I am not sure how many softies are still there...other than Luc Eric Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:23 AM, David Gallagher <davegsoftimagel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Isn't it obvious Autodesk is spending their resources working on a next > generation product, post Maya/Softimage/Max? > > Didn't the Softimage people get shifted onto some faux project within > Autodesk? > > Of course they can't announce anything about that because it would be > strategically stupid, and would undercut sales of existing products. > > > (Also agree with Adrian that you'll have to pry Softimage from my cold, dead > fingers.) > > Dave G > > On 7/25/2013 9:50 AM, Stefan Kubicek wrote: >> Doesn't prevent defense only make sense in games that have a defined end? >> >>> Am I the only one who thinks of the "prevent defense" when you look at what >>> Autodesk is doing with the entire Media & Entertainment line? >>> >>> For you non-Americans / non-American football fans. The prevent defense is >>> what some coaches use when they are in the lead and the game is near the >>> end. The idea is, maintain the lead and don't make any mistakes. It's an >>> extremely conservative, boring way to try to win a game. >>> >>> A lot of people would say the prevent defense prevents you from winning >>> because you don't try to do anything on offense except not screw up - you >>> don't try to score any more points, you just hold on to the ball and then >>> punt it back to the opposing team - and on defense you allow the opposition >>> to gain ground, hoping that if you give ground, they won't score more >>> points. Meanwhile the other team still wants to win, so they pull out all >>> the stops and try every innovative thing they can think of to score as many >>> points as possible as quickly as possible. >>> >>> I've seen a lot of games that ended badly for the team using the prevent >>> defense. >>> >>> Autodesk has the lead in the market & they just want to play prevent >>> defense. Meanwhile Fabric/Creation, Houdini, The Foundry, NewTek, etc., >>> etc., realize the game isn't over. >>> >>> -Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Graham Bell >>> <graham.b...@autodesk.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Fair dues Greg... >>>> >>>> Fyi, the 'boss' is Chris Bradshaw. He took over from Marc Petit and Marc >>>> and Frank report into him. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: >>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Greg Punchatz >>>> Sent: 25 July 2013 14:07 >>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>>> Subject: Re: Future of Naiad >>>> >>>> :( bad choice ... Graham how was that supposed to make any of us feel >>>> better.? >>>> >>>> It almost felt like salt in a wound... >>>> >>>> I really appreciate that you try to keep us informed, but if you really >>>> don't have anything concrete or encouraging to say it might be better to >>>> let it rest at this point.. I know you're only the messenger, but there >>>> are certain people with a higher pay grade that should be giving us the bad >>>> news... >>>> >>>> Marc Stevens got his job because of us and softimage. Now he is the man >>>> behind killing soft and he has left us for dead... From an outsider's >>>> position that's exactly what seems to be happening. >>>> >>>> Who is Marc and the Max guy's boss? >>>> I think I might have a few things to say to him. >>>> >>>> I gave Autodesk more than a fair shake after the purchase. But all of my >>>> fears have come true.. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:17 AM, Graham Bell <graham.b...@autodesk.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Yes I know, but the original context was around Max, and a post made on >>>> a Max site. >>>> > >>>> > I posted this just to add some additional info. >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com >>>> > [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Massimo >>>> > Galluzzo >>>> > Sent: 25 July 2013 10:56 >>>> > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>>> > Subject: Re: Future of Naiad >>>> > >>>> > Ok, so why no one speaks about Softimage? >>>> > Maya, Max, Maya Max, Maya, Max, Maya Max. >>>> > >>>> > Just tell us the product will end the development cycle and enter a >>>> bugfix phase untill it dies so we know already. >>>> > This is pathetic. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -----Messaggio originale----- >>>> > From: Graham Bell >>>> > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:29 AM >>>> > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>>> > Subject: RE: Future of Naiad >>>> > >>>> > Overnight, Frank Delise (used to head up Max, but now heads our Games >>>> > Solutions group, fyi, Marc Stevens heads up Film/TV), posted this to >>>> > the Max underground site >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Hi all, I wanted to add some color to some of the concerns here. >>>> > >>>> > Yes, it was unfortunate that some of our max customer demos got >>>> > canceled last minute. Siggraph was a bit different for us this year vs >>>> > previous years. As a corp company, unfortunately we can’t disclose the >>>> > roadmap of our products anytime we want like the good old days. Not by >>>> > choice, but by revenue accounting laws. Since our product ship dates >>>> > are not aligned with Siggraph, this causes us to have limited news to >>>> share about our products. >>>> > >>>> > This is why we have our own event, the Unfold event. This allows us to >>>> > share the roadmap that is aligned with ship dates. >>>> > >>>> > Then why did Maya show up with some cool stuff this year at Siggraph >>>> > user event and not max? It just so happens that the technology preview >>>> > for Maya was ready for Siggraph, whereas the 3ds max work that we are >>>> > doing is gearing up for a update soon and we will be discussing the >>>> > details of that in the near future.The timing wasn’t right for >>>> > Siggraph. Again not always in our control on what trade show they line >>>> up to. >>>> > >>>> > On the general direction of Maya vs Max, nothing has changed. Maya was >>>> > designed for entertainment customers whom need a platform to extend. >>>> > Max was designed for the democratization of content creation for all >>>> > markets. So Maya may be better for deep pipeline integration, Where >>>> > Max is good for out of the box artist toolset for a broader markets. >>>> > >>>> > It also means that the Maya team focuses all its energy on >>>> > entertainment features and the Max team divides its energy on a >>>> > variation of markets, from design viz, VFX, Games, etc.. So naturally, >>>> > if you are a VFX artist only, you may see more progress on the Maya >>>> > front than you do on Max depending on the releases. >>>> > >>>> > When I took over the product for the 2014 release, I made some >>>> > significant changes. I refocused a lot the energy on stability and >>>> > performance. I also put a significant focus on “small annoying >>>> > things”. This resulted in some significant performance and stability >>>> > improvements and cleaned up some workflows. >>>> > >>>> > Did you get fluids :), No, not yet.. But it was the right thing to do >>>> > for Max’s continued growth. Meanwhile, we still managed to get in some >>>> > impressive features. >>>> > >>>> > As a Maya user, you would have noticed the same thing for the past >>>> > couple of years where Maya was pretty dry in the new feature >>>> > department but had significant scalability and API enhancements. >>>> > Sometime it takes entire teams to make big shifts like that. So let >>>> > the Maya team enjoy some new fun features :). >>>> > >>>> > As for Max, we are hard at work on features that have been raised up >>>> > from our customers. Some will be for entertainment, games and some >>>> > will be for design viz. >>>> > >>>> > For the Niad\Bifrost concern, Bifrost is being developed as an engine >>>> > with Maya as the first customer. We aren’t disclosing many details at >>>> > the moment, but it’s being designed to be agnostic to any one specific >>>> tool. >>>> > >>>> > I hope that clarifies a few things for everyone. >>>> > Frank DeLise - >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com >>>> > [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Rob >>>> > Chapman >>>> > Sent: 25 July 2013 10:01 >>>> > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >>>> > Subject: Re: Future of Naiad >>>> > >>>> > this is a forum with Autodesk etiquette..? very broadly speaking.. :) >>>> > you and me as well as countless others were on here long before it was >>>> > AD who owned the server where this mailing list lived, and hopefully >>>> > many will still be on here when it changes hands yet again. its been >>>> > utter lackluster so far from its current owners including the >>>> > potential Naiad / bifrost debacle therefore fingers crossed from me >>>> > this earthquake happens sooner rather than later! >>>> > >>>> > On 25 July 2013 10:35, Jordi Bares >>>> > <jordiba...@gmail.com<mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> > Given we are in an Autodesk forum and given the basic etiquette I will >>>> > only say we are in a major tectonic shift and imho Autodesk need to >>>> > show some goods yesterday. >>>> > >>>> > Jordi Bares >>>> > jordiba...@gmail.com<mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com> >>>> > >>>> > On 25 Jul 2013, at 08:48, Eric Thivierge >>>> > <ethivie...@gmail.com<mailto:ethivie...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Hah, if you can call it a presence at all... >>>> > On Jul 24, 2013 9:20 PM, "Raffaele Fragapane" >>>> > <raffsxsil...@googlemail.com<mailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com>> wrote: >>>> > I'm not quite sure I can fault them for not having their own floor space. >>>> > They were present at some partners', but Siggraph having shifted crowd >>>> > and attitude a fair bit I'm not sure they would have got a ton of >>>> > mileage out of their own, not to mention their big news came out >>>> > months ago with the 2014 releases, and if they have nothing for this >>>> > quarter they can't basically show anything else. >>>> > I can see why a big user event and floor presence scattered at other >>>> > stands would have been a better use of money for them. >>>> > >>>> > On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Eric Thivierge >>>> > <ethivie...@gmail.com<mailto:ethivie...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Speculating from Siggraph not having attended the Autodesk user event >>>> > knowing they would have nothing of interest to show me, it's apparent >>>> > they will be discontinuing all DCCs and focusing their efforts selling >>>> > their new product Autodesk Blender. >>>> > >>>> > Frankly i find the absence of Autodesk at the Siggraph floor either >>>> > arrogant or just plain stupid. >>>> > >>>> > Very apparent from all the talks this year that no one is really >>>> > taking Maya seriously for effects work aside from some bits of naiad. >>>> > SideFx is taking charge in a big way and have some big stuff coming >>>> > not including Houdini Engine. >>>> > >>>> > Sincerely, >>>> > Your embedded Siggraph journalist >>>> > On Jul 24, 2013 8:03 PM, "Greg Punchatz" >>>> > <g...@janimation.com<mailto:g...@janimation.com>> wrote: >>>> > Ha! Good point on the flame .. I still maintain the emperor has no >>>> > clothes;) >>>> > >>>> > I am a complete believer in atomic software. I think it would allow >>>> > for greater innovation in each key area. Zbrush proved that to me. >>>> > >>>> > I am looking for someone to step up to the plate In the areas of >>>> > rigging and animation. I'm hoping the guys over at fabric engine might >>>> > do something for us in that regard. I know much higher frame rates are >>>> > possible at this point if all a program had to do was to spend it >>>> > cycles on those two areas, it is absolutely ridiculous that people >>>> > have to play blast there animations to view to see it at full frame >>>> > rate IMO. There is no app that focuses squarely on that subject right >>>> now. There are countless modeling, painting programs. >>>> > >>>> > For myself and and Janimation I want us to move away from the single >>>> > beast program mentality. I plan to keep soft the glue that keeps it >>>> > all together for now and the foreseeable near future.. >>>> > >>>> > Right now I'm really enjoying learning Mari, I bought that for home >>>> > because I really don't see any other competition in that area. Because >>>> > it squarely focused on 3-D paint, it got so many things right. >>>> > Granted it took till 2.0 before I thought it was good enough to jump >>>> > on board. Now that I'm there I could not be happier. >>>> > >>>> > Clairese looks very interesting to me, it almost seems too good to be >>>> true. >>>> > >>>> > Arnold keeps me happy when I can use it, as we have a limited license >>>> > pool for the time being. >>>> > >>>> > I love Nuke as well, but I don't know it well enough for my taste yet. >>>> > >>>> > Modo has me interested as well, curious how the foundry leverages its >>>> > render engine. I tried it once and found clunky, but did not give it >>>> > enough of a chance. >>>> > >>>> > I also want us to move to an Alembic pipeline ASAP ... That's the next >>>> > big thing that I need to get pushed thru at the office. >>>> > >>>> > I'm just a bit grumpy on where we sit, I just wish things would've >>>> > turned out differently. C'est la vie. >>>> > >>>> > Sent from someone using his thumbs , Siri, and a healthy dose of >>>> > dyslexia ... >>>> > >>>> > On Jul 24, 2013, at 8:50 PM, Raffaele Fragapane >>>> > <raffsxsil...@googlemail.com<mailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com>> wrote: >>>> > So they have a scarcely maintained aging PoS they are still managing >>>> > to sell for gazillions as a high prestige product, and have insofar >>>> > managed to distract the audience from the fact the emperor is >>>> > freeballing it, and you'd go to the board asking for the management >>>> > who's pulling that hat trick off to be replaced? :) They do feel >>>> > increasingly dysfunctional in their communication and user base >>>> > management, but so does nearly any large enough media oriented large >>>> > house these days. Only the Foundry seems to be closer in touch with >>>> > the top tiers of the VFX industry. >>>> > It's very possible AD is simply more Adobe than Alias/Soft, and we >>>> > just can't (nor should we be supposed to) be served by a company with >>>> > that kind of mentality. >>>> > >>>> > All that said, Foundry is doing better than ok and they seem to care a >>>> > lot for the VFX business at many levels, unlike AD as a larger entity >>>> > (which you have to remember is NOT Soft or Alias), and pipelines are >>>> > going atomic with OSS glue, so the days of Maya/Soft/MAX not being >>>> > required across the whole pipe are upon us already. >>>> > >>>> > When you think about it already entire chunks of the pipe in the top >>>> > end reflect that, and a lot of that is trickling down to the middle, >>>> > and will soon enough trickle further down again. >>>> > With Katana + PRMan + Alembic Surfacing and lighting is likely the >>>> > next bit breaking off the AD continent, much like modelling did >>>> > already with ZB + Topogun. >>>> > If Fabric manages to wedge in with splice and slowly abstract things >>>> > away from Maya and convert it from host to client of platform, that's >>>> > another big chunk going. >>>> > There is less every day in an A to B scenario I open Soft or Maya for >>>> > really. >>>> > >>>> > Whether that'll be viable for the small user, given the small user >>>> > needs the whole stretch of software for himself and doesn't get to >>>> > divide the expense across departments only needing parts of it like >>>> > the bigger pipes do, well, that remains to be seen. The monopoly feels >>>> > less and less like it's going to stay every day though. >>>> > If you're a small unit or work in a small shop, maybe it's time to >>>> > stop thinking like they want you to, that you NEED the all in one, and >>>> > start figuring out how you can re-engineer a staged process into your >>>> > needs and workflow. >>>> > I'm succeeding pretty well at home these days, better than I ever >>>> > expected to. Even as an individual I'm finding the big-arse DCC apps >>>> > are more and more expensive OGL and graph eval hosts than anything else. >>>> > This was simply impossible five years ago, We could barely do it at >>>> > the 300+ staff project scale, now... not so much. >>>> > >>>> > On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Greg Punchatz >>>> > <g...@janimation.com<mailto:g...@janimation.com>> wrote: >>>> > Frankly M&E AD needs new TOP down leadership.... >>>> > >>>> > It's so beyond broken that no matter how hard the people below them >>>> > try to show them the light they refuse to look. >>>> > >>>> > They still think Flame is still a valid product.. Single threaded >>>> > piece of poo IMO. I am so surprised they can still sell the product >>>> > at all, especially for the outrageous prices. There are just a lot of >>>> > people who have not realized yet that the emperor has no clothes. >>>> > >>>> > And Maya is the future of 3d ... A code base nearing or past its 15 >>>> > year mark... Really? >>>> > >>>> > Sorry but I am just not a happy AD customer. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Sent from my iPhone >>>> > >>>> > On Jul 24, 2013, at 7:19 PM, Steven Caron >>>> > <car...@gmail.com<mailto:car...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> > they, you, need a better PR department. >>>> > >>>> > it is simple, don't give us reason to speculate so wildly. >>>> > >>>> > *written with my thumbs >>>> > >>>> > On Jul 24, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Graham Bell >>>> > <graham.b...@autodesk.com<mailto:graham.b...@autodesk.com>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > I'm saying nothing more, though if anyone wants to pvt me, then feel >>>> free. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship >>>> > it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship >>>> > it and let them flee like the dogs they are! >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > <winmail.dat> > >
