Greg:

Here in Georgia we adopted NFPA 20, 2003 two months ago and we may very
well adopt 2007 later this year.  I'm trying to figure out the
application of the main relief valve.

(2007) 5.18.1.2* Pressure relief valves shall be used only where
specifically permitted by this standard.

Does the standard specifically allow the use of a main pressure relief
valve anywhere except for use with a diesel pump and/or in combination
with a variable speed drive?

Bobby


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg
McGahan
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 8:28 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: pump tricks

It is not allowed to eliminate pressure reducing valves on any pump. In
the
old days we did it but now we are required to provide PRV's anywhere the
fittings and sprinklers working pressure is less than the greatest
expected
pressure on the components (churn + static - elevation loss).

5.7.6.1 The net pump shutoff (churn) pressure plus the maximum static
suction pressure, adjusted for elevation, shall not exceed the pressure
for
which the system components are rated. 

5.7.6.2* Pressure relief valves and pressure regulating devices in the
fire
pump installation shall not be used as a means to meet the requirements
of
5.7.6.1.

Greg

Living Water Fire Protection, LLC
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
Fax: 850-937-1852


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bobby
McCullough
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 7:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: pump tricks

Tony:

I believe NFPA 20 2003 and 2007 limit the use of a main pressure relief
valve for use with a diesel pump and/or in combination with a variable
speed drive.  I don't believe the relief valve is allowed with an
electric pump just to chop off the high end of the pressure curve.

Bobby McCullough

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A.P.Silva
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 1:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: pump tricks

This is an old thread, but I'm working on two projects, a six storey and
9
storey with fire pumps and it got me thinking (not an easy feat). Most
times, the problem is not when you have a large flow through the
sprinklers
or hose stations. It is when the flow is small or at churn pressure.
When
the flow is large, the pressure has dropped down below 175 psi. When the
flow is small you don't need the extra pressure. So if you install a
pressure relief valve set at say 160 psi, you shouldn't need the XH
pipe,
fittings and pressure reducing valves. I might be wrong, but I'm
thinking
the pressure relief valve must be costing less than a pressure reducing
valve. Any thoughts?

Tony 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Todd
Williams
- work
Sent: February 7, 2007 7:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: pump tricks

I seem to be running into several situations lately where there is a 
very fine balancing act between meeting the 100 psi at the top outlet 
of the standpipe and not exceeding 175 psi at the base of the riser. 
(6 story hotels are a good example) Does anybody have any good ideas 
they'd care to share on making these work? I'd like to limit the use 
of extra-heavy pipe and fitting (especially larger sizes) and PRVs. I 
have several tricks up my sleeve, but I'm running out of sleeves.

Todd

Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
860-535-2080
www.fpdc.com 

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