It certainly would add to the cost of supervision. Sent from Jack Leadbetter's iPhone
On Nov 10, 2009, at 12:16 PM, "Garth W. Warren" <[email protected]> wrote: > Could riser control valves be placed on the 1st floor on each > "riser" to aid > in impairment requirements or are there way too many "risers"? > > Garth > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dewayne Martinez" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:47 AM > Subject: RE: System subdivision > > >> The section he was referring to in 13 states that "where individual >> floor/zone control valves are not provided, a flanged joint or >> mechanical coupling shall be used at the riser at each floor for >> connections to piping serving floor areas in excess of 5000 SQ FT". >> Since each floor was over 5000 SQ FT, our bird cage system could >> not be >> used since we could not isolate the floors in case of system >> impairment. >> >> >> Dewayne >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George >> Church >> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:37 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: System subdivision >> >> I'd ask em where in 13R it says you cannot do the individual >> risers, 13 >> or 13R or 13D. Short of a high rise needing zoning by floor (I >> think, we >> don't encounter many) we use them in 13R and d all the time, and also >> did one in a >> 13 hotel, 4-story over parking garage with rental spaces on 1st that >> kicked it out of 13R (as did the garage but since it was >> subterranean, >> there was a leg to stand on, removed by the rental space not >> incidental >> to the residential nature of a hotel). >> >> glc >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> Dewayne >> Martinez >> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 11:21 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: System subdivision >> >> Thanks for all the replies. I got the same answer back from NFPA >> that >> 13 applies to 13 not 13R. >> Dewayne >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joe >> Burtell >> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:04 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: System subdivision >> >> Remind him this is a 13R system and per NFPA 13R 02' >> >> 6.7.2.1 For areas outside the dwelling unit, the following criteria >> shall comply with specifications in NFPA 13, Standard for the >> Installation of Sprinkler Systems, unless permitted by >> 6.7.2.2 and 6.7.2.3: >> (1) Design discharge >> (2) Number of design sprinklers >> (3) Sprinkler coverage >> (4) Position of sprinklers >> >> These are the only 4 things we fall back to NFPA 13 for. There are >> a few >> other little things like hangers and EQ bracing but system >> subdivision >> is not one of them. We have done the bird cage design for years and >> no >> one has ever said a word. >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS >> Burtell Fire Protection >> Phone: 406.652.7697 >> Fax: 406.652.7743 >> Cell: 406.861.4507 >> Email: [email protected] >> Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com >> P please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> Dewayne >> Martinez >> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:40 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: System subdivision >> >> Yes this is a 13R birdcage system that the AHJ is telling us that >> it is >> not allowed. He stated 8.15.21 as his basis for requiring horizontal >> piping on each floor. Since this reference is out of 13 I didn't >> think >> it applied to a 13R system. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cliff >> Whitfield >> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:03 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: System subdivision >> >> Dewayne, >> >> I didn't look up the section you mentioned but it sounds like you are >> describing a "bird-cage" system. We used them a lot in 13R in cold >> climates to eliminate the need to have any piping in the attic areas >> that could be subject to freezing. You lose the ability to control >> or >> zone the floors but it is sometimes the best approach for the >> building >> owner to keep everything wet and avoid A/F which is more labor >> intensive >> and costly to maintain. >> >> If this is not what you were asking, sorry. >> >> Cliff Whitfield, SET >> >> Fire Design, Inc. >> 3784 Holly Ridge Trail >> Marianna, FL 32448 >> >> Phone: 850-526-1886 >> Fax: 850-526-1884 >> Cell: 850-557-1886 >> >> www.fire-design.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> Dewayne >> Martinez >> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 7:58 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: System subdivision >> >> A) Can section NFPA 13 (07ed) 8.15.21 be applied to NFPA 13R >> sprinklered >> building? >> >> B)Can a multiple floor building, not a high rise, be supplied with >> sprinkler piping with the following arrangement and still comply with >> section 8.15.21? >> >> 1st floor supplied by horizontal piping with upper floors supplied >> by individual rises to sprinklers from 1st floor horizontal piping? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dewayne Martinez >> Design Build Fire Protection >> New Berlin, WI >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- >> [email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:Sprinklerforum- > [email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
