TJW, Good questions, I'll do my best to answer them. First, you only mention the texts written about colloids. I think there were a great deal (if not more) written about silver salts, which is essentially ionic silver. As far as I know there was only one brand of silver medicine that was electrochemically produced (Electrocargol). The colloids were generally in the micron range and not really comparable with the colloids of today.
Even a cloudy or white electro-generated solution, will still have the major proportion as ions (or salt such as silver chloride). The portion remaining after every thing else has settled out will be mostly ions. This is the nature of the electrolysis process. With salt without salt, current limited or sludge maker, all these processes start with silver ions emanating from the cathode and end with silver ions plating the anode. For silver ions to plate the anode (the origin of sludge) there must be free silver ions in the solution. I have made many tests of not only my product, but also of others who send their CS to me for testing. Bob Berger has done many tests (AAS) as has Trem and no doubt Ken. I use an Ion Selective Electrode (ISE) which measures the ionic portion, and then dissolve any particulate portion, retest and compare. Ironically, even the testimonials linked to a high particulate colloid, developed recently, were almost entirely due to the use of normal high ionic CS. Now all of this does not address the point as to whether ionic or particulate (true colloid) CS is more effective than the other, and I make no pronouncements to that question, but some say that ionic CS cannot work, which, if what I have stated above is true must be nonsense. Regards Ivan. > -----Original Message----- > From: elixsil...@citlink.net [mailto:elixsil...@citlink.net] > Sent: Thursday, 29 August 2002 5:56 p.m. > To: *Silver-List* > Subject: Re: CS>buying cs instead of making it. > > > Ivan, > Why would you thind that all the colloidal science and > chemistry texts of > decades ago (dozens)spoke only of coloidal silver- never > ionic silver? > Also- it seems to me that most people I have known to make > their own > solution had been making cloudy to white sol which I > equated with low PPM > batches of larger grey colloids. I thought this to be the > norn, as I found > salt seems to cause this to be all one can make. How is it > you think most > testimonials in the past decade relate to ionic...better > yet how can one > know this? > TJW > Ivan Anderson writes: > > > Please find my comments interspersed :-) > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: elixsil...@citlink.net [mailto:elixsil...@citlink.net] > >> Sent: Sunday, 25 August 2002 3:56 p.m. > >> To: silver-list@eskimo.com > >> Subject: Re: CS>buying cs instead of making it. > >> > >> > >> I have been doing some reading on the silver websites > >> lately and I see > >> someone saying that ionic silver crosses the cell wall. Is > >> not that a > >> problem? I've always thought silver smothers anaerobically > >> metabolizing > >> organisms from the outside thereby harming no aerobically > >> metabolizing > >> organisms. If it crosses into the cell can it not then harm > >> it somehow? > > > > Silver acts upon pathogens in various ways. One, that you > refer to, is > > by disabling cellular wall transport proteins to the > extent that they > > can no longer transport, or allow admittance of, the molecules and > > ions the cell needs for life. This can only occur if the > silver binds > > to the proteins and thus it must be in the ionic form to do so. > > Indeed, it has been found that if the silver is removed from its > > association with these cell wall proteins (by introducing > a chemical > > with a higher affinity for silver ions), the pathogen can > recover. > > > > Silver ions have also been found inside the cells of > bacteria, bonded > > to cellular proteins and DNA/RNA, which would further > disrupt cellular > > processes. It is thought that silver gains cellular entrance by > > weakening the cell wall in the process previously described. > > > > Whether a pathogen is aerobic or anaerobic makes no > difference. There > > is however, some question about the relative > effectiveness of silver > > regarding gram negative (hard cell wall, negatively > charged) vs. gram > > positive (double membrane) bacteria. > > > > Silver ions do not seem to have a negative effect on > mammalian cells. > > > >> Also, in my early experiments of '98 I found vit.C/ascorbic > >> acid to work the > >> best as an electrolyte- virtually always bringing the ions > >> to colloidal > >> size-thus the yellow coloration shows itself. Making yellow > >> colloids is what > >> I learned from DR. Peter Reynolds and others. > > > > Well, this is one way of making large silver particles, until the > > ascorbic acid is used up. Then you will be generating silver ions. > > Here is a nice pictorial view of some of the process that may be > > occurring: > > http://www.educ.cc.keio.ac.jp/~ub06272/ICCGposter.ppt > > > > I do not > >> understand ionic. It > >> seems to me it is just another way of saying molecular, > >> which I equate with > >> bad. Who were the first one or two people to promote ionic > >> and where is > >> their research to be found. I want to be able to debunk it > >> properly or not > >> at all. Can anyone answer this. > > > > The definition of an ion is quite wide, it may be an atom > which has > > gained or lost an electron, and so has a net charge, or > similarly, a > > molecule which has a net charge. A silver ion is in the > former group, > > that is, and atom which has lost one or more electrons > and so has a > > net charge of + one, two or three. A positively charged > ion is called > > a cation (cat-ion), most metals or mineral form cations. > > Electrically generated CS is formed from a stream of + one cations > > (Ag+) which emanate from the anode. Thus, all such > "colloidal silver" > > has a high percentage of ions, and should more properly > be called a > > silver solution. Very few CS products have a large particulate > > percentage, of which a true colloid is formed. > > The colours of CS do relate to particle size (and light > extinction and > > plasmon production) and are due to the percentage of > particles that > > exist in it. There is also an unsubstantiated theory that > ions form > > co-ordinated groups at certain concentrations. > > > > The fact that ionic silver does produce good outcomes is without > > question, considering that most, if not all of the testimonials, > > written in the last decade or so, relate to CS with a high ionic > > percentage. > > > > > >> Johnny Silverseed author: > >> C/S ....@ntibiotic Superhero > > > > Regards > > Ivan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. 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