Apparently the access panels suggest you need access. I don't understand why in such a shallow space. Where I have needed to make the combustible concealed space compliant I've just had the contractor fill it with insulation and make it exempt.
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Thom McMahon<[email protected]> wrote: > CC sprinklers are not "Required" they are specific application sprinklers, > and IF you use them you must follow their rules. You can use SSP/SSU > sprinklers. CC were created for spaces like this and from everything I've > seen outperform SSP/SSU in this application. > > Thom McMahon, SET > Firetech, Inc. > 2560 Copper Ridge Dr > P.O. Box 882136 > Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 > Tel: 970-879-7952 > Fax: 970-879-7926 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 12:33 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Church platform > > The 3K option is not viable because of the water. I know the space has to be > protected if they don't use FR lumber. I was looking for hints in case > anyone has done this in the past and srtumbled upon a design that has worked > well. The clear space from the concrete floor to the bottom of joists is > about 1'-9". I assume CC sprinklers will be required > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: <[email protected]> > > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 14:11:05 > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: Church platform > > > Depending on the size of the platform,and the overall size of the project,it > may > be more economical to protect below than not,because of the increased pipe > size due to the 3000 sf. design area above if left unprotected. > > Lamar Vaughn,SET > > > ---- Thom McMahon <[email protected]> wrote: >> Where would the "Wind borne debris" come from for an interior platform? >> Crawl spaces loading docks and platforms all could collect wind borne >> debris, but I wouldn't think an interior platform would. >> >> Yes 11.2.3.1.4 does say when you need to use the 3000 SF design area >> Adjacent to these areas, but it does not say that the interior platform > is >> anything other than a concealed combustible space. >> >> Thom McMahon, SET >> Firetech, Inc. >> 2560 Copper Ridge Dr >> P.O. Box 882136 >> Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 >> Tel: 970-879-7952 >> Fax: 970-879-7926 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cliff >> Whitfield >> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 11:18 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Church platform >> >> Thom, >> >> I think the platform is intentionally separated with a comma just for that >> purpose. If you look over in 11.2.3.1.4 "Restrictions" (3) specifically >> addresses both 8.15.1.2 & 8.15.6. I think it includes interior platforms. >> Not sure why they gave it a separate heading and just didn't include it > with >> the concealed space items. >> >> In reply to an earlier response, I don't think the presence of electrical >> wiring constitutes a need for sprinklers in a space like this but the > access >> panels/doors certainly would. >> >> Cliff >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom > McMahon >> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 11:56 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Church platform >> >> 8.15.1.1 Concealed Spaces Requiring Sprinkler Protection. >> All concealed spaces enclosed wholly or partly by exposed combustible >> construction shall be protected by sprinklers except in concealed spaces >> where sprinklers are not required to be installed by 8.15.1.2.1 through >> 8.15.1.2.16 and 8.15.6. >> >> I love where the std can be used to Yeah and Nay at the same time. >> >> So where can we use the "Platform" exclusion. I say that this is a > question >> for the committee, but my personal position is that we need more info. I >> believe that the "Platform generally referred to is an exterior loading >> platform. I believe that your relying on the comma between the "Exterior >> docks and platforms" Without the comma there is no confusion that the >> platform is also exterior. >> >> In your case it's an interior platform, so I would say 8.15.1.1 applies. >> What is the construction of this platform? If you build it of "Composite >> wood joist construction" You'd better sprinkler it, or you're looking at a >> 3000 SF design area above and below it. (If there is a below it.) If its >> wood construction of any type and not fire rated, how is it not a > concealed >> combustible space? >> >> 8.15.6.1 Unless the requirements of 8.15.6.2 are met, sprinklers shall be >> installed in spaces under all combustible ground floors, exterior docks, > and >> platforms. >> >> >> Thom McMahon, SET >> Firetech, Inc. >> 2560 Copper Ridge Dr >> P.O. Box 882136 >> Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 >> Tel: 970-879-7952 >> Fax: 970-879-7926 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George > Church >> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:59 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Church platform >> >> And a height at which it would be tempting to store tables below it, etc. > so >> protection would be reqd- although leaving 18" clear above the spkrs would >> be difficult to enforce past the design phase. >> >> Also, if the church is using real alcohol vrs grape juice, the prev #13 >> reference asks if flammable liquids are handled above the platform or > deck. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim > Johnston >> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:51 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Church platform >> >> I have done a couple of these both were under 30" off the floor, both had >> access panels, and both had lots of wiring under them. I didn't consider >> using 8.15.6, due to the wiring and access panels. >> >> Jim Johnston, P.E. >> Fire Protection Engineer >> Inland Fire Protection, Inc >> 1100 Ahtanum Road >> Yakima, WA 98903 >> Phone 509-248-4471 >> Fax 509-248-1180 >> [email protected] >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Cliff Whitfield [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:34 AM >> To: [email protected]; [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Church platform >> >> Todd, >> >> >> >> Would this not fall under 8.15.6 "Spaces under Ground Floors, Exterior >> Docks, and Platforms"? If it met all of the requirements I would think > you >> could exclude heads under the platform. Don't forget to apply the 3000 sf >> remote area if you elect to not sprinkler that area. >> >> >> >> Cliff Whitfield, SET >> >> President >> >> Fire Design, Inc. >> >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> www.fire-design.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, WSAFM _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
