In the 2007 edition of 13 you might want to go back to 6.1 and 6.2. You might go for an informal interpretation. That's one of the benefits of AFSA membership. And somewhere, sometime I've read commentary (apart from on this list) about listing superseding the restrictions of the standard. IAs Chris if the engineer is using 'judgement" and his "special knowledge" to provide a greater degree of protection than the minimum standard AND he is convinced that this is in the client's best interest then he's right. If this is some ego contest for his benefit at the expense of the customer then he, like Jane, is an ignorant slut. If you suspect the latter is the case then you need to have the three of you sit down and have him explain why it's not. I presume your argument is that the minimum requirement has been deemed sufficient by the authors of the standard to provide a life safety enhancement equivalent to a minimum of ten extra minutes of escape time before flashover in the room of origin. If you want longer then you need a greater duration. If you want guaranteed suppression then you're shooting craps. If you want property protection you're in the wrong book. I'd try to get him to justify his criteria.
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 6:38 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Todd , > Are you saying the engineer has seen and has read these sections of 13R and > still doesn't understand the requirements ? If so , you may have to go over > his head to a higher authority or say a prayer and try to appease him as best > you can. > > Good Luck , > > Lamar Vaughn , SET > > > ---- Todd Williams <[email protected]> wrote: >> Discharge - 6.7.1.1.1, Coverage - 6.7.1.3.1. NFPA 13R (2002) >> >> >> >> At 08:23 AM 5/19/2010, you wrote: >> >I'd ask him to please, for your edification, cite the sections of >> >the NFPA Standard where he derived his specification data. >> > >> >I guess he was looking at sprinkler data sheets and when it didn't >> >say that the sprinkler is designed for 0.10 or whatever gpm/sq. ft >> >he thinks it falls into that category? >> > >> > >> >Craig L. Prahl, CET >> >Fire Protection Specialist >> >Mechanical Department >> >CH2MHILL >> >Lockwood Greene >> >1500 International Drive >> >Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >> >Direct - 864.599.4102 >> >Fax - 864.599.8439 >> >[email protected] >> >http://www.ch2m.com >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: [email protected] >> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams >> >Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:11 AM >> >To: [email protected] >> >Subject: 13R sprinklers >> > >> >I am working on a project with a rather ignorant engineer who will >> >not accept listed flow requirements for residential sprinklers. He is >> >insisting on using the 12 x 12 spacing, 13 gpm for multiple sprinkler >> >flow and 18 for single sprinkler flow (we have to calculate both). My >> >question may be one of semantics, but this is what the engineer is >> >hanging everything on. Both the above spacing and discharge >> >requirements are under sections entitled "Sprinklers That Have Not >> >Been Listed with Specific (Discharge/Coverage) Criteria". Since >> >virtually all of the residential sprinklers I am aware of have >> >specific design and coverage criteria, am I to assume based on the >> >wording that sprinklers with specific criteria cannot be used under >> >this section? If so, are there any sprinklers without specific >> >criteria currently on the market? >> > >> >Todd G. Williams, PE >> >Fire Protection Design/Consulting >> >Stonington, CT >> >860.535.2080 >> >www.fpdc.com >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> Todd G. Williams, PE >> Fire Protection Design/Consulting >> Stonington, CT >> 860.535.2080 >> www.fpdc.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: AFT WA 4184/AFL-CIO, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
