When I started at FM in the late 70s (as a toddler), their LH design 
was 0.10 over 3000 sqft. I think it was the late 80s when they came 
in to agreement with NFPA on the 1500 sqft area requirement.



At 10:23 AM 9/24/2009, you wrote:
>Mark,
>
>I had a project about 3 years ago with an large open office area, 
>and the FM guy wanted it calced as OH1 at 3,000 sf.  We could reduce 
>that to 1,500 sq. ft if they owner would split the area into two 
>spaces with walls that went to the deck.  When asked, this was one 
>of those "unwritten" standards.  didn't make much sense but this job 
>had lots of surprises like that.  We had sprinklers in process areas 
>at the deck, below equipment and in the high bays at the 15ft 
>elevation around certain pieces of equipment.  The equipment didn't 
>require vessel protection per NFPA.  We had more sprinklers per 
>cubic ft than on any job I'd ever seen.
>
>
>Craig L. Prahl, CET
>Fire Protection Specialist
>Mechanical Department
>CH2MHILL
>Lockwood Greene
>1500 International Drive
>PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC  29304-0491
>Direct - 864.599.4102
>Fax - 864.599.8439
>[email protected]
>http://www.ch2m.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [email protected] 
>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Sornsin
>Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:12 AM
>To: '[email protected]'
>Subject: RE: Inadequte Water
>
>Steve:
>
>Which UFL standard is requiring the 12 psi drop across the 
>backflow?  This is the second time I've heard of this but have not 
>yet had to deal with it (I don't know why not).
>
>I would LOVE to have a sit-down with the 'powers that be' 
>responsible for the UFC standards. E.g. where do they get the 3,000 
>sq.ft design area crap?  They say it's common HPR requirements in 
>the civilian world - except I worked for FM and we NEVER required 
>3,000 sq.ft. design areas for light or ordinary hazard-equivalent 
>occupancies. Maybe they just want to cover themselves in case a 
>combustible concealed space appears...
>
>Mark A. Sornsin, PE
>Fire Protection Engineer
>Ulteig Engineers, Inc.
>3350 38th Avenue S.
>Fargo, ND 58104-7079
>
>Direct:    701. 280.8591
>Fax:        701.280.8739
>Cell:        701.371.5759
>
>[email protected]
>www.ulteig.com
>
>Confidentiality Notice
>This message may contain privileged and confidential information. If 
>you think, for any reason, this message may have been addressed to 
>you in error, you   must not disseminate copy or take any action in 
>reliance on it, and we would ask you to notify me immediately by 
>return email to [email protected].
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [email protected] 
>[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Kowkabany
>Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:18 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: Inadequte Water
>
>I have the single most frustrating water issue I have ever had going 
>on right now Greg.  I am working on this small commercial entrance 
>facility at a military base in Georgia.  We are only sprinklering a 
>small 3,800 sqft cargo transfer building and getting the water from 
>the local utility rather than the base.
>
>We designed based on modeling data that was the only thing available 
>at design (there was no water within a mile then) and had no problem 
>making the small light hazard wet system work.
>
>Last week the underground was finally finished and we had our main 
>run up to the building and some nearby hydrants to test, so we 
>tested them - 55/25 at 750 gpm.  Bad water but still enough to make 
>an little light hazard wet system work right?
>
>Not once you take a 3,000 sqft design area, a 500 gpm hose allowance 
>due to the presence of 300 sqft of OH1 rooms, and a mandatory 12 psi 
>pressure across the BFP regardless of the fact that it is actually a 
>double-check - all mandatory per UFC codes.  After all that, you 
>need 850 gpm at 40 psi to make this system work and we are looking 
>at a pump and a tank!
>
>It's a very frustrating situation, so feel free to tell your AHJ he 
>is not alone.
>
>
>Steve Kowkabany, P.E.
>Fire Protection Engineer
>Neptune Fire Protection Engineering LLC
>616 Davis Street
>Neptune Beach, FL 32266
>904-652-4200 Phone
>904-212-0868 Fax
>
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Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, Connecticut
www.fpdc.com
860.535.2080  
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