Bobby,

Tell them to read the titles. There's no invisible ink on 13R that
says anything about anything except MULTI-FAMILY DWELLINGS UP TO FOUR
STORIES IN HEIGHT. It doesn't say the above plus "and where there's
stores on the ground floor," or "or higher if there's type I
construction on the floors that would make it higher," or any other
such nonsense.

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Bobby Gillett
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thank you for your responses I believe you settled our debate although now
>  they are asking me "... where are they getting you have to stay within one
>  standard?" (13 or 13R).
>
>  Thanks again.
>
>  Bobby Gillett
>  Project Manager
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  (731)-424-0130
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton
>  Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:17 AM
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: RE: 13R Classification
>
>  There is a proposal in the current ROP (13R-58, Log #37 - Committee
>  Action: Accept) that will hopefully give better direction with regard to
>  this (these) issue(s).   Capsule version of the material is to clarify
>  that if a building (such as a pedestal or podium type) is divided into
>  separate buildings as defined by the code, that 13R is applicable in the
>  R-group building and 13 would apply to the other.   This represents a
>  change from what we've been saying (myself, AFSA, here in this thread)
>  WRT to "mixed use" buildings requiring a 13 design unconditionally.
>  But the proposed language makes very clear that these provisions apply
>  to buildings that are no more than 4 stories above "grade plane" (also
>  as defined by the code), so if we're talking about a 5-story structure
>  (per code), the applicable standard is 13.   Period.
>
>  Steve Leyton
>  Protection Design & Consulting
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dewayne
>  Martinez
>  Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:53 AM
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: RE: 13R Classification
>
>  Could you consider this 2 separate areas if the building falls under the
>  "pedestal" design of section 508 (2003 IBC)?  I have an excerpt from the
>  2006 Building Safety Journal that may help.
>
>  "In addition to the basic requirement that the pedestal
>  building be of Type IA construction and separated from the
>  buildings above by a horizontal ceiling/floor/roof assembly
>  having a minimum 3-hour fire resistance rating, the following
>  limitations also apply.
>  * Per Section 508.2, Item 4, Exceptions, the use of the
>  pedestal building is restricted to any combination of the
>  following:
>  * S-2 enclosed parking garage;
>  * multiple Group A uses limited to those having assembly
>  rooms with occupant loads of less than 300 each;
>  * Group B uses;
>  * Group M uses; and
>  * entry lobbies, mechanical rooms, storage areas and
>  similar uses incidental to the operation of the building.
>  * Per Section 508.2, Item 3, the use of the buildings above
>  the pedestal building is restricted to any combination of
>  the following:
>  * Group R uses,
>  * multiple Group A uses limited to those having assembly
>  rooms with occupant loads of less than 300 each,
>  * Group B uses and
>  * Group M uses. "
>
>  Hope this helps.  Bobby, leave me email if you want the full article.
>  Thanks,
>  Dewayne Martinez, CET
>  Design Build Fire Protection
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom
>  Duross
>  Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 7:55 AM
>  To: [email protected]
>  Subject: RE: 13R Classification
>
>  Plus, it's mixed use. 13 throughout.
>  One building, one use, one standard, one design.
>
>  Tom
>  GRS
>
>  Hello Bobby,
>
>  I was taught if there is a 5th floor it is not 13R. The whole building
>  has to be 13.
>
>  Friday, April 18, 2008, 8:16:04 AM, you wrote:
>
>  > A question has been asked in our office and I would appreciate the
>  opinions
>  > of the forum as to the intent of 13R.
>
>  >  There is a 5 story building, bottom floor is mercantile and the top 4
>
>  > floors are residential. "NFPA13R Standard for the Installation of
>  Sprinkler
>  > Systems in Residential Occupancies up to and Including Four Stories in
>
>  > Height." The debate is; is the intent of the standard to be that
>  > anything over 4 stories cannot be classified as 13R or can the
>  > building in question be classified as 13R because there are 4 stories
>  > in height for residential occupancy?
>
>  >
>
>  > Thank you in advance.
>
>  >
>
>  > Bobby Gillett
>
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-- 
Ron Greenman
at home....
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