LOL. You make me laugh G.C... Good way to start a day. Rod
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 5:35 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Pressure relief valves to flatten the pump curve My first >1m SF ESFR back in about 1989 dumped 1m gal a year into the retention pond. Not very green, in retrospect. I think system demand at pump discharge was 174.8 PSI, and FM said they needed 10 PSI buffer on the SUCTION SIDE to account for degradation of the supply external to the site, and they got it. Had an interesting standoff with the water co; we were ready to perform the pump acceptance test, all necessary parties on hand, and as we were setting up, the water co crew sitting across the street got out, shut the service to the building (yup, 1.15m SF worth a few million; one intersection of the conveyor system with switches, about 20' long, was $250k). Then they sat back down in the truck, windows up, AC on. They claimed they'd hear the water motor gong on the far side system if there was a fire........if any of you have walked the perimeter of a 1m SF building, and they're parked across the street, wouldn't matter if the windows were up or down, they aren't gonna hear a WMAG ringing. Besides- how long will a bell ring when the valve is shut? Water being non-compressible, the 175 PSI in the site loop would ring a bell for ??? seconds. We ran the test a week later, passed. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom Duross Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 5:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Pressure relief valves to flatten the pump curve I can really see that coming when you sit down and think about the water you use and waste. 1 bldg. for instance: Just the 19 flrs above and 6 below we probably use 12K gal per quarter. Then the pump test and I'm frugal and fast but you still end up using 6K. In 3 years when every pr hose valve has to be done, holy moly. They have grey water; roof drains are used for toilets. I asked, and posted here, but more science will have to be done to treat the yuck in the water for reuse. I don't really see the wfs recirculators being used too much around here but they're definitely a help. Looked at a pump yesterday with a relief dripping into the parking lot. It's from the time when they put them in to guard against overspeed. The pump churned 165 so they really didn't need it but I suggested they have the controller rep come in and see about installing an overspeed alarm. The easy was to just remove it but not really. I was surprised actually because the installing company were famous for piping them to suction but they must have had an engineer who looked at the shops and went to the site. Tom Apart from water departments not liking 250K gal going down the storm drain w/o compensation we have a new consciousness everywhere (no longer just in the West) about water conservation and so this stuff just looks bad. We are behind the curve and I think we'll be seeing a move to install break tanks, not full demand mind you, but sufficient for recirculating the test water on all commercial buildings with pumps. Increased upfront costs but figure 250K gals/year X building life of wasted water (that will be metered and paid for eventually) per every fire pump in the nation (presuming an average of 250K and regular testing per 25) or as an adjusted average for pump capacities and typical frequencies. Still a big bucket of water being lost. _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
