[Texascavers] Government Canyon karst survey

2012-02-14 Thread Marvin and Lisa
On March 3rd and 4th we will be looking for caves in the hills and canyons of Government Canyon. If the trails are dry we will be surveying and exploring caves. We'll probably also be digging in sinks. These are all things that cavers like to do so come on out and help. We meet at 9:00 in the par

[Texascavers] Government Canyon karst survey

2012-02-14 Thread Marvin and Lisa
On March 3rd and 4th we will be looking for caves in the hills and canyons of Government Canyon. If the trails are dry we will be surveying and exploring caves. We'll probably also be digging in sinks. These are all things that cavers like to do so come on out and help. We meet at 9:00 in the par

[Texascavers] Government Canyon karst survey

2012-02-14 Thread Marvin and Lisa
On March 3rd and 4th we will be looking for caves in the hills and canyons of Government Canyon. If the trails are dry we will be surveying and exploring caves. We'll probably also be digging in sinks. These are all things that cavers like to do so come on out and help. We meet at 9:00 in the par

[SWR] Fwd: Call for Fine Arts Salon (formal)

2012-02-14 Thread Linda Starr
-- Forwarded message -- From: Carolina Shrewsbury Date: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 5:12 PM Subject: Call for Fine Arts Salon (formal) To: lstarr...@gmail.com, jerrywall...@tvn.net, Kriste Lindberg < kriste.lindb...@gmail.com> I have sent this out already but I got a few bounces because

[SWR] Fwd: Call for Fine Arts Salon (formal)

2012-02-14 Thread Linda Starr
-- Forwarded message -- From: Carolina Shrewsbury List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 5:12 PM Subject: Call for Fine Arts Salon (formal) To: lstarr...@gmail.com, jerrywall...@tvn.net, Kriste Lindberg < kriste.lindb...@gmail.com> I have sent this out

[SWR] Fwd: Call for Fine Arts Salon (formal)

2012-02-14 Thread Linda Starr
-- Forwarded message -- From: Carolina Shrewsbury List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 5:12 PM Subject: Call for Fine Arts Salon (formal) To: lstarr...@gmail.com, jerrywall...@tvn.net, Kriste Lindberg < kriste.lindb...@gmail.com> I have sent this out

Re: [Texascavers] new sinkhole in SW Austin being studied

2012-02-14 Thread Tim Stich
That must feed into the same system that Airman's is a part of. Remember the year Airman's had water flowing out of the wall to the left of the entrance? I and some others went in there with masks, snorkels, and dive lights to see where the water was coming from. Must be a lot more cave in them tha

Re: [Texascavers] new sinkhole in SW Austin being studied

2012-02-14 Thread Tim Stich
That must feed into the same system that Airman's is a part of. Remember the year Airman's had water flowing out of the wall to the left of the entrance? I and some others went in there with masks, snorkels, and dive lights to see where the water was coming from. Must be a lot more cave in them tha

Re: [Texascavers] new sinkhole in SW Austin being studied

2012-02-14 Thread Tim Stich
That must feed into the same system that Airman's is a part of. Remember the year Airman's had water flowing out of the wall to the left of the entrance? I and some others went in there with masks, snorkels, and dive lights to see where the water was coming from. Must be a lot more cave in them tha

Re: [Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

2012-02-14 Thread William H. Russell
The WIre Wiggle was named after the wire used to set off explosive charges used to enlarge the passage in the 70s. We had almost given up getting through (we were digging our way in), but we realized we could see through to a bigger space. We placed a charge (probably kinapak), and that broke

Re: [Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

2012-02-14 Thread William H. Russell
The WIre Wiggle was named after the wire used to set off explosive charges used to enlarge the passage in the 70s. We had almost given up getting through (we were digging our way in), but we realized we could see through to a bigger space. We placed a charge (probably kinapak), and that broke

Re: [Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

2012-02-14 Thread William H. Russell
The WIre Wiggle was named after the wire used to set off explosive charges used to enlarge the passage in the 70s. We had almost given up getting through (we were digging our way in), but we realized we could see through to a bigger space. We placed a charge (probably kinapak), and that broke

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread dirtdoc
Woops! Sorry.  So much for a quick read.  My comment still stands, however.  Dwight - Original Message - From: "George Veni" To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:36:10 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation Dwight,   Actua

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread dirtdoc
Woops! Sorry.  So much for a quick read.  My comment still stands, however.  Dwight - Original Message - From: "George Veni" To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:36:10 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation Dwight,   Actua

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread dirtdoc
Woops! Sorry.  So much for a quick read.  My comment still stands, however.  Dwight - Original Message - From: "George Veni" To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:36:10 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation Dwight,   Actua

texascavers Digest 15 Feb 2012 00:36:14 -0000 Issue 1498

2012-02-14 Thread texascavers-digest-help
texascavers Digest 15 Feb 2012 00:36:14 - Issue 1498 Topics (messages 19559 through 19572): Arsenic Concentrations High in Wind Cave Water Bodies : 19559 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com Re: Honey Creek sand observation 19560 by: Andy Gluesenkamp 19561 by: Benjamin Schwartz

texascavers Digest 15 Feb 2012 00:36:14 -0000 Issue 1498

2012-02-14 Thread texascavers-digest-help
texascavers Digest 15 Feb 2012 00:36:14 - Issue 1498 Topics (messages 19559 through 19572): Arsenic Concentrations High in Wind Cave Water Bodies : 19559 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com Re: Honey Creek sand observation 19560 by: Andy Gluesenkamp 19561 by: Benjamin Schwartz

texascavers Digest 15 Feb 2012 00:36:14 -0000 Issue 1498

2012-02-14 Thread texascavers-digest-help
texascavers Digest 15 Feb 2012 00:36:14 - Issue 1498 Topics (messages 19559 through 19572): Arsenic Concentrations High in Wind Cave Water Bodies : 19559 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com Re: Honey Creek sand observation 19560 by: Andy Gluesenkamp 19561 by: Benjamin Schwartz

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
Dwight, Actually it was someone else who was downplaying the role of soil and plants on CO2. I’m a fan! George *** George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
Dwight, Actually it was someone else who was downplaying the role of soil and plants on CO2. I’m a fan! George *** George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
Dwight, Actually it was someone else who was downplaying the role of soil and plants on CO2. I’m a fan! George *** George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread dirtdoc
I have been following the calcite "sand" posts with interest.   George, I suspect the soils may be more important than you acknowledge.   I think it depends more on residence time and partial pressure (and, of course, plant activity) than "thickness" of the soils as such.   In a related

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread dirtdoc
I have been following the calcite "sand" posts with interest.   George, I suspect the soils may be more important than you acknowledge.   I think it depends more on residence time and partial pressure (and, of course, plant activity) than "thickness" of the soils as such.   In a related

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread dirtdoc
I have been following the calcite "sand" posts with interest.   George, I suspect the soils may be more important than you acknowledge.   I think it depends more on residence time and partial pressure (and, of course, plant activity) than "thickness" of the soils as such.   In a related

[Texascavers] new sinkhole in SW Austin being studied

2012-02-14 Thread Logan McNatt
Aimee Beveridge sent this to the UT Grotto Facebook page, so I'm passing it on to the texascavers list. Logan http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/green/entries/2012/02/14/southwest_austin_cave_collapse.html

[Texascavers] new sinkhole in SW Austin being studied

2012-02-14 Thread Logan McNatt
Aimee Beveridge sent this to the UT Grotto Facebook page, so I'm passing it on to the texascavers list. Logan http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/green/entries/2012/02/14/southwest_austin_cave_collapse.html

[Texascavers] new sinkhole in SW Austin being studied

2012-02-14 Thread Logan McNatt
Aimee Beveridge sent this to the UT Grotto Facebook page, so I'm passing it on to the texascavers list. Logan http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/green/entries/2012/02/14/southwest_austin_cave_collapse.html

Re: [Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

2012-02-14 Thread Mark Minton
I enlarged the Wire Wiggle slightly when I went through it back in the 80's(?). I couldn't get my long legs around the corner, so I used my Swiss Army knife to carve away a bit of rock so that my knees could make the turn. It was quite soft, likely due to some type of surface corrosio

Re: [Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

2012-02-14 Thread Mark Minton
I enlarged the Wire Wiggle slightly when I went through it back in the 80's(?). I couldn't get my long legs around the corner, so I used my Swiss Army knife to carve away a bit of rock so that my knees could make the turn. It was quite soft, likely due to some type of surface corrosio

Re: [Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

2012-02-14 Thread Mark Minton
I enlarged the Wire Wiggle slightly when I went through it back in the 80's(?). I couldn't get my long legs around the corner, so I used my Swiss Army knife to carve away a bit of rock so that my knees could make the turn. It was quite soft, likely due to some type of surface corrosio

Re: [Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

2012-02-14 Thread Andy Edwards
I do wonder if it was enlarged...it never seemed much worse to me than the keyhole/birth canal. Does anyone have a section/vertical profile of it? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 120 degree bend... -Andy On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Preston Forsythe wrote: > ** > To the best of my k

Re: [Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

2012-02-14 Thread Andy Edwards
I do wonder if it was enlarged...it never seemed much worse to me than the keyhole/birth canal. Does anyone have a section/vertical profile of it? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 120 degree bend... -Andy On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Preston Forsythe wrote: > ** > To the best of my k

Re: [Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

2012-02-14 Thread Andy Edwards
I do wonder if it was enlarged...it never seemed much worse to me than the keyhole/birth canal. Does anyone have a section/vertical profile of it? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 120 degree bend... -Andy On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Preston Forsythe wrote: > ** > To the best of my k

[Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

2012-02-14 Thread Preston Forsythe
To the best of my knowledge, Bill Russell pioneered that famous route at the back of Airman's Cave. I know my trip there was with Bill. That section of the cave has some amazing long thin selinite needles. But, the 120 degree tight bend in the Wire Wiggle is a killer as the knees will not easily

[Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

2012-02-14 Thread Preston Forsythe
To the best of my knowledge, Bill Russell pioneered that famous route at the back of Airman's Cave. I know my trip there was with Bill. That section of the cave has some amazing long thin selinite needles. But, the 120 degree tight bend in the Wire Wiggle is a killer as the knees will not easily

[Texascavers] Wire Wiggle Club

2012-02-14 Thread Preston Forsythe
To the best of my knowledge, Bill Russell pioneered that famous route at the back of Airman's Cave. I know my trip there was with Bill. That section of the cave has some amazing long thin selinite needles. But, the 120 degree tight bend in the Wire Wiggle is a killer as the knees will not easily

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Joe & Evelynn
I have a fresh Austin chalk cave rock ready to go in a vacuum chamber connected to a mass spec to measure the outgassing, which may give us some data soon. Joe Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2012, at 10:25 AM, "George Veni" wrote: > "As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Joe & Evelynn
I have a fresh Austin chalk cave rock ready to go in a vacuum chamber connected to a mass spec to measure the outgassing, which may give us some data soon. Joe Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2012, at 10:25 AM, "George Veni" wrote: > "As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Joe & Evelynn
I have a fresh Austin chalk cave rock ready to go in a vacuum chamber connected to a mass spec to measure the outgassing, which may give us some data soon. Joe Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2012, at 10:25 AM, "George Veni" wrote: > "As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
"As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open question. I'm not so sure about soils since there isn't much in central Texas. In small caves it could be organics. But in larger caves, I tend to favor out gassing from the limestone as it is dissolved by water - especially in caves that

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
"As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open question. I'm not so sure about soils since there isn't much in central Texas. In small caves it could be organics. But in larger caves, I tend to favor out gassing from the limestone as it is dissolved by water - especially in caves that

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
"As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open question. I'm not so sure about soils since there isn't much in central Texas. In small caves it could be organics. But in larger caves, I tend to favor out gassing from the limestone as it is dissolved by water - especially in caves that

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
Benjamin, Thanks for elaboration at CWAN. I agree with you. The same thing is happening at Honey Creek. As you understand, but for those readers on the list who are less familiar with carbonate geochemistry, it isn't really the airflow per se that is causing the calcite precipitation. The airflow

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
Benjamin, Thanks for elaboration at CWAN. I agree with you. The same thing is happening at Honey Creek. As you understand, but for those readers on the list who are less familiar with carbonate geochemistry, it isn't really the airflow per se that is causing the calcite precipitation. The airflow

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
Benjamin, Thanks for elaboration at CWAN. I agree with you. The same thing is happening at Honey Creek. As you understand, but for those readers on the list who are less familiar with carbonate geochemistry, it isn't really the airflow per se that is causing the calcite precipitation. The airflow

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Joe & Evelynn
Almost right. The CO2 levels and airflow velocities are essentially barometrically driven (not chimney effect which requires substantial elevation differences). In the summer barometric pressure changes are usually small so little air exchange occurs (and CO2 levels can build). In the winter, fr

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Joe & Evelynn
Almost right. The CO2 levels and airflow velocities are essentially barometrically driven (not chimney effect which requires substantial elevation differences). In the summer barometric pressure changes are usually small so little air exchange occurs (and CO2 levels can build). In the winter, fr

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Joe & Evelynn
Almost right. The CO2 levels and airflow velocities are essentially barometrically driven (not chimney effect which requires substantial elevation differences). In the summer barometric pressure changes are usually small so little air exchange occurs (and CO2 levels can build). In the winter, fr

[Texascavers] Paging Steve Webb!

2012-02-14 Thread Mallory Mayeux
Can someone send me Steve Webb from Dallas's email address? Mallory

[Texascavers] Paging Steve Webb!

2012-02-14 Thread Mallory Mayeux
Can someone send me Steve Webb from Dallas's email address? Mallory

[Texascavers] Paging Steve Webb!

2012-02-14 Thread Mallory Mayeux
Can someone send me Steve Webb from Dallas's email address? Mallory

[Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Benjamin Schwartz
While temperature, moisture content, and seasonality probably do have some effects on raft deposition in the stream passage, and certainly effect CO2 generation in the soil horizon, my observations in CWAN are that these effects on the surface are actually driving airflow changes in the cave, w

[Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Benjamin Schwartz
While temperature, moisture content, and seasonality probably do have some effects on raft deposition in the stream passage, and certainly effect CO2 generation in the soil horizon, my observations in CWAN are that these effects on the surface are actually driving airflow changes in the cave, w

[Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Benjamin Schwartz
While temperature, moisture content, and seasonality probably do have some effects on raft deposition in the stream passage, and certainly effect CO2 generation in the soil horizon, my observations in CWAN are that these effects on the surface are actually driving airflow changes in the cave, w

RE: [Texascavers] Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Andy Gluesenkamp
Ezell's Cave is another place where thick sheets of calcite ice seem to form very quickly.  A beautiful thing to dive under, like giant snowflakes mixed with saucer sized chunks of "ice"raining down from above. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512

RE: [Texascavers] Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Andy Gluesenkamp
Ezell's Cave is another place where thick sheets of calcite ice seem to form very quickly.  A beautiful thing to dive under, like giant snowflakes mixed with saucer sized chunks of "ice"raining down from above. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512

RE: [Texascavers] Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Andy Gluesenkamp
Ezell's Cave is another place where thick sheets of calcite ice seem to form very quickly.  A beautiful thing to dive under, like giant snowflakes mixed with saucer sized chunks of "ice"raining down from above. Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512