The red faced one. I do though think all the commentary has applied across all the flavors of 13.
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 6:47 PM, Thomas Watt <[email protected]> wrote: > What colored bear said this was a 13D system? :) > > Go Magic!!! > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Greenman" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:35 PM > Subject: Re: CPVC w/o water between riser and FDC > > > That was 2007 but it's in 2002 also and also in 4.3.2. Also, in A.4.3 > there are recommendations on hydro testing DRY systems. Remember that > dry systems are not prohibited by 13D. They are just not acceptable at > the moment due to listing restrictions. And now I'm considering > reversing my opinion. Since BlazemMaster specifically states it is NOT > to be used in dry systems does that also mean the dry section of FDCs? > BlazeMaster is silent on the subject so must you take the dry system > prohibition and apply it to any dry part of a BlazeMaster > installation? The silence seems to suggest just that. I haven't > completely changed camps so quickly but I'm sitting on the fence. I > love public discussion. It allows you to think out loud and show the > entire world how big a fool you can be. I have a photo (Photoshopped > for sure) of a fox's head amid a sea of beagles. The caption reads, > "When you are in deep trouble, say nothing and try to look > inconspicuous." I think I'll take my own advice. > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Thomas Watt <[email protected]> wrote: >> assume, practical...are those definitions in the 2007 edition? I can't >> find >> them in 2002. >> >> I included the reference only to show the importance the manufacturer >> places >> on removal of air from the system. I assume it is not only the water >> hammer >> issue but the real possibility of distortion or failure(burn-through). >> (A.6.3.6 NFPA 13 2002 ed.) >> >> I have found nothing quite as disconcerting as walking through a jobsite >> on >> a monday morning to find heads, escutcheons and burned off head adaptors >> littering the floor. >> Lightning struck roof, system 2 weeks from hydro. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ron Greenman" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:26 PM >> Subject: Re: CPVC w/o water between riser and FDC >> >> >> Thomas, >> >> When applying water to the FDC we can assume we are doing so to a pipe >> that has already been tested for integrity and not worrying about dry >> fits, unconnected pieces, etc. as we would in a new system (property >> damage), nor full of air as we experience in a new system (potential >> explosive decompression and the resultant bodily injury). We can also >> assume that we are adding water to supplement a flow that is already >> occurring and therefore there are "holes" (discharging heads) already >> in the pipe. Unless we unleash the damned hellish hounds of hundreds >> of pounds of over-pressurization upon the system I doubt that we will >> even have the mildest of water hammer. And as a side note we have >> hooked this FDC up to the truck because the building is on fire and >> already experiencing property damage. Now should the pipe run from the >> FDC be as short as possible? Certainly the dry portion, and we can >> limit an FDC dry run of 100 feet (or more, or less) by placing the FDC >> check valve as close as practical to the FDC itself. But if placing it >> at the riser is the most practical location (my ridiculous 100 foot >> run excepted) then so be it. I wonder how much pressure I would have >> to apply to a CPVC system with only one head flowing before I've >> created a situation that would rupture piping and connections already >> tested to 200 psi in a static state? I'd bet more than my fire engine >> could generate. >> >> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Thomas Watt <[email protected]> wrote: >>> IMHO, no. >>> >>> The FDC check should be installed as close as possible to the FDC to >>> eliminate the dry run. >>> >>> >From the Harvel install guide: >>> "When pressure testing, the sprinkler system shall be slowly filled >>> >>> with water and the air bled from the highest and farthest sprinkler >>> >>> heads before pressure testing is applied. Air must be removed from >>> >>> piping systems (plastic or metal) to prevent it from being locked in >>> >>> the system when pressure is applied. Entrapped air can generate >>> >>> excessive surge pressures that can result in bodily injury and/or >>> >>> property damage, regardless of the piping materials used." >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "R Richardson" <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 1:04 PM >>> Subject: CPVC w/o water between riser and FDC >>> >>> >>>> We are reviewing a proposal for a wet pipe sprinkler system using CPVC >>>> pipe. However, there is a run of CPVC pipe between the FDC and the riser >>>> that is dry, is this standard practice or acceptable? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Rich Richardson >>>> Seattle Fire Department >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>>> to:[email protected] >>>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: >>> 2/2/2009 >>> 7:51 AM >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Ron Greenman >> at home.... >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 >> 7:51 AM >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > at home.... > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 > 7:51 AM > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
