Ok. I'm falling off the fence and back to my original side. This is where this whole interchange shines. I always rely on you guys to have those thoughts that I miss.
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Ron Greenman <[email protected]> wrote: > The red faced one. I do though think all the commentary has applied > across all the flavors of 13. > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 6:47 PM, Thomas Watt <[email protected]> wrote: >> What colored bear said this was a 13D system? :) >> >> Go Magic!!! >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ron Greenman" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:35 PM >> Subject: Re: CPVC w/o water between riser and FDC >> >> >> That was 2007 but it's in 2002 also and also in 4.3.2. Also, in A.4.3 >> there are recommendations on hydro testing DRY systems. Remember that >> dry systems are not prohibited by 13D. They are just not acceptable at >> the moment due to listing restrictions. And now I'm considering >> reversing my opinion. Since BlazemMaster specifically states it is NOT >> to be used in dry systems does that also mean the dry section of FDCs? >> BlazeMaster is silent on the subject so must you take the dry system >> prohibition and apply it to any dry part of a BlazeMaster >> installation? The silence seems to suggest just that. I haven't >> completely changed camps so quickly but I'm sitting on the fence. I >> love public discussion. It allows you to think out loud and show the >> entire world how big a fool you can be. I have a photo (Photoshopped >> for sure) of a fox's head amid a sea of beagles. The caption reads, >> "When you are in deep trouble, say nothing and try to look >> inconspicuous." I think I'll take my own advice. >> >> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Thomas Watt <[email protected]> wrote: >>> assume, practical...are those definitions in the 2007 edition? I can't >>> find >>> them in 2002. >>> >>> I included the reference only to show the importance the manufacturer >>> places >>> on removal of air from the system. I assume it is not only the water >>> hammer >>> issue but the real possibility of distortion or failure(burn-through). >>> (A.6.3.6 NFPA 13 2002 ed.) >>> >>> I have found nothing quite as disconcerting as walking through a jobsite >>> on >>> a monday morning to find heads, escutcheons and burned off head adaptors >>> littering the floor. >>> Lightning struck roof, system 2 weeks from hydro. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ron Greenman" <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: CPVC w/o water between riser and FDC >>> >>> >>> Thomas, >>> >>> When applying water to the FDC we can assume we are doing so to a pipe >>> that has already been tested for integrity and not worrying about dry >>> fits, unconnected pieces, etc. as we would in a new system (property >>> damage), nor full of air as we experience in a new system (potential >>> explosive decompression and the resultant bodily injury). We can also >>> assume that we are adding water to supplement a flow that is already >>> occurring and therefore there are "holes" (discharging heads) already >>> in the pipe. Unless we unleash the damned hellish hounds of hundreds >>> of pounds of over-pressurization upon the system I doubt that we will >>> even have the mildest of water hammer. And as a side note we have >>> hooked this FDC up to the truck because the building is on fire and >>> already experiencing property damage. Now should the pipe run from the >>> FDC be as short as possible? Certainly the dry portion, and we can >>> limit an FDC dry run of 100 feet (or more, or less) by placing the FDC >>> check valve as close as practical to the FDC itself. But if placing it >>> at the riser is the most practical location (my ridiculous 100 foot >>> run excepted) then so be it. I wonder how much pressure I would have >>> to apply to a CPVC system with only one head flowing before I've >>> created a situation that would rupture piping and connections already >>> tested to 200 psi in a static state? I'd bet more than my fire engine >>> could generate. >>> >>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Thomas Watt <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> IMHO, no. >>>> >>>> The FDC check should be installed as close as possible to the FDC to >>>> eliminate the dry run. >>>> >>>> >From the Harvel install guide: >>>> "When pressure testing, the sprinkler system shall be slowly filled >>>> >>>> with water and the air bled from the highest and farthest sprinkler >>>> >>>> heads before pressure testing is applied. Air must be removed from >>>> >>>> piping systems (plastic or metal) to prevent it from being locked in >>>> >>>> the system when pressure is applied. Entrapped air can generate >>>> >>>> excessive surge pressures that can result in bodily injury and/or >>>> >>>> property damage, regardless of the piping materials used." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "R Richardson" <[email protected]> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 1:04 PM >>>> Subject: CPVC w/o water between riser and FDC >>>> >>>> >>>>> We are reviewing a proposal for a wet pipe sprinkler system using CPVC >>>>> pipe. However, there is a run of CPVC pipe between the FDC and the riser >>>>> that is dry, is this standard practice or acceptable? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Rich Richardson >>>>> Seattle Fire Department >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>>>> to:[email protected] >>>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: >>>> 2/2/2009 >>>> 7:51 AM >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ron Greenman >>> at home.... >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 >>> 7:51 AM >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Ron Greenman >> at home.... >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 >> 7:51 AM >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > at home.... > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
