ+ 
individuals, such as Kenya, raises significant ethical concerns.


It is my understanding that the OpenStreetMap Foundation (OSMF) has 
established policies that prioritize inclusivity and respect for human 
rights. The recent crackdown on LGBTQ+ rights in Kenya and other 
countries in the region is well-documented [1][2][3], and this goes 
against the principles of inclusivity that the OSMF stands for.


By choosing a host country where a significant portion of our community 
would face the risk of imprisonment and discrimination due to their 
sexual orientation or gender identity, we risk alienating and excluding 
valued contributors who would otherwise seek to attend the SotM 
conference. It is essential to remember that the strength of 
OpenStreetMap lies in its diverse and global community, and we should 
strive to create an environment that is safe and respectful for all.


I kindly request that the SotM Organising Committee provide a clear and 
transparent explanation for the decision to host the conference in 
Kenya. It is essential for the community to understand the rationale 
behind this decision, especially in light of the potential impact on 
LGBTQ+ contributors and other participants who may not feel comfortable 
or safe attending the conference in such a location.


Furthermore, I urge the committee to reconsider the choice of host 
country for the 2024 SotM conference. While I understand that logistical 
and financial factors must be taken into account, I believe it is 
possible to find alternative venues that align with the OSMF's 
commitment to inclusivity and human rights.


I share the concerns of many in the OpenStreetMap community regarding 
this issue, and I sincerely hope that the SotM Organising Committee will 
listen to these concerns and take them into serious consideration.


Thank you for your time and attention to this matter. I look forward to 
a productive and open dialogue about the future of the State of the Map 
conference.


Sincerely,

Aimee Knight
OSM: speedbirdsunflower

[1] "Why are Kenya and Uganda cracking down on LGBTQ+ rights?" - Al 
Jazeera, March 23, 2023
[2] "Kenya, Tanzania, South Sudan pass anti-homosexuality laws" - 
PinkNews, June 23, 2023
[3] Equaldex: LGBTQ+ rights in Kenya 
(https://www.equaldex.com/region/kenya 
)



*Aimee - speedbirdsunflower*
OSM Profile  and 
Wiki Profile 



On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 at 19:01, Federica Gaspari > wrote:


Dear all,

__ __

Get ready to meet and connect with old and new mappy friends from
the global OpenStreetMap community again!

__ __

The State of the Map Organising Committee is thrilled to officially
announce that the global conference of the OpenStreetMap community,
State of the Map (SotM), will be making its way to Nairobi, Kenya
from September 6th-8th 2024! This landmark event will bring together
passionate mappers, data enthusiasts, technologists, and community
members from all corners of the globe to celebrate the spirit of
collaboration and open mapping.

__ __

Following the good feedback for State of the Map 2022 Firenze, the
upcoming State of the Map 2024 will once again be held in a hybrid
format. Building on the valuable lessons and experiences from the
previous events, the SotM Organising Committee is committed to
making this edition even more accessible to everyone who wishes to
partake in this grand celebration of open mapping, sharing
passionate voices with the entire community.

__ __

Learn more about the SotM 2024 announcement on the OpenStreetMap
blog:

Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[Aimee Knight]

Dear Federica et al,

While I understand the challenges that were faced in selecting a venue for
the 2023 conference and the subsequent need to reschedule, I am troubled by
the choice of host country for the 2024 event. I firmly believe in the
importance of ensuring that the SotM conference is accessible and welcoming
to all members of our global community. The decision to host the conference
in a country that criminalizes LGBTQ+ individuals, such as Kenya, raises
significant ethical concerns.

It is my understanding that the OpenStreetMap Foundation (OSMF) has
established policies that prioritize inclusivity and respect for human
rights. The recent crackdown on LGBTQ+ rights in Kenya and other countries
in the region is well-documented [1][2][3], and this goes against the
principles of inclusivity that the OSMF stands for.

By choosing a host country where a significant portion of our community
would face the risk of imprisonment and discrimination due to their sexual
orientation or gender identity, we risk alienating and excluding valued
contributors who would otherwise seek to attend the SotM conference. It is
essential to remember that the strength of OpenStreetMap lies in its
diverse and global community, and we should strive to create an environment
that is safe and respectful for all.

I kindly request that the SotM Organising Committee provide a clear and
transparent explanation for the decision to host the conference in Kenya.
It is essential for the community to understand the rationale behind this
decision, especially in light of the potential impact on LGBTQ+
contributors and other participants who may not feel comfortable or safe
attending the conference in such a location.

Furthermore, I urge the committee to reconsider the choice of host country
for the 2024 SotM conference. While I understand that logistical and
financial factors must be taken into account, I believe it is possible to
find alternative venues that align with the OSMF's commitment to
inclusivity and human rights.

I share the concerns of many in the OpenStreetMap community regarding this
issue, and I sincerely hope that the SotM Organising Committee will listen
to these concerns and take them into serious consideration.

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter. I look forward to a
productive and open dialogue about the future of the State of the Map
conference.

Sincerely,

Aimee Knight
OSM: speedbirdsunflower

[1] "Why are Kenya and Uganda cracking down on LGBTQ+ rights?" - Al
Jazeera, March 23, 2023
[2] "Kenya, Tanzania, South Sudan pass anti-homosexuality laws" - PinkNews,
June 23, 2023
[3] Equaldex: LGBTQ+ rights in Kenya (https://www.equaldex.com/region/kenya)


*Aimee - speedbirdsunflower*
OSM Profile  and Wiki
Profile 


On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 at 19:01, Federica Gaspari 
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
>
>
> Get ready to meet and connect with old and new mappy friends from the
> global OpenStreetMap community again!
>
>
>
> The State of the Map Organising Committee is thrilled to officially
> announce that the global conference of the OpenStreetMap community, State
> of the Map (SotM), will be making its way to Nairobi, Kenya from September
> 6th-8th 2024! This landmark event will bring together passionate mappers,
> data enthusiasts, technologists, and community members from all corners of
> the globe to celebrate the spirit of collaboration and open mapping.
>
>
>
> Following the good feedback for State of the Map 2022 Firenze, the
> upcoming State of the Map 2024 will once again be held in a hybrid format.
> Building on the valuable lessons and experiences from the previous events,
> the SotM Organising Committee is committed to making this edition even more
> accessible to everyone who wishes to partake in this grand celebration of
> open mapping, sharing passionate voices with the entire community.
>
>
>
> Learn more about the SotM 2024 announcement on the OpenStreetMap blog: 
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2023/08/14/announcing-state-of-the-map-2024-september-6-to-8-2024-join-us-in-nairobi-and-online/
>
>
>
> More details about the organization will be soon communicated.
>
>
>
> Federica Gaspari on behalf of the SotM Organising Committee
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
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[OSM-talk] Announcing State of the Map 2024: Join us in Nairobi and online on 6-8 September 2024!

[Federica Gaspari]

Dear all,

Get ready to meet and connect with old and new mappy friends from the global 
OpenStreetMap community again!

The State of the Map Organising Committee is thrilled to officially announce 
that the global conference of the OpenStreetMap community, State of the Map 
(SotM), will be making its way to Nairobi, Kenya from September 6th-8th 2024! 
This landmark event will bring together passionate mappers, data enthusiasts, 
technologists, and community members from all corners of the globe to celebrate 
the spirit of collaboration and open mapping.

Following the good feedback for State of the Map 2022 Firenze, the upcoming 
State of the Map 2024 will once again be held in a hybrid format. Building on 
the valuable lessons and experiences from the previous events, the SotM 
Organising Committee is committed to making this edition even more accessible 
to everyone who wishes to partake in this grand celebration of open mapping, 
sharing passionate voices with the entire community.



Learn more about the SotM 2024 announcement on the OpenStreetMap blog: 
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2023/08/14/announcing-state-of-the-map-2024-september-6-to-8-2024-join-us-in-nairobi-and-online/



More details about the organization will be soon communicated.



Federica Gaspari on behalf of the SotM Organising Committee

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