Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Carlos Ribeiro wrote: >On 5/10/05, Christopher Lenz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>Putting together a whole library or application is actually >>discouraged by the properties and restrictions of the language: no >>importing of external modules, no proper namespacing, etc. You really >>have to

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Christopher Lenz wrote: > Am 03.05.2005 um 04:11 schrieb Ian Bicking: > >> The Javascript development community is young in other ways. Public >> repositories and basic open source project management practices are >> uncommon. We're still getting over a stage where everything is >> presented as

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On 5/10/05, Christopher Lenz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Personally, I think that the recipe/cookbook style still works best > for JavaScript. Unlike other so-called "scripting" languages like > Python or Ruby, which have long grown to be powerful general purpose > languages, JavaScript really is

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Am 03.05.2005 um 04:11 schrieb Ian Bicking: > The Javascript development community is young in other ways. Public > repositories and basic open source project management practices are > uncommon. We're still getting over a stage where everything is > presented as recipes instead of working code;

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: >>Why Plone? What's the point of using Plone if we simply want a mailing list? > > I was thinking a lot more would be involved than just a mailing list. > If all we want is a mailing list, those are easy to get. I was > thinking we'd have a Web site with FAQ's, documen

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On the topic of Javascript, I just thought I'd note the existance of WHAT-WG (http://whatwg.org/) the Web Application Spec (http://whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/), and the Web Form spec (http://whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/), which both deal with Javascript. The Web App spe

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: >>On a more serious tone, the idea itself has some merit. However, Plone >>carries a lot of overhead. I would rather prefer a lightweight >>framework for such 'plug ins'. I wondered a long time about doing some >>work with CherryPy along these lines, but I never had the

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

> On a more serious tone, the idea itself has some merit. However, Plone > carries a lot of overhead. I would rather prefer a lightweight > framework for such 'plug ins'. I wondered a long time about doing some > work with CherryPy along these lines, but I never had the time to make > it. I just ho

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

> Why Plone? What's the point of using Plone if we simply want a mailing list? I was thinking a lot more would be involved than just a mailing list. If all we want is a mailing list, those are easy to get. I was thinking we'd have a Web site with FAQ's, documentation, etc., and maybe even some c

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

* Steve Holden [2005-05-06 07:08]: > Except that it didn't, of course. My own belief is that Javascript, like > Perl, has suffered from the web-s 1990's "programming with a trowel" > metaphor, because a bunch of clueless dweebs dsicovered they could often > get 85% of a web job done by lifting

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On 5/6/05, Martijn Faassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Donovan Preston wrote: > > > > On May 5, 2005, at 12:43 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > > > >> Well, guys, I like SF.net. I understand that many of you don't. I'm > >> okay with that. I'm willing to bite the bullet and set things up, if >

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Donovan Preston wrote: > > On May 5, 2005, at 12:43 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > >> Well, guys, I like SF.net. I understand that many of you don't. I'm >> okay with that. I'm willing to bite the bullet and set things up, if >> we can all come to concensus about what should be done. Should

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

>> Have you used Venkman? Venkman is Mozilla's javascript debugger. It >> runs OTB with the Mozilla suite but you need to do some gymnastics to >> get it to work with Firefox. >> >> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/venkman/ >> > Sorry, no time for gymnastics :-) Actually, I said the same thing unti

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Mike Orr wrote: > Carlos Ribeiro wrote: > > >>Hi guys, >> >> >>Javascript seems to be everyone's little dirty secret. Everyone uses, >>most people don't like it. Some (like me) dislike it for no other >>reason than being another language that I have to use. Some others >>dislike it for being name

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

> Perhaps if we had better support in some browser -- and Firefox is the > perfect candidate here -- to improve the development experience. Have you used Venkman? Venkman is Mozilla's javascript debugger. It runs OTB with the Mozilla suite but you need to do some gymnastics to get it to work with

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Peter Hunt wrote: > Hello everyone, > > A long time ago (before the advent of IronPython), I wrote a small > Python module that compiled a python file to a JScript.NET > file and compiled it. Seeing as JScript and > JavaScript are very similar, I bet this could be very help

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Carlos Ribeiro wrote: >Hi guys, > > >Javascript seems to be everyone's little dirty secret. Everyone uses, >most people don't like it. Some (like me) dislike it for no other >reason than being another language that I have to use. Some others >dislike it for being named Javasomething (which is inde

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Hi guys, Javascript seems to be everyone's little dirty secret. Everyone uses, most people don't like it. Some (like me) dislike it for no other reason than being another language that I have to use. Some others dislike it for being named Javasomething (which is indeed something very strange). Ye

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On May 5, 2005, at 12:43 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:Well, guys, I like SF.net.  I understand that many of you don't.  I'm okay with that.  I'm willing to bite the bullet and set things up, if we can all come to concensus about what should be done.  Should I just setup a Plone instance somewhere?

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Well, guys, I like SF.net. I understand that many of you don't. I'm okay with that. I'm willing to bite the bullet and set things up, if we can all come to concensus about what should be done. Should I just setup a Plone instance somewhere? Best Regards, -jj On 5/5/05, Johnny deBris <[EMAIL P

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Martijn Faassen wrote: >I asked Infrae's resident Javascript guru (Guido Wesdorp), and he said >he didn't know of such a advanced javascript forum. He had some >discussions with other javascript hackers to set up such a thing, but >they haven't done anything yet. > > > Let me explain a bit:

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Donovan Preston wrote: [snip] > Before I reinvent the wheel of creating new mailing lists, I will > spend some time scouring weblogs and web framework project pages for > projects which are incorporating AJAX features (rails, etc). If I > find another community which is suitable, I'll suggest

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Lots of suggestions in this thread, but has a concensus been reached? For a webmail application I am working on I have been creating JS client widgets and server communication code. It would definitely been nice to use a library from some of this, but there are too many variations. Sometimes it's j

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Donovan Preston wrote: [snip] > Before I reinvent the wheel of creating new mailing lists, I will > spend some time scouring weblogs and web framework project pages for > projects which are incorporating AJAX features (rails, etc). If I > find another community which is suitable, I'll suggest

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

>From the Python point of view, it might be interesting to have a Javascript (isn't it properly called ECMAscript?) interpreter that functions like one of the Python HTML parsers. That is, every time some javascript action happens, there's the opportunity to interpose some Python code. Bill _

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On May 3, 2005, at 1:16 PM, Donovan Preston wrote: > > In case I don't find something which looks suitable, how many people > on this list would be interested? Any suggestions for what it should > be called, and what it should cover? I am generally interested in > sparking discussion of modern Jav

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

> > I wouldn't want to touch SF with a ten-foot pole, sorry. :-( (humor) I've touched SF.net without a ten-foot pole, and lived to tell about it!!! -jj -- I have decided to switch to Gmail, but messages to my Yahoo account will still get through. ___

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

> >> SF.net is not perfect, but it gets my vote. > > I wouldn't want to touch SF with a ten-foot pole, sorry. :-( > thats interesting, what problems do you see with sf.net (just curious?) ? ___ Web-SIG mailing list Web-SIG@python.org Web SIG: http://www.

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Donovan Preston wrote: > Before I reinvent the wheel of creating new mailing lists, I will > spend some time scouring weblogs and web framework project pages for > projects which are incorporating AJAX features (rails, etc). If I > find another community which is suitable, I'll suggest intere

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On May 3, 2005, at 11:01 AM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > On 5/3/05, Donovan Preston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I didn't say that I wanted to reinvent the wheel of javascript >> libraries. What I was proposing was creating a mailing list and web >> site focused on advanced javascript technique

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On 5/3/05, Donovan Preston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On May 3, 2005, at 10:29 AM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > > > On 5/3/05, Martijn Faassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Donovan Preston wrote: > >> [snip] > >> > >>> The shared brain power of a new list and web site which attracted >

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On May 3, 2005, at 10:29 AM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > On 5/3/05, Martijn Faassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Donovan Preston wrote: >> [snip] >> >>> The shared brain power of a new list and web site which attracted >>> users from communities other than the Python community could be >>> va

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On 5/3/05, Martijn Faassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Donovan Preston wrote: > [snip] > > The shared brain power of a new list and web site which attracted > > users from communities other than the Python community could be > > valuable, as well. At the same time, we could subtly enlighten people

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > I actually read the Dynamic HTML book and have a lot of good ideas on > how to make a good JavaScript library. I was just hoping I wouldn't > have to ;) I'm hoping Kupu meets my needs. JavaScript's not a bad > language. It's just very misunderstood, very abused, and

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Donovan Preston wrote: [snip] > The shared brain power of a new list and web site which attracted > users from communities other than the Python community could be > valuable, as well. At the same time, we could subtly enlighten people > to the joys of Python just by exposing them to it. Sou

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Robert, I am with you. Ian mentioned wanting the javascript to be agnostic about the back end (ie work for servers in any python framework and even ones in other languages). I think the same should be true for the front end. The server should not be producing special output for a javascript

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Ian Bicking wrote: > Donovan Preston wrote: > > I think there is no substitute for experience. Personally I have > > found that using abstractions which try to shield you from browser > > unpleasantness merely obscure the real source of the error or > > incompatibility which inevitably happen

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

I actually read the Dynamic HTML book and have a lot of good ideas on how to make a good JavaScript library. I was just hoping I wouldn't have to ;) I'm hoping Kupu meets my needs. JavaScript's not a bad language. It's just very misunderstood, very abused, and a bit undeveloped. It's really th

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Donovan Preston wrote: > I think there is no substitute for experience. Personally I have > found that using abstractions which try to shield you from browser > unpleasantness merely obscure the real source of the error or > incompatibility which inevitably happens anyway. I don't think you

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On May 2, 2005, at 5:47 PM, Peter Hunt wrote:Hello everyone, A long time ago (before the advent of IronPython), I wrote a small Python module that compiled a python file to a JScript.NET file and compiled it. Seeing as JScript and _javascript_ are very similar, I bet this could be very helpful. Se

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On 5/2/05, James Y Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On May 2, 2005, at 8:47 PM, Peter Hunt wrote: > > I envision a world where we can write something like: > > > > > > And it will do a server-side RPC to the onButtonClick() method, which > > could do something like this: > > def onButtonCli

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On May 2, 2005, at 8:47 PM, Peter Hunt wrote: > I envision a world where we can write something like: > > > And it will do a server-side RPC to the onButtonClick() method, which > could do something like this: > def onButtonClick(ctx): >     ctx.document.writeln("Button clicked") > > ctx w

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Hello everyone, A long time ago (before the advent of IronPython), I wrote a small Python module that compiled a python file to a JScript.NET file and compiled it. Seeing as JScript and _javascript_ are very similar, I bet this could be very helpful. See http://subway.python-hosting.com/attachment

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Hello, I've been doing a lot of javascript stuff recently with http://www.pretendpaper.com/ So far javascript has been 90% of the time I have spent on the site. At the begining I was using dynapi for some javascript stuff. Which is quite an ok javascript library. However as the abstraction was

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

> Now I am beginning to find some time for my happy workflow hacking... > and things have changed a lot, it seems. I think it's about time for > it to happen. It may seem a little bit simplistic of my part, but I > truly believe that the programmer's nirvana can only be attained when > we manage to

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On May 2, 2005, at 2:29 PM, Carlos Ribeiro wrote: > On 5/2/05, Shannon -jj Behrens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> It sure would be nice to have a common JavaScript library that we >> could all share. People are wanting this for Aquarium, but I really >> don't want Aquarium to have its own JavaS

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On May 2, 2005, at 1:30 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > On 5/2/05, mike bayer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> what kind of features are you looking for in these javascript >> libraries ? >> > > The "Dynamic HTML" book from O'Reilly has the beginnings of what I'm > looking for. It is a compati

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On 5/2/05, Carlos Ribeiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 5/2/05, Shannon -jj Behrens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It sure would be nice to have a common JavaScript library that we > > could all share. People are wanting this for Aquarium, but I really > > don't want Aquarium to have its own Jav

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: >>I was meaning to look into Sarissa (http://sarissa.sourceforge.net/doc/) which >>was mentioned somewhere at some point fairly recently. It doesn't interact >>with specific server-side functionality, but we can whip that up quite >>easily, can't we? ;-) > > > Wouldn't

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On 5/2/05, Shannon -jj Behrens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It sure would be nice to have a common JavaScript library that we > could all share. People are wanting this for Aquarium, but I really > don't want Aquarium to have its own JavaScript library. It's too much > of a niche within a niche.

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On 5/2/05, mike bayer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > what kind of features are you looking for in these javascript libraries ? The "Dynamic HTML" book from O'Reilly has the beginnings of what I'm looking for. It is a compatibility layer so that things like layers, repositioning, etc. work cross-pla

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Ian Bicking wrote: > Incidentally, the Rails people felt pretty strongly that innerHTML was > the way to go, because DOM manipulation is hard to maintain, and > innerHTML is very consistent across browsers. I had problems with innerHTML in pages served as application/xhtml+xml -- it doesn't wor

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

mike bayer wrote: > what kind of features are you looking for in these javascript libraries ? > I see sarissa is just the XMLHttpRequest method tied to writing the guts > of DOM objects, and then some more elaborate DOM inspection methods that > seem less useful. > > it seems to me that the "serv

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

what kind of features are you looking for in these javascript libraries ? I see sarissa is just the XMLHttpRequest method tied to writing the guts of DOM objects, and then some more elaborate DOM inspection methods that seem less useful. it seems to me that the "server-neutral" javascript part o

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

> I was meaning to look into Sarissa (http://sarissa.sourceforge.net/doc/) which > was mentioned somewhere at some point fairly recently. It doesn't interact > with specific server-side functionality, but we can whip that up quite > easily, can't we? ;-) Wouldn't it be interesting if the web-sig c

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

On Monday 02 May 2005 20:24, Ian Bicking wrote: > Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > > Do you guys know of any other really solid JavaScript libraries? > > There's also LivePage, but I don't know that it's very well documented. > Ditto Rails' prototype. I strongly prefer Javascript that is > backend-

Re: [Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > It sure would be nice to have a common JavaScript library that we > could all share. People are wanting this for Aquarium, but I really > don't want Aquarium to have its own JavaScript library. It's too much > of a niche within a niche. Do you guys think it'd be poss

[Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

It sure would be nice to have a common JavaScript library that we could all share. People are wanting this for Aquarium, but I really don't want Aquarium to have its own JavaScript library. It's too much of a niche within a niche. Do you guys think it'd be possible to use the RoR one? I've ofte