Ron: Many people say that de-caf has all the flavor of regular coffee.
In fairness to the AHJ in question - just in case he sees this thread - there isn't a whole lot of benchmark data to go on. This is a performance based design, which means that we only have proprietary data to use for substantiation. This particular fire official is a multi-discipline PE and my dealings with him so far have been articulate and on point, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Steve -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 8:00 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Seismic Protection He'll know better based on his personal seismic modeling, wind direction at the time of the conversation, the color of pants he usually wears and of course the chicken bones. And always remember that a single sprinkler head off the plumbing positioned over the stove is equivalent to a property protection system in an SFD because most fires occur in the kitchen. And of course you need an attic system in a life safety system to protect the fire fighters that got up on the roof of a super lightweight type V. Have I been having head against the wall conversations with the unwashed lately? On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 7:36 AM, Steve Leyton<[email protected]> wrote: > A much better explanation; I would also add that overseas seismic > engineering practices are leaking into the US A&E community. The > Japanese have been putting buildings on isolators for several years and > we are currently working on a project designed by a Japanese/American JV > that will consist of a 3-story museum, over a basement, all sitting on > dampers that in turn sit within a giant concrete tub that is sitting on > grade. The degree of isolation is hard to fathom - something like 85% > of seismic forces are absorbed by the isolation system. The trick on > this one is how are the structural engineer and I goin to convince an > AHJ in the San Francisco Bay Area that the building doesn't require > radical seismic bracing? > > Steve Leyton > Protection Design & Consulting > San Diego, CA > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > ParsleyConsulting > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:23 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Seismic Protection > > What Craig said. > > There's information in ASCE7 and the IBC that will help you determine > whether or not your project is required to follow the rules for seismic > protection, which is considerably more extensive than just bracing. > > And there are no more seismic zones, it's now based on information > regarding the position of the site relative to faults or seismic > activity areas, and there is important data from the USGS (available > free on their website) necessary to determine those values. > > In short, what you're looking to determine is the "Seismic Design > Category", which is designated as A through F. > > In category A and B there are no requirements for seismic protection of > sprinkler systems. > > In category C the protection requirements are based on complying with > the information in the '02 edition of NFPA-13 > > In category D and E you must follow the requirements of ASCE7 with > respect to horizontal force and pipe displacement, which can be achieved > > by following the guidelines in the '07 edition of NFPA-13. > > In category F you may as well buy some kind of rubber isolators because > you're floating on mud. Well, maybe not quite, but the civil and > structural engineers for the project are already going to be well aware > of the conditions and will most likely give you some excellent guidance > on what to do. > > Chapters 11 and 13 of ASCE7-05, and section 1613 of the '06 IBC contain > somewhat identical information on how to determine the seismic design > category. > -- > PARSLEY CONSULTING > Ken Wagoner, SET > 760.745.6181 voice > 760.745.0537 fax > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> e-mail > www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com> website > IMPORTANT NOTICE: This correspondence is not a Formal Interpretation > issued pursuant to NFPA Regulations. Any opinion expressed is the > personal opinion of the author and does not necessarily represent the > official position of the NFPA or its Technical Committees. In addition, > this correspondence is neither intended, nor should it be relied upon, > to provide professional consultation or services. > > > Phil Nawrocki wrote: >> We are in Phoenix, seismic zone #1. >> >> Regards, >> Phillip H. Nawrocki >> Design Manager >> National Fire Sprinkler, Inc. >> 1544 W. Grant St. >> Phoenix, AZ 85007-3314 >> (602) 712-1180 Phone Ext #33 >> (602) 712-1260 Fax >> [email protected] >> Fire Sprinklers Save Lives! >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jay > White >> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 6:24 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Seismic Protection >> >> Are you in a seismic zone? >> >> >> Jay White >> Estimator/Design Manager >> Dynamic Fire Protection >> 1807 Hwy. 25 South >> Starkville, MS 39759 >> Phone: 662-324-1550 >> Fax: 662-324-1545 >> Cell: 662-312-2426 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Phil >> Nawrocki >> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 8:07 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Seismic Protection >> >> Good Morning. We would like to know what determines when seismic >> protection is required in buildings. We know NFPA #13 tells us how to >> install the protection, but not when it is required. Thank you. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Phillip H. Nawrocki >> Design Manager >> National Fire Sprinkler, Inc. >> 1544 W. Grant St. >> Phoenix, AZ 85007-3314 >> (602) 712-1180 Phone Ext #33 >> (602) 712-1260 Fax >> [email protected] >> Fire Sprinklers Save Lives! >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: > [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4167 (20090618) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman at home.... _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
