Funny that this topic came up yesterday and that I responded to it and then the sensing line on my well pump clogged and hopefully only ther switch burned up and not the pump also. The line is 1/4" x 6" galvanized, steel pipe. Now I just have to wait for Home Depot to open and I'll be fine though a bit poorer and with a time spent on fixing something I wish hadn't broken. But as you said materials are a bit harder to obtain in your part of the world. Since you've mentioned NFPA 20 I suppose the discussion can be limited to fire pump sensing lines. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'd guess that finding proper fire pumps and skilled labor to install them ought to just as, or harder, than finding copper tube, soft or hard, and fittings. Since it takes just a few flakes of scale to clog the little hole to the pressure switch I'd be overly cautious. And what about maintenance? Is there someone that will be servicing strainers. I think Garth, the Forum's resident fitter, would be concientious and skillful enough to take care of strainers if contracted to maintain these steel lines, but he'd be an exception even in the United States. Just some thoughts. Oh yes. I doubt if the 20 committee would accept a proposal in any form to use steel in sensing lines but I'm not on it so I can only speculate. Certainly if you don't try it won't change.
On 7/15/07, Aydın ÖZKAYA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Let me put my arguments "against" the limitation, using other than brass, copper or st.st: - Except some parts of the world, copper piping in Water-based Ext. Systems is not used; but instead steel is the most commonly used one. So unless, you do not use copper in sprinkler piping, brass/copper/st.st. is not used in any part of the Water-based Ext. Systems; except Pressure-sensing lines. If course 2-3m of piping of any kind is not a big deal, but in practice it's a problem; such as material supply, expertise in installation, etc., because it is different than the rest of the system. As for copper for instance, I agree that "as material" it is less subject to inside corrosion, causes less residues. On the other hand, less durable against mechanical impacts, more problem causing if use of special fittings is missed, but use bending instead and finally, screw-soldering-screw transitions are problems. Almost same is valid for st.st. Although it is best as material, installation and fittings/welding requirements are even harder to meet. - Therefore, not in industrial applications, but in commercial applications, brass/copper/st.st. is a problem, "at least in this part of the world". Then, when you do it with galvanized or black steel, then an incompliance item i.a.w. NFPA 20 is created. - The point I want to arrive, can't we extend to code to accept steel piping as well, but with additional requirements to safeguard the reliability and to eliminate the problems you bring forth. Such as increasing the Press. Sensing Line/Chechk Valve sizes to 3/4", or installing a strainer? Do you think it would a meaningfull to make a proposal to NFPA 20 committe? Aydın -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Garth W. Warren Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 6:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Why brass, copper or stainless steel, in Pressure Sensing Lines? sorry, I thought we were talking sensing lines....but all of the pilot lines I have ever seen run in cooling towers have also been galvanized. And if any of my fire pump sensing lines are not full of water, I'm in big trouble! ;-) Garth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Greenman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 8:21 PM Subject: Re: Why brass, copper or stainless steel, in Pressure Sensing Lines? > Garth, > > Hopefully the sensing lines on your fire pumps are full of water as do > those on any hydraulic pilot lines you install. And those on your > pnematic pilot lines have compressed air which having been heated > during compression per Boyle's Law will then cool and cause the water > vapor prevalent in all air will condense and precipitate as water > droplets. > > On 7/14/07, Garth W. Warren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ron, > > fortunately there is never water running through our sensing lines so there > > is never a chance that such build-up could ever occur in sensing lines. > > > > Garth > > a fitter > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ron Greenman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 6:40 PM > > Subject: Re: Why brass, copper or stainless steel, in Pressure Sensing > > Lines? > > > > > > > Aydin, > > > > > > Sensing lines are always small diameter. Brass, copper & stainless > > > steel are not subject to corrosion beyond the thin protective layer of > > > oxidized material that is insignificant relative to the diameter of > > > the tubing. Galvanized steel, particularly when subject to a damp, > > > enclosed environment, exhibits all kinds of crazy organic and > > > inorganic reactions. Have you ever seen a piece of 1/2" water line so > > > full of scale that you'd be hard pressed to force a 12 gauge wire down > > > the little hole left in the center? Don't want sensing lines that look > > > like that. > > > > > > On 7/14/07, Aydın ÖZKAYA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > I wonder why, "brass, cooper or stainless steel" piping (but not > > galvanized > > > > steel for instance) is specified for pressure sensing line for Fire Pump > > > > Controls in NFPA 20 7-.5.2 & 9-5.2. > > > > > > > > What is the rationality behind the "brass, copper or stainless steel" > > > > limitation? > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance... > > > > > > > > Kind Rgds. > > > > > > > > Aydın ÖZKAYA > > > > KARİNA Design, Consultancy and Training Services Ltd.Co. > > > > www.karina.gen.tr > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > > to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Ron Greenman > > > at home.... > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > ---- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > at home.... > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
-- Ron Greenman at home....
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