> Ken
Hi Ken,
You are right. The cloud has to be particles. But how do they form?
###Agglomeration [inertial collisions????] and crystalization out of
saturated solution. The solution is MORE saturated right near the electrodes.
It's not clear if the crystal or agglomerated particle has a full or
partial charge.
The ion has to grab an electron from somewhere, which will
eventually come from the cathode. But the cathode and anode current
must be equal, so some other process has to take place to equalize
the current in the series circuit.
### I imagine that an electron can be had from virtually nowhere. They're
not all too uncommon. Probably plenty of them hanging around in the air,
ey?? If left alone, a strong ionic CS will drop in conductivity and gain
in TE [from particles] over night.
When the ions arrive at the cathode, they can't all grab an electron
and jump onto the cathode. Hydrogen is produced at the cathode,
which requires electrons. So the ions have to wait their turn, and
they form an invisible cloud around the cathode.
(This is similar to the space charge of electrons around the cathode
in a vacuum tube, so all the old hams should ea
http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m46719.html
When the ions arrive, the high voltage gradient keeps them close to
the cathode, which means the ion cloud will be quite dense. This
increases the probability that the ions which have found an electron
will be close to other atoms, and Brownian motion will bring them
close enough so the Van der Walls force can start the agglomeration.
The dense cloud also means the particles will grow larger.
So the idea that a high current rips large particles off the anode
may be incorrect. The high current means a higher voltage across the
cell, which means a denser ion cloud at the cathode. The particles
are not produced at the anode, but come from the ion cloud around
the cathode.
## Sounds about right. And so, stirring disrupts that concentrated ion
zone making Brownian collisions less likely and less enegetic AND hydrates
the ions so they are further isolated from each other and less likely to
come together in big hunks later. [I have this mental picture of what
hydration is that may not be quite exact]
Ripping off chunks would be like electrosputtering..probably takes a lot
of voltage and current to do that. Maybe that's part of what a HVAC unit
with a suspended electrode does???
There is another strange LVDC phenomenon that can sometimes be seen if
the area is well lit and a round optical glass container magnifies the process.
That is
One electrode can have a whitish cloud streaming off toward the center and
the other electrode can have a golden cloud streaming toward the
center...but nothing in the center.
Ode [ken#1]
So we have been barking up the wrong tree, and I am the worst
offender. (See my 130VDC article at:)
http://www3.sympatico.ca/add.automation/misc/130vdc.htm
A high voltage is not needed to get appreciable conduction with
typical distilled water.
The initial conductance of distilled water is not constant with
applied voltage. It increases as applied voltage increases, which is
why everyone uses the highest voltage they can get without
destroying their current regulator.
With the ULV process, the initial voltage across the electrodes is
only 2V to 4V. This is an order of magnitude less than conventional
systems, but the initial current may still be 180uA. This is in the
same ballpark as I used to get with 27 Volts from 3 nines!
With the low voltage, the ion velocity is an order of magnitude
less, so the ions take longer to reach the cathode. This means more
time for ion production before we start running into problems with
the ion cloud forming at the cathode.
When the cloud starts to form, the lower voltage gradient means the
cloud density is much less than before. This means the ions that
have found an electron have less probability of interacting, so
fewer particles are produced. This means less silver is wasted as
the black residue when we wipe the rods.
Because the cloud is less dense, the particles that do form are
smaller, so they don't have as much tendency to fall to the bottom
and form a black smudge. And the sides of the glass stay clear
instead of turning black.
And the solution doesn't turn yellow and plate out. Stirring is not
needed to get high quality cs.
Here is a run I started this morning:
Mon May 12, 2003, 09:04:56 am 4.374V 180uA
Mon May 12, 2003, 12:05:01 pm 3.024V 240uA
Mon May 12, 2003, 12:44:32 pm 2.811V 250uA
Mon May 12, 2003, 01:15:55 pm 2.517V 263uA
I will let it go another couple of hours, but you can see the
voltage across the cell is quite low. When I stop the run, it will
be among the strongest cs I have ever made, and it will not turn
yellow and plate out.
Any comments?
Best Regards,
Mike Monett
--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org
To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html
List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@eskimo.com>
