Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread James Bowery
Well, thankfully, Smart Men are making decisions in Washington D.C. about things like where to put RD money. Just ask Jed. On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 1:52 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: I agree 100% with Alain. Very powerful anti-CF memes are circulating and cannot be erased by

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Mark Gibbs
there is no hope to convince people until there is a working prototype that we can put on the client table, and that clearly work, even roughly. I could have sworn that was what I've been writing on and off for the last year or so! No one but scientists care if CF exists but isn't useful in the

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Esa Ruoho
The first person who goes around during a Sandy#2 and charges people's laptops and mobile phones with a portable CF-device is going to do a lot more to convince people it's a everyday useful energy-source than any amount of comments on SciAm or elsewhere. People want a real-life useful thing.

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Alain Sepeda
It sadly oppose to the mythology of science, of prevalence of experimental facts compared to theories and to usefulness... in fact if something oppose todays theories/continuity and is not so important, it is denied. I can translate into: I won't lose my job, for something than cannot make me a

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: However as soon as we have a machine on the client table, and that the advantages for the client are clear, nothing can block people to use it... no lobbies, no regulation, no fear... I think that's incorrect. Here in the U.S. we have powerful

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Let me clarify. I wrote: After the accident, the Federal engineer who recommended this change was fired, and the top management who refused to implement the change were rewarded with thousands of dollars and promotions. That sort of thing happens more often than people realize. Before TMI,

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Alain Sepeda
I don't disagree with the power of lobbies. In fact the expert I talk to said thay they will try to oppose to the transition to maintain te problem they are the solution of. They will learn the new technology, while blocking it, until they can compete and establish a monopoly again. the way to

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread James Bowery
Public sector rent-seeking could be prevented in large measure by simply following the original intent of the US Constitution to a very limited Federal government role. Ultimately, you want to remove discretion from the appropriations process entirely with a CItizen's Dividend aka a

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread David Roberson
The uninformed public is getting the wrong message about LENR. Last evening I ran into a friend that I discussed the issue of cold fusion with last winter and he told me he had seen an article by Discover Magazine on Cold Fusion. His take was that PF was not replicated according to the

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread David Roberson
Hello Mark, I appreciate the fact that you are open to exploration of the subject. We who are closely following the progress tend to become emotionally attached to the issue and have a difficult time understanding those of the more skeptical nature such as yourself. Of course I very much

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread David Roberson
I would bet that a demonstration of a charger would not convince many about the reality of CF devices. So many would suggest ways that the effect could be faked or scammed just as we have seen before. I think Rossi has the best idea when he says that the market place can make the final

Re: [Vo]:A claim that NRL bought an E-Cat : Rossi says

2012-11-08 Thread Alan Fletcher
Andrea Rossi November 8th, 2012 at 12:30 PM Dear Marco: I appreciate wholeheartedly the enthusiasm of our supporters, but sometime I have the impression that the difficulties we are fighting against are strongly underevaluated, just like to make a LENR industrial apparatus should be a normal

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Esa Ruoho
When electricity is out city-wide, it becomes real convincing real quick. On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 8:06 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I would bet that a demonstration of a charger would not convince many about the reality of CF devices. So many would suggest ways that the

Re: [Vo]:Skynet Could be Carbon Based

2012-11-08 Thread Terry Blanton
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Heck ... The T-4 will need lots of current for tesseractic processing. Not sure how Ah-nald plans to get around the little problem of Judgment Day having past already (April 21, 2011) I like to think (and the sooner

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Terry Blanton
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 1:06 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I would bet that a demonstration of a charger would not convince many about the reality of CF devices. So many would suggest ways that the effect could be faked or scammed just as we have seen before. You don't actually

Re: [Vo]:A claim that NRL bought an E-Cat : Rossi says

2012-11-08 Thread David Roberson
It should be noted that in the self sustaining mode the input power is applied approximately 50 % of the time. This is consistent with my simulation and adds credence to his report. Also, the COP of 6 is very much in line with the model. Dave -Original Message- From: Alan Fletcher

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I am not sure that *everyone* can be convinced that the hypothetical CF device is real as you suggest. It would not have to convince everyone in the first round. We only need to set off a chain reaction where each generation triggers more reactions

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
I wrote: It would not have to convince everyone in the first round. We only need to set off a chain reaction where each generation triggers more reactions instead of quenching. I mean a reaction of people, not neutrons. Each replication motivates more than 1 other group to replicate, so the

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: And a recent political election would suggest the fact that some of those young whippersnappers know just how to accomplish this too. There is hope. Right. And I happen to have a line into some of them. Especially my daughter, who

RE: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Jones Beene
http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/109-fast-paced-progress There is nothing new on the site today other than calibration data, which looks good. From: Jed Rothwell We can hope that the Celani device, replicated by 5 or 10 labs, will convince hundreds more researchers than

Re: [Vo]:Water Bridge-Electro Gravity ?

2012-11-08 Thread Peter
Am 07.11.2012 04:38, schrieb Ron Kita: Greetings Vortex-L, A water bridge defying gravity: http://phys.org/news/2012-11-bridges-defy-gravity.html Ron Kita, Chiralex See here the castor oil bridge ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jj7c0oWoBI I think it is an electrodynamic effect and has

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Harry Veeder
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I am not sure that everyone can be convinced that the hypothetical CF device is real as you suggest. It would not have to convince everyone in the first round. We only need to

[Vo]:Wired: Photos of Film's Demise

2012-11-08 Thread Jed Rothwell
Here is an example of what I was talking about before: an obsolete industry that might have adapted the new technology but did not. I will grant, it is a little difficult to see what role Kodak might have played in digital photography. But they might have done something rather than simply standing

Re: [Vo]:Water Bridge-Electro Gravity ?

2012-11-08 Thread Nigel Dyer
On 08/11/2012 21:43, Peter wrote: Am 07.11.2012 04:38, schrieb Ron Kita: Greetings Vortex-L, A water bridge defying gravity: http://phys.org/news/2012-11-bridges-defy-gravity.html Ron Kita, Chiralex See here the castor oil bridge ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jj7c0oWoBI I think it is

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread James Bowery
Don't be confused by the advertising of rags like Discover, SciAm and Nature. They're fashion magazines. Their writers wouldn't be caught dead in the wrong kind of look. On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:20 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The uninformed public is getting the wrong

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Harry Veeder
Those young whippersnappers have a facebook page too: https://www.facebook.com/#!/MartinFleischmannMemorialProject Harry On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/109-fast-paced-progress There is nothing new on the

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Jouni Valkonen
Indeed Mark, the problem with cold fusion is that it is almost impossible to explain to skeptic convincingly. Sam Kean explained the problem with with cold fusion very well in his book Disappearing Spoon. Here is an excerpt from the book that I recommend to read. Jed does not like it, I know that

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Terry Blanton
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 9:04 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote: I also recommend the book as general good science book, although it is not anyway special. The Violinist's Thumb is even better.

Re: [Vo]:We should employ new methods of persuading the public

2012-11-08 Thread Thin Line
Jed said, So far, so far, cold fusion has avoided any opposition from vested interests because it has such a low profile. It is like the airplane from 1903 to 1908. No one takes it seriously, and most people are completely unaware that it exists. Jed, I think there is a distinguishing feature