Could riser control valves be placed on the 1st floor on each "riser" to aid in impairment requirements or are there way too many "risers"?
Garth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dewayne Martinez" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:47 AM Subject: RE: System subdivision > The section he was referring to in 13 states that "where individual > floor/zone control valves are not provided, a flanged joint or > mechanical coupling shall be used at the riser at each floor for > connections to piping serving floor areas in excess of 5000 SQ FT". > Since each floor was over 5000 SQ FT, our bird cage system could not be > used since we could not isolate the floors in case of system impairment. > > > Dewayne > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George > Church > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:37 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: System subdivision > > I'd ask em where in 13R it says you cannot do the individual risers, 13 > or 13R or 13D. Short of a high rise needing zoning by floor (I think, we > don't encounter many) we use them in 13R and d all the time, and also > did one in a > 13 hotel, 4-story over parking garage with rental spaces on 1st that > kicked it out of 13R (as did the garage but since it was subterranean, > there was a leg to stand on, removed by the rental space not incidental > to the residential nature of a hotel). > > glc > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dewayne > Martinez > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:21 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: System subdivision > > Thanks for all the replies. I got the same answer back from NFPA that > 13 applies to 13 not 13R. > Dewayne > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joe > Burtell > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:04 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: System subdivision > > Remind him this is a 13R system and per NFPA 13R 02' > > 6.7.2.1 For areas outside the dwelling unit, the following criteria > shall comply with specifications in NFPA 13, Standard for the > Installation of Sprinkler Systems, unless permitted by > 6.7.2.2 and 6.7.2.3: > (1) Design discharge > (2) Number of design sprinklers > (3) Sprinkler coverage > (4) Position of sprinklers > > These are the only 4 things we fall back to NFPA 13 for. There are a few > other little things like hangers and EQ bracing but system subdivision > is not one of them. We have done the bird cage design for years and no > one has ever said a word. > > > Best regards, > > Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS > Burtell Fire Protection > Phone: 406.652.7697 > Fax: 406.652.7743 > Cell: 406.861.4507 > Email: [email protected] > Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com > P please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dewayne > Martinez > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:40 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: System subdivision > > Yes this is a 13R birdcage system that the AHJ is telling us that it is > not allowed. He stated 8.15.21 as his basis for requiring horizontal > piping on each floor. Since this reference is out of 13 I didn't think > it applied to a 13R system. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cliff > Whitfield > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:03 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: System subdivision > > Dewayne, > > I didn't look up the section you mentioned but it sounds like you are > describing a "bird-cage" system. We used them a lot in 13R in cold > climates to eliminate the need to have any piping in the attic areas > that could be subject to freezing. You lose the ability to control or > zone the floors but it is sometimes the best approach for the building > owner to keep everything wet and avoid A/F which is more labor intensive > and costly to maintain. > > If this is not what you were asking, sorry. > > Cliff Whitfield, SET > > Fire Design, Inc. > 3784 Holly Ridge Trail > Marianna, FL 32448 > > Phone: 850-526-1886 > Fax: 850-526-1884 > Cell: 850-557-1886 > > www.fire-design.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dewayne > Martinez > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:58 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: System subdivision > > A) Can section NFPA 13 (07ed) 8.15.21 be applied to NFPA 13R sprinklered > building? > > B)Can a multiple floor building, not a high rise, be supplied with > sprinkler piping with the following arrangement and still comply with > section 8.15.21? > > 1st floor supplied by horizontal piping with upper floors supplied > by individual rises to sprinklers from 1st floor horizontal piping? > > Thanks, > > Dewayne Martinez > Design Build Fire Protection > New Berlin, WI > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
