Funny dispute ... "is AGI about mathematics or science" I would guess there are some approaches to AGI that are only minimally mathematical in their design concepts (though of course math could be used to explain their behavior)
Then there are some approaches, like Novamente, that mix mathematics with less rigorous ideas in an integrative design... And then there are more purely mathematical approaches -- I haven't seen any that are well enough fleshed and constitute pragmatic AGI designs... but I can't deny the possibility I wonder why some people think there is "one true path" to AGI ... I strongly suspect there are many... -- Ben On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 9:16 PM, J. Andrew Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Apr 6, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Richard Loosemore wrote: > > > > J. Andrew Rogers wrote: > > > > > The fact that the vast majority of AGI theory is pulled out of /dev/ass > notwithstanding, your above characterization would appear to reflect your > limitations which you have chosen to project onto the broader field of AGI > research. Just because most AI researchers are misguided fools and you do > not fully understand all the relevant theory does not imply that this is a > universal (even if it were). > > > > > > > Ad hominem. Shameful. > > > > > Ad hominem? Well, of sorts I suppose, but in this case it is the substance > of the argument so it is a reasonable device. I think I have met more AI > cranks with hare-brained pet obsessions with respect to the topic or > academics that are beating a horse that died thirty years ago than AI > researchers that are actually keeping current with the subject matter. > Pointing out the embarrassing foolishness of the vast number of those that > claim to be "AI researchers" and how it colors the credibility of the entire > field is germane to the discussion. > > As for you specifically, assertions like "Artificial Intelligence research > does not have a credible science behind it" in the absence of substantive > support (now or in the past) can only lead me to believe that you either are > ignorant of relevant literature (possible) or you do not understand all the > relevant literature and simply assume it is not important. As far as I > have ever been able to tell, theoretical psychology re-heats a very old idea > while essentially ignoring or dismissing out of hand more recent literature > that could provide considerable context when (re-)evaluating the notion. > This is a fine example of part of the problem we are talking about. > > > > > AGI *is* mathematics? > > > > > Yes, applied mathematics. Is there some other kind of non-computational > AI? The mathematical nature of the problem does not disappear when you wrap > it in fuzzy abstractions it just gets, well, fuzzy. At best the science can > inform your mathematical model, but in this case the relevant mathematics is > ahead of the science for most purposes and the relevant science is largely > working out the specific badly implemented wetware mapping to said > mathematics. > > > > > > I'm sorry, but if you can make a statement such as this, and if you are > already starting to reply to points of debate by resorting to ad hominems, > then it would be a waste of my time to engage. > > > > > Probably a waste of my time as well if you think this is primarily a > science problem in the absence of a discernible reason to characterize it as > such. > > > > > > I will just note that if this point of view is at all widespread - if > there really are large numbers of people who agree that "AGI is mathematics, > not science" - then this is a perfect illustration of just why no progress > is being made in the field. > > > > > Assertions do not manufacture fact. > > > J. Andrew Rogers > > ------------------------------------------- > singularity > Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/11983/=now > RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/11983/ > > Modify Your Subscription: > http://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms." -- Henry Miller ------------------------------------------- singularity Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/11983/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/11983/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=4007604&id_secret=98631122-712fa4 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
