Dear Tipsters,
I reproduce (far) below the recent posting by Michael Donnelly and two last
week by Jon Mueller and Alan Esterson.
I think it is clear now that we have not found the term iceberg in Freud, but
I would like to draw attention again to the point made by Jon and Alan that
Freud did
The search for historical
"firsts" almost always ends up like this. The line between a "true"
original instance and a "near-miss" precursor becomes finer and finer
until it seems to vanish completely. Then one starts erecting fairly
aribtrary "signposts" in order to rule out the instances one
in the process of
doing the same thing for the iceberg idea.
-Mike D.
From: Christopher D. Green [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:29
AM
To: Teaching in the Psychological
Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: [tips] Re: Freud iceberg
quote: source
The search
On May 24, 2006, at 1:49 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I've requested a copy of the first edition of volume 2 of Elemente to see what old Fechner actually said on p, 521. It will be in German, of course, which I don't understand, but I think I will be able to recognize "eisberg" if it appears
In an earlier post, I noted my suspicion that our acceptance of Fechner
as the possible source of the iceberg analogy may be premature, given the
ambiguity in the Ernest Jones reference on which this conclusion is
based. I said that I was going to check the original (Book 2 of Elemente
der
On May 24, 2006, at 6:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Neverthless, I don't think I would consider the Herbart version as you'vedescribed it as a true iceberg analogy. Just because it involves icefloating isn't enough. It has to be clear that it is intended toillustrate that, like an iceberg, the
I spent a couple of pleasant hours on the PsychClassics website. Chris
has several articles which discuss consciousness and psychoanalytic
concepts but I was unable to find any use of the iceberg analogy.
But I did discover this interesting read:
Boring, Edwin G. (1951). The woman problem.
I've had another go at tracing the iceberg analogy in Freud's writings,
but with no success. Numerous websites quote Freud in the same words:
The mind is like an iceberg, it floats with one-seventh of its bulk above
water. But not one of them gives a reference, though a couple give
(different)
Check out a work by a British dude named Gilbert Ryle.I think the
book is titled the Concept of Mind.
Michael Sylvester,PhD
Daytona Beach,Florida
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] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:56 AM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: [tips] Re: Freud iceberg quote: source
Check out a work by a British dude named Gilbert Ryle.I think the
book is titled the Concept of Mind.
Michael Sylvester,PhD
Daytona Beach
: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:56 AM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: [tips] Re: Freud iceberg quote: source
Check out a work by a British dude named Gilbert Ryle.I think the
book is titled the Concept of Mind.
Michael Sylvester
Well, the good news here, then, is that most likely Freud was not a
plagiarist, stealing Fechner analogy :)
Annette
Quoting Allen Esterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I've had another go at tracing the iceberg analogy in Freud's writings,
but with no success. Numerous websites quote Freud in the
/cdevolder.htm
From: Annette Taylor, Ph. D. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Fri 5/19/2006 9:59 AM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: [tips] Re: Freud iceberg quote: source
Well, the good news here, then, is that most likely Freud
On 19 May 2006 at 7:39, Allen Esterson wrote:
I've had another go at tracing the iceberg analogy in Freud's writings,
but with no success. Numerous websites quote Freud in the same words:
The mind is like an iceberg, it floats with one-seventh of its bulk
above water. But not one of them
8:56 AM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: [tips] Re: Freud iceberg quote: source
Check out a work by a British dude named Gilbert Ryle.I think the
book is titled the Concept of Mind.
Michael Sylvester,PhD
Daytona Beach,Florida
---
To make changes to your subscription
Title: [tips] Re: Freud iceberg quote: source
In the entertainment world, I don't know if plagiarism even
exists as acategory (copyright would be more of a concern). As entertainment,
itcould bedefendedas an arcane pop culture allusion a la
Dennis Miller. (Anddon't tell me thatNBC News
Title: [tips] Re: Freud iceberg quote: source
The Kentucky Derby-West Wing plagiarism
segment can be seen at http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/most_recent/index.jhtml
by clicking to watch the segment titled Plagiarism. And it turns out that I think
the reporter would
Laundry?
Cook dinner?
Grade term papers?
Waste time tracking down the mystery source of the quote?
YES!
The search for the elusive iceberg quote is turning out to be quite
fun?MUCH more fun than grading term papers ;)
I did a simple google search and found it on several website,
including
.
-Original Message-
From: Annette Taylor, Ph. D. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 6:33 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: [tips] Re: Freud iceberg quote: source
Laundry?
Cook dinner?
Grade term papers?
Waste time tracking down the mystery source
Not Freud, but Nietzsche.
Michael T. Scoles, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Psychology Counseling
University of Central Arkansas
Conway, AR 72035
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/18/06 11:35 AM
I am looking for a source on the Freud iceberg quote. You know the one:
The mind is like an iceberg, it floats
Nietzsche, interesting. Any idea which of his works specifically? A brief
Google search didn't turn up much.
I've seen this analogy attributed to Fechner, who supposedly uses it in
his Elements of Psychophysics (1860). This makes sense to me (without
checking the source) because the Elements was
PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 2:04 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: [tips] Re: Freud iceberg quote: source
Nietzsche, interesting. Any idea which of his works
specifically? A brief Google search didn't turn up much.
I've seen this analogy attributed
On 18 May 2006 Mike Donnelly wrote:
I am looking for a source on the Freud iceberg quote. You know
the one: The mind is like an iceberg, it floats with one-seventh
of its bulk above water.
I haven't been able to trace Freud's use of the iceberg analogy, but, as
Mike indicates, it originated
I went to our library today and I browsed every volume of The Standard
Edition of the Complete Psychological Works of Sigmund Freud edited by
James Strachey (1966 version).
I searched every index, and the word iceberg never appears.
I also looked at every Fechner ref (there were lots), found no
Following up my citation of Jones citing Fechner for the iceberg analogy:
Schultz and Scultz's History of Psychology book cites Fechner for the
iceberg analogy:
http://www-psych.nmsu.edu/~jem/courses/history/ss13.html
Fechner is also cited at:
http://www.cwu.edu/~warren/DHC%20Freud%20Lecture.htm
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