Bobby, you're right but- That language is unenforceable, and inspectors aren't always competent to recognize a " a distinct hazard to life...
glc -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bobby McCullough Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:28 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: NFPA 25 and Scope I was doing monthly valve inspections on one facility. It ended about two months ago, when the depression came about. I've been including a page in the report with the text... The following is a partial list of weekly, monthly or quarterly inspections requirements which can be done by you as the owner or property manager. Please contact this office if you would like a proposal to provide these services. (Followed by the list) I would hope this helps inform the owner and limit my liability. Peter: one way to verify the system works as intended is as you say: write a new document. There is no way to touch it in the scope of NFPA 25. Or, leave it up to the AHJ. If there is a change of occupancy or some other indication of the need, the AHJ can require the system verification without a new document, and a contractor can provide this service, at a cost and liability much higher than a 25 inspection. Would an ITM contractor be within the scope of 25 by reporting an issue to an AHJ? Applying the text from 25 1.2 "In those cases where it is determined that an existing situation involves a distinct hazard to life or property, the authority having jurisdiction..." Possibly this could be written into State regulations for the ITM contractor to be required to notify the AHJ. Bobby McCullough Atlanta Sprinkler Inspection [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larrimer, Peter A (CEOSH) Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:17 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: NFPA 25 and Scope Actually, it weekly/monthly. Does anyone have a contract to go and inspect an electrically supervised or locked valves on a monthly basis? 13.3.2 Inspection. 13.3.2.1 All valves shall be inspected weekly. 13.3.2.1.1 Valves secured with locks or supervised in accordance with applicable NFPA standards shall be permitted to be inspected monthly. Possibly a big part of the problematic wording of NFPA 25 is that it originated from NFPA 13A which was a recommended practice that seemingly was written more for the system owner to ensure that his system worked. I assume that changing the shoulds to shalls and making it a code really puts the ITM folks in a bind because it wasn't written to limit liability of the maintainer, but to actually ensure that the system worked to provide property protection and life safety. Maybe it is time to write a new ITM standard that limits the liability of the ITM folks and only checks the operational status of the components, which is where we seem to be going in NFPA 25 and a then write a new document that would actually ensure that the system works as intended/required for the hazards involved using "qualified" competent contractors who not only are capable doing ITM but designing the system as well. We can't water down the requirements of NFPA 25 to eliminate ITM contractor liability and still meet the purpose of the standard as it is now written. 1.2* Purpose. The purpose of this document is to provide requirements that ensure a reasonable degree of protection for life and property from fire through minimum inspection, testing, and maintenance methods for water-based fire protection systems. In those cases where it is determined that an existing situation involves a distinct hazard to life or property, the authority having jurisdiction shall be permitted to require inspection, testing, and maintenance methods in excess of those required by the standard. We've had a fire where an Omega did not operate in a patient room. When a standard is written such that a contractor has to go out of his way to write a certified letter to let us know that the sprinkler that he is already required to inspect is actually a recalled head and should be addressed, then the standard is severely broken! PL -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Forest Wilson Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: NFPA 25 and Scope Regarding chain vs electrical tampers, inspection frequency should also be considered in the decision process. If I recall correctly, chain and lock valves must be inspected weekly per 25. Electric tampers are quarterly? Forest Wilson Project Manager Cherokee Fire Protection Co. 3195 Dayton Xenia Rd Ste 900 Dayton OH 45434 ph: 937-376-2333 fx: 614-455-4324 cell: 937-307-5647 . Visit our blog: www.cherokee-fire.blogspot.com NOTICE: The information contained in this email is intended to be solely for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is privileged or otherwise confidential. It is not intended for transmission to, or receipt by, anyone other than the named addressee (or a person authorized to deliver it to the named addressee). It should not be copied or forwarded to any unauthorized persons. 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